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Post by jb456 on Dec 15, 2021 17:00:49 GMT -5
I'm not of the opinion that the Giants have let many successful players go. Not to many teams would get the blessing from their front office to move a top 10 pick (that was slated to be their future LT) to play as a developmental guard. I actually think a majority of us wanted to see Flowers as a guard but as I mentioned before, how many teams would draft a player in the top 10 and then move him to guard and hope he develops in a few years? Pugh was a solid player but battled with injuries. If I recall correctly, Pugh struggled for a few years after he left the Giants as well. Zeitler was the consensus best player on the Oline (wasn't developed by the Giants) and was a pure cap casualty. To my point, Andrew's seems to be coming along fine, Gates was developing fine (until injury) and he was a later round pick. I wouldn't think you would see later round picks develop if a team has problems developing players at a position. To me, the biggest problems have are: Drafting poorly, poor free agent acquisitions and of course, injuries. Now, a good amount of these injuries are happening with players that were drafted with injury history and FA with injury history. This is a poorly run team with DG taking the most blame (he was here the longest) followed up by Judge, Graham and Jason Garrett (fired). DG had several interviews where he mentioned that he went out and tried to get the players that the coaches wanted. The Giants current coaches had a significant amount of input in all of the Draft picks and FA acquisitions for the last few years. This is why I don't understand why so many on this board are giving Judge a pass. Judge has a large responsibility for all of the players that were added for the last 2 years. How are those players working out? Yeah, I want me some more of that.... I agree. The original premise of this post was that its cringe worthy that the packers have a makeshift oline of players that should not be anywhere near as good as they are.. no continuity, no pedigree patchwork players and they are succeeding with Rodgers, he brings this up. Its crazy that after 10 years the giants can't even come close to the packers worst... This organization is a cluster **** from top to bottom but also peart - has been failed to this point Leumiex - was garabge one of the worst rated guards no reason to think he'd be any better this season Hernandez - has declined since his rookie year Yeah, 100% agree with all of this. I will also say that Hernandez could go on and become an average guard on another team. Some other teams can reduce the impact of average / slightly below average players with scheme. The problem the Giants currently have is that they have 1 starter on their current Oline. No coach on the planet could make this position group work with 1 good player and 4 below average to bad players.
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 15, 2021 17:13:05 GMT -5
when I think about Judge I see a guy who is in the wrong place at the wrong time, probably a good football guy but short on experience as a HC, and thats exactly what a team like the NY Giants don't need at this point in time..
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Post by kerryisdaman on Dec 15, 2021 17:27:32 GMT -5
when I think about Judge I see a guy who is in the wrong place at the wrong time, probably a good football guy but short on experience as a HC, and thats exactly what a team like the NY Giants don't need at this point in time.. Experience matters. We need to keep that in mind for the future. If we hire an experienced guys we have to be willing to live with him learning the job on the job.
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 15, 2021 17:35:51 GMT -5
And it's crazy those are the things that Judge said he would be and do different when he got here, the missing things that we hadn't had and he sure has not delivered at all!!! After 2 years coaching special teams and linebackers in college he was a special teams coach at New England for 8 years. At the ripe old age of 39 he came to the Giants organization as a raw, rookie HC. And, after all that 'experience', especially in evaluating college talent for an entire Pro team's myriad positions you guys think he should be held accountable for the draft in 2020 along with the scouts and DG? As with everything else he has to handle as a rookie HC, JJ has a lot of learning and experience to gain before I'm going to roast him too much about anything that's totally new to him. It's the price you pay when you hire a 39 year old first time HC. which is why he may very well still be HC next season, regardless of what all of us think/feel.
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Post by Zimonami on Dec 15, 2021 19:30:45 GMT -5
when I think about Judge I see a guy who is in the wrong place at the wrong time, probably a good football guy but short on experience as a HC, and thats exactly what a team like the NY Giants don't need at this point in time.. exactly right... we needed an experienced, winning HC. Who was available to fulfill that need 2 years ago? They bought Belichick's pitch on the potential of Judge and the FO made that move.... and, now if they believe that JJ is going to be an outstanding coach in the NFL in the future, that have to bear that time for learning experience. JJ never evaluated talent for a draft... never had to participate in selection of assistant coaches.... never had to coach them, and the players into a cohesive unit, and never had to manage a clock before taking this job. He was nothing more than a Special Teams coach. But, BB spent a lot of time one on one with the guy because he believed he had the tools to become an outstanding coach in the NFL. So, we either give him 3-4 years to get needed experience to chance having a really good coach in the future, or we let him go and get that experienced coach we all know we need.... and take the chance that he won't be the HOF coach like BB became after Clevelend gave up on him after 4 of 5 losing years.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Dec 15, 2021 19:34:46 GMT -5
And it's crazy those are the things that Judge said he would be and do different when he got here, the missing things that we hadn't had and he sure has not delivered at all!!! After 2 years coaching special teams and linebackers in college he was a special teams coach at New England for 8 years. At the ripe old age of 39 he came to the Giants organization as a raw, rookie HC. And, after all that 'experience', especially in evaluating college talent for an entire Pro team's myriad positions you guys think he should be held accountable for the draft in 2020 along with the scouts and DG? As with everything else he has to handle as a rookie HC, JJ has a lot of learning and experience to gain before I'm going to roast him too much about anything that's totally new to him. It's the price you pay when you hire a 39 year old first time HC. a bigger question would be why wasn't he promoted/moved up the ladder after 8 years as ST coach. I mean he speaks a good game and stuff and I'm sure if BB saw his smarts and intilec I would think he would've been someone that would've at least after that long of a time move up the ladder???
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 15, 2021 19:36:56 GMT -5
when I think about Judge I see a guy who is in the wrong place at the wrong time, probably a good football guy but short on experience as a HC, and thats exactly what a team like the NY Giants don't need at this point in time.. exactly right... we needed an experienced, winning HC. Who was available to fulfill that need 2 years ago? They bought Belichick's pitch on the potential of Judge and the FO made that move.... and, now if they believe that JJ is going to be an outstanding coach in the NFL in the future, that have to bear that time for learning experience. JJ never evaluated talent for a draft... never had to participate in selection of assistant coaches.... never had to coach them, and the players into a cohesive unit, and never had to manage a clock before taking this job. He was nothing more than a Special Teams coach. But, BB spent a lot of time one on one with the guy because he believed he had the tools to become an outstanding coach in the NFL. So, we either give him 3-4 years to get needed experience to chance having a really good coach in the future, or we let him go and get that experienced coach we all know we need.... and take the chance that he won't be the HOF coach like BB became after Clevelend gave up on him after 4 of 5 losing years. I always thought that Bill B got a raw deal from the Browns. They were playing ok his first few years. That last year, when the team announced the move to Balt, the team fell apart. During that season it almost felt like Bill was not happy about the move, which helped lead to his demise there.
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Post by TEM on Dec 15, 2021 19:47:52 GMT -5
It is because the Packers like NE , and Pittsburgh do not play square peg in round hole football. The talent on every team is there. It is utilization of it that lacks.
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Post by DandyDon on Dec 15, 2021 19:58:47 GMT -5
It is because the Packers like NE , and Pittsburgh do not play square peg in round hole football. The talent on every team is there. It is utilization of it that lacks. Yeah. Designing a team around the players you have instead of the players you want is important. It's something the Giants never do.
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Post by Zimonami on Dec 15, 2021 19:58:49 GMT -5
After 2 years coaching special teams and linebackers in college he was a special teams coach at New England for 8 years. At the ripe old age of 39 he came to the Giants organization as a raw, rookie HC. And, after all that 'experience', especially in evaluating college talent for an entire Pro team's myriad positions you guys think he should be held accountable for the draft in 2020 along with the scouts and DG? As with everything else he has to handle as a rookie HC, JJ has a lot of learning and experience to gain before I'm going to roast him too much about anything that's totally new to him. It's the price you pay when you hire a 39 year old first time HC. a bigger question would be why wasn't he promoted/moved up the ladder after 8 years as ST coach. I mean he speaks a good game and stuff and I'm sure if BB saw his smarts and intilec I would think he would've been someone that would've at least after that long of a time move up the ladder??? Who knows... he had several positions with BB at special teams and WR, and was only 30 when he went to the Pats. Maybe Bill was happy with the higher up coaches he had. Who knows? But, there's no denying that he personally contacted Mara and gave a rousing endorsement for the guys potential, and at 38 at the time that's all that he had... potential, and very little real experience. But, he came to a team in a Covid season with no preseason games, a host of new faces, including a fairly new, raw QB, a whole new coaching staff of men who had never worked together before, and a host of personell changes and unjuries this year. If you want to judge him this season based on an Oline that has 1 starter and 4 practice squad players, be my guest. You can continue to complain about him all you want, but you are spitting in the wind because he ain't going no place for at least another season, and maybe even beyond. You can't change the owner, the coach, or the QB, so I'm sorry the team sucks for you, but I have been around too long to do nothing but complain about what is and what can't be changed. Living with that anger shortens a happy life.
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Post by TEM on Dec 15, 2021 20:03:33 GMT -5
It is because the Packers like NE , and Pittsburgh do not play square peg in round hole football. The talent on every team is there. It is utilization of it that lacks. Yeah. Designing a team around the players you have instead of the players you want is important. It's something the Giants never do. A prime example: draft a press corner . Make him play off the line. He gets burned . The fans say he sucks. The fact is that is not his skill set. Square peg in round hole.
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Post by TheAussieGiant on Dec 15, 2021 20:08:58 GMT -5
In short he talks about how he likes how some of the players on their current roster may have been "outcasts" or after thoughts by other teams that didn't really want them and that over the years they've had many that produced very well in that situation with that type of chip on their sholder. He then narrows it out specifically and calls out each of their current lineman blocking for him by first and last name and then says alot of these guys were undrafted, drafted late or not guys who were thought of that would be contributers to their football team, but that they've been playing really well... and it makes me cringe as a giants fan.. how does that line look a million times better than ours? Is it coaching, is it Rodgers can just help out what should be a below average oline bc he's so good. Its not secret to us we've had players here on the o-lines here go on and have better careers elsewhere once they left, flowers, pugh, look at zietler with the ravens. WHY CAN"T THIS TEAM figure out the o-line.. it really makes you wonder wtf is going on here. Two things, Rodgers makes his lineman look much better than they would on most teams. He has such a good ability to manipulate the pocket getting the rushers to redirect into his OL. Its also different when you have an Aaron Rodgers you are blocking for. Knowing that as long as you do your job this play could be going for a touchdown. Rather than in a team like the Giants, where if you do your job, doesn't seem to matter because someone else didn't do theirs. Guys defnitely play to a different level when they think there is a legitamite chance their team could be going to a superbowl.
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Post by cruzsoldier on Dec 15, 2021 20:16:31 GMT -5
In short he talks about how he likes how some of the players on their current roster may have been "outcasts" or after thoughts by other teams that didn't really want them and that over the years they've had many that produced very well in that situation with that type of chip on their sholder. He then narrows it out specifically and calls out each of their current lineman blocking for him by first and last name and then says alot of these guys were undrafted, drafted late or not guys who were thought of that would be contributers to their football team, but that they've been playing really well... and it makes me cringe as a giants fan.. how does that line look a million times better than ours? Is it coaching, is it Rodgers can just help out what should be a below average oline bc he's so good. Its not secret to us we've had players here on the o-lines here go on and have better careers elsewhere once they left, flowers, pugh, look at zietler with the ravens. WHY CAN"T THIS TEAM figure out the o-line.. it really makes you wonder wtf is going on here. This is a combination of things 1st is Talent evaluation identifying that they can actually play(GM) 2.Coaching (Head Coach & his staff) 3.Leadership (Team Camptain and Team leadership)
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Post by DandyDon on Dec 15, 2021 21:44:10 GMT -5
Yeah. Designing a team around the players you have instead of the players you want is important. It's something the Giants never do. A prime example: draft a press corner . Make him play off the line. He gets burned . The fans say he sucks. The fact is that is not his skill set. Square peg in round hole. Yeah, that's what BB does that keeps the pats on top. But then again, BB can pretty much do what he wants, their owners don't second guess him. We have the exact opposite problem, our owners flailing around, reacting to pissed off fans and still convinced they know what they are doing.
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Post by dvision on Dec 16, 2021 3:01:06 GMT -5
One of those 2 teams that let him go felt good enough about him to make a trade to bring him back... he was the highest graded lineman on Miami last season and while that's not saying much they traded him to clear up Cap space... I trying to but I don't see it. You are saying that Flowers was a cap casualty in Miami after he was cut by the Giants and then cut by Washington the next year? How much was the guy making? I've got better things to do than lie to you... he was on a 3 year $30 million dollar deal. He played well at guard his first go round in Washington. His cap hit was $10 Mil in 21 and increases in 22... Washington could afford him... Miami couldn't... hence the trade
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Post by jb456 on Dec 16, 2021 11:06:48 GMT -5
I trying to but I don't see it. You are saying that Flowers was a cap casualty in Miami after he was cut by the Giants and then cut by Washington the next year? How much was the guy making? I've got better things to do than lie to you... he was on a 3 year $30 million dollar deal. He played well at guard his first go round in Washington. His cap hit was $10 Mil in 21 and increases in 22... Washington could afford him... Miami couldn't... hence the trade I see. Alright good info.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Dec 16, 2021 11:42:52 GMT -5
a bigger question would be why wasn't he promoted/moved up the ladder after 8 years as ST coach. I mean he speaks a good game and stuff and I'm sure if BB saw his smarts and intilec I would think he would've been someone that would've at least after that long of a time move up the ladder??? Who knows... he had several positions with BB at special teams and WR, and was only 30 when he went to the Pats. Maybe Bill was happy with the higher up coaches he had. Who knows? But, there's no denying that he personally contacted Mara and gave a rousing endorsement for the guys potential, and at 38 at the time that's all that he had... potential, and very little real experience. But, he came to a team in a Covid season with no preseason games, a host of new faces, including a fairly new, raw QB, a whole new coaching staff of men who had never worked together before, and a host of personell changes and unjuries this year. If you want to judge him this season based on an Oline that has 1 starter and 4 practice squad players, be my guest. You can continue to complain about him all you want, but you are spitting in the wind because he ain't going no place for at least another season, and maybe even beyond. You can't change the owner, the coach, or the QB, so I'm sorry the team sucks for you, but I have been around too long to do nothing but complain about what is and what can't be changed. Living with that anger shortens a happy life. iyeah sure he'll remain but his ass is on the seat that's burning up that's for sure. I don't even dislike the guy or rooting for him to fail but a lot of the shit that he has preached has not transpired. So yeah if he continues to be mediocre in having at least a disciplined team regardless of who is on the field or their level of talent, then we will continue to get what the heck we deserve by keeping him on board!! And that's just one of his failures thus far since he's been here; there's been a many from a coaching standpoint........
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Post by Zimonami on Dec 16, 2021 12:02:11 GMT -5
Who knows... he had several positions with BB at special teams and WR, and was only 30 when he went to the Pats. Maybe Bill was happy with the higher up coaches he had. Who knows? But, there's no denying that he personally contacted Mara and gave a rousing endorsement for the guys potential, and at 38 at the time that's all that he had... potential, and very little real experience. But, he came to a team in a Covid season with no preseason games, a host of new faces, including a fairly new, raw QB, a whole new coaching staff of men who had never worked together before, and a host of personell changes and unjuries this year. If you want to judge him this season based on an Oline that has 1 starter and 4 practice squad players, be my guest. You can continue to complain about him all you want, but you are spitting in the wind because he ain't going no place for at least another season, and maybe even beyond. You can't change the owner, the coach, or the QB, so I'm sorry the team sucks for you, but I have been around too long to do nothing but complain about what is and what can't be changed. Living with that anger shortens a happy life. iyeah sure he'll remain but his ass is on the seat that's burning up that's for sure. I don't even dislike the guy or rooting for him to fail but a lot of the shit that he has preached has not transpired. So yeah if he continues to be mediocre in having at least a disciplined team regardless of who is on the field or their level of talent, then we will continue to get what the heck we deserve by keeping him on board!! And that's just one of his failures thus far since he's been here; there's been a many from a coaching standpoint........ Absolutely, a lot of mistakes. But, that's what you're going to get from a 1st time HC at 39 who has very little experience coaching a whole team and assistant coaches Not even an OC or DC. I don't like it, but I'm not surprised at the mistakes this team is making with practice squad players sprinkled into your Oline and WR positions. Inferior talent and no continuity week to week to acquire any cohesiveness/chemistry that an OLIne and DB's need badly... experience working together. It is what it is... with the quality of our players, the injuries, and the reality of how poor this 'professional' Oline is, I'm not going to fry JJ. The best coach in the NFL couldn't get much more out of that horrible OLine. All the coaching in the world is not going to make Skura, Price, Hernandez, and Solder play any better, or be better players. So, I guess you'd love a different coach. Who? Who with experience and a good track record is going to be available? JJ leaves, and a few years down the line when he's got a few years of learning under his belt he becomes an outstanding coach. Are you sorry you didn't have patience and hold on to him while he made mistakes. And, even the best of them make mistakes every single game.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Dec 16, 2021 12:44:01 GMT -5
iyeah sure he'll remain but his ass is on the seat that's burning up that's for sure. I don't even dislike the guy or rooting for him to fail but a lot of the shit that he has preached has not transpired. So yeah if he continues to be mediocre in having at least a disciplined team regardless of who is on the field or their level of talent, then we will continue to get what the heck we deserve by keeping him on board!! And that's just one of his failures thus far since he's been here; there's been a many from a coaching standpoint........ Absolutely, a lot of mistakes. But, that's what you're going to get from a 1st time HC at 39 who has very little experience coaching a whole team and assistant coaches Not even an OC or DC. I don't like it, but I'm not surprised at the mistakes this team is making with practice squad players sprinkled into your Oline and WR positions. Inferior talent and no continuity week to week to acquire any cohesiveness/chemistry that an OLIne and DB's need badly... experience working together. It is what it is... with the quality of our players, the injuries, and the reality of how poor this 'professional' Oline is, I'm not going to fry JJ. The best coach in the NFL couldn't get much more out of that horrible OLine. All the coaching in the world is not going to make Skura, Price, Hernandez, and Solder play any better, or be better players. So, I guess you'd love a different coach. Who? Who with experience and a good track record is going to be available? JJ leaves, and a few years down the line when he's got a few years of learning under his belt he becomes an outstanding coach. Are you sorry you didn't have patience and hold on to him while he made mistakes. And, even the best of them make mistakes every single game. well i'll tell you what lol, if we were to have some of the same things happen next year like injuries and such, then no matter what it's a results oriented business and he'd be out. I expect the O line to be in a much better spot next year and hopefully we will be in a much better spot with the dang injuries. But yeah it's all about the results and it'll be pretty simple next year to move on if there's not a lot of growth and improvement. It is what it is.
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Post by jimmieray on Dec 16, 2021 12:49:23 GMT -5
a bigger question would be why wasn't he promoted/moved up the ladder after 8 years as ST coach. I mean he speaks a good game and stuff and I'm sure if BB saw his smarts and intilec I would think he would've been someone that would've at least after that long of a time move up the ladder??? Who knows... he had several positions with BB at special teams and WR, and was only 30 when he went to the Pats. Maybe Bill was happy with the higher up coaches he had. Who knows? But, there's no denying that he personally contacted Mara and gave a rousing endorsement for the guys potential, and at 38 at the time that's all that he had... potential, and very little real experience. I see B.B. now has 2 sons coaching for the Patriots, in their very successful defense. And while Judge was given their receiving unit, which in the past worked with a revolving cast, it flopped. Why do so many believe that B.B is still truly a Giant at heart?
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Post by Zimonami on Dec 16, 2021 15:49:27 GMT -5
Absolutely, a lot of mistakes. But, that's what you're going to get from a 1st time HC at 39 who has very little experience coaching a whole team and assistant coaches Not even an OC or DC. I don't like it, but I'm not surprised at the mistakes this team is making with practice squad players sprinkled into your Oline and WR positions. Inferior talent and no continuity week to week to acquire any cohesiveness/chemistry that an OLIne and DB's need badly... experience working together. It is what it is... with the quality of our players, the injuries, and the reality of how poor this 'professional' Oline is, I'm not going to fry JJ. The best coach in the NFL couldn't get much more out of that horrible OLine. All the coaching in the world is not going to make Skura, Price, Hernandez, and Solder play any better, or be better players. So, I guess you'd love a different coach. Who? Who with experience and a good track record is going to be available? JJ leaves, and a few years down the line when he's got a few years of learning under his belt he becomes an outstanding coach. Are you sorry you didn't have patience and hold on to him while he made mistakes. And, even the best of them make mistakes every single game. well i'll tell you what lol, if we were to have some of the same things happen next year like injuries and such, then no matter what it's a results oriented business and he'd be out. I expect the O line to be in a much better spot next year and hopefully we will be in a much better spot with the dang injuries. But yeah it's all about the results and it'll be pretty simple next year to move on if there's not a lot of growth and improvement. It is what it is. The injuries are concerning. I'd like to see some data on which stadium has the most injuries, and are they mostly with the same turf as we have. I fully expect next year to play out like..... Serious chance that we don't see Gates or Lemieux back, or not back totally fit. That leaves us Thomas as the core, and 4 fannies to fill. All 4 of the others have to go. There is not a single one of them of is good enough. So, unless we have some unexpected trades, or a good find in FA, where we don't have much to spend, we're gonna have (4) new guys coming off the draft. Even is we luck out and all (4) are solid, it will take some time for them to get experience in this NFL, where most of the best Olinemen reach their peak around 27-28. It still reminds me of when we got Parcells in '81. The line stunk and they developed it slowly until it really got good in '85. We are at that '81 point and it may take some time for the payoff, which was '85 for us when we reached the NFC Championship against Chicago. It was painful to be a Giant fan in the mid, late 60's, the entire 70's, and the first couple of years in '81. It's been 10 years of shit for this francvhise. Time t0o get the ship righted, but it won't be next year. Next year we have to finish the season feeling we have at least 4 of the 5 Olinemen positions stable for a while. Bart Oates was the final piece when he came in '85. Coincidentally, '85 also brought us Bavaro. Those 5 and Bavaro used to open 5' wide holes. That's the goal. You're a threat to run at any time makes the passing game go. I sure hope we'll get there soon. This time is getting to be as painful as that first down time 60's/70's. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 16, 2021 17:23:56 GMT -5
well i'll tell you what lol, if we were to have some of the same things happen next year like injuries and such, then no matter what it's a results oriented business and he'd be out. I expect the O line to be in a much better spot next year and hopefully we will be in a much better spot with the dang injuries. But yeah it's all about the results and it'll be pretty simple next year to move on if there's not a lot of growth and improvement. It is what it is. The injuries are concerning. I'd like to see some data on which stadium has the most injuries, and are they mostly with the same turf as we have. I fully expect next year to play out like..... Serious chance that we don't see Gates or Lemieux back, or not back totally fit. That leaves us Thomas as the core, and 4 fannies to fill. All 4 of the others have to go. There is not a single one of them of is good enough. So, unless we have some unexpected trades, or a good find in FA, where we don't have much to spend, we're gonna have (4) new guys coming off the draft. Even is we luck out and all (4) are solid, it will take some time for them to get experience in this NFL, where most of the best Olinemen reach their peak around 27-28. It still reminds me of when we got Parcells in '81. The line stunk and they developed it slowly until it really got good in '85. We are at that '81 point and it may take some time for the payoff, which was '85 for us when we reached the NFC Championship against Chicago. It was painful to be a Giant fan in the mid, late 60's, the entire 70's, and the first couple of years in '81. It's been 10 years of shit for this francvhise. Time t0o get the ship righted, but it won't be next year. Next year we have to finish the season feeling we have at least 4 of the 5 Olinemen positions stable for a while. Bart Oates was the final piece when he came in '85. Coincidentally, '85 also brought us Bavaro. Those 5 and Bavaro used to open 5' wide holes. That's the goal. You're a threat to run at any time makes the passing game go. I sure hope we'll get there soon. This time is getting to be as painful as that first down time 60's/70's. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ I'll be shocked out of my boots if Gates is ready to play at all next season. That was a gruesome injury. I'm expecting a 2 year recovery, if he ever plays again. Lemieux on the other hand, could be healthy next year, his question is on the talent side. He showed promise, but didn't play enough to show it on the field, so personally, I'm not counting on him for anything other than depth. I hear you on the development in the early 80's. Bavaro was such a good blocker, it was like having a 3rd tackle on the line. He's one of the most impressive players I've ever seen (era considered of course).
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Post by myronguyton29 on Dec 16, 2021 17:32:52 GMT -5
well i'll tell you what lol, if we were to have some of the same things happen next year like injuries and such, then no matter what it's a results oriented business and he'd be out. I expect the O line to be in a much better spot next year and hopefully we will be in a much better spot with the dang injuries. But yeah it's all about the results and it'll be pretty simple next year to move on if there's not a lot of growth and improvement. It is what it is. The injuries are concerning. I'd like to see some data on which stadium has the most injuries, and are they mostly with the same turf as we have. I fully expect next year to play out like..... Serious chance that we don't see Gates or Lemieux back, or not back totally fit. That leaves us Thomas as the core, and 4 fannies to fill. All 4 of the others have to go. There is not a single one of them of is good enough. So, unless we have some unexpected trades, or a good find in FA, where we don't have much to spend, we're gonna have (4) new guys coming off the draft. Even is we luck out and all (4) are solid, it will take some time for them to get experience in this NFL, where most of the best Olinemen reach their peak around 27-28. It still reminds me of when we got Parcells in '81. The line stunk and they developed it slowly until it really got good in '85. We are at that '81 point and it may take some time for the payoff, which was '85 for us when we reached the NFC Championship against Chicago. It was painful to be a Giant fan in the mid, late 60's, the entire 70's, and the first couple of years in '81. It's been 10 years of shit for this francvhise. Time t0o get the ship righted, but it won't be next year. Next year we have to finish the season feeling we have at least 4 of the 5 Olinemen positions stable for a while. Bart Oates was the final piece when he came in '85. Coincidentally, '85 also brought us Bavaro. Those 5 and Bavaro used to open 5' wide holes. That's the goal. You're a threat to run at any time makes the passing game go. I sure hope we'll get there soon. This time is getting to be as painful as that first down time 60's/70's. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Great points. I don't mind being patient with a process that has a plan and that plan is showing promise and progress. It's really about time right now, at year's end for that to begin and they ALL from Mara on down to Judge had better figure it out and what that plan is. It's been enough of the shit show that we have been and to be honest I'm glad my mindset overall has changed with sports over the past 5 years so I can actually really not give a damn now and go about something else wayyyy wayyy more important than entertainment of watching super rich folks lives. I became a Giant fan in 85 actually at the age of 10 and ever since have been a die hard. Living and growing up in SC I didn't have cable so I only got what Giants games was coming on and you didn't know sometimes what games was coming on if not in the tv guide or newspapers. So I'd make due however I could and try and get to the tv first if I knew my game was coming on; that and hoped no one else in the house bitched as they wanted to watch something else. One year I decided to order the Giants news weekly and that was the 89 season in which we drafted some pretty good pieces that contributed very very well. I would get the paper a week after already knowing the result lol but I still read the paper in it's entirety. It was pleasant to kind of feel a part of the franchise and to get good information and to feel as if I knew the team better. I would for years go in the stores and look thru the magazines and read up on what was said about us, our projections, ect. Every year around the time the mags came out I'd be in the stores looking thru and most of the time I didn't buy one lol. But that's how much of a die hard I was/is but I was wayyy waayyy waayyy more in touch back then. I still love my NYG because they were my first love and I've seen a lot of good thru all of the bad. Needless to say it will be good to get back in the good graces and become a modern and well respected franchise again no doubt and hopefully that process starts at the EOY!! And to another point i started to actually make a post about when it comes to the HC and experience as some are saying right now we need a seasoned HC or one with experience for the process that we are in and sure that would be great if if came to that and someone was available. I do recall and I used to say myself that we needed a bright young innovative coach one who knows the new NFL and can relate and be innovative, ect. But actually rather that be the HC or the OC it would be nice to have that. Well we did get Judge as far as a young HC. How innovative he can be as he learns remains to be seen. Depending on what they do at OC also remains to be seen but we need them to be a heck of a lot better than they have been the past few years. Hopefully new pieces on the OL will allow us/them to be able to do that and be much more effective.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Dec 16, 2021 17:39:42 GMT -5
well i'll tell you what lol, if we were to have some of the same things happen next year like injuries and such, then no matter what it's a results oriented business and he'd be out. I expect the O line to be in a much better spot next year and hopefully we will be in a much better spot with the dang injuries. But yeah it's all about the results and it'll be pretty simple next year to move on if there's not a lot of growth and improvement. It is what it is. The injuries are concerning. I'd like to see some data on which stadium has the most injuries, and are they mostly with the same turf as we have. I fully expect next year to play out like..... Serious chance that we don't see Gates or Lemieux back, or not back totally fit. That leaves us Thomas as the core, and 4 fannies to fill. All 4 of the others have to go. There is not a single one of them of is good enough. So, unless we have some unexpected trades, or a good find in FA, where we don't have much to spend, we're gonna have (4) new guys coming off the draft. Even is we luck out and all (4) are solid, it will take some time for them to get experience in this NFL, where most of the best Olinemen reach their peak around 27-28. It still reminds me of when we got Parcells in '81. The line stunk and they developed it slowly until it really got good in '85. We are at that '81 point and it may take some time for the payoff, which was '85 for us when we reached the NFC Championship against Chicago. It was painful to be a Giant fan in the mid, late 60's, the entire 70's, and the first couple of years in '81. It's been 10 years of shit for this francvhise. Time t0o get the ship righted, but it won't be next year. Next year we have to finish the season feeling we have at least 4 of the 5 Olinemen positions stable for a while. Bart Oates was the final piece when he came in '85. Coincidentally, '85 also brought us Bavaro. Those 5 and Bavaro used to open 5' wide holes. That's the goal. You're a threat to run at any time makes the passing game go. I sure hope we'll get there soon. This time is getting to be as painful as that first down time 60's/70's. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ forgot to add yeah those were the days for sure that I remember us being very good but at that age I didn't understand the game as I do now but all I did remember was wondering why we seemed to be so dawg on conservative lol. I wanted to score more points and such but I guess we did win a good bit with that style Parcells and BB had so I'll take it . Yeah those guys were beasts thats for sure!!
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Post by myronguyton29 on Dec 16, 2021 17:43:02 GMT -5
also forgot to add that coincedentally that year I ordered the Giants News weekly we won the Superbowl beating the Bills. Perhaps I should see if that paper is still available lol heheheeee
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Post by Zimonami on Dec 16, 2021 18:37:22 GMT -5
also forgot to add that coincedentally that year I ordered the Giants News weekly we won the Superbowl beating the Bills. Perhaps I should see if that paper is still available lol heheheeee Yeah, you were only 11 in '86, but that's old enough to appreciate it. You've seen our 4 SB's. You've seen plenty, but you started at our peak in the 80's, and are now in a 10 year slump. I started watching in '58, and can only claim the same (4) SB's, and I started at their down slide and saw that 20 years of crap. Hope you don't have to wait another 10.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Dec 16, 2021 18:56:21 GMT -5
also forgot to add that coincedentally that year I ordered the Giants News weekly we won the Superbowl beating the Bills. Perhaps I should see if that paper is still available lol heheheeee Yeah, you were only 11 in '86, but that's old enough to appreciate it. You've seen our 4 SB's. You've seen plenty, but you started at our peak in the 80's, and are now in a 10 year slump. I started watching in '58, and can only claim the same (4) SB's, and I started at their down slide and saw that 20 years of crap. Hope you don't have to wait another 10. wow and yes fingers crossed; let's hope not......
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