PFF draft analysis: Daniels, McCarthy, DJones...etc

[bigblueones]

I'm home with the flu so spending stupid time looking at PFF draft grades.  Never really delved in before.  I'm a huge Jayden Daniels fan and would love to get him, ain't happening.  McCarthy has me concerned if we jump.  But then I looked at DJ's 2019 draft analysis and my God, what were we thinking?  It stated right in the opening paragraph, "He's a QB likely to be over drafted."  In addition, he forces throws, hangs onto the ball too long..etc.  I know scouts go much deeper but now looking back an using my amazing 2020 hindsight, we F'd up.  I think if we get a QB it's likely to be McCarthy, but I can't say he doesn't have concerns too.  Seems like he would need a very good QB coach to get his throws outside of the numbers and long ball better.  Suddenly I like Drew Locke a bit better knowing he's at least there.  

[vinnie]

By “we” you mean David f’in Gettleman. A good percentage of Giants fans were furious when DG drafted Jones, myself included. I’m no QB scout and didn’t even have to read the reports to know how bad he sucked, all I had to do was watch the majority of his games his senior year. Hard worker, nice guy but a well below average QB on the grid iron. The Giants seem to have a problem falling love with a players personality over their skill (in a lot of cases, not all). Not to mention how much value they put on David Cutliffe’s worthless opinion due to their obsession with the Manning family. It’s actually disturbing.

[DJones19]

Which guy would you select from the below given the scouting reports?

Mahomes draft profile:
Analysis: Calling Mahomes a project is a major understatement. He’s nowhere near ready to play in the NFL. And, honestly, he may never be. Between his inconsistent accuracy due to poor mechanics, his tendency to bail from clean pockets and his lack of field vision, he’s going to leave as many big plays on the field as he creates. This was a risky pick.
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Josh Allen draft profile:
he’s a developmental project who is a long way from being an NFL-ready starter. His best bet is to land somewhere he can sit and learn behind an entrenched veteran for at least a year. I wouldn’t consider him until Day 2, but his potential will likely have him off the board in the first round.

He has accuracy issues and can miss on throws that should be easy completions. His ball security and decision-making need a lot of work as well. He threw too many interceptions over the past few seasons. Improving his accuracy and decision-making are the critical points of emphasis.

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Josh Rosen draft profile:
Tennis prodigy with impeccable footwork and delivery balance. Plays with excellent coordination between eyes and feet. Gets head around quickly on play-fakes. Has experience under center. Anchors in pocket and doesn't creep around needlessly. Trusts his protection and doesn't take eyes of targets when pressure mounts from the edge. Climbs pocket when appropriate. Willing to stand and deliver in face of pressure. Holds his water in pocket. Mechanics are terrific. Rarely over-strides and throws with consistently bent front knee. Throwing motion and follow-through are effortless. Extremely confident and intelligent. Throws receivers open. Might be best back shoulder thrower in the game. Shows ability to speed up operation time for move to next level. Very good usage of shoulder fakes and hitches to move defenders or buy additional time for receivers to uncover. Touch passer who can throw feathers when needed.

Jim Mora: Josh Rosen ‘same guy’ as Peyton Manning in work ethic, football intelligence

[piddy283]

Unfortunately, hindsight was not needed in DJ's case.  He was an average prospect coming out of college, and many of us hated the pick at the time.  I remember comparing him to a more athletic Ryan Finley, and I didn't think Finley should've been considered a NFL talent. 

Regarding Daniels, I'm finding myself becoming more and more concerned with his frame the closer we get to the draft.  Simply put, I have a hard time believing he's going to last a full season let alone a full career.  Granted, I had the same concerns with Lamar when he came out of college but he doesn't take the hits the way Daniels does.  He also has a thicker frame to help withstand the few hits he does take. 

If we could remove the risk of injury Daniels would be my QB2.  He has a legit trump card with that speed.  Unfortunately, the risk of injury is real and when you consider his frame and his style of play I'd say it should be expected. 

ESPN did a mock last night where we ended up grabbing Nabers at #6 and trading up in rd2 for Nix.  I'm not a big fan of trading up, but the idea of walking away from this draft with Nabers & Nix would be near the top of my wish list.  I think Nabers has elite level YAC capabilities, and I think Nix has the experience and tools to compete for the starting job day-1. 

[Kruunch]

Who the hell in their right mind is looking over Daniel Jones draft analysis.. You want to get better, right? I mean it’s a good way to flush the system out since you will be bleeding out of all of your orifices. And whatever is lingering in your intestines will surely leave as it could only stomach those lowlights for so long. We didn’t **** up.. Fans have no skin in the game. The Giants did.

And just when you think they would cut the cord and watch the mutant offspring drag another franchise to the abyss. We willingly paid him.. and threw in an injury clause. We’re still trying to pick up our jocks as we got pantsed in front of the whole world.. twice. If none of these quarterbacks move the needle for you.. Try putting it into your arm next time. Don’t mind the dragon.. he comes and goes.

[jaymas]

Apr 16, 2024 10:49:21 GMT -5 DJones19 said:

Which guy would you select from the below given the scouting reports?

Mahomes draft profile:
Analysis: Calling Mahomes a project is a major understatement. He’s nowhere near ready to play in the NFL. And, honestly, he may never be. Between his inconsistent accuracy due to poor mechanics, his tendency to bail from clean pockets and his lack of field vision, he’s going to leave as many big plays on the field as he creates. This was a risky pick.
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Josh Allen draft profile:
he’s a developmental project who is a long way from being an NFL-ready starter. His best bet is to land somewhere he can sit and learn behind an entrenched veteran for at least a year. I wouldn’t consider him until Day 2, but his potential will likely have him off the board in the first round.

He has accuracy issues and can miss on throws that should be easy completions. His ball security and decision-making need a lot of work as well. He threw too many interceptions over the past few seasons. Improving his accuracy and decision-making are the critical points of emphasis.

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Josh Rosen draft profile:
Tennis prodigy with impeccable footwork and delivery balance. Plays with excellent coordination between eyes and feet. Gets head around quickly on play-fakes. Has experience under center. Anchors in pocket and doesn't creep around needlessly. Trusts his protection and doesn't take eyes of targets when pressure mounts from the edge. Climbs pocket when appropriate. Willing to stand and deliver in face of pressure. Holds his water in pocket. Mechanics are terrific. Rarely over-strides and throws with consistently bent front knee. Throwing motion and follow-through are effortless. Extremely confident and intelligent. Throws receivers open. Might be best back shoulder thrower in the game. Shows ability to speed up operation time for move to next level. Very good usage of shoulder fakes and hitches to move defenders or buy additional time for receivers to uncover. Touch passer who can throw feathers when needed.

Jim Mora: Josh Rosen ‘same guy’ as Peyton Manning in work ethic, football intelligence

Loled at that. Not that it hasn't gotten better and maybe the assessment made sense at the time, it's just hilarious he's the best at this in the entire NFL.

[myronguyton29]

Apr 16, 2024 10:49:21 GMT -5 DJones19 said:

Which guy would you select from the below given the scouting reports?

Mahomes draft profile:
Analysis: Calling Mahomes a project is a major understatement. He’s nowhere near ready to play in the NFL. And, honestly, he may never be. Between his inconsistent accuracy due to poor mechanics, his tendency to bail from clean pockets and his lack of field vision, he’s going to leave as many big plays on the field as he creates. This was a risky pick.
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Josh Allen draft profile:
he’s a developmental project who is a long way from being an NFL-ready starter. His best bet is to land somewhere he can sit and learn behind an entrenched veteran for at least a year. I wouldn’t consider him until Day 2, but his potential will likely have him off the board in the first round.

He has accuracy issues and can miss on throws that should be easy completions. His ball security and decision-making need a lot of work as well. He threw too many interceptions over the past few seasons. Improving his accuracy and decision-making are the critical points of emphasis.

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Josh Rosen draft profile:
Tennis prodigy with impeccable footwork and delivery balance. Plays with excellent coordination between eyes and feet. Gets head around quickly on play-fakes. Has experience under center. Anchors in pocket and doesn't creep around needlessly. Trusts his protection and doesn't take eyes of targets when pressure mounts from the edge. Climbs pocket when appropriate. Willing to stand and deliver in face of pressure. Holds his water in pocket. Mechanics are terrific. Rarely over-strides and throws with consistently bent front knee. Throwing motion and follow-through are effortless. Extremely confident and intelligent. Throws receivers open. Might be best back shoulder thrower in the game. Shows ability to speed up operation time for move to next level. Very good usage of shoulder fakes and hitches to move defenders or buy additional time for receivers to uncover. Touch passer who can throw feathers when needed.

Jim Mora: Josh Rosen ‘same guy’ as Peyton Manning in work ethic, football intelligence

lol lmao

[Nick6475]

Apr 16, 2024 10:49:21 GMT -5 DJones19 said:

Which guy would you select from the below given the scouting reports?

Mahomes draft profile:
Analysis: Calling Mahomes a project is a major understatement. He’s nowhere near ready to play in the NFL. And, honestly, he may never be. Between his inconsistent accuracy due to poor mechanics, his tendency to bail from clean pockets and his lack of field vision, he’s going to leave as many big plays on the field as he creates. This was a risky pick.
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=====================================================================================

Josh Allen draft profile:
he’s a developmental project who is a long way from being an NFL-ready starter. His best bet is to land somewhere he can sit and learn behind an entrenched veteran for at least a year. I wouldn’t consider him until Day 2, but his potential will likely have him off the board in the first round.

He has accuracy issues and can miss on throws that should be easy completions. His ball security and decision-making need a lot of work as well. He threw too many interceptions over the past few seasons. Improving his accuracy and decision-making are the critical points of emphasis.

=====================================================================================
=====================================================================================


Josh Rosen draft profile:
Tennis prodigy with impeccable footwork and delivery balance. Plays with excellent coordination between eyes and feet. Gets head around quickly on play-fakes. Has experience under center. Anchors in pocket and doesn't creep around needlessly. Trusts his protection and doesn't take eyes of targets when pressure mounts from the edge. Climbs pocket when appropriate. Willing to stand and deliver in face of pressure. Holds his water in pocket. Mechanics are terrific. Rarely over-strides and throws with consistently bent front knee. Throwing motion and follow-through are effortless. Extremely confident and intelligent. Throws receivers open. Might be best back shoulder thrower in the game. Shows ability to speed up operation time for move to next level. Very good usage of shoulder fakes and hitches to move defenders or buy additional time for receivers to uncover. Touch passer who can throw feathers when needed.

Jim Mora: Josh Rosen ‘same guy’ as Peyton Manning in work ethic, football intelligence

This reads like you grabbed the weaknesses part of the evaluation from Mahomes/Allen and the strengths from Rosen.

[ratbastich]

Apr 16, 2024 13:09:28 GMT -5 Nick6475 said:

Apr 16, 2024 10:49:21 GMT -5 DJones19 said:

Which guy would you select from the below given the scouting reports?

Mahomes draft profile:
Analysis: Calling Mahomes a project is a major understatement. He’s nowhere near ready to play in the NFL. And, honestly, he may never be. Between his inconsistent accuracy due to poor mechanics, his tendency to bail from clean pockets and his lack of field vision, he’s going to leave as many big plays on the field as he creates. This was a risky pick.
=====================================================================================
=====================================================================================

Josh Allen draft profile:
he’s a developmental project who is a long way from being an NFL-ready starter. His best bet is to land somewhere he can sit and learn behind an entrenched veteran for at least a year. I wouldn’t consider him until Day 2, but his potential will likely have him off the board in the first round.

He has accuracy issues and can miss on throws that should be easy completions. His ball security and decision-making need a lot of work as well. He threw too many interceptions over the past few seasons. Improving his accuracy and decision-making are the critical points of emphasis.

=====================================================================================
=====================================================================================


Josh Rosen draft profile:
Tennis prodigy with impeccable footwork and delivery balance. Plays with excellent coordination between eyes and feet. Gets head around quickly on play-fakes. Has experience under center. Anchors in pocket and doesn't creep around needlessly. Trusts his protection and doesn't take eyes of targets when pressure mounts from the edge. Climbs pocket when appropriate. Willing to stand and deliver in face of pressure. Holds his water in pocket. Mechanics are terrific. Rarely over-strides and throws with consistently bent front knee. Throwing motion and follow-through are effortless. Extremely confident and intelligent. Throws receivers open. Might be best back shoulder thrower in the game. Shows ability to speed up operation time for move to next level. Very good usage of shoulder fakes and hitches to move defenders or buy additional time for receivers to uncover. Touch passer who can throw feathers when needed.

Jim Mora: Josh Rosen ‘same guy’ as Peyton Manning in work ethic, football intelligence

This reads like you grabbed the weaknesses part of the evaluation from Mahomes/Allen and the strengths from Rosen.

Draft profiles are always all over the place...look at this one for Mahomes from Walter Football:

The writer projects him as a second-round guy with an NFL executive projecting him as a fourth-round guy and player comparisons to Jay Cutler/Derek Carr...it happens. Just shows that no one knows until these guys get on the field and start playing, even NFL execs.


walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2017pmahomes.php

[bigblueones]

I'm not a Bo Nix fan at all. I'd take Penix over him but I don't think he's falling to R2. I think Nabers and an OL look tempting right now as much I want a QB. Who here would wager that Lock will replace Daniels before years end? Either due to performance or injury?

[DJones19]

Apr 16, 2024 13:09:28 GMT -5 Nick6475 said:

Apr 16, 2024 10:49:21 GMT -5 DJones19 said:

Which guy would you select from the below given the scouting reports?
....
...
...

This reads like you grabbed the weaknesses part of the evaluation from Mahomes/Allen and the strengths from Rosen.

True but Josh Rosen definitely had the highest consensus grade by far out of Mahomes, Allen, and Jones.
The NFL website still has their pre-draft scores for each player online.
Jones has the same pre-draft grade as Mahomes.

Rosen and Jones got Peyton Manning comparisons during the pre-draft process. Not so much with Mahomes and Allen, Allen was known as an innaccurate gunslinger. But...I do remember Mahomes getting a Favre from Gruden..and also a lot of 2nd round+ grades. Jets fans were pumped up they landed Darnold instead of Allen who they called a running back, not a QB due to the pre-draft narrative.

Jones got the Peyton Manning comparison from Gil Brandt.

"I. Love. Dan Jones," Brandt said Saturday on a teleconference for Sirius XM Radio. "I have to say this carefully: When you watch him and you go back (20) years and watch Peyton Manning, you are watching the same guy. He's athletic. He doesn't have a rocket for an arm, but neither did Peyton. Very smart."

[DJones19]

Wonder what happened to DJ. I see a lot of weaknesses that people say DJ has listed as strengths in his pre-draft profile.

Ability to read defenses, works through progressions, throws a good deep ball, throws guys open, etc.

Strengths:
Above-average accuracy
Throws a good deep ball
Intelligent
Shows the ability to read defenses
Knows where his receivers are on each play
Moves his eyes
Works through his progression
Can throw receivers open
Can push the ball downfield
Can throw a fastball into tight windows
Good height
Able to loft in touch passes
Throws a very catchable ball
Stands tall in the pocket despite the rush
Good field vision at times
Has more mobility than many realize
Can buy time or pick up yards on the ground
Good size for a NFL starting quarterback
Upside

[TCHOF]

Apr 19, 2024 12:44:56 GMT -5 DJones19 said:

Wonder what happened to DJ. I see a lot of weaknesses that people say DJ has listed as strengths in his pre-draft profile.

Ability to read defenses, works through progressions, throws a good deep ball, throws guys open, etc.

Strengths:
Above-average accuracy
Throws a good deep ball
Intelligent
Shows the ability to read defenses
Knows where his receivers are on each play
Moves his eyes
Works through his progression
Can throw receivers open
Can push the ball downfield
Can throw a fastball into tight windows
Good height
Able to loft in touch passes
Throws a very catchable ball
Stands tall in the pocket despite the rush
Good field vision at times
Has more mobility than many realize
Can buy time or pick up yards on the ground
Good size for a NFL starting quarterback
Upside

Now provide the weaknesses

[DJones19]

Apr 19, 2024 12:47:05 GMT -5 TCHOF said:

Apr 19, 2024 12:44:56 GMT -5 DJones19 said:

Wonder what happened to DJ. I see a lot of weaknesses that people say DJ has listed as strengths in his pre-draft profile.

Ability to read defenses, works through progressions, throws a good deep ball, throws guys open, etc.

Strengths:
Above-average accuracy
Throws a good deep ball
Intelligent
Shows the ability to read defenses
Knows where his receivers are on each play
Moves his eyes
Works through his progression
Can throw receivers open
Can push the ball downfield
Can throw a fastball into tight windows
Good height
Able to loft in touch passes
Throws a very catchable ball
Stands tall in the pocket despite the rush
Good field vision at times
Has more mobility than many realize
Can buy time or pick up yards on the ground
Good size for a NFL starting quarterback
Upside

Now provide the weaknesses

Weaknesses:
Will throw into coverage that he shouldn’t
Needs to improve timing
Holds the ball too long
Could shorten his delivery
Broken collarbone in 2018

[inconvenientruth]

Apr 19, 2024 12:44:56 GMT -5 DJones19 said:

Wonder what happened to DJ. I see a lot of weaknesses that people say DJ has listed as strengths in his pre-draft profile.

Ability to read defenses, works through progressions, throws a good deep ball, throws guys open, etc.

Strengths:
Above-average accuracy
Throws a good deep ball
Intelligent
Shows the ability to read defenses
Knows where his receivers are on each play
Moves his eyes
Works through his progression
Can throw receivers open
Can push the ball downfield
Can throw a fastball into tight windows
Good height
Able to loft in touch passes
Throws a very catchable ball
Stands tall in the pocket despite the rush
Good field vision at times
Has more mobility than many realize
Can buy time or pick up yards on the ground
Good size for a NFL starting quarterback
Upside

None of these are strengths, but weaknesses.

His only strength is he's tall. and that he "can" do things, but doesn't, consistently. So not a real strength. 

Relative to good QBs, DJ is largely shit in everything you listed above, other than being Tall, and running ability. 

Which is why we are where we are, but your lack of understanding this helps me understand why you think what you do. If what you're saying is true, there is no way in hell JS and co would be looking to add a QB in the draft. 

[inconvenientruth]

Apr 19, 2024 12:49:10 GMT -5 DJones19 said:

Apr 19, 2024 12:47:05 GMT -5 TCHOF said:

Now provide the weaknesses

Weaknesses:
Will throw into coverage that he shouldn’t
Needs to improve timing
Holds the ball too long
Could shorten his delivery
Broken collarbone in 2018

his arm mechanics, i.e, his delivery. Is fine, its actually pretty quick/efficient. 

The problem is he has is that he has no ability to throw the ball with alternate angles/launch points (i.e arm talent). So when he's pressured, its basically a rap. He looks to run rather than keep his eyes downfield.