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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 11, 2024 9:30:52 GMT -5
A lot of teams have been doing this.
I look at the niners Purdy is nice but If he were on a lesser team he would be just another guy.
I think a team like the Giants are better off drafting high end talent once completed they can trade 2 or 3 high end draft assets to go up and get a guy that can work with a really good team.
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 11, 2024 10:33:10 GMT -5
This is the approach I wanted us to take with Eli's successor. Build up the roster, specifically the OL and the front-7, and allow the next QB (Herbert) to come in and hit the ground running.
Unfortunately, we don't have a potential HOF QB on the roster to help ease the transition this time around. There's also an inexplicable injury clause that's essentially forcing our hand. If the FO doesn't think DJ is the long term answer then the best course of action is to draft a QB this year. Even if it's a mid-round, game manager type that ultimately becomes a bridge QB. We need someone to compete with Lock, or to at least to be his backup, and we need to do what we can to prevent DJ from stepping on the field.
This is why I think trading back is our best option if we don't go QB at #6. As fun as it might be to draft a WR like Nabers or Odunze, we have multiple holes on this roster and this draft is unusually deep at positions of need. In terms of WR, this class is exceptionally deep and there will be plenty of talent later in rd1, on day-2, and on day-3. I'm also willing to bet that next year's draft will once again be incredibly deep with WR talent. They're a dime a dozen these days. They've become the new RB.
Another reason why I think we should trade back is because we only have six picks. The idea of potentially "wasting" a day-2 or day-3 pick on a QB when we only have six picks nauseates me. That said, the only thing that nauseates me more is the idea of having to pay DJ nearly $50M again in 2025. Trade back and get as many picks as possible.
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 11, 2024 10:36:15 GMT -5
It’s a theoretical discussion: are franchise altering QBs developed, innately talented, or both?
My opinion is with such a shitty success ratio, the logical explanation is great franchise QBs appear in the middle of a perfect storm: great coach, good roster, great work ethic, great talent.
Remove any one of those elements and you can ruin the future of a QB.
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Post by Nite on Apr 11, 2024 15:08:34 GMT -5
Great, building a roster w/o a qb? Sure that is like building a early 70s muscle car with a chevy vega engine. You have 'weapons' that your current starting QB can't get the ball to or can't due to being chased all the time. It would be almost useless. You can't compare that to other teams as the 49ers have Purdy and before him they had Garrappolo and before him, Alex Smith. Not HoF ers but decent QBs nonetheless (or more). So they did have a good QB and was able to build a team around him
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 11, 2024 16:55:56 GMT -5
Great, building a roster w/o a qb? Sure that is like building a early 70s muscle car with a chevy vega engine. You have 'weapons' that your current starting QB can't get the ball to or can't due to being chased all the time. It would be almost useless. You can't compare that to other teams as the 49ers have Purdy and before him they had Garrappolo and before him, Alex Smith. Not HoF ers but decent QBs nonetheless (or more). So they did have a good QB and was able to build a team around him If your roster is good they aren't getting chased and have weapons at every level and a defense that gets the ball back to the offense teams are doing it this way instead of forcing a QB pick. |
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Post by Nite on Apr 11, 2024 17:52:13 GMT -5
Great, building a roster w/o a qb? Sure that is like building a early 70s muscle car with a chevy vega engine. You have 'weapons' that your current starting QB can't get the ball to or can't due to being chased all the time. It would be almost useless. You can't compare that to other teams as the 49ers have Purdy and before him they had Garrappolo and before him, Alex Smith. Not HoF ers but decent QBs nonetheless (or more). So they did have a good QB and was able to build a team around him If your roster is good they aren't getting chased and have weapons at every level and a defense that gets the ball back to the offense teams are doing it this way instead of forcing a QB pick. You are engaging in a circular argument. If we don't have an effective QB it won't matter. All QBs get pressured and their is no perfect roster. A good roster starts with a good QB. If you don't have a good QB then you are going nowhere fast. And waiting until your roster is perfect will ensure mediocrity |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 11, 2024 17:59:18 GMT -5
If your roster is good they aren't getting chased and have weapons at every level and a defense that gets the ball back to the offense teams are doing it this way instead of forcing a QB pick. You are engaging in a circular argument. If we don't have an effective QB it won't matter. All QBs get pressured and their is no perfect roster. A good roster starts with a good QB. If you don't have a good QB then you are going nowhere fast. And waiting until your roster is perfect will ensure mediocrity And drafting a QB to draft one got this roster the last 5 years if they are sure and believe in one of these guys go for it but right now it doesn't look like the right guy is gonna fall to them at 6 so now we are looking at QB 5 or 6 in this draft and even at 6 we are looking at QB4. |
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Post by Nite on Apr 11, 2024 18:04:52 GMT -5
You are engaging in a circular argument. If we don't have an effective QB it won't matter. All QBs get pressured and their is no perfect roster. A good roster starts with a good QB. If you don't have a good QB then you are going nowhere fast. And waiting until your roster is perfect will ensure mediocrity And drafting a QB to draft one got this roster the last 5 years if they are sure and believe in one of these guys go for it but right now it doesn't look like the right guy is gonna fall to them at 6 so now we are looking at QB 5 or 6 in this draft and even at 6 we are looking at QB4. No one knows how good a QB will be in the pros. But what I do know is that what we have right now is not acceptable for a aspirational team. If there is one that Schoen and co like then he should take him. You are assuming that Schoen will just draft any QB, that is not true, the top 5 college QBs are in my opinion better than what we have right now, so not taking one will ensure many more years of mediocrity |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 11, 2024 18:13:05 GMT -5
And drafting a QB to draft one got this roster the last 5 years if they are sure and believe in one of these guys go for it but right now it doesn't look like the right guy is gonna fall to them at 6 so now we are looking at QB 5 or 6 in this draft and even at 6 we are looking at QB4. No one knows how good a QB will be in the pros. But what I do know is that what we have right now is not acceptable for a aspirational team. If there is one that Schoen and co like then he should take him. You are assuming that Schoen will just draft any QB, that is not true, the top 5 college QBs are in my opinion better than what we have right now, so not taking one will ensure many more years of mediocrity Not sure about the top 5 being better maybe the top 3 Penix is a statue he will be in the tub think JJ has a chance to be as good or better I said if he likes one he should take one but if it's outside the top 3 I'll even go 4 he better be right. The shine is coming off this latest vaunted QB class pretty fast. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 11, 2024 18:23:59 GMT -5
The other thing to keep in mind if a QB falls to 6 more than likely the position players they pass on are gonna be graded a lot higher than that QB.
Most big boards have Williams as the #1 over all pick after that the other 3 are spread out sometimes in the top 5 other times outside the top10.
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Post by Nite on Apr 11, 2024 18:51:45 GMT -5
No one knows how good a QB will be in the pros. But what I do know is that what we have right now is not acceptable for a aspirational team. If there is one that Schoen and co like then he should take him. You are assuming that Schoen will just draft any QB, that is not true, the top 5 college QBs are in my opinion better than what we have right now, so not taking one will ensure many more years of mediocrity Not sure about the top 5 being better maybe the top 3 Penix is a statue he will be in the tub think JJ has a chance to be as good or better I said if he likes one he should take one but if it's outside the top 3 I'll even go 4 he better be right. The shine is coming off this latest vaunted QB class pretty fast. You, me and all the 'experts' have NO idea how good any of these QBs will be, however I still think that if one that is deemed to be a starter caliber QB then Schoen should get him. Or to put it another way - not getting him is GM malpractice and unless Jones magically turns into Dan Marino he should be fired if he doesn't. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 11, 2024 19:00:51 GMT -5
Not sure about the top 5 being better maybe the top 3 Penix is a statue he will be in the tub think JJ has a chance to be as good or better I said if he likes one he should take one but if it's outside the top 3 I'll even go 4 he better be right. The shine is coming off this latest vaunted QB class pretty fast. You, me and all the 'experts' have NO idea how good any of these QBs will be, however I still think that if one that is deemed to be a starter caliber QB then Schoen should get him. Or to put it another way - not getting him is GM malpractice and unless Jones magically turns into Dan Marino he should be fired if he doesn't. Problem is several are getting the not sure how much translates to the NFL game like Warner said with Daniels he is not gonna see the same route combo over and over playing catch with Nabers. Don't think I don't want a QB I do, but I want the right one this time and teh more i see and read there seem to be more holes being punched in these guys games and not small holes big ones. |
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Post by Nite on Apr 12, 2024 8:25:23 GMT -5
You, me and all the 'experts' have NO idea how good any of these QBs will be, however I still think that if one that is deemed to be a starter caliber QB then Schoen should get him. Or to put it another way - not getting him is GM malpractice and unless Jones magically turns into Dan Marino he should be fired if he doesn't. Problem is several are getting the not sure how much translates to the NFL game like Warner said with Daniels he is not gonna see the same route combo over and over playing catch with Nabers. Don't think I don't want a QB I do, but I want the right one this time and teh more i see and read there seem to be more holes being punched in these guys games and not small holes big ones. Paralysis by analysis.... As a mentor friend use to tell me..... We don't know which one is right however the FO might.. These 'experts' most of time are full of sh**. All this 'expert' analysis before taking a single NFL snap lol.. I have no idea why you and others put some much stock into them. They are entertainment, dumb entertainment at that |
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 12, 2024 8:59:35 GMT -5
Great, building a roster w/o a qb? Sure that is like building a early 70s muscle car with a chevy vega engine. You have 'weapons' that your current starting QB can't get the ball to or can't due to being chased all the time. It would be almost useless. You can't compare that to other teams as the 49ers have Purdy and before him they had Garrappolo and before him, Alex Smith. Not HoF ers but decent QBs nonetheless (or more). So they did have a good QB and was able to build a team around him This team needs a quarterback like we need air.. For years we have been suffocating to the point that the lack of oxygen has left us brain dead. Instead of the suits breathing new life into us. They force fed us a bunch of bullshit as they put a vent down our throat. This isn’t the time to play possum.. To fix a problem you have to admit you have one. For two years now we have attacked positions of need across the board. And yet our roster as a whole has nothing but holes in it. I couldn’t care less about what the nobodies and the wash women think about these young guns. An amputee would be an upgrade over what we got. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 12, 2024 9:18:06 GMT -5
Problem is several are getting the not sure how much translates to the NFL game like Warner said with Daniels he is not gonna see the same route combo over and over playing catch with Nabers. Don't think I don't want a QB I do, but I want the right one this time and teh more i see and read there seem to be more holes being punched in these guys games and not small holes big ones. Paralysis by analysis.... As a mentor friend use to tell me..... We don't know which one is right however the FO might.. These 'experts' most of time are full of sh**. All this 'expert' analysis before taking a single NFL snap lol.. I have no idea why you and others put some much stock into them. They are entertainment, dumb entertainment at that If Schoen drafts one I'm rooting fro him and on board out of all the guys being talked up maybe 2 or 3 are gonna be true franchise QBs if you go by percentages and even look back at 2018 the other thing It might be Penix and Rattler or Nix that are the ones who exceed and succeed. I do trust Warner more than the guys who haven't played the position and who really might not understand what the QB is doing in the offense he is running. |
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Post by shocknaweny on Apr 13, 2024 9:27:07 GMT -5
If Schoen has chosen Drake Maye as his preferred QB option which I highly suspect to be the case then you pay whatever it takes to move up to 3rd overall with NE if Drake Maye is sitting there and you hope to god you are right
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Post by McCherry on Apr 13, 2024 16:40:39 GMT -5
A lot of teams have been doing this. I look at the niners Purdy is nice but If he were on a lesser team he would be just another guy.
I think a team like the Giants are better off drafting high end talent once completed they can trade 2 or 3 high end draft assets to go up and get a guy that can work with a really good team. I used to think that, I don't anymore. I think that by the numbers and by performance, Purdy has proven his place among the best QB's in the NFL right now. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 13, 2024 19:45:00 GMT -5
A lot of teams have been doing this. I look at the niners Purdy is nice but If he were on a lesser team he would be just another guy.
I think a team like the Giants are better off drafting high end talent once completed they can trade 2 or 3 high end draft assets to go up and get a guy that can work with a really good team. I used to think that, I don't anymore. I think that by the numbers and by performance, Purdy has proven his place among the best QB's in the NFL right now. I think you put him where he is being chased every play and hit he more than likely would struggle time helps guys process. |
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Post by Roswell on Apr 14, 2024 7:32:32 GMT -5
I used to think that, I don't anymore. I think that by the numbers and by performance, Purdy has proven his place among the best QB's in the NFL right now. I think you put him where he is being chased every play and hit he more than likely would struggle time helps guys process. There isn’t a QB in the history of the NFL that would’ve survived the Giant Oline last year. That said, they do need to develop a QB. If not this year, due to contract and roster circumstances, then certainly next year. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 14, 2024 7:49:13 GMT -5
Weren’t the awful Giants were picking #4 overall b/c they had an awful roster and then traded a lot for Eli Manning?
no idea what the Giants are going to do yet all these theories, how to build a roster, the KC model, the XYZ model, etc have all been executed by the Giants over the years.
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Post by jaymas on Apr 14, 2024 9:20:45 GMT -5
But the 9ers didn't purposely "build a roster and then get Purdy," they attempted several times to get a long-term answer with big contracts and then draft capital.
They 9ers are a great org, but there's a little luck to Purdy. Good on them for drafting him, but he was not the plan.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 14, 2024 9:36:27 GMT -5
But the 9ers didn't purposely "build a roster and then get Purdy," they attempted several times to get a long-term answer with big contracts and then draft capital. They 9ers are a great org, but there's a little luck to Purdy. Good on them for drafting him, but he was not the plan. Football is 70 percent preparation 30 percent luck. The fact Purdy developed faster than Love made the choice easy. I thought they made it to the Superbowl with Garopollo also? |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 14, 2024 10:33:09 GMT -5
I think you put him where he is being chased every play and hit he more than likely would struggle time helps guys process. There isn’t a QB in the history of the NFL that would’ve survived the Giant Oline last year. That said, they do need to develop a QB. If not this year, due to contract and roster circumstances, then certainly next year. I want a QB as soon as possible just not sure it will line up this year at 6 |
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Post by jaymas on Apr 14, 2024 10:43:11 GMT -5
But the 9ers didn't purposely "build a roster and then get Purdy," they attempted several times to get a long-term answer with big contracts and then draft capital. They 9ers are a great org, but there's a little luck to Purdy. Good on them for drafting him, but he was not the plan. Football is 70 percent preparation 30 percent luck. The fact Purdy developed faster than Love made the choice easy. I thought they made it to the Superbowl with Garopollo also? They did, but also gave up on him pretty quickly into that contract when they gave up a lot to get Lance. |
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 14, 2024 13:38:49 GMT -5
Football is 70 percent preparation 30 percent luck. The fact Purdy developed faster than Love made the choice easy. I thought they made it to the Superbowl with Garopollo also? They did, but also gave up on him pretty quickly into that contract when they gave up a lot to get Lance. He started there for 6 years. As long as DJ plus he was a Superbowl QB. So I don't buy that they gave up on him quickly. 2 out of the 3 QBs they picked went to the Superbowl. Even the 2 years they "gave up on so quickly" after his injury they still had double digit win seasons. So to they built a good team and had double digit wins with a QB they gave up on for 2 years and still won with a seventh rounder after thier first rounder was slow to develop. Think about it this way. They went to 2 superbowls with 2 different QBs and 4 conference champion games with 3 different QBs in the the last 5 years. The 49ers offense is purposely built to be good with different QBs. |
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Post by giantbob71 on Apr 14, 2024 14:20:19 GMT -5
Talk is great, but if Schoen is going to build a "great roster", what's he waiting for? He's churned the roster, only a few Gettleman players remain (those chosen by Schoen) and the Gettleman cap issues are gone...replaced by Schoen cap issues.
It's been 2 years...the Giants still have cap issues, are dealing with a bad trade, aeesuffering through bad contracts, and still have a terrible roster.
I keep hearing how most on here have faith in Schoen...just wondering what it's based on? This team is no better off, after 2 years.
It's one thing to say the Giants need to build a great roster...shouldn't it already be happening? Is this a 6 year tryout for Schoen too?
When Schoen took over, most on here agreed it would be a 2-3 year rebuild. We're approaching year 3, and most agree this team will struggle to have a winning record, OLine is still a question mark, zero playmakers on offense, just wasted $100+ million on a QB, depth is still a major issue, and the secondary is much worse.
Better get to building...
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