mendy
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Post by mendy on Feb 1, 2024 11:36:20 GMT -5
Annoying . Had it not happen in Baltimore all so then it might have been(damaging) but now it's just annoying. It sounds as if you're describing your personal feelings and not the feelings of Brian Daboll and the front office.
Being overly emotional during the game is not exactly what I'd want from my HC.
I guess it comes down to what you consider "overly emotional"? I know you've been a fan for awhile and you have seen the "yellers" ,I have no problem with them there are times during a game it's needed. I live down in the DMV and the fans were livid with River boat Ron standing there and doing nothing, he showed Zero emotion. Sorry I just didn't see where Daboll was overly emotional, again players said they never knew anything was going on. |
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mendy
Starter
Posts: 4,787
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Post by mendy on Feb 1, 2024 11:39:27 GMT -5
Annoying . Had it not happen in Baltimore all so then it might have been(damaging) but now it's just annoying. To be fair, it seems like it was definitely happening in Baltimore to a degree, but for sure looks worse here. There was no public blowup with Baltimore. Just a fair amount of reports (with validity) that some of these things, thematically speaking, were also happening there. But Harbaugh is one of the best coaches in the NFL and Daboll clearly has some work to do, so that's not surprising. Just to be clear the Baltimore Press and the NY Press are two different things. |
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Post by inconvenientruth on Feb 1, 2024 12:04:16 GMT -5
Oh definitely. Which big name candidate is interviewing for the Giants DC? We will also shortly be hiring a OC. This offseasons just begun for Daboll, so far, I'm not exactly impressed with the names presented Wink is no longer relevant for us Giants fans. He can still retired for all I care. But he was a damn good DC. Let's see who Daboll can find that will for sure be better His last three seasons as a defensive coordinator, he has had the 25th ranked defense or worse. He has now left two teams after apparently feuding with the head coach and has not been hired even though there are openings. As much as I appreciated turnover-fest for 7 weeks, paired with improved play, and the fact his 3rd down defense was always solid, he couldn't even replicate his good Baltimore run defenses here even though we have the best nose in the league paired with Leonard Williams throughout most of his tenure. Add to that sloppy tackling for much of his two seasons. We gotta get this guy off a pedestal. No idea if the next guy will be better, but I don't think acting like we lost Dick LaBeau makes a lot of sense either. Our Head Coach never had a top 25 offence, at all. Other than with Josh Allen. Ill take Winks career as a DC over anything Dabolls done as a OC, its not even remotely close. This past year, his defence held teams to below 20 points 6 times, tied with Browns for the lead in the NFL in 23' Lets see how many win this pathetic offence generated without that in 24' And lets call it like it is, Wink developed and played Dex at Nose, and not the 1 technique he played previously. Leonard William sucks and did nothing in Seattle or in NY since he got his contract. Im sure you know how team run defence is played, its a team effort and all about gap integrity. Not about two defensive tackles. So not sure what you're getting after there But fair enough, lets see who the Giants hire on defence? I see that we've lost out on a few LB coaches who have never called plays, whats plan B? Very much looking forward to seeing how the gold star candidate does with largely the same talent group. We can chat about it at the end of next year. I suspect there are a few LB/DB coaches who are still up from promos out there. This is great, we get to see a bad OC in Daboll call his own plays, and we get to see what our defence looks like with a 'real' DC in 24', you should be thrilled, just keep the same energy when it becomes a reality. |
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Post by jaymas on Feb 1, 2024 12:16:36 GMT -5
His last three seasons as a defensive coordinator, he has had the 25th ranked defense or worse. He has now left two teams after apparently feuding with the head coach and has not been hired even though there are openings. As much as I appreciated turnover-fest for 7 weeks, paired with improved play, and the fact his 3rd down defense was always solid, he couldn't even replicate his good Baltimore run defenses here even though we have the best nose in the league paired with Leonard Williams throughout most of his tenure. Add to that sloppy tackling for much of his two seasons. We gotta get this guy off a pedestal. No idea if the next guy will be better, but I don't think acting like we lost Dick LaBeau makes a lot of sense either. Our Head Coach never had a top 25 offence, at all. Other than with Josh Allen. Ill take Winks career as a DC over anything Dabolls done as a OC, its not even remotely close. This past year, his defence held teams to below 20 points 6 times, tied with Browns for the lead in the NFL Lets see how many win this pathetic offence generated without that in 24' But fair enough, lets see who the Giants hire on defence? I see that we've lost out on a few LB coaches who have never called plays, whats plan B? Name me an offensive coordinator that has a good offense with shitty QBs? You seem to place the most importance in a QB (which I agree with), are the hardest on Jones (also don't disagree), but then when it comes time to remember that in conversations like these, that all of a sudden goes away? In Cleveland Dabs had Brady Quinn, Derek Anderson, Colt McCoy, late career Jake Delhomme, and Seneca Wallace. In Miami, where he actually did achieve the 20th-ranked offense one year, he had Matt Moore In KC he had Matt Cassell, Brady Quinn, and Ricky Stanzi. The moment the guy got real QB talent, he was successful whether at Bama or in Buffalo. And really, we're going to discount his development of Josh Allen, one of the rawest QB prospects to come out? Not to mention they missed Daboll, clearly, for a season and a half with Ken Dorsey. Meanwhile, it's worth mentioning that Baltimore seems to crap out good defensive coordinators for their entire history. |
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Post by inconvenientruth on Feb 1, 2024 12:19:15 GMT -5
Our Head Coach never had a top 25 offence, at all. Other than with Josh Allen. Ill take Winks career as a DC over anything Dabolls done as a OC, its not even remotely close. This past year, his defence held teams to below 20 points 6 times, tied with Browns for the lead in the NFL Lets see how many win this pathetic offence generated without that in 24' But fair enough, lets see who the Giants hire on defence? I see that we've lost out on a few LB coaches who have never called plays, whats plan B? Name me an offensive coordinator that has a good offense with shitty QBs? You seem to place the most importance in a QB (which I agree with), are the hardest on Jones (also don't disagree), but then when it comes time to remember that in conversations like these, that all of a sudden goes away? In Cleveland Dabs had Brady Quinn, Derek Anderson, Colt McCoy, late career Jake Delhomme, and Seneca Wallace. In Miami, where he actually did achieve the 20th-ranked offense one year, he had Matt Moore In KC he had Matt Cassell, Brady Quinn, and Ricky Stanzi. The moment the guy got real QB talent, he was successful whether at Bama or in Buffalo. And really, we're going to discount his development of Josh Allen, one of the rawest QB prospects to come out? Not to mention they missed Daboll, clearly, for a season and a half with Ken Dorsey. Meanwhile, it's worth mentioning that Baltimore seems to crap out good defensive coordinators for their entire history. So Daboll needs talent to be good, but Wink should be good without talent? why the dichotomy? Wink with CBs that aren't rookies for 2/3 positions has had top 2-3 defences. Yet you shit on what he's done |
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Post by jaymas on Feb 1, 2024 12:19:19 GMT -5
To be fair, it seems like it was definitely happening in Baltimore to a degree, but for sure looks worse here. There was no public blowup with Baltimore. Just a fair amount of reports (with validity) that some of these things, thematically speaking, were also happening there. But Harbaugh is one of the best coaches in the NFL and Daboll clearly has some work to do, so that's not surprising. Just to be clear the Baltimore Press and the NY Press are two different things. Sure, but that's not the point here. Dabs has things to work on. It's a terrible look that his progressive staff hiring process where he went outside his circle quite a bit in order to fill out the staff, went bad on the defensive side of the ball in less than 2 seasons. I think it's telling Wink does not have a job yet though and I'm not even sure what openings are left. |
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Post by jaymas on Feb 1, 2024 12:21:41 GMT -5
Name me an offensive coordinator that has a good offense with shitty QBs? You seem to place the most importance in a QB (which I agree with), are the hardest on Jones (also don't disagree), but then when it comes time to remember that in conversations like these, that all of a sudden goes away? In Cleveland Dabs had Brady Quinn, Derek Anderson, Colt McCoy, late career Jake Delhomme, and Seneca Wallace. In Miami, where he actually did achieve the 20th-ranked offense one year, he had Matt Moore In KC he had Matt Cassell, Brady Quinn, and Ricky Stanzi. The moment the guy got real QB talent, he was successful whether at Bama or in Buffalo. And really, we're going to discount his development of Josh Allen, one of the rawest QB prospects to come out? Not to mention they missed Daboll, clearly, for a season and a half with Ken Dorsey. Meanwhile, it's worth mentioning that Baltimore seems to crap out good defensive coordinators for their entire history. So Daboll needs talent to be good, but Wink should be good without talent? why the dichotomy? There isn't talent on the Giants' defense? That's news to me. And also, there is nothing on defense we can compare to the QBs effect on the overall performance of the unit. It makes no sense the giants had such a bad run defense for 2 years with the talent available to Wink, especially this year. |
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Post by inconvenientruth on Feb 1, 2024 12:24:31 GMT -5
So Daboll needs talent to be good, but Wink should be good without talent? why the dichotomy? There isn't talent on the Giants' defense? That's news to me. And also, there is nothing on defense we can compare to the QBs effect on the overall performance of the unit. It makes no sense the giants had such a bad run defense for 2 years with the talent available to Wink, especially this year. Our rushing defence wasn't close to being as bad as anything on offence, you know that right? you also do know our investment on offence exceeds that of the defence? Daboll got his guy in Daniel Jones. Did he not? |
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Post by inconvenientruth on Feb 1, 2024 12:27:04 GMT -5
Our run defence ranked 29/32
Passing offence: 31/32
Redzone offence: 31/32
Third down offence: 31/32
Lets keep the same energy.
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Post by jaymas on Feb 1, 2024 12:27:35 GMT -5
There isn't talent on the Giants' defense? That's news to me. And also, there is nothing on defense we can compare to the QBs effect on the overall performance of the unit. It makes no sense the giants had such a bad run defense for 2 years with the talent available to Wink, especially this year. Our rushing defence wasn't close to being as bad as anything on offence, you know that right?you also do know our investment on offence exceeds that of the defence? Of course I know that, but that's why I highlight as things not being equal between offense and defense because of the QB. I also know your next point, but there is still blue chip investment on defense from a draft pick perspective. Lots of first and 2nd rounders there, plus our biggest FA acquisition of last offseason. Players on their rook contracts obviously don't count as much against the cap. And personally, regardless of all this shit, I'd prefer a scheme that uses EDGE players differently than Wink did. |
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Post by jaymas on Feb 1, 2024 12:27:58 GMT -5
Our run defence ranked 29/32 Passing offence: 31/32 Redzone offence: 31/32 Third down offence: 31/32 Lets keep the same energy. Both things can be ass. And they are. |
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Post by jaymas on Feb 1, 2024 12:28:48 GMT -5
There isn't talent on the Giants' defense? That's news to me. And also, there is nothing on defense we can compare to the QBs effect on the overall performance of the unit. It makes no sense the giants had such a bad run defense for 2 years with the talent available to Wink, especially this year. Our rushing defence wasn't close to being as bad as anything on offence, you know that right? you also do know our investment on offence exceeds that of the defence? Daboll got his guy in Daniel Jones. Did he not?That is where we agree that Dabs and Schoen effed up. They committed. However, it doesn't change the fact he stinks, and thus the offense won't reach anything but mediocre with him. |
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Post by inconvenientruth on Feb 1, 2024 12:35:02 GMT -5
Our rushing defence wasn't close to being as bad as anything on offence, you know that right?you also do know our investment on offence exceeds that of the defence? Of course I know that, but that's why I highlight as things not being equal between offense and defense because of the QB. I also know your next point, but there is still blue chip investment on defense from a draft pick perspective. Lots of first and 2nd rounders there, plus our biggest FA acquisition of last offseason. Players on their rook contracts obviously don't count as much against the cap. And personally, regardless of all this shit, I'd prefer a scheme that uses EDGE players differently than Wink did. Our EDGE players can't pass rush. People think its coaching, we will find out next year. The fact our defence was relevant without a semblance of pass rush is amazing. Azeez and Thib ranked 90th and 91st in beating OT's 1 v 1 in 23'. Thats 100% on the players. in 2023, we spent a 2nd on OC, and a 3rd WR (defence: 1st on a CB) in 2022, we spent a 1st, 2nd and 3rd on offence, (defence: 1st on Thib) in 2021, 1st on WR, (defence: 2nd on Ojulari, 3rd on CB) in 2020, 1st on OT, 3rd on OT (defence: 2nd on Mckinney) we've drafted 8 players on offence (3 firsts, 2 2nds, and 3 3's), and 5 players on defence (2 firsts, 2 seconds, one third) since 2020 Offence also added a contract for DJ and Saquon, not to mention Paris Campbell, Slayton, Darren Waller, etc. Defence got Okereke. Lets not pretend the investment is close to the same. We've been putting massive resources into our offence and have virtually nothing to show for it. This is/was the problem with the Giants. |
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Post by imgrate on Feb 1, 2024 13:23:00 GMT -5
Our run defence ranked 29/32 Passing offence: 31/32 Redzone offence: 31/32 Third down offence: 31/32 Lets keep the same energy. Both things can be ass. And they are. The defense performed middle of the pack on a per drive basis, offense bottom 3. The gross rankings of the defense look bad, but that’s because they were on the field for more drives than most all teams (we were 5th in most drives). Additionally, even with the relatively high amount of drives, the defense was able to get off the field tied for 3rd best in plays per drive. Our offense? Tied for 3rd worst in the league. Our defense’s performance is severely underrated on this forum. |
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 1, 2024 13:34:23 GMT -5
What a massive miscalculation by Wink if he doesn't get a job during this hiring cycle ... basically forced his way out of a job and $3M.
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Post by Sarcasman on Feb 1, 2024 13:38:56 GMT -5
His last three seasons as a defensive coordinator, he has had the 25th ranked defense or worse. He has now left two teams after apparently feuding with the head coach and has not been hired even though there are openings. As much as I appreciated turnover-fest for 7 weeks, paired with improved play, and the fact his 3rd down defense was always solid, he couldn't even replicate his good Baltimore run defenses here even though we have the best nose in the league paired with Leonard Williams throughout most of his tenure. Add to that sloppy tackling for much of his two seasons. We gotta get this guy off a pedestal. No idea if the next guy will be better, but I don't think acting like we lost Dick LaBeau makes a lot of sense either. Our Head Coach never had a top 25 offence, at all. Other than with Josh Allen. Ill take Winks career as a DC over anything Dabolls done as a OC, its not even remotely close. This past year, his defence held teams to below 20 points 6 times, tied with Browns for the lead in the NFL in 23' Lets see how many win this pathetic offence generated without that in 24' And lets call it like it is, Wink developed and played Dex at Nose, and not the 1 technique he played previously. Leonard William sucks and did nothing in Seattle or in NY since he got his contract. Im sure you know how team run defence is played, its a team effort and all about gap integrity. Not about two defensive tackles. So not sure what you're getting after there But fair enough, lets see who the Giants hire on defence? I see that we've lost out on a few LB coaches who have never called plays, whats plan B? Very much looking forward to seeing how the gold star candidate does with largely the same talent group. We can chat about it at the end of next year. I suspect there are a few LB/DB coaches who are still up from promos out there. This is great, we get to see a bad OC in Daboll call his own plays, and we get to see what our defence looks like with a 'real' DC in 24', you should be thrilled, just keep the same energy when it becomes a reality. I'm still not a buyer of the idea that there is any comparison here. One is a HC and one is a coordinator, it's like comparing the 3rd base coach to the manager. |
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Post by inconvenientruth on Feb 1, 2024 13:55:06 GMT -5
Our Head Coach never had a top 25 offence, at all. Other than with Josh Allen. Ill take Winks career as a DC over anything Dabolls done as a OC, its not even remotely close. This past year, his defence held teams to below 20 points 6 times, tied with Browns for the lead in the NFL in 23' Lets see how many win this pathetic offence generated without that in 24' And lets call it like it is, Wink developed and played Dex at Nose, and not the 1 technique he played previously. Leonard William sucks and did nothing in Seattle or in NY since he got his contract. Im sure you know how team run defence is played, its a team effort and all about gap integrity. Not about two defensive tackles. So not sure what you're getting after there But fair enough, lets see who the Giants hire on defence? I see that we've lost out on a few LB coaches who have never called plays, whats plan B? Very much looking forward to seeing how the gold star candidate does with largely the same talent group. We can chat about it at the end of next year. I suspect there are a few LB/DB coaches who are still up from promos out there. This is great, we get to see a bad OC in Daboll call his own plays, and we get to see what our defence looks like with a 'real' DC in 24', you should be thrilled, just keep the same energy when it becomes a reality. I'm still not a buyer of the idea that there is any comparison here. One is a HC and one is a coordinator, it's like comparing the 3rd base coach to the manager. Well, let's see how the manager, manages. 2 months out from the draft, and the LB coaches that are our best bet would rather coach in Tennessee. Odd how the manager isn't able to attract much talent. Isn't that his only job then? To be a people leader? Maybe real coaches would rather not be MFed all the time, maybe they would I find it comical that we as a fan base would rather look to see what Winks doing, rather than what we're not doing. Which is bringing in anyone of relevance to replace the proverbial bad apple Im glad we know for sure that Wink was the problem. It's not like our defence could possibly be worst next year, given the alleged 'bad' candidate we had calling plays. Next year will be very telling. Let's hope everyone in this thread keeps the same energy. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Feb 1, 2024 14:29:36 GMT -5
I'm still not a buyer of the idea that there is any comparison here. One is a HC and one is a coordinator, it's like comparing the 3rd base coach to the manager. Well, let's see how the manager, manages. 2 months out from the draft, and the LB coaches that are our best bet would rather coach in Tennessee. Odd how the manager isn't able to attract much talent. Isn't that his only job then? To be a people leader? Maybe real coaches would rather not be MFed all the time, maybe they would I find it comical that we as a fan base would rather look to see what Winks doing, rather than what we're not doing. Which is bringing in anyone of relevance to replace the proverbial bad apple Im glad we know for sure that Wink was the problem. It's not like our defence could possibly be worst next year, given the alleged 'bad' candidate we had calling plays. Next year will be very telling. Let's hope everyone in this thread keeps the same energy. I'm not one for conjoining completely disparate issues. The thread was about Martindale, Daboll doesn't factor into it at all. I'm happy to have a conversation about Daboll, just not in the context of Martindale as they have nothing to do with one another. I'm no Daboll fan and I'm not confident that he's got what it takes to be a top HC in this league, we'll see. But we can kick dirt on Daboll all day, it ain't making Martindale any taller just as Daboll flaming out in the future says absolutely nothing about Martindale. |
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Post by inconvenientruth on Feb 1, 2024 14:52:34 GMT -5
Well, let's see how the manager, manages. 2 months out from the draft, and the LB coaches that are our best bet would rather coach in Tennessee. Odd how the manager isn't able to attract much talent. Isn't that his only job then? To be a people leader? Maybe real coaches would rather not be MFed all the time, maybe they would I find it comical that we as a fan base would rather look to see what Winks doing, rather than what we're not doing. Which is bringing in anyone of relevance to replace the proverbial bad apple Im glad we know for sure that Wink was the problem. It's not like our defence could possibly be worst next year, given the alleged 'bad' candidate we had calling plays. Next year will be very telling. Let's hope everyone in this thread keeps the same energy. I'm not one for conjoining completely disparate issues. The thread was about Martindale, Daboll doesn't factor into it at all. I'm happy to have a conversation about Daboll, just not in the context of Martindale as they have nothing to do with one another. I'm no Daboll fan and I'm not confident that he's got what it takes to be a top HC in this league, we'll see. But we can kick dirt on Daboll all day, it ain't making Martindale any taller just as Daboll flaming out in the future says absolutely nothing about Martindale. I'm not a huge fan of this fan base making broad generalizations and character assassinations of x-giants Especially given our own predicament |
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Post by Sarcasman on Feb 1, 2024 16:00:26 GMT -5
I'm not one for conjoining completely disparate issues. The thread was about Martindale, Daboll doesn't factor into it at all. I'm happy to have a conversation about Daboll, just not in the context of Martindale as they have nothing to do with one another. I'm no Daboll fan and I'm not confident that he's got what it takes to be a top HC in this league, we'll see. But we can kick dirt on Daboll all day, it ain't making Martindale any taller just as Daboll flaming out in the future says absolutely nothing about Martindale. I'm not a huge fan of this fan base making broad generalizations and character assassinations of x-giants Especially given our own predicament Martindale? Eh, there's nothing unique about his situation. Plus if we're being honest some of it is of his own doing. |
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Post by IrishMike on Feb 1, 2024 17:14:44 GMT -5
Yeah his fiery little bald head doesn't seem like the type to get screamed at and just sit there. LOL I don't think so I think he is as serious as a heart attack his dream job is on the line. From hiring Kafka's interviews seem he is set to stay for this year anyway so there is one guy thats not afraid and plans to improve this offense. Hell yeah. Hopefully all the BS in the news makes everything out in the open and people can start making this team great. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 1, 2024 22:29:01 GMT -5
LOL I don't think so I think he is as serious as a heart attack his dream job is on the line. From hiring Kafka's interviews seem he is set to stay for this year anyway so there is one guy thats not afraid and plans to improve this offense. Hell yeah. Hopefully all the BS in the news makes everything out in the open and people can start making this team great. The truth lies some where in the middle Kafka isn't leaving if he does I will gladly eat crow, He gets it bosses aren't always in greta moods when your Job is to win football games he gets it him Wink and McGaughey and Daboll all have to do better and Daboll is charged with holding their feet to fire if they aren't getting it done. |
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