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Post by idkaname on Mar 8, 2024 10:54:13 GMT -5
Sadly, I have to start this off by saying I'm not advocating Jones as great / the future /etc....
What I am showing is just how bad the 2019 Draft Class was ....
2019
Round 1: Kyler Murray* (No. 1), Daniel Jones (No. 6), Dwayne Haskins (No. 15)
Round 2: Drew Lock (No. 42)
Round 3: Will Grier (No. 100)
Round 4: Ryan Finley (No. 104), Jarrett Stidham (No. 133)
Round 5: Easton Stick (No. 166), Clayton Thorson (No. 167)
Round 6: Gardner Minshew (No. 178), Trace McSorley (No. 197)
Notable undrafted: David Blough, Devlin Hodges
We literally got the best QB available in the draft....(I know this following statement will be a necessary point to make as well...) We had no chance to pick Murray so he isn't included.
Regardless, even if we took Murray or any other QB in this draft for that matter, the team is exactly the same / worse....
Our only mistake in 2019 was taking a QB at all.....
Everyone was saying we took TOO long to move on from Manning but boy oh boy...there was 1 player in 3 drafts from 2015-2018 that would've been a "good" selection...Josh Allen....and I'm not confident he would've even been half the player he is now coming to us because he needed a lot of improvements... That's CRAZY. We virtually had 0% chance of getting a "decent" QB unless we waited for the rare class that was 2020. Now, we have to assume this year is another anomaly that happens maybe 1 time every 10-15 years with multiple quality starters (or get lucky enough to hit on the 1-2 studs there MAY be).
Again, this isn't a Jones defense jury, just pointing out that we technically made the best pick(out of 2019 QB class)...assuming everyone wanted to move on from Eli...and it was CLEARLY time...just poor timing is what Daniel Jones came down too.
For comparison....look at these other drafts...
2022
Round 1: Kenny Pickett (No. 20)
Round 3: Desmond Ridder (No. 74), Malik Willis (No. 86), Matt Corral (No. 94)
Round 4: Bailey Zappe (No. 137)
Round 5: Sam Howell (No. 144)
Round 7: Chris Oladokun (No. 241), Skylar Thompson (No. 247), Brock Purdy (No. 262)
Notable undrafted: Anthony Brown
2021
Round 1: Trevor Lawrence* (No. 1), Zach Wilson (No. 2), Trey Lance (No. 3), Justin Fields (No. 11), Mac Jones* (No. 15)
Round 2: Kyle Trask (No. 64)
Round 3: Kellen Mond (No. 66), Davis Mills (No. 67)
Round 4: Ian Book (No. 133)
Round 6: Sam Ehlinger (No. 218)
***2020
Round 1: Joe Burrow* (No. 1), Tua Tagovailoa (No. 5), Justin Herbert* (No. 6), Jordan Love (No. 26)
Round 3: Jalen Hurts* (No. 53)
Round 4: Jacob Eason (No. 122), James Morgan (No. 125)
Round 5: Jake Fromm (No. 167)
Round 6: Jake Luton (No. 189)
Round 7: Cole McDonald (No. 224), Ben DiNucci (No. 231), Tommy Stevens (No. 240), Nate Stanley (No. 244)
2018
Round 1: Baker Mayfield (No. 1), Sam Darnold (No. 3), Josh Allen* (No. 7), Josh Rosen (No. 10), Lamar Jackson* (No. 32)
Round 3: Mason Rudolph (No. 76)
Round 4: Kyle Lauletta (No. 108)
Round 5: Mike White (No. 171)
Round 6: Luke Falk (No. 199), Tanner Lee (No. 203)
Round 7: Danny Etling (No. 219), Alex McGough (No. 220), Logan Woodside (No. 249)
Notable undrafted: Kyle Allen
2017
Round 1: Mitchell Trubisky* (No. 2), Patrick Mahomes* (No. 10), Deshaun Watson* (No. 12)
Round 2: DeShone Kizer (No. 52)
Round 3: Davis Webb (No. 87), C.J. Beathard (No. 104)
Round 4: Joshua Dobbs (No. 135)
Round 5: Nathan Peterman (No. 171)
Round 6: Brad Kaaya (No. 215)
Round 7: Chad Kelly (No. 253)
Notable undrafted: Taysom Hill, Nick Mullens
2016
Round 1: Jared Goff* (No. 1), Carson Wentz* (No. 2), Paxton Lynch (No. 26)
Round 2: Christian Hackenberg (No. 51)
Round 3: Jacoby Brissett (No. 91), Cody Kessler (No. 93)
Round 4: Connor Cook (No. 100), Dak Prescott* (No. 135), Cardale Jones (No. 139)
Round 5: Kevin Hogan (No. 162)
Round 6: Nate Sudfeld (No. 187), Jake Rudock (No. 191), Brandon Allen (No. 201), Jeff Driskel (No. 207)
Round 7: Brandon Doughty (No. 223)
2015
Round 1: Jameis Winston* (No. 1), Marcus Mariota (No. 2)
Round 3: Garrett Grayson (No. 75), Sean Mannion (No. 89)
Round 4: Bryce Petty (No. 103)
Round 5: Brett Hundley (No. 147)
Round 7: Trevor Siemian (No. 250)
*** Let's hope this years draft is half as good as 2020, or get ready for Daniel Jones to lead the charge for another 2-3 years....
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Post by Analyst on Mar 8, 2024 11:04:09 GMT -5
Yes. And then we doubled down on it.
It was a terrible QB class. I would take Gardner Minshew over Daniel Jones.
Josh Allen was the obvious choice to me at 6. Now, he hasnt been as great as I expected until this past season when he was dominant, but still would be nice to have that the past 5 years, paired with Thibs the past 2.
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 8, 2024 11:24:06 GMT -5
He was a miss IMO, given that there was a top edge rusher available when we picked that we deparately needed at the time (Josh Allen), and while it took a year or two for him to find his footing in Jacksonville, he has done that. There were many here at the time that really wanted Allen the way teh draft played out that night. Generally I'm not one to rehash these things, but that was the reality of that draft.
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Post by inconvenientruth on Mar 8, 2024 11:30:15 GMT -5
The fact this is still a question among the fanbase, shows me that the chunk of the fanbase that believes the OPs statement, have no clue what they're watching
Sad as it me be, its not for long.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 8, 2024 11:56:35 GMT -5
The fact this is still a question among the fanbase, shows me that the chunk of the fanbase that believes the OPs statement, have no clue what they're watching Sad as it me be, its not for long. It's absolutely astounding. And the logic of this thread is dismal: The other QBs in the draft aren't that good, therefore Jones isn't a miss. |
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Post by inconvenientruth on Mar 8, 2024 11:59:19 GMT -5
The fact this is still a question among the fanbase, shows me that the chunk of the fanbase that believes the OPs statement, have no clue what they're watching Sad as it me be, its not for long. It's absolutely astounding. And the logic of this thread is dismal: The other QBs in the draft aren't that good, therefore Jones isn't a miss. A complete failure to look at our QB, in isolation, but they do the same with his play on the field, so the consistency is there. |
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Post by cdngfan on Mar 8, 2024 12:03:05 GMT -5
Moral of the story: taking a QB because you need a QB doesn’t mean there’s one worth taking.
And.
No one keeps you employed because you filled a need with a dud.
Draft a QB that you’re willing to bet your career on. Because you are.
If you’re not willing to bet your career on one of these QBs, you’re better off finding another way of making this team better.
You’re going to get judged on how you’re playing in your last year regardless.
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Modog
Special Teams
Posts: 1,189
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Post by Modog on Mar 8, 2024 12:03:30 GMT -5
It was a very weak QB class. That doesn't make drafting him any less of a mistake.
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Post by inthezone on Mar 8, 2024 12:28:30 GMT -5
He was a miss IMO, given that there was a top edge rusher available when we picked that we deparately needed at the time (Josh Allen), and while it took a year or two for him to find his footing in Jacksonville, he has done that. There were many here at the time that really wanted Allen the way teh draft played out that night. Generally I'm not one to rehash these things, but that was the reality of that draft. I was thrilled when Allen drop to the #6 slot! Then I was so pissed at the selection that I stopped watching even though they had another pick. I figure they would reach again and didn't want to deal with it that late. |
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Post by inthezone on Mar 8, 2024 12:32:43 GMT -5
The fact this is still a question among the fanbase, shows me that the chunk of the fanbase that believes the OPs statement, have no clue what they're watching Sad as it me be, its not for long. It's a small chunk that believes Jones wasn't a bad selection at this time. Going into this past season it was a much larger group but most have seen what was put on the field and have come to realize how dumb Schoen was giving him that 2.5 year contract. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 8, 2024 12:47:29 GMT -5
Montana
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 8, 2024 12:58:42 GMT -5
Moral of the story: taking a QB because you need a QB doesn’t mean there’s one worth taking. And. No one keeps you employed because you filled a need with a dud. Draft a QB that you’re willing to bet your career on. Because you are. If you’re not willing to bet your career on one of these QBs, you’re better off finding another way of making this team better. You’re going to get judged on how you’re playing in your last year regardless. The other moral of the story: all the noise here, everywhere, and from analysts and “gurus” about QB draft prospects (and all prospects) is just that…noise. |
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Post by jmike on Mar 8, 2024 13:06:15 GMT -5
In hindsight, I wish they took Haskins over Jones. If only because that one change in his history he might still be alive today.
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Post by fredfreddy on Mar 8, 2024 13:14:46 GMT -5
He was a "miss" at 6. Maybe not so much in a later round or even our 2nd pick.
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Post by DJones19 on Mar 8, 2024 13:18:07 GMT -5
Gettleman proved the naysayers wrong he got the only QB in that draft to win a playoff game.
He still probably selected Jones too high like he did with Saquon the year before and then failed to put the pieces in place to build a successful offense. When Richie James, Darius Slayton, and a post-PED Golden Tate are the best receivers a team can offer, you can't expect 30 TD seasons.
Gettleman made some good picks but not great value selections across the board.
I'm thankful for Schoen, he hasn't made great selections so far but sounds much more grounded in reality.
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Post by cdngfan on Mar 8, 2024 13:22:06 GMT -5
Moral of the story: taking a QB because you need a QB doesn’t mean there’s one worth taking. And. No one keeps you employed because you filled a need with a dud. Draft a QB that you’re willing to bet your career on. Because you are. If you’re not willing to bet your career on one of these QBs, you’re better off finding another way of making this team better. You’re going to get judged on how you’re playing in your last year regardless. The other moral of the story: all the noise here, everywhere, and from analysts and “gurus” about QB draft prospects (and all prospects) is just that…noise. THANK YOU. Thank God there’s some sane fans on here. Whatever we do on day 1, some people will love it. Some people will hate it. The only thing that’s a bigger joke than mock drafts are draft grades 5 days after the draft. None of that means anything until the end of 25’ when we see what those picks are actually doing after becoming acclimated to the NFL game. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 8, 2024 13:30:41 GMT -5
The other moral of the story: all the noise here, everywhere, and from analysts and “gurus” about QB draft prospects (and all prospects) is just that…noise. THANK YOU. Thank God there’s some sane fans on here. Whatever we do on day 1, some people will love it. Some people will hate it. The only thing that’s a bigger joke than mock drafts are draft grades 5 days after the draft. None of that means anything until the end of 25’ when we see what those picks are actually doing after becoming acclimated to the NFL game. Yup. Whenever I provide my opinion on draft picks it's always with the caveat of "I'm not a draft expert and for all I know this is way off." That said, for some reason I'm not feeling any of these QBs. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 8, 2024 13:36:20 GMT -5
a few mentally challenged feel Gettleman proved the naysayers wrong he got the only QB in that draft to win a playoff game. . Agreed. Some mentally challenged praise Matt Millen for drafting WR with his 1st pick 3 straight seasons too |
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Post by nobelichickin2025 on Mar 8, 2024 13:42:42 GMT -5
No, “the miss” was firing Shurmur. Jones played well for a rookie and was aggressive. He had a fumbling issue. The Judge Giants tore down his game and made him fear turnovers. He may have been a bust anyway from
a physical standpoint, he cant stay healthy. That said he had a chance to be a player and we ruined him with bad coaching and a bad supporting cast.
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mendy
Starter
Posts: 3,974
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Post by mendy on Mar 8, 2024 13:43:24 GMT -5
No, he's not a miss .Still don't know if he is a hit yet.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 8, 2024 13:54:26 GMT -5
Sadly, I have to start this off by saying I'm not advocating Jones as great / the future /etc.... What I am showing is just how bad the 2019 Draft Class was .... 2019
Round 1: Kyler Murray* (No. 1), Daniel Jones (No. 6), Dwayne Haskins (No. 15)
Round 2: Drew Lock (No. 42)
Round 3: Will Grier (No. 100)
Round 4: Ryan Finley (No. 104), Jarrett Stidham (No. 133)
Round 5: Easton Stick (No. 166), Clayton Thorson (No. 167)
Round 6: Gardner Minshew (No. 178), Trace McSorley (No. 197)
Notable undrafted: David Blough, Devlin Hodges
We literally got the best QB available in the draft....(I know this following statement will be a necessary point to make as well...) We had no chance to pick Murray so he isn't included. Regardless, even if we took Murray or any other QB in this draft for that matter, the team is exactly the same / worse.... Our only mistake in 2019 was taking a QB at all..... Everyone was saying we took TOO long to move on from Manning but boy oh boy...there was 1 player in 3 drafts from 2015-2018 that would've been a "good" selection...Josh Allen....and I'm not confident he would've even been half the player he is now coming to us because he needed a lot of improvements... That's CRAZY. We virtually had 0% chance of getting a "decent" QB unless we waited for the rare class that was 2020. Now, we have to assume this year is another anomaly that happens maybe 1 time every 10-15 years with multiple quality starters (or get lucky enough to hit on the 1-2 studs there MAY be). Again, this isn't a Jones defense jury, just pointing out that we technically made the best pick(out of 2019 QB class)...assuming everyone wanted to move on from Eli...and it was CLEARLY time...just poor timing is what Daniel Jones came down too. For comparison....look at these other drafts... 2022Round 1: Kenny Pickett (No. 20)
Round 3: Desmond Ridder (No. 74), Malik Willis (No. 86), Matt Corral (No. 94)
Round 4: Bailey Zappe (No. 137)
Round 5: Sam Howell (No. 144)
Round 7: Chris Oladokun (No. 241), Skylar Thompson (No. 247), Brock Purdy (No. 262)
Notable undrafted: Anthony Brown2021
Round 1: Trevor Lawrence* (No. 1), Zach Wilson (No. 2), Trey Lance (No. 3), Justin Fields (No. 11), Mac Jones* (No. 15)
Round 2: Kyle Trask (No. 64)
Round 3: Kellen Mond (No. 66), Davis Mills (No. 67)
Round 4: Ian Book (No. 133)
Round 6: Sam Ehlinger (No. 218)
***2020
Round 1: Joe Burrow* (No. 1), Tua Tagovailoa (No. 5), Justin Herbert* (No. 6), Jordan Love (No. 26)
Round 3: Jalen Hurts* (No. 53)
Round 4: Jacob Eason (No. 122), James Morgan (No. 125)
Round 5: Jake Fromm (No. 167)
Round 6: Jake Luton (No. 189)
Round 7: Cole McDonald (No. 224), Ben DiNucci (No. 231), Tommy Stevens (No. 240), Nate Stanley (No. 244)
2018
Round 1: Baker Mayfield (No. 1), Sam Darnold (No. 3), Josh Allen* (No. 7), Josh Rosen (No. 10), Lamar Jackson* (No. 32)
Round 3: Mason Rudolph (No. 76)
Round 4: Kyle Lauletta (No. 108)
Round 5: Mike White (No. 171)
Round 6: Luke Falk (No. 199), Tanner Lee (No. 203)
Round 7: Danny Etling (No. 219), Alex McGough (No. 220), Logan Woodside (No. 249)
Notable undrafted: Kyle Allen
2017
Round 1: Mitchell Trubisky* (No. 2), Patrick Mahomes* (No. 10), Deshaun Watson* (No. 12)
Round 2: DeShone Kizer (No. 52)
Round 3: Davis Webb (No. 87), C.J. Beathard (No. 104)
Round 4: Joshua Dobbs (No. 135)
Round 5: Nathan Peterman (No. 171)
Round 6: Brad Kaaya (No. 215)
Round 7: Chad Kelly (No. 253)
Notable undrafted: Taysom Hill, Nick Mullens
2016
Round 1: Jared Goff* (No. 1), Carson Wentz* (No. 2), Paxton Lynch (No. 26)
Round 2: Christian Hackenberg (No. 51)
Round 3: Jacoby Brissett (No. 91), Cody Kessler (No. 93)
Round 4: Connor Cook (No. 100), Dak Prescott* (No. 135), Cardale Jones (No. 139)
Round 5: Kevin Hogan (No. 162)
Round 6: Nate Sudfeld (No. 187), Jake Rudock (No. 191), Brandon Allen (No. 201), Jeff Driskel (No. 207)
Round 7: Brandon Doughty (No. 223)
2015
Round 1: Jameis Winston* (No. 1), Marcus Mariota (No. 2)
Round 3: Garrett Grayson (No. 75), Sean Mannion (No. 89)
Round 4: Bryce Petty (No. 103)
Round 5: Brett Hundley (No. 147)
Round 7: Trevor Siemian (No. 250)*** Let's hope this years draft is half as good as 2020, or get ready for Daniel Jones to lead the charge for another 2-3 years.... Jones is not perfect, give him a solid OL and a good team a legit #1 he can win games. One thing that is certain when he threw I believe it was at combine or his pro day Daniel Jeremiah was there and was impressed with touch and accuracy he had, he through as good as anyone who through this past combine or better than many of them he didn't miss throws. Jones like every other guy that played a skill spot on this offense has been robbed of his best years maybe he never does anything but Hover at 8-8 to 10-6 if all things were good but that better than what people think of him now. And yes he was the second best QB in that draft and certainly never got the support that Murray got with a decent OL a #1 WR good TE's and good not great Runners. This was DG biggest blunder thats why Schoen got stuck in a bad spot they always had the excuse that DJ didn't have enough around his and had pad coaching. Thye need a new QB for sure but i'm not sure if jones wasn't raised right he could have been at least Tannihill maybe even Cousins. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 8, 2024 13:57:05 GMT -5
THANK YOU. Thank God there’s some sane fans on here. Whatever we do on day 1, some people will love it. Some people will hate it. The only thing that’s a bigger joke than mock drafts are draft grades 5 days after the draft. None of that means anything until the end of 25’ when we see what those picks are actually doing after becoming acclimated to the NFL game. Yup. Whenever I provide my opinion on draft picks it's always with the caveat of "I'm not a draft expert and for all I know this is way off." That said, for some reason I'm not feeling any of these QBs. Felt that way in 2018 and I feel that way this year I still think 2 of them are gonna emerge to be good to really good NFL QBs think Williams and Maye for me |
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Post by myronguyton29 on Mar 8, 2024 13:59:20 GMT -5
Dang sure looks like it thus far........
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Post by lt56 on Mar 8, 2024 14:04:33 GMT -5
it is strange because DJ has shown flashes but the Organization did Fail Him big time too many Coaching Changes which means ZERO Stability and a horrible environment to try and develop a young QB in as well as awful Free Agent Signings that did not work out here like Nate Soldier and Kenny Golladay and others
I think I wanted the other Josh Allen that year because we had a excellent Line that was great against the run in Snacks, Tomlinson and BJ Hill but we had nothing off the Edge other than Olivier Vernon I think at the time before that Cleveland trade for Zeitler and they signed Markus Golden for Cheap
this Organization failed DJ and Barkley by never upgrading the Roster Around them correctly, DG tried though, Nate Soldier, Trading for Zeitler that was suppose to fix the Line but both huge Free Agent Bust here and 2024 Offensive Line is still one of our biggest Needs this off season
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Post by jmike on Mar 8, 2024 14:22:57 GMT -5
The other moral of the story: all the noise here, everywhere, and from analysts and “gurus” about QB draft prospects (and all prospects) is just that…noise. THANK YOU. Thank God there’s some sane fans on here. Whatever we do on day 1, some people will love it. Some people will hate it. The only thing that’s a bigger joke than mock drafts are draft grades 5 days after the draft. None of that means anything until the end of 25’ when we see what those picks are actually doing after becoming acclimated to the NFL game. Both are for entertainment purposes only and should not be taken as seriously as they often are. I lean towards optimism for every draft, because why not be optimistic with every player they draft. |
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Post by inconvenientruth on Mar 8, 2024 14:26:01 GMT -5
Gettleman proved the naysayers wrong he got the only QB in that draft to win a playoff game. He still probably selected Jones too high like he did with Saquon the year before and then failed to put the pieces in place to build a successful offense. When Richie James, Darius Slayton, and a post-PED Golden Tate are the best receivers a team can offer, you can't expect 30 TD seasons. Gettleman made some good picks but not great value selections across the board. I'm thankful for Schoen, he hasn't made great selections so far but sounds much more grounded in reality. Gettlemen was/is dog shit. A conman A dart board would be better at bringing in talent in the draft, and FA. |
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Post by cdngfan on Mar 8, 2024 14:41:37 GMT -5
THANK YOU. Thank God there’s some sane fans on here. Whatever we do on day 1, some people will love it. Some people will hate it. The only thing that’s a bigger joke than mock drafts are draft grades 5 days after the draft. None of that means anything until the end of 25’ when we see what those picks are actually doing after becoming acclimated to the NFL game. Yup. Whenever I provide my opinion on draft picks it's always with the caveat of "I'm not a draft expert and for all I know this is way off." That said, for some reason I'm not feeling any of these QBs. The issue for me is, even if you were feeling one of them, can you get him? If we were picking 2nd and Joe is in love with a QB, how much draft capital would you have to trade in order to get him? So we get back yo your feeling anyway, maybe you can’t get a QB you value. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 8, 2024 14:42:21 GMT -5
No, he's not a miss .Still don't know if he is a hit yet. Yeah… he needs at least year six or seven to prove it. (Insert poor correlation to the Phil Simms’ days) |
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Post by hadenough on Mar 8, 2024 15:32:39 GMT -5
Yeah…if you go back and look at that draft…the Giants could’ve literally taken almost anyone from the next 15 picks and would’ve found a solid starter.
Jones just hasn’t helped NYG.
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jimc
Special Teams
Posts: 198
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Post by jimc on Mar 8, 2024 16:33:07 GMT -5
If you make an investment to move up to get one of these QB’s you better be damn sure, but the odds are against you. Not only that they may not be the answer, but they may not even be better than DJ. Now you have really screwed the team. Brian and Joe know what they have in DJ and know nothing of how these other qb’s will perform in the NFL. None of us can guarantee that any of these guys will perform any better than DJ. I’m thinking we stay at 6 and if a qb falls to 6 AND they absolutely love him, we’ll take him. If not, we’ll continue building the team and make a decision on a qb at the end of the season.
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