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Post by jaymas on Dec 2, 2021 12:13:46 GMT -5
I really don’t care who the starter is next year, we’re not going to the playoffs IMO and there are no good QB’s in next years draft. Build up the rest of the team, lose more games like we’re used to, and hopefully get a QB in 2023 with a decent draft pick. To me, next year will be all about building the O line for the future QB, not whoever is the QB at the time. Perfectly said. Fans oversimplify picking a new QB. Mostly because there’s no downside if they’re wrong. Getty’s fate is tied to SB and DJ. He’s not an idiot. He made moves people hated but turned out to be really smart. We’re just not nearly good enough after 4 years to justify working with him anymore. The next GM won’t pick the best QB available in that 30 day window because his fate will be tied to DJ’s replacement. He’ll pick the QB he’s CERTAIN will be better than DJ. He may not be right but he won’t replace DJ “because he had to”. That’s a stupid way of making decisions. The haters don’t get or consider that. It also allows for the chance (no matter how small many may find it) that Jones makes a worthy jump. Not saying it will happen, but this approach gives it the chance to happen, while still keeping an eye out for a replacement deemed better by the next GM. And then if the jump happens, viola, resources can be spent elsewhere.
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Post by repeatchamps on Dec 2, 2021 15:33:52 GMT -5
The Giants defense has gotten better but "playoff worthy", no. As for TT I would rather keep Jones, Taylor is a career back up . If you consider improving to the 26th worst as getting better than you’re spot on. This is a bit misleading. An additional note to consider here is that the Giants defense is 16th in scoring defense versus 9th in 2020 but 2021 is not over yet and they are only 0.8 points on average per game behind the #10 spot. That should be good enough to win more games than they have.
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Post by hogmollies on Dec 2, 2021 15:35:13 GMT -5
Absolutely playoff worthy. That Chiefs game in primetime was a masterclass, let;'s not forget the injury to Blake and throughout the defense as well. There are at least 3-4 games with a competent QB we win bc of how our defense played. Jones is a career backup too. The difference is Tyrod actually has some leadership ability and knows how to win games. You wanna talk about excuses, I could give a boatload to that Texans offense and yet still he is outplaying DJ. So the injury to Blake is a legit excuse yet injuries to our Offense are not acceptable and it's all Jones fault ,sorry no .Tyrod Taylor is done , again Jones is a better QB . So the defense can perform WITH people injured but Daniel can't? Your just making my arguments for me. You need to actually come with facts instead of just screaming out, "Daniel Jones is better than Tyrod". Facts don't back it up man.
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Post by repeatchamps on Dec 2, 2021 15:36:41 GMT -5
So the injury to Blake is a legit excuse yet injuries to our Offense are not acceptable and it's all Jones fault ,sorry no .Tyrod Taylor is done , again Jones is a better QB . So the defense can perform WITH people injured but Daniel can't? Your just making my arguments for me. You need to actually come with facts instead of just screaming out, "Daniel Jones is better than Tyrod". Facts don't back it up man. The Defensive depth is superior to the offensive depth and there really are only 2 key defensive injuries, Blake and Jabrill. The Giants offensive line is decimated and has had every starter hurt and out for significant time at one point of every week this season. Golladay, Toney, Shepard, Slayton, Barkley, Engram, Kaden and now Rudolph have all been out for significant amounts of games. You cannot just ignore that and dump it all on Jones. Not saying he is blameless but that is an apples and oranges comparison right now.
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Post by hogmollies on Dec 2, 2021 15:40:03 GMT -5
So the defense can perform WITH people injured but Daniel can't? Your just making my arguments for me. You need to actually come with facts instead of just screaming out, "Daniel Jones is better than Tyrod". Facts don't back it up man. The Defensive depth is superior to the offensive depth and there really are only 2 key defensive injuries Blake and Jabrill. You cannot just ignore that and dump it all on Jones. Not saying he is blameless but that is an apples and oranges comparison right now. Golladay, Engram and Saquon is ENOUGH to win with any average QB or at least score 28 pts in the league today. The line has played above average most recently, only struggling mainly at the beginning of the season. ENOUGH with the excuses for the most coddled QB in the last 10 years of any QB. Year 3 and he can't even throw for 300 yards or win an important game. YEAR 3.
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Post by repeatchamps on Dec 2, 2021 15:43:17 GMT -5
The Defensive depth is superior to the offensive depth and there really are only 2 key defensive injuries Blake and Jabrill. You cannot just ignore that and dump it all on Jones. Not saying he is blameless but that is an apples and oranges comparison right now. Golladay, Engram and Saquon is ENOUGH to win with any average QB or at least score 28 pts in the league today. The line has played above average most recently, only struggling mainly at the beginning of the season. ENOUGH with the excuses for the most coddled QB in the last 10 years of any QB. Year 3 and he can't even throw for 300 yards or win an important game. YEAR 3. With no effective nor healthy O-line play/players in front of him all season, sorry but Barkley, Golladay and Engram are nowhere near enough and none of those 3 have been healthy all season either anyway. If you think that O-line is above average your nuts. It's not even below average, it's hideous other than Thomas who has not even been healthy for a lot of this season anyway. Everyone has injuries so it is no excuse but the multitude of injuries on offense and the pathetic O-line play is what we are saddled with. Jones is not blameless of course but it's not anywhere close to being all on him.
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robl
Special Teams
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Post by robl on Dec 2, 2021 15:44:39 GMT -5
The Defensive depth is superior to the offensive depth and there really are only 2 key defensive injuries Blake and Jabrill. You cannot just ignore that and dump it all on Jones. Not saying he is blameless but that is an apples and oranges comparison right now. Golladay, Engram and Saquon is ENOUGH to win with any average QB or at least score 28 pts in the league today. The line has played above average most recently, only struggling mainly at the beginning of the season. ENOUGH with the excuses for the most coddled QB in the last 10 years of any QB. Year 3 and he can't even throw for 300 yards or win an important game. YEAR 3. Don’t disagree with criticism of Jones but it is preposterous to call our offensive line “above average “.
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mendy
Starter
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Post by mendy on Dec 2, 2021 15:52:00 GMT -5
The Defensive depth is superior to the offensive depth and there really are only 2 key defensive injuries Blake and Jabrill. You cannot just ignore that and dump it all on Jones. Not saying he is blameless but that is an apples and oranges comparison right now. Golladay, Engram and Saquon is ENOUGH to win with any average QB or at least score 28 pts in the league today. The line has played above average most recently, only struggling mainly at the beginning of the season. ENOUGH with the excuses for the most coddled QB in the last 10 years of any QB. Year 3 and he can't even throw for 300 yards or win an important game. YEAR 3. You in all honesty believe the NY Giants Offensive line has played above average this year , seriously?
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Post by SG88 on Dec 2, 2021 16:10:49 GMT -5
Golladay, Engram and Saquon is ENOUGH to win with any average QB or at least score 28 pts in the league today. The line has played above average most recently, only struggling mainly at the beginning of the season. ENOUGH with the excuses for the most coddled QB in the last 10 years of any QB. Year 3 and he can't even throw for 300 yards or win an important game. YEAR 3. Don’t disagree with criticism of Jones but it is preposterous to call our offensive line “above average “. I agree 100%. People really need to get this "either or" mindset out of their brain. Our oline is just as good as our QB. They're both subpar.
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Post by jb456 on Dec 2, 2021 16:47:12 GMT -5
What's the point of moving on from Jones if the Giants are going to bring in some old vet with no tread left on his tires? If its a young Qb with the chance to grow with the team, I get it. Because if you don't move on from Jones he would cost $20-30M per year. And journeyman vet would cost a small fraction of that. In 2022 we are very cap strapped. And that money could be spent on more useful positions like OL. Daniel Jones's Cap hit for 2022 is $8.4M but if the Giants cut him, they save a whopping $200k. It makes 0 sense to cut the guy unless they draft a QB in 2022, they can't trade Jones and the Giants want to avoid a QB controversy.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Dec 2, 2021 16:49:43 GMT -5
Golladay, Engram and Saquon is ENOUGH to win with any average QB or at least score 28 pts in the league today. The line has played above average most recently, only struggling mainly at the beginning of the season. ENOUGH with the excuses for the most coddled QB in the last 10 years of any QB. Year 3 and he can't even throw for 300 yards or win an important game. YEAR 3. You in all honesty believe the NY Giants Offensive line has played above average this year , seriously? Why are you (or anyone else) even answering this nonsense? LOL
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Post by jb456 on Dec 2, 2021 16:51:49 GMT -5
The Defensive depth is superior to the offensive depth and there really are only 2 key defensive injuries Blake and Jabrill. You cannot just ignore that and dump it all on Jones. Not saying he is blameless but that is an apples and oranges comparison right now. Golladay, Engram and Saquon is ENOUGH to win with any average QB or at least score 28 pts in the league today. The line has played above average most recently, only struggling mainly at the beginning of the season. ENOUGH with the excuses for the most coddled QB in the last 10 years of any QB. Year 3 and he can't even throw for 300 yards or win an important game. YEAR 3. My wife, who has watched 5 freaking football games in her entire life has a better understanding of the game than you. I award 0 points for your response and God have mercy on your soul. Mods - nobody could be this clueless about football and comment on a football message board. I call troll....
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Post by hogmollies on Dec 2, 2021 17:08:01 GMT -5
Let's stick to STATS then if people are going to again go to personal attacks instead of actually discussing football:
the Giants rank in the middle of the pack with 23 sacks allowed. The Giants allow the 11th-most pressures per gam.
That is WELL ENOUGH for any DECENT QUARTERBACK to be able to actually get 300 yards for once in his life.
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Post by hogmollies on Dec 2, 2021 17:08:23 GMT -5
Golladay, Engram and Saquon is ENOUGH to win with any average QB or at least score 28 pts in the league today. The line has played above average most recently, only struggling mainly at the beginning of the season. ENOUGH with the excuses for the most coddled QB in the last 10 years of any QB. Year 3 and he can't even throw for 300 yards or win an important game. YEAR 3. My wife, who has watched 5 freaking football games in her entire life has a better understanding of the game than you. I award 0 points for your response and God have mercy on your soul. Mods - nobody could be this clueless about football and comment on a football message board. I call troll.... personal attacks personal attacks Mods- let's stick to football since some of us clearly can't
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Post by SG88 on Dec 2, 2021 17:12:36 GMT -5
Lol, a thread about Fromm has gotten totally hijacked by another lame debate about Daniel Jones and the offensive line 😄
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 2, 2021 17:22:26 GMT -5
one more thing to discuss about a new QB, does the team have the balls to try to sign Deshaun Watson?, if so it would solve the problem completely, some team is going to sign him so why not us.... Nobody seems in a hurry to get him. very high dollar price tag aside form the nasty publicity..
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 2, 2021 17:26:43 GMT -5
Because if you don't move on from Jones he would cost $20-30M per year. And journeyman vet would cost a small fraction of that. In 2022 we are very cap strapped. And that money could be spent on more useful positions like OL. Daniel Jones's Cap hit for 2022 is $8.4M but if the Giants cut him, they save a whopping $200k. It makes 0 sense to cut the guy unless they draft a QB in 2022, they can't trade Jones and the Giants want to avoid a QB controversy. then we have to keep Jones and bring in a proven vet (if possible) and make Jones #2 QB until he learns or it becomes financially doable to get rid of him...
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 2, 2021 17:29:29 GMT -5
Daniel Jones's Cap hit for 2022 is $8.4M but if the Giants cut him, they save a whopping $200k. It makes 0 sense to cut the guy unless they draft a QB in 2022, they can't trade Jones and the Giants want to avoid a QB controversy. then we have to keep Jones and bring in a proven vet (if possible) and make Jones #2 QB until he learns or it becomes financially doable to get rid of him... We don't even have cap space for used footballs next year Jones is the guy sink or swim in 2022
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Post by hogmollies on Dec 2, 2021 17:50:38 GMT -5
then we have to keep Jones and bring in a proven vet (if possible) and make Jones #2 QB until he learns or it becomes financially doable to get rid of him... We don't even have cap space for used footballs next year Jones is the guy sink or swim in 2022 IF you're trying to sink to tank draft position then yes. If we're trying to win football games, Jones is definitely not the guy next year and everyone knows it.
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Post by jb456 on Dec 2, 2021 17:52:02 GMT -5
Daniel Jones's Cap hit for 2022 is $8.4M but if the Giants cut him, they save a whopping $200k. It makes 0 sense to cut the guy unless they draft a QB in 2022, they can't trade Jones and the Giants want to avoid a QB controversy. Jones cap hit in 2022 is all but guaranteed essentially (the Giants would actually eat $20,000 in dead cap) And I never said cut Jones. I've always contended that you do not exercise his 5th, keep him for 2022 and sign a journeyman vet for cheap in 2022 that can back him up, compete with him and either become our 2023 starter or back up/mentor to a kid we draft in 2023 (after Jones becomes a UFA in 2023). The $20-30M figure I mentioned above is if: 1. The Giants exercise his 2023 5th year option in May 2022. 2. The Giants extend him with a new contract. The Giants don't have to exercise the 5th year option if they don't think a better QB is in the 2022 draft. Point being, the Giants don't have to pay Jones until after 2022 if they want to keep him. GL already mentioned that the Giants don't even have any cap money anyway.
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Post by keyofgmen on Dec 2, 2021 18:07:37 GMT -5
Jake from State Fromm...
Insurance...
sorry...
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Post by SG88 on Dec 2, 2021 18:49:07 GMT -5
Jake from State Fromm... Insurance... sorry... That was actually pretty clever. Well done
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 2, 2021 18:52:32 GMT -5
Lol, a thread about Fromm has gotten totally hijacked by another lame debate about Daniel Jones and the offensive line 😄 surprised one about Fromm was started.
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Post by SG88 on Dec 2, 2021 18:59:52 GMT -5
Lol, a thread about Fromm has gotten totally hijacked by another lame debate about Daniel Jones and the offensive line 😄 surprised one about Fromm was started. Same
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 2, 2021 19:01:49 GMT -5
Jake from State Fromm... Insurance... sorry... 7/10
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Post by vinnie on Dec 2, 2021 19:10:59 GMT -5
If you consider improving to the 26th worst as getting better than you’re spot on. This is a bit misleading. An additional note to consider here is that the Giants defense is 16th in scoring defense versus 9th in 2020 but 2021 is not over yet and they are only 0.8 points on average per game behind the #10 spot. That should be good enough to win more games than they have. Oh for sure, the offense is the biggest problem but this defense is worse than what I believe some people give them for…like last week.
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3days
Starter
Posts: 4,024
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Post by 3days on Dec 2, 2021 19:37:47 GMT -5
Golladay, Engram and Saquon is ENOUGH to win with any average QB or at least score 28 pts in the league today. The line has played above average most recently, only struggling mainly at the beginning of the season. ENOUGH with the excuses for the most coddled QB in the last 10 years of any QB. Year 3 and he can't even throw for 300 yards or win an important game. YEAR 3. My wife, who has watched 5 freaking football games in her entire life has a better understanding of the game than you. I award 0 points for your response and God have mercy on your soul. Mods - nobody could be this clueless about football and comment on a football message board. I call troll.... I still say Alt, if I remember on the old boards it was a similar line for Eli
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Post by Nite on Dec 2, 2021 19:59:19 GMT -5
then we have to keep Jones and bring in a proven vet (if possible) and make Jones #2 QB until he learns or it becomes financially doable to get rid of him... We don't even have cap space for used footballs next year Jones is the guy sink or swim in 2022 I know a guy who knows a guy who (might) know another guy who can get you a GREAT deal on used footballs, as a bonus he knows another guy who deals in recycled qbs..
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