|
QB in 2023
Sept 2, 2022 12:46:24 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by cdngfan on Sept 2, 2022 12:46:24 GMT -5
I don’t think Schoen and Daboll are going to manage or coach based on fan expectations. I think they’ll be politically smart, but they both seem too determined to worry about fan pressure after 12 months. . If they start winning more games, when they find their franchise QB is not as relevant. No one’s asking for regime change in SF and their franchise QB is their backup now. If the Giants stay below 7 wins after year two, then it’s back to John and whether he thinks he’s on the right track firing every two years or whether he gives Schoen as much time as he gave Getty. It’s not really comparable but I have to hire people as part of my career. I’d rather die on the hill of doing what I can to find the right guy and suffering because I haven’t, rather than hiring the cream of the shit and then having to answer for how bad they are. They may pick a QB that is the cream of the shit in the draft and do the same thing I mentioned, win enough games despite the QB play. I’m never advocating against drafting a QB. I hate the “pick him in 2023 or 2023 is your last year” mindset. The pressure is real, Daboll/Schoen know they have a couple seasons to get this is headed in the right direction whomever the QB is. Whatever the case with Jones, I would think they need to have their QB on the field in 2023. In regard to this OP, I don't see a scenario where the Giants would replace Jones with another placeholder at QB. I base that mostly on what QB's will likely be available. I think it’s highly unlikely that they don’t draft a QB, unless they have an amazing season. I think they want the advantage of a rookie QB contract in building this team. It’s that reasoning that makes alot of sense to me. I don’t like the knee jerk reaction, in general. I think there’s a higher probability that they tag Jones than most fans think, and still draft a QB. Especially if they want the rookie 4 year contract but feel like their draft choice is a project and not ready. For me the point is, for the first time in a long time the GM of the Giants is the smartest guy in the room. Martinez cut, Slayton still part of the 53, he’s doing things that (a) no one is predicting, (b) with a little reasonable thought, it’s clear there’s a purpose to these moves that makes sense.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Sept 2, 2022 13:08:36 GMT -5
The pressure is real, Daboll/Schoen know they have a couple seasons to get this is headed in the right direction whomever the QB is. Whatever the case with Jones, I would think they need to have their QB on the field in 2023. In regard to this OP, I don't see a scenario where the Giants would replace Jones with another placeholder at QB. I base that mostly on what QB's will likely be available. I think it’s highly unlikely that they don’t draft a QB, unless they have an amazing season. I think they want the advantage of a rookie QB contract in building this team. It’s that reasoning that makes alot of sense to me. I don’t like the knee jerk reaction, in general. I think there’s a higher probability that they tag Jones than most fans think, and still draft a QB. Especially if they want the rookie 4 year contract but feel like their draft choice is a project and not ready. For me the point is, for the first time in a long time the GM of the Giants is the smartest guy in the room. Martinez cut, Slayton still part of the 53, he’s doing things that (a) no one is predicting, (b) with a little reasonable thought, it’s clear there’s a purpose to these moves that makes sense. You may be right. But just to put it out there, I think that Jones age and contract wouldn't be a problem with the inflating cap next year and our roster built almost entirely of rookie contracts.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Sept 2, 2022 13:18:38 GMT -5
I think it’s highly unlikely that they don’t draft a QB, unless they have an amazing season. I think they want the advantage of a rookie QB contract in building this team. It’s that reasoning that makes alot of sense to me. I don’t like the knee jerk reaction, in general. I think there’s a higher probability that they tag Jones than most fans think, and still draft a QB. Especially if they want the rookie 4 year contract but feel like their draft choice is a project and not ready. For me the point is, for the first time in a long time the GM of the Giants is the smartest guy in the room. Martinez cut, Slayton still part of the 53, he’s doing things that (a) no one is predicting, (b) with a little reasonable thought, it’s clear there’s a purpose to these moves that makes sense. You may be right. But just to put it out there, I think that Jones age and contract wouldn't be a problem with the inflating cap next year and our roster built almost entirely of rookie contracts. for me its simple. If Jones is worth it to them they either tag or extend.
|
|
|
Post by bluebuddha on Sept 2, 2022 13:34:06 GMT -5
I do give it to this new FO and coaching staff that they are better at PR than thier previous counterparts. I think DGs main goal was to change the lockerroom also and build culture also, maybe worded differently. Schoen and Co. will need to show results within 3 years for them to keep thier jobs in the current NFL. I am not sold as I have seen this song and dance before. This year will be a good indicator of Dabolls ability . Next year we shoud see Schoen find more players that will fit the team better and hopefully start reaping the benefits of this years draft. 2025 should be the year it all clicks. Getty is so hated that fans don’t remember what a dumpster fire our locker room was. He absolutely fixed that. We had players refusing to play. Literally. He’s just a GM from the 90s and he’s playing with 90s tech in the 2020s (metaphor). I don’t think the Giants record matters at all this year. If they win 3 games it’s because Jones wi be hurt or horrible and it puts them in a position to draft a new QB in the first 2-4 picks, and I think that buys them 2 more years. I honestly don’t think they have less than 3 years because I think they managing John and the media and fans and players differently than Getty ever did. Ownership has not shown they can sit back and be patient. Hopefully they can show a steady hand and stay the course.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Sept 2, 2022 13:35:40 GMT -5
You may be right. But just to put it out there, I think that Jones age and contract wouldn't be a problem with the inflating cap next year and our roster built almost entirely of rookie contracts. for me its simple. If Jones is worth it to them they either tag or extend. Once the final roster is set, the projected cap numbers are going to be very interesting. I would bet the Giants will have more cap space than most teams, even with a potential QB franchise tag. Williams/Jackson/Golloday are literally the only players making any real FA money.
|
|
|
Post by cdngfan on Sept 2, 2022 13:37:26 GMT -5
I think it’s highly unlikely that they don’t draft a QB, unless they have an amazing season. I think they want the advantage of a rookie QB contract in building this team. It’s that reasoning that makes alot of sense to me. I don’t like the knee jerk reaction, in general. I think there’s a higher probability that they tag Jones than most fans think, and still draft a QB. Especially if they want the rookie 4 year contract but feel like their draft choice is a project and not ready. For me the point is, for the first time in a long time the GM of the Giants is the smartest guy in the room. Martinez cut, Slayton still part of the 53, he’s doing things that (a) no one is predicting, (b) with a little reasonable thought, it’s clear there’s a purpose to these moves that makes sense. You may be right. But just to put it out there, I think that Jones age and contract wouldn't be a problem with the inflating cap next year and our roster built almost entirely of rookie contracts. Jones playing well opens up a lot of possibilities. There can also be some surprises in there. Jones could play really well and they draft a QB anyway because they see a higher ceiling. It’s simplified if he doesn’t play well, but still not cut and dry. Like I said, I’m really happy with the consistency of Schoen so far. You can trace decisions over the wider strategy, and see it making sense. Almost from the outset Getty was saying the right things but it didn’t line up with his choices. Reese had more consistency but the flaws in his strategy became glaring quickly.
|
|
|
QB in 2023
Sept 2, 2022 13:42:38 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by cdngfan on Sept 2, 2022 13:42:38 GMT -5
Getty is so hated that fans don’t remember what a dumpster fire our locker room was. He absolutely fixed that. We had players refusing to play. Literally. He’s just a GM from the 90s and he’s playing with 90s tech in the 2020s (metaphor). I don’t think the Giants record matters at all this year. If they win 3 games it’s because Jones wi be hurt or horrible and it puts them in a position to draft a new QB in the first 2-4 picks, and I think that buys them 2 more years. I honestly don’t think they have less than 3 years because I think they managing John and the media and fans and players differently than Getty ever did. Ownership has not shown they can sit back and be patient. Hopefully they can show a steady hand and stay the course. Completely agree. I hope the difference this time is bette communication with Schoen and expectations that make sense. He’s already making a difference with fans. Daboll and Schoen are a lot fan friendlier, media friendlier, and while we’re still in the honeymoon stage, it’s making Mara’s life easier. I think Mara will be uncomfortable but impressed with the FO changes, and that may create more resiliency in his support for Schoen. I remember the world calling for Coughlin’s head for most of his tenure, and John stuck it out with him. So he can do it, but he needs to feel he has solid reasoning to do it. I think that’s what was missing with the HC revolving door.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Sept 2, 2022 14:18:53 GMT -5
The reascent history of the owners does not bode well for that assumption. I assuming, even if Jones doesnt work out, there will be a good measure of success in general to hang their hats on for the first season. Especially the pile of crap they were left with. I do not think they get a pass if this season is bad. Draft or sign a QB and have a second bad season. This year IMO is a must have no less than 7 wins. Next year more than 7 wins if they do not want to be under the looking glass.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Sept 2, 2022 14:22:31 GMT -5
I assuming, even if Jones doesnt work out, there will be a good measure of success in general to hang their hats on for the first season. Especially the pile of crap they were left with. I do not think they get a pass if this season is bad. Draft or sign a QB and have a second bad season. This year IMO is a must have no less than 7 wins. Next year more than 7 wins if they do not want to be under the looking glass. no doubt...they aren't getting a pass nor should they
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Sept 2, 2022 14:41:59 GMT -5
I do not think they get a pass if this season is bad. Draft or sign a QB and have a second bad season. This year IMO is a must have no less than 7 wins. Next year more than 7 wins if they do not want to be under the looking glass. no doubt...they aren't getting a pass nor should they As I said not one of past 3 HC received a pass. History is not on their side.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Sept 3, 2022 6:35:28 GMT -5
no doubt...they aren't getting a pass nor should they As I said not one of past 3 HC received a pass. History is not on their side. BTW who is saying anything about them getting a pass? Schoen and Daboll are betting their careers that they can eventually turn this team around. They will need a few seasons to accomplish that if thy can. This is season one and it counts.
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Sept 3, 2022 6:50:44 GMT -5
As I said not one of past 3 HC received a pass. History is not on their side. BTW who is saying anything about them getting a pass? Schoen and Daboll are betting their careers that they can eventually turn this team around. They will need a few seasons to accomplish that if thy can. This is season one and it counts. I don't think the Giants wanted to cut ties with Joe Judge so quickly. It's the last thing they wanted to do. As a franchise, they have always stressed stability. By the end of the season, it was clear to everyone, that he had to go. The back to back victory formations was simply icing on the cake. There were so many indicators that it simply wasn't working. Watching the 3 preseason games, our team looked better prepared than any time under Judge, and mostly Shurmer as well. I have a good feeling for this staff for the long term. This year may be "interesting".
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Sept 3, 2022 7:03:45 GMT -5
As I said not one of past 3 HC received a pass. History is not on their side. BTW who is saying anything about them getting a pass?Schoen and Daboll are betting their careers that they can eventually turn this team around. They will need a few seasons to accomplish that if thy can. This is season one and it counts. Did you not say this yesterday? the luxury Daboll and Schoen have is if Jones isnt the guy then their clock starts over next season. Thats a substantial factor in their decision in keeping Jones even if he has a good season in 2022. As of now Schoen is saying that Mara is letting them do their jobs and they are just keeping him informed. If they have success I feel that situation will only get better. Meaning Mara will continue to "just be an owner" and not a voice. In this thread? thegiantsboard.proboards.com/thread/11401/qb-2023?page=2I am just trying to gather where you stand. Because it reads like a reset. Did your opinion change? Me I think they should get 4 years as a minimum. But the owners seem to be on a 2-year timetable. Whether I agree with that or not is irrelevant. History shows they want to cut the cord after year 2. That is their timeline. This staff have until next year to have a respectable season. Did Pat get clock restart when they drafted DJ? That has been my whole point. Their career hinge on what is done this and next season. It has nothing to do with drafting a QB in 2023. There is no Parley because of "well he is a rookie QB" If they suck even with a rook QB or Tyrod next season. They are most likely gone. DONT SUCK . That is how HCs and GMs keep their Job.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Sept 3, 2022 7:16:26 GMT -5
BTW who is saying anything about them getting a pass?Schoen and Daboll are betting their careers that they can eventually turn this team around. They will need a few seasons to accomplish that if thy can. This is season one and it counts. Did you not say this yesterday? the luxury Daboll and Schoen have is if Jones isnt the guy then their clock starts over next season. Thats a substantial factor in their decision in keeping Jones even if he has a good season in 2022. As of now Schoen is saying that Mara is letting them do their jobs and they are just keeping him informed. If they have success I feel that situation will only get better. Meaning Mara will continue to "just be an owner" and not a voice. In this thread? thegiantsboard.proboards.com/thread/11401/qb-2023?page=2I am just trying to gather where you stand. Because it reads like a reset. Did your opinion change? Me I think they should get 4 years as a minimum. But the owners seem to be on a 2-year timetable. Whether I agree with that or not is irrelevant. History shows they want to cut the cord after year 2. That is their timeline. This staff have until next year to have a respectable season. Yes I did....The clock starting over at QB. I wasnt clear in that. regardless of Jones' season in 2022 they are rebuilding this team starting the day they were hired. They get a pass on the QB but not a pass on what the overall goal of 2022 is supposed to be. They wont be blamed that much if Jones fails this season
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Sept 3, 2022 7:17:50 GMT -5
Did you not say this yesterday? In this thread? thegiantsboard.proboards.com/thread/11401/qb-2023?page=2I am just trying to gather where you stand. Because it reads like a reset. Did your opinion change? Me I think they should get 4 years as a minimum. But the owners seem to be on a 2-year timetable. Whether I agree with that or not is irrelevant. History shows they want to cut the cord after year 2. That is their timeline. This staff have until next year to have a respectable season. Yes I did....The clock starting over at QB. I wasnt clear in that. regardless of Jones' season in 2022 they are rebuilding this team starting the day they were hired. They get a pass on the QB but not a pass on what the overall goal of 2022 is supposed to be. They wont be blamed that much if Jones fails this season I agree.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Sept 3, 2022 7:18:09 GMT -5
BTW who is saying anything about them getting a pass? Schoen and Daboll are betting their careers that they can eventually turn this team around. They will need a few seasons to accomplish that if thy can. This is season one and it counts. I don't think the Giants wanted to cut ties with Joe Judge so quickly. It's the last thing they wanted to do. As a franchise, they have always stressed stability. By the end of the season, it was clear to everyone, that he had to go. The back to back victory formations was simply icing on the cake. There were so many indicators that it simply wasn't working. Watching the 3 preseason games, our team looked better prepared than any time under Judge, and mostly Shurmer as well. I have a good feeling for this staff for the long term. This year may be "interesting". Thry def did not I am sure when they hired him they tought "this is the guy". He turned out to be a disaster. I liked him from day one. Then he showed he was unfit to be an HC.
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Sept 3, 2022 7:38:07 GMT -5
I don't think the Giants wanted to cut ties with Joe Judge so quickly. It's the last thing they wanted to do. As a franchise, they have always stressed stability. By the end of the season, it was clear to everyone, that he had to go. The back to back victory formations was simply icing on the cake. There were so many indicators that it simply wasn't working. Watching the 3 preseason games, our team looked better prepared than any time under Judge, and mostly Shurmer as well. I have a good feeling for this staff for the long term. This year may be "interesting". Thry def did not I am sure when they hired him they tought "this is the guy". He turned out to be a disaster. I liked him from day one. Then he showed he was unfit to be an HC. yep, I was in the same boat, it took me a few weeks longer than you to get there last season. That was a tough go, holy crap!!
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Sept 3, 2022 7:44:51 GMT -5
Thry def did not I am sure when they hired him they tought "this is the guy". He turned out to be a disaster. I liked him from day one. Then he showed he was unfit to be an HC. yep, I was in the same boat, it took me a few weeks longer than you to get there last season. That was a tough go, holy crap!! yeah....he folded/collapsed like a broken lawn chair. Will a long time before he gets another crack at it. His basic plan was sound. He just couldn't execute it. I think he even surprised himself how bad it was. Was a lot to ask of him, at the stage of his coaching experience, to right this sinking ship.
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Sept 3, 2022 8:14:40 GMT -5
yep, I was in the same boat, it took me a few weeks longer than you to get there last season. That was a tough go, holy crap!! yeah....he folded/collapsed like a broken lawn chair. Will a long time before he gets another crack at it. His basic plan was sound. He just couldn't execute it. I think he even surprised himself how bad it was. Was a lot to ask of him, at the stage of his coaching experience, to right this sinking ship. that's for sure, especially given the inadequate front office set up. He was totally set up to fail.
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Sept 3, 2022 8:56:10 GMT -5
If DJ doesn't stay healthy this season, the Giants may end up still not knowing if he is the guy or not. Let's hope he can play the whole season. that situation concerns me too, if it happens that way and Jones is injured the decision on him will be put off for another year...
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Sept 3, 2022 9:09:37 GMT -5
If DJ doesn't stay healthy this season, the Giants may end up still not knowing if he is the guy or not. Let's hope he can play the whole season. If Jones cant stay healthy he isnt the guy. Its part of what a franchise QB has to do. be available.
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Sept 3, 2022 9:45:17 GMT -5
Anybody else going to be peeking at college QB’s today?
|
|
|
Post by shocknaweny on Sept 3, 2022 9:48:44 GMT -5
Anybody else going to be peeking at college QB’s today? definitely
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Sept 3, 2022 11:14:53 GMT -5
If DJ doesn't stay healthy this season, the Giants may end up still not knowing if he is the guy or not. Let's hope he can play the whole season. If Jones cant stay healthy he isnt the guy. Its part of what a franchise QB has to do. be available. I agree, if he misses too much of the season, they'll move on, like Miami did with Tannehil.
|
|
|
QB in 2023
Sept 3, 2022 11:48:41 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by giantlegacy on Sept 3, 2022 11:48:41 GMT -5
Anybody else going to be peeking at college QB’s today? We will be all year
|
|
|
Post by giants1 on Sept 3, 2022 11:58:17 GMT -5
I would not be surprised to see Trubisky out there again. The Jets....they could be looking for another QB and Darnold from the Panthers could be available. None of them I really care much for. Miami has been trying to offload Tua but I think keeps asking for too much. Wentz may also be available depending on if his feelings get hurt in DC. Non of these back-up would be worth taking.
|
|
|
Post by krappdetector on Sept 3, 2022 18:00:00 GMT -5
If DJ doesn't stay healthy this season, the Giants may end up still not knowing if he is the guy or not. Let's hope he can play the whole season. that situation concerns me too, if it happens that way and Jones is injured the decision on him will be put off for another year...If Jones is injured and unable to show out he is kaput, toast, finito.. DONE.At least as a Giant.
|
|
mendy
Starter
Posts: 4,010
|
Post by mendy on Sept 3, 2022 18:15:50 GMT -5
that situation concerns me too, if it happens that way and Jones is injured the decision on him will be put off for another year...If Jones is injured and unable to show out he is kaput, toast, finito.. DONE.At least as a Giant. I think this goes without saying. No one has said anything different.
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Sept 3, 2022 18:32:17 GMT -5
If Jones is injured and unable to show out he is kaput, toast, finito.. DONE.At least as a Giant. I think this goes without saying. No one has said anything different. Actually Red, Snyder says something different in the post you quoted
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Sept 3, 2022 18:35:16 GMT -5
that situation concerns me too, if it happens that way and Jones is injured the decision on him will be put off for another year...If Jones is injured and unable to show out he is kaput, toast, finito.. DONE.At least as a Giant. If he plays less than 15 games this season, he is done here
|
|