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Post by Kase1 on Mar 28, 2024 15:58:36 GMT -5
I need to allocate some resources to get a cheese burger. With a medium pepsi?
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Post by Roosevelt on Mar 28, 2024 15:58:58 GMT -5
- Saquon Barkley: Losing a weapon like Barkley hurts, but I get it. What I don't get is letting him walk without getting anything in return. This seems like a complete waste of an asset. Again, for a team with as many holes as we have, why not tag & trade him? The extra pick or two would've come in handy.
Here's what John Mara said about this: ‘I hate trading guys right at the trade deadline because it almost signals that you are giving up on the season. Saquon, I was still hoping to be able to sign, so I don't regret that. It's unfortunate we weren't able to do it, but from his standpoint at least we allowed him to pick where he wanted to go, and I think we owed him that to tell you the truth rather than just trading him somewhere maybe he wouldn't want to go.’ Thoughts anyone?
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Post by Roosevelt on Mar 28, 2024 15:59:29 GMT -5
It's likely too early to know for sure, but Patty Traina is pretty knowledgeable when it comes to the cap and comp picks. According to one of her recent podcasts she said we're close to being all square in terms of comp picks. We may be in line for a late day-3 pick, but that's it.
I found this to be surprising because it's my understanding the Burns trade shouldn't impact comp picks. I felt losing two players of Barkley's and McKinney's caliber would be pretty big. Maybe Patty, or someone else, will eventually have an update with better news on that front.
Ironically, this literally just popped up on my yahoo home screen. Crazy internet tracking bullshit. This may have already been posted somewhere. www.yahoo.com/sports/giants-john-mara-explains-why-105636440.htmlExactly. I just posted it as well.
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Post by piddy283 on Mar 28, 2024 16:00:10 GMT -5
When I watched the Packers a few times it seemed like Love had a lot of time to throw it even against the Cowboys. In no way was I watching to see how the Guards were playing and they did run against good against 49ers also. Was Runyon a reason for this is something that would need extra watching while focusing on him and that's not happening.
Good to know. Little things like that matter. I'm no Runyan expert either, and I'm relying on random reports, film reviews, etc. I find online. I'd love for him to ball out of control and be the glue that holds the IOL together. It simply seems like a lot of money for someone who isn't lauded as being anything beyond capable.
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Post by vinnie on Mar 28, 2024 16:00:25 GMT -5
Exactly. I just posted it as well. Lol, just saw that.
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Post by Nick6475 on Mar 28, 2024 16:08:43 GMT -5
I Don't know how many of you follow Bobby Skinner on Talkin Giants YouTube channel, but I think he does a good job evaluating players that the Giants have either picked up or are thinking of picking up. Anyway, here's his take on John Runyon. link And his take on Jermaine Eluemunor. Watch what he does to Thibs...twice! linkThanks for those links. I only watched the Runyan one, but he looks decent at pass blocking, but the Giants should run on the opposite direction where he is lined up based on those sample videos.
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Post by piddy283 on Mar 28, 2024 16:13:19 GMT -5
It's likely too early to know for sure, but Patty Traina is pretty knowledgeable when it comes to the cap and comp picks. According to one of her recent podcasts she said we're close to being all square in terms of comp picks. We may be in line for a late day-3 pick, but that's it.
I found this to be surprising because it's my understanding the Burns trade shouldn't impact comp picks. I felt losing two players of Barkley's and McKinney's caliber would be pretty big. Maybe Patty, or someone else, will eventually have an update with better news on that front.
Ironically, this literally just popped up on my yahoo home screen. Crazy internet tracking bullshit. This may have already been posted somewhere. www.yahoo.com/sports/giants-john-mara-explains-why-105636440.htmlThey're always watching bro.
I actually agree with Mara not wanting to trade Barkley mid-season. I'm surprised we didn't tag him after the season then give him permission to seek a trade.
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Post by Nick6475 on Mar 28, 2024 16:20:55 GMT -5
Saquan Barkley: I see the Giants getting a 3rd/4th round compensation pick in the 2025 draft so it's not like they are getting nothing. It's likely too early to know for sure, but Patty Traina is pretty knowledgeable when it comes to the cap and comp picks. According to one of her recent podcasts she said we're close to being all square in terms of comp picks. We may be in line for a late day-3 pick, but that's it.
I found this to be surprising because it's my understanding the Burns trade shouldn't impact comp picks. I felt losing two players of Barkley's and McKinney's caliber would be pretty big. Maybe Patty, or someone else, will eventually have an update with better news on that front.
I don't know how it really works, but it is definitely cumulative. If the Giants lose two high caliber FAs (Barkley & McKinney) and replace them with 3 or 4 mid or low level FAs, maybe it gets cancelled out. I don't think the Burns deal enters into the equation either, but it does seem like losing the two guys they did would result in at least one decent comp pick.
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Post by Nick6475 on Mar 28, 2024 16:37:03 GMT -5
After watching those two videos, it looks like Eluemunor is the better overall OL and the Giants got him at $3M/year less than Runyan.
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Post by giantbob71 on Mar 28, 2024 17:25:09 GMT -5
I agree on Burns...even without him, DLine would've been the strength of the roster. What year is this?? Our DL is a glaring weakness. Outside of Sexy Dexy we are missing the huge hole LW left. DJ Davidson and Jordan Riley are decent rotational players but nothing like what Williams was We're missing pretty much everything??? You can take Burns off the roster and Thibs/Dex makes the DLine the strongest position group. It's really not close. Even with Burns, the Giants have no DT depth, so not sure I see your argument?
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Post by piddy283 on Mar 28, 2024 18:52:47 GMT -5
After watching those two videos, it looks like Eluemunor is the better overall OL and the Giants got him at $3M/year less than Runyan. I like the Eluemunor signing a lot. He’s versatile, he came at a relative bargain, and his personality seems like an awesome fit for the locker room. Plus our new OL coach knows him. Can’t imagine he’d sign off on Eluemunor if he didn’t think he could play.
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Post by Jomo on Mar 28, 2024 19:16:50 GMT -5
I agree that at least according to the playbook, they have "invested in the right positions and walked away from the right positions. I wonder where this clear thinking was last year when they paid and oft injured TE as if he were the best TE in the league only to have him do what? Get injured. I don't want to be an apologist for Schoen and Daboll, but they were handed a reality not of their own making. They tried to pretty much split the baby regarding Jones' contract and Saquan's situation. We were 9-7 in 2022. And while that's nothing to write home about, it did create the possible scenario that we could build on that. that of course.....was an illusion. 'We were not really a good football team in 2022. we won a lot of games early against terrible teams but in the 2nd half we were being crushed by good teams. And we ran into a team in Minnesota that was just as much an illusion as we were in the playoffs. They were really a victim of their own early success. Daboll, in my view, is a heck of a football coach. They also had to deal with the politics of John Mara. And that is no small thing. It's not an excuse of course. But I think it's an accurate review of what they had to deal with. It might have been better all around, that we lost a lot more games in 2022. We would have had the ability to cut ties with, or sign a team friendly deal with Daniel Jones..for one thing. It may have sounded like I was being critical of them in general I wasn't. I think that overall so far so good but I was just reacting to what sounded like unqualified praise for them. Football personnel decisions are an inexact science just like human resources decisions are for any business.i can't bestow genius status on them yet but overall am happy they are here.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 28, 2024 20:31:55 GMT -5
Yesterday I joked that the Giants regimes over the last 10+ years have given us couch GMs the confidence that we can do a better job drafting talent. It was mostly in jest, but every year there seems to be decisions made that leave us scratching our heads.
Along those lines, I have three "concerns" so far this off-season that have me wondering what I'm missing. I use the word concerns lightly, but these all seem like moves that we may very well look back on and wonder what Schoen was thinking....
- Brian Burns: I'm not doubting the potential. The potential to be great is real and the idea of Burns playing alongside Thibs & Dex is exciting. However, we're paying a very good player great money, and we gave up a premium pick to get him. That's a lot for a team with as many holes as we have. Is now the right time to "overpay" for one player?
- Saquon Barkley: Losing a weapon like Barkley hurts, but I get it. What I don't get is letting him walk without getting anything in return. This seems like a complete waste of an asset. Again, for a team with as many holes as we have, why not tag & trade him? The extra pick or two would've come in handy.
- Runyan & Bredeson: I'm no Runyan expert, but based on what I've heard he seems like a borderline starter and we paid him 3yr/$30M. Bredeson is also a borderline starter and he signed for 1yr/$3M. What does Runyan offer that warrants such a price increase? Why not re-sign Bredeson for a fraction of the cost?
In terms of resource allocation, I just question whether or not we could've gotten more bang for our buck. Especially with those last two bullet points. Burns is less of a concern because I do think the potential to be great is there, but it's still a lot to give up. Solid post and great idea to generate some responses. Burns has been a very good player on an absolutely horrible team. He was the only threat on defense and was almost always playing from behind. This is very much an investment into what he COULD be, which is different than most big free agent signings paying for what a player once was. I'm good with taking the chance.
Barkley I said would not be tagged because Schoen doesn't want to look like that type of GM. His image to players is very important. IMO that's all that was. Does suck to lose him.
Runyan. I posted about a month ago my free agent rankings and Runyan is up there with the top OGs in free agency. He is a big step up from Bredeson. Runyan is a better run blocked and a much better pass blocker than Bredeson, plus he's durable. Last three years he had over 3,000 snaps, gave up 7 sacks and only 8 penalties.
I think we were very smart with our money.
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Post by straightrazorman on Mar 28, 2024 20:38:29 GMT -5
What year is this?? Our DL is a glaring weakness. Outside of Sexy Dexy we are missing the huge hole LW left. DJ Davidson and Jordan Riley are decent rotational players but nothing like what Williams was We're missing pretty much everything??? You can take Burns off the roster and Thibs/Dex makes the DLine the strongest position group. It's really not close. Even with Burns, the Giants have no DT depth, so not sure I see your argument? Who do we have as Defensive ends? I mean 290 - 300 pounders who can set the end against 300+ pound O-linemen on running plays. We have Outside LB's, the heaviest being Boogie Basham who weighs 274. Thibs only weighs 258, while Burns weighs 250 and Ojilari weighs 240! They may be or may not be good pass rushers, but we're going to get gashed against runs, especially outside runs. There's no way these light-weights are going to stand up against 300+ pound run blockers.
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ox1
Special Teams
Posts: 138
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Post by ox1 on Mar 29, 2024 5:19:42 GMT -5
I agree that at least according to the playbook, they have "invested in the right positions and walked away from the right positions. I wonder where this clear thinking was last year when they paid and oft injured TE as if he were the best TE in the league only to have him do what? Get injured. I don't want to be an apologist for Schoen and Daboll, but they were handed a reality not of their own making. They tried to pretty much split the baby regarding Jones' contract and Saquan's situation. We were 9-7 in 2022. And while that's nothing to write home about, it did create the possible scenario that we could build on that. that of course.....was an illusion. 'We were not really a good football team in 2022. we won a lot of games early against terrible teams but in the 2nd half we were being crushed by good teams. And we ran into a team in Minnesota that was just as much an illusion as we were in the playoffs. They were really a victim of their own early success. Daboll, in my view, is a heck of a football coach. They also had to deal with the politics of John Mara. And that is no small thing. It's not an excuse of course. But I think it's an accurate review of what they had to deal with. It might have been better all around, that we lost a lot more games in 2022. We would have had the ability to cut ties with, or sign a team friendly deal with Daniel Jones..for one thing. This post should be a "sticky", up at the top of this forum. Then refer to it over and over, would save a lot of time.
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ox1
Special Teams
Posts: 138
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Post by ox1 on Mar 29, 2024 5:21:34 GMT -5
- Saquon Barkley: Losing a weapon like Barkley hurts, but I get it. What I don't get is letting him walk without getting anything in return. This seems like a complete waste of an asset. Again, for a team with as many holes as we have, why not tag & trade him? The extra pick or two would've come in handy.
Here's what John Mara said about this: ‘I hate trading guys right at the trade deadline because it almost signals that you are giving up on the season. Saquon, I was still hoping to be able to sign, so I don't regret that. It's unfortunate we weren't able to do it, but from his standpoint at least we allowed him to pick where he wanted to go, and I think we owed him that to tell you the truth rather than just trading him somewhere maybe he wouldn't want to go.’ Thoughts anyone? LOSER mentality. Why did we "owe" him anything. Is being nice killing this franchise?
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Post by inthezone on Mar 29, 2024 6:33:46 GMT -5
When I watched the Packers a few times it seemed like Love had a lot of time to throw it even against the Cowboys. In no way was I watching to see how the Guards were playing and they did run against good against 49ers also. Was Runyon a reason for this is something that would need extra watching while focusing on him and that's not happening.
Good to know. Little things like that matter. I'm no Runyan expert either, and I'm relying on random reports, film reviews, etc. I find online. I'd love for him to ball out of control and be the glue that holds the IOL together. It simply seems like a lot of money for someone who isn't lauded as being anything beyond capable.
I agree he did get a lot of cash for like you said the reports being made. What they paid Okereke was also bashed by some and he earned it after the few games hopefully Runyon can do the same.
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Post by Kase1 on Mar 30, 2024 8:27:31 GMT -5
What year is this?? Our DL is a glaring weakness. Outside of Sexy Dexy we are missing the huge hole LW left. DJ Davidson and Jordan Riley are decent rotational players but nothing like what Williams was We're missing pretty much everything??? You can take Burns off the roster and Thibs/Dex makes the DLine the strongest position group. It's really not close. Even with Burns, the Giants have no DT depth, so not sure I see your argument? ...Thibs and Dex play different positions. I'm not sure what you're getting at?
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Post by giantbob71 on Apr 1, 2024 21:20:59 GMT -5
We're missing pretty much everything??? You can take Burns off the roster and Thibs/Dex makes the DLine the strongest position group. It's really not close. Even with Burns, the Giants have no DT depth, so not sure I see your argument? ...Thibs and Dex play different positions. I'm not sure what you're getting at? Without Burns...and with Dex/Thibs, the DLine would've still be the best position group in the Giants. Schoen took the best position group and made it stringer, while making just about everything, other than OLine, much weaker. It's a calculated risk, but he better draft well and make a few more moves.
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 2, 2024 6:35:49 GMT -5
They're always watching bro.
I actually agree with Mara not wanting to trade Barkley mid-season. I'm surprised we didn't tag him after the season then give him permission to seek a trade.
Agree 100%. I think it’ll help people decipher JS decisions if they see it through the lens of multiple things can happen, and he plans for more than 1 outcome. I think they wanted to resign Barkley, it’s clear they weren’t going to resign L Williams. The RB market turned out to be better than almost anyone anticipated (the cap increase probably to blame), but if it was garbage then I bet they liked the odds of SB coming down a couple mill per year. The real question is when did they start talking to the Panthers?
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 2, 2024 15:54:38 GMT -5
...Thibs and Dex play different positions. I'm not sure what you're getting at? Without Burns...and with Dex/Thibs, the DLine would've still be the best position group in the Giants. Schoen took the best position group and made it stringer, while making just about everything, other than OLine, much weaker. It's a calculated risk, but he better draft well and make a few more moves. But Thibs is an EDGE/OLB guy, not really a DL. Sure, once in a while he lined up with his hand in the dirt, but the majority of his snaps were on the outside. That being said, DL is still a tremendous weakness on our team outside of Dex
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Post by repeatchamps on Apr 2, 2024 16:12:08 GMT -5
Without Burns...and with Dex/Thibs, the DLine would've still be the best position group in the Giants. Schoen took the best position group and made it stringer, while making just about everything, other than OLine, much weaker. It's a calculated risk, but he better draft well and make a few more moves. But Thibs is an EDGE/OLB guy, not really a DL. Sure, once in a while he lined up with his hand in the dirt, but the majority of his snaps were on the outside. That being said, DL is still a tremendous weakness on our team outside of Dex 100% agree. You need 3 defensive lineman that can put their hand in the dirt on the regular and make an impact. Think of the alignment in this manner for a traditional 3-4 defense. Who will flank Dex on his left and right? Riley and Roches with Davidson rotating in? I surely want to see what Riley and Davidson can do and we know what Roches is at this point of his career. The cupboard on the DL is quite bare behind Dexter and the other DL positions. OLB, DE, DT, DE, OLB ILB, ILB This site assumes that nickel corner is part of the base 11 defense. That's debatable for sure.
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 2, 2024 16:26:24 GMT -5
But Thibs is an EDGE/OLB guy, not really a DL. Sure, once in a while he lined up with his hand in the dirt, but the majority of his snaps were on the outside. That being said, DL is still a tremendous weakness on our team outside of Dex 100% agree. You need 3 defensive lineman that can put their hand in the dirt on the regular and make an impact. Think of the alignment in this manner for a traditional 3-4 defense. Who will flank Dex on his left and right? Riley and Roches with Davidson rotating in? I surely want to see what Riley and Davidson can do and we know what Roches is at this point of his career. The cupboard on the DL is quite bare behind Dexter and the other DL positions. OLB, DE, DT, DE, OLB ILB, ILB This site assumes that nickel corner is part of the base 11 defense. That's debatable for sure.
Like Ive been saying since last season, we need someone to replace the production we lost with Leonard Williams leaving to Seattle
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 2, 2024 17:57:20 GMT -5
But Thibs is an EDGE/OLB guy, not really a DL. Sure, once in a while he lined up with his hand in the dirt, but the majority of his snaps were on the outside. That being said, DL is still a tremendous weakness on our team outside of Dex 100% agree. You need 3 defensive lineman that can put their hand in the dirt on the regular and make an impact. Think of the alignment in this manner for a traditional 3-4 defense. Who will flank Dex on his left and right? Riley and Roches with Davidson rotating in? I surely want to see what Riley and Davidson can do and we know what Roches is at this point of his career. The cupboard on the DL is quite bare behind Dexter and the other DL positions. OLB, DE, DT, DE, OLB ILB, ILB This site assumes that nickel corner is part of the base 11 defense. That's debatable for sure.
Would love the behemoth from Texas, Sweat. Him and Dex would be formidable for any OL.
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Post by Jomo on Apr 3, 2024 6:57:26 GMT -5
- Saquon Barkley: Losing a weapon like Barkley hurts, but I get it. What I don't get is letting him walk without getting anything in return. This seems like a complete waste of an asset. Again, for a team with as many holes as we have, why not tag & trade him? The extra pick or two would've come in handy.
Here's what John Mara said about this: ‘I hate trading guys right at the trade deadline because it almost signals that you are giving up on the season. Saquon, I was still hoping to be able to sign, so I don't regret that. It's unfortunate we weren't able to do it, but from his standpoint at least we allowed him to pick where he wanted to go, and I think we owed him that to tell you the truth rather than just trading him somewhere maybe he wouldn't want to go.’ Thoughts anyone? It is nothing new really. It sounds like an owner who thinks he knows how to build a winning franchise. Clearly he doesn't, read on. Notice he said "I" hate trading guys at the trade deadline. Notice that he said he was "hoping" to be able to sign him with no mention of cap implications devoted to an aging and oft injured RB with a marginal OL in front of him. Notice he said it allowed "him" to pick where he wanted to go.... This is all unsettling to me. We have an owner who puts the interest of a player ahead of the franchise and fans. This may be the ultimate indictment of him as an owner who thinks he know how to run a football team. SMH!
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 3, 2024 8:47:46 GMT -5
Here's what John Mara said about this: ‘I hate trading guys right at the trade deadline because it almost signals that you are giving up on the season. Saquon, I was still hoping to be able to sign, so I don't regret that. It's unfortunate we weren't able to do it, but from his standpoint at least we allowed him to pick where he wanted to go, and I think we owed him that to tell you the truth rather than just trading him somewhere maybe he wouldn't want to go.’ Thoughts anyone? It is nothing new really. It sounds like an owner who thinks he knows how to build a winning franchise. Clearly he doesn't, read on. Notice he said "I" hate trading guys at the trade deadline. Notice that he said he was "hoping" to be able to sign him with no mention of cap implications devoted to an aging and oft injured RB with a marginal OL in front of him. Notice he said it allowed "him" to pick where he wanted to go.... This is all unsettling to me. We have an owner who puts the interest of a player ahead of the franchise and fans. This may be the ultimate indictment of him as an owner who thinks he know how to run a football team. SMH! That certainly an interesting take Jomo. You certainly could be right but I tend to think that this may be more representative of an owner with a conscious, speaking openly in today’s society.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 3, 2024 10:20:46 GMT -5
Burns is a young player, a very good player, and has a ceiling. What's not to like? Are we finding a similar player in round 2? Doubt it. It's not automatic we would've gotten anything at the trade deadline for Barkley. Fans here complained when we traded for Williams on the last year of his deal.. How is that different now with Barkley? Why would teams give up a premium pick when they don't have to? Runyan is a starter, not borderline. Bredeson is backup. And can't stay healthy. Very important. I don't rank them nearly the same. Right on the money MC, I agree with you 100%.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 3, 2024 15:06:16 GMT -5
Here's what John Mara said about this: ‘I hate trading guys right at the trade deadline because it almost signals that you are giving up on the season. Saquon, I was still hoping to be able to sign, so I don't regret that. It's unfortunate we weren't able to do it, but from his standpoint at least we allowed him to pick where he wanted to go, and I think we owed him that to tell you the truth rather than just trading him somewhere maybe he wouldn't want to go.’ Thoughts anyone? It is nothing new really. It sounds like an owner who thinks he knows how to build a winning franchise. Clearly he doesn't, read on. Notice he said "I" hate trading guys at the trade deadline. Notice that he said he was "hoping" to be able to sign him with no mention of cap implications devoted to an aging and oft injured RB with a marginal OL in front of him. Notice he said it allowed "him" to pick where he wanted to go.... This is all unsettling to me. We have an owner who puts the interest of a player ahead of the franchise and fans. This may be the ultimate indictment of him as an owner who thinks he know how to run a football team. SMH! I don't think those possessives were meant to be taken literally. They kept Saquan because they were trying to win games. A decision made by Schoen and Daboll.
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 3, 2024 16:20:41 GMT -5
We're missing pretty much everything??? You can take Burns off the roster and Thibs/Dex makes the DLine the strongest position group. It's really not close. Even with Burns, the Giants have no DT depth, so not sure I see your argument? Who do we have as Defensive ends? I mean 290 - 300 pounders who can set the end against 300+ pound O-linemen on running plays. We have Outside LB's, the heaviest being Boogie Basham who weighs 274. Thibs only weighs 258, while Burns weighs 250 and Ojilari weighs 240! They may be or may not be good pass rushers, but we're going to get gashed against runs, especially outside runs. There's no way these light-weights are going to stand up against 300+ pound run blockers. We havent had a starting caliber DE since Lenny Williams was sent to Seattle. We have OLBs, but nobody to pair on the DL with Dexy.
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Post by Jomo on Apr 5, 2024 10:24:44 GMT -5
It is nothing new really. It sounds like an owner who thinks he knows how to build a winning franchise. Clearly he doesn't, read on. Notice he said "I" hate trading guys at the trade deadline. Notice that he said he was "hoping" to be able to sign him with no mention of cap implications devoted to an aging and oft injured RB with a marginal OL in front of him. Notice he said it allowed "him" to pick where he wanted to go.... This is all unsettling to me. We have an owner who puts the interest of a player ahead of the franchise and fans. This may be the ultimate indictment of him as an owner who thinks he know how to run a football team. SMH! That certainly an interesting take Jomo. You certainly could be right but I tend to think that this may be more representative of an owner with a conscious, speaking openly in today’s society. It is just one "take" on it, nothing more and probably borne out of a decade of poor hiring decisions with HCs and weak drafts. Remmeber when he fired TC but retained JR? It is that kind of stuff that drives me nuts. He probably found comfort in that totally illogical move by telling himself that he's an owner "with a conscience." What conscience, it made no sense, it was time to blow it all up and all he did in keeping JR was to delay the reconstruction of the franchise. That may have made him feel like a better person but it totally dumped on the fans who desperately need him to make better decisions. This is just one small example of a decade of bad decisions. If we were a winning franchise or even close to it, my comments wouldn't be as sharp BUT, Leadership and the decisions by the person at the top have major impact on the outcomes for any business. The NFL is just less punishing for leaders who make bad decisions. The stadium will still be full and the media contracts will still pay handsomely for mediocre performance.
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