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Post by TCHOF on Dec 1, 2021 9:18:25 GMT -5
The main 2 pieces of those two SB's - Eli and Coughlin - were put in place before John took over (and if I can recall correctly, John didn't want Coughlin in the first place). John's decision making has been atrocious since he took over the leadership of this team. I actually can't think of one good decision that he has made. It was actually Accorsi that was vehemently against hiring Coughlin. But Wellington wanted him so that’s what happened. You're right ... my bad
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te88
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Post by te88 on Dec 1, 2021 9:34:53 GMT -5
It was actually Accorsi that was vehemently against hiring Coughlin. But Wellington wanted him so that’s what happened. You're right ... my bad We can both agree JOHN Mara had little to do with it lol
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 1, 2021 9:47:57 GMT -5
how can Judge survive when he is obviously part of the problem, he fires people around him as if everything is somebody else's fault and things still remain the same. So far Judge has shown nothing but strong talk..
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te88
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Post by te88 on Dec 1, 2021 10:17:04 GMT -5
how can Judge survive when he is obviously part of the problem, he fires people around him as if everything is somebody else's fault and things still remain the same. So far Judge has shown nothing but strong talk.. Nah he got this one right. But he deserves to be fired simply because he has no clue what is going on during the games.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 1, 2021 10:22:22 GMT -5
how can Judge survive when he is obviously part of the problem, he fires people around him as if everything is somebody else's fault and things still remain the same. So far Judge has shown nothing but strong talk.. To me it looks like he is firing Guys that were mandated hiring from the top all the X Cow boys are out of the building now, When Bill Parcells failed his first year and almost got canned he changed things up and said I'm gonna do it my way, think this is Judge doing the same thing.
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 1, 2021 10:24:28 GMT -5
how can Judge survive when he is obviously part of the problem, he fires people around him as if everything is somebody else's fault and things still remain the same. So far Judge has shown nothing but strong talk.. To me it looks like he is firing Guys that were mandated hiring from the top all the X Cow boys are out of the building now, When Bill Parcells failed his first year and almost got canned he changed things up and said I'm gonna do it my way, think this is Judge doing the same thing. I hope you're right.
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 1, 2021 10:37:18 GMT -5
To me it looks like he is firing Guys that were mandated hiring from the top all the X Cow boys are out of the building now, When Bill Parcells failed his first year and almost got canned he changed things up and said I'm gonna do it my way, think this is Judge doing the same thing. I hope you're right. it does have that appearance. Let's hope for a similar outcome,
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wtfjjk
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Post by wtfjjk on Dec 1, 2021 10:41:28 GMT -5
To me it looks like he is firing Guys that were mandated hiring from the top all the X Cow boys are out of the building now, When Bill Parcells failed his first year and almost got canned he changed things up and said I'm gonna do it my way, think this is Judge doing the same thing. I hope you're right. I hope Judge gets to pick his own QB too if he's not sold on Jones or else it's just more of the same.
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Post by FaceAcrossTheFloor on Dec 1, 2021 10:45:02 GMT -5
I think history paints us a pretty clear picture that says John Mara will ALWAYS hire from within or make a hire with direct Giant ties when it comes to GM When you look at how little he has had to actually do as far as hiring since his father it is actually quite shocking. It's really just Reese who came strongly recommended by Ernie and a bunch of terrible coaches. Ownership is inept but when you think about it why would it not be?
Mr. Mara is not and never has been a football guy He wasn't even involved with the team much until not all that long ago and the other owner is just some Hollywood mogul who inherited his stake to play Monopoly.
If we really want to be frank Giants ownership has never been great in the modern football era.
Wellington was wonderful for the league but was in no way a great owner. A great man but not a great owner of a franchise.
Honestly George Young and Ernie Accorsi have been the best people ever involved with this team as far as the upper brass.
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Post by mendy on Dec 1, 2021 10:50:24 GMT -5
how can Judge survive when he is obviously part of the problem, he fires people around him as if everything is somebody else's fault and things still remain the same. So far Judge has shown nothing but strong talk.. You know this how?
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Post by allnygin on Dec 1, 2021 11:18:26 GMT -5
yeah to many pieces of that puzzle fit.. there's no doubt about it as long as Mara continues to meddle in the business of those he hires this team will never get better. Sorry but to me it's not clear if it was Mara or Gettlemen that wanted Garrett . I get the fact this is hate Mara thread but to me there is to much speculation on the part of the fans and not enough fact . that's fine and I get it, but to me its clear as day. That's all. First keeping reese and getting rid of coughlin, then hireing dave gettlemen, the eli thing and now this.. it adds up . Its clear to me mara meddles with football affairs way to much.. and he shouldn't
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 1, 2021 11:26:23 GMT -5
To me it looks like he is firing Guys that were mandated hiring from the top all the X Cow boys are out of the building now, When Bill Parcells failed his first year and almost got canned he changed things up and said I'm gonna do it my way, think this is Judge doing the same thing. I hope you're right. He's coaching for his life right now, I would like to see the Giants with a modern type OC Kitchens has some of that in him, I wonder a lot about what the Giants would have been if Shurmrur was still coaching Jones and the offense, also got his guy for the defense Vic Fangio. We can't keep cycling through coaches, Think Mara needs to get out of way and get the front office and scouting department in order to give these guys a chance.
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Post by allnygin on Dec 1, 2021 11:42:09 GMT -5
He's coaching for his life right now, I would like to see the Giants with a modern type OC Kitchens has some of that in him, I wonder a lot about what the Giants would have been if Shurmrur was still coaching Jones and the offense, also got his guy for the defense Vic Fangio. We can't keep cycling through coaches, Think Mara needs to get out of way and get the front office and scouting department in order to give these guys a chance. I do think 2 years is to short and would like to see judge stick around even though he has messed up a bit this season. That said, the only way I see that happening is if Mara finds someone willing to work with judge and that has ramifications as it may limit the talent pool at GM, or they hire within and keep judge that way. The only way I see judge gone is if the new GM want's his own crew and if thats the case i'm all for it. Sick of this half in half out shit that's been going on since 2015. This guy needs to shake up how things are being done and the people in the FO.. bc yes, he may be comfortable, but its just not working and it hasn't for way to long. Every dog has his day, hopefully this offseason this guy finally gets it right.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 1, 2021 11:56:16 GMT -5
He's coaching for his life right now, I would like to see the Giants with a modern type OC Kitchens has some of that in him, I wonder a lot about what the Giants would have been if Shurmrur was still coaching Jones and the offense, also got his guy for the defense Vic Fangio. We can't keep cycling through coaches, Think Mara needs to get out of way and get the front office and scouting department in order to give these guys a chance. I do think 2 years is to short and would like to see judge stick around even though he has messed up a bit this season. That said, the only way I see that happening is if Mara finds someone willing to work with judge and that has ramifications as it may limit the talent pool at GM, or they hire within and keep judge that way. The only way I see judge gone is if the new GM want's his own crew and if thats the case i'm all for it. Sick of this half in half out shit that's been going on since 2015. This guy needs to shake up how things are being done and the people in the FO.. bc yes, he may be comfortable, but its just not working and it hasn't for way to long. Every dog has his day, hopefully this offseason this guy finally gets it right. Agree 100% if they hire from outside then what that GM wants goes and they should get 4 years to get what they need together. Biggest issue switching from Shurmur to Judge was now they are drafting in a completely different way for a new guy looking for a different skill set they from his their payers.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Dec 1, 2021 12:43:09 GMT -5
This story didn't actually say that. It only re-iterated what we already knew last year that was tension between Judge/Garrett. Garrett should’ve never returned, and that's on Judge. To your other point, I don't think it's unlikely Abrams is going to be the next GM. I think your right MC. The 2 guys forced on Judge are finally gone Garrett and Columbo. Keeping Abrams as GM for what to keep Judge and Jones ? Then why get rid of Getty ? Why not then let Getty pick the players for the top picks we need that he acquired for us ? Who the heck trust Abrahms picks ? He's been involved in the last 4-5 drafts that Getty gets blamed for ? I agree MC, Abrahms is not unlikely replacement. Hell everything is going to be the same people and players in charge. Why change ? For public relations ?
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 1, 2021 13:06:49 GMT -5
To me it looks like he is firing Guys that were mandated hiring from the top all the X Cow boys are out of the building now, When Bill Parcells failed his first year and almost got canned he changed things up and said I'm gonna do it my way, think this is Judge doing the same thing. I hope you're right. Yeah it seems he is taking out the trash The thing is,we would still have been in the same system had they moved on from Garrett,just a lot of Kitchens in game philosophy would have been used.. The upper meddling is damning though
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coughlinscorner
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Post by coughlinscorner on Dec 1, 2021 14:16:00 GMT -5
how can Judge survive when he is obviously part of the problem, he fires people around him as if everything is somebody else's fault and things still remain the same. So far Judge has shown nothing but strong talk.. To me it looks like he is firing Guys that were mandated hiring from the top all the X Cow boys are out of the building now, When Bill Parcells failed his first year and almost got canned he changed things up and said I'm gonna do it my way, think this is Judge doing the same thing. So his way was bringing back Garrett for year 2. That's on him not Mara. He has the largest staff in the NFL. If Garrett wasn't performing up to speed he had multiple options to replace him yet waited until this season was already in the crapper before doing so. Forgive me if I don't ANY faith in his decision making ability.
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Post by McCherry on Dec 1, 2021 14:21:02 GMT -5
This story didn't actually say that. It only re-iterated what we already knew last year that was tension between Judge/Garrett. Garrett should’ve never returned, and that's on Judge. To your other point, I don't think it's unlikely Abrams is going to be the next GM. I think your right MC. The 2 guys forced on Judge are finally gone Garrett and Columbo. Keeping Abrams as GM for what to keep Judge and Jones ? Then why get rid of Getty ? Why not then let Getty pick the players for the top picks we need that he acquired for us ? Who the heck trust Abrahms picks ? He's been involved in the last 4-5 drafts that Getty gets blamed for ? I agree MC, Abrahms is not unlikely replacement. Hell everything is going to be the same people and players in charge. Why change ? For public relations ? Exactly. Promoting Abrams only maintains the status quo. The 3 VP's should all go, but I doubt they fire anyone with Mara in their name. But Judge has been slow to act on his staff. Garrett was recommended to him (which was wrong) but I don't believe anyone would accept a job where assistants were forced on them.
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 1, 2021 14:32:51 GMT -5
All Abrams does are the finances. Why is he suddenly a GM? This is all guesswork
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Post by allnygin on Dec 1, 2021 14:37:35 GMT -5
All Abrams does are the finances. Why is he suddenly a GM? This is all guesswork How is this a stretch? 1.) this is john mara we're dealing with. 2.) he's been in press conferences with Gettlemen about FA and the draft in particualr this last offseason. 3.) is it that much of a stretch mara asked dave to help groom Abrams? He's been with the team forever, Mara likes familiarity. 4.) who isn't talking about this as a possibility? It makes sense. Lets just hope it doesn't happen everything about this team and its future is guesswork... is it not?
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Post by Blue Hulk on Dec 1, 2021 14:56:54 GMT -5
Abrams is good because he will defer to Judge on personnel choices and just be an accounting GM.
Now for my hot take. Bring Reese back to consult on scouting or Marc Ross. Those guys were good talent evaluators and before you say he wasn't just know you better back it up with evidence.
No reason for those guys not to be in front offices
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Post by allnygin on Dec 1, 2021 15:01:37 GMT -5
Abrams is good because he will defer to Judge on personnel choices and just be an accounting GM. Now for my hot take. Bring Reese back to consult on scouting or Marc Ross. Those guys were good talent evaluators and before you say he wasn't just know you better back it up with evidence. No reason for those guys not to be in front offices I have nothing against reese, and he did hit on some players, but to be fair he had some pretty bad drafts over the years. he's also had interviews with other teams over the years i believe... nobody picked him up?
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Post by Blue Hulk on Dec 1, 2021 15:07:48 GMT -5
To be fair, Reese was also not picking top 10 every year. Look at Reese when he picked in the top of the drafts. The team was doing well and didn't have half the draft capital and it's apparent now that Mara made Reese retain some guys too long. Like Kiwi and Eli ...lol
Reese knew how to pick OL and WR's and he only took a RB in the first round after a superbowl win...as it should be.
JPP...still in the league. Flowers...top 10 Guard....Pugh top 10 guard. Weston Richburg went to a superbowl before the injury bug hit. Odell is still a good WR down from an Elite one.
Reese was in the building when we drafted Eli. Times were better with Reese. Now look LMAO
I do want a new young GM, but I want Reese back.
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 1, 2021 15:10:02 GMT -5
Bringing Reese back would be just like trying to put poop back up your ass..
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Post by Kruunch on Dec 1, 2021 15:11:38 GMT -5
Abrams is good because he will defer to Judge on personnel choices and just be an accounting GM. Now for my hot take. Bring Reese back to consult on scouting or Marc Ross. Those guys were good talent evaluators and before you say he wasn't just know you better back it up with evidence. No reason for those guys not to be in front offices I have nothing against reese, and he did hit on some players, but to be fair he had some pretty bad drafts over the years. he's also had interviews with other teams over the years i believe... nobody picked him up? He had one interview. It was for the Raiders, and he turned it down. I don’t blame him, I would rather work for the Taliban than the Raiders.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Dec 1, 2021 15:11:56 GMT -5
And just to point out, Reese was asked to interview with the Raiders and declined and the job went to Mike Mayock. That was very telling.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Dec 1, 2021 15:12:26 GMT -5
Bringing Reese back would be just like trying to put poop back up your ass.. So we can count on you to consult? I didn't say hire him as GM, but I'd like him directing Player Personnel like he did under Accorsi. If Ernie was smart enough to hire him....
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 1, 2021 15:14:55 GMT -5
Bringing Reese back would be just like trying to put poop back up your ass.. So we can count on you to consult? I'd rather not No fan should be a consultant,just look at some of the nonsense posted here on a daily basis An outsider like Ozzy Newsome who was an all time great and set Baltimore up post retirement is the kind of guy we need here
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 1, 2021 15:15:46 GMT -5
All Abrams does are the finances. Why is he suddenly a GM? This is all guesswork How is this a stretch? 1.) this is john mara we're dealing with. 2.) he's been in press conferences with Gettlemen about FA and the draft in particualr this last offseason. 3.) is it that much of a stretch mara asked dave to help groom Abrams? He's been with the team forever, Mara likes familiarity. 4.) who isn't talking about this as a possibility? It makes sense. Lets just hope it doesn't happen everything about this team and its future is guesswork... is it not? Until it happens this is all speculation. Can debate about it but why stress over it? Step one is getting Gettleman out imo. Then we'll see. I would think Tisch would want the job going outside
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 1, 2021 15:41:20 GMT -5
To me it looks like he is firing Guys that were mandated hiring from the top all the X Cow boys are out of the building now, When Bill Parcells failed his first year and almost got canned he changed things up and said I'm gonna do it my way, think this is Judge doing the same thing. So his way was bringing back Garrett for year 2. That's on him not Mara. He has the largest staff in the NFL. If Garrett wasn't performing up to speed he had multiple options to replace him yet waited until this season was already in the crapper before doing so. Forgive me if I don't ANY faith in his decision making ability. Lot of talk he wanted him out last year and got over ruled. If true and they keep meddling this will never get better.
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