Just thought about this in regards to Schoen/Dabs job securi

[Roswell]

Apr 21, 2024 13:35:22 GMT -5 SG88 said:

I get what you're saying. Excuses are over once a player gets the 💰. This isn't exclusive to our QB situation.

I’ve tried but I’ll never understand this logic.  Expectations are great but unless the supporting cast improves then the QB with the higher paycheck doesn’t play better.  Nor should he be expected to.

Team game.  If the Oline sucks, the QB play suffers.  And the Giants had just about the worst Oline I’ve ever seen in the first half of the season.  Neal and Ezudu as tackles?  A rookie center?  Soft guards?  No one played well.  We can put 90% of it on Jones f you want but that would be wrong.

His play two years ago was good enough to get them into the playoffs.  If he gets a similar level of support, and is healthy, they should be a competitive team again.  

The biggest legitimate argument his detractors have is not his salary.  It’s his record vs the Eagles and Cowboys.  Thats the argument that holds water.  But again, the Giants have a tremendous talent disparity. 

He will hopefully get 6-8 games to show what he can do with an improved line and a true #1 WR.  If he shows, he throws.  If he blows, he goes.

[IrishMike]

Apr 22, 2024 6:01:10 GMT -5 Roswell said:

Apr 21, 2024 13:35:22 GMT -5 SG88 said:

I get what you're saying. Excuses are over once a player gets the 💰. This isn't exclusive to our QB situation.

I’ve tried but I’ll never understand this logic.  Expectations are great but unless the supporting cast improves then the QB with the higher paycheck doesn’t play better.  Nor should he be expected to.

Team game.  If the Oline sucks, the QB play suffers.  And the Giants had just about the worst Oline I’ve ever seen in the first half of the season.  Neal and Ezudu as tackles?  A rookie center?  Soft guards?  No one played well.  We can put 90% of it on Jones f you want but that would be wrong.

His play two years ago was good enough to get them into the playoffs.  If he gets a similar level of support, and is healthy, they should be a competitive team again.  

The biggest legitimate argument his detractors have is not his salary.  It’s his record vs the Eagles and Cowboys.  Thats the argument that holds water.  But again, the Giants have a tremendous talent disparity. 

He will hopefully get 6-8 games to show what he can do with an improved line and a true #1 WR.  If he shows, he throws.  If he blows, he goes.

Well said. Don't forget what Schoen said as well, our disaster of a season was more about injuries than talent. Schoen and Daboll were both part of the Bills when Allen went from "poor choice" to top 5 QB in the league overnight. A big part of that was adding a #1 WR to the roster. They clearly believe Jones has the talent and they know the impact a #1 WR can have. It just makes all the sense in the world that they try to repeat that success here.

The only reason I can see them going QB is because Jones' injury history. That's a concern. IMO that's why Lock was brought in. A lot of talent there to work with as a back up plan.

[Jomo]

Apr 21, 2024 19:54:35 GMT -5 BigBlueDog42 said:

Apr 21, 2024 15:00:57 GMT -5 TEM said:

The league has no patience. It is a what have you done for me lately league. It is simple win or spin.

Thats why the Giants are on this football hell ride for 10 years now instability from the top through the coaching staff and through the roster, they crave and need stability and patience.

This team made the palyoffs 2022 and had an injury riddled 2023 think they need and deserve more time and so do we know one is turning this ship around in 3 or 4 years. 

One other problem and probably the biggest one is STABILITY at the very top. He's the only one who has been here through all these iterations of franchise misery. He is the common denominator on our failures.

[cdngfan]

If you’re talking to GMs and owners, probably 25 of 32 teams have a QB issue. Meaning they don’t have a championship calibre QB. Case in point, the Falcons have improved their QB situation, but Cousins isn’t a championship calibre QB. How many years passed between Jim Kelly and Josh Allen? Stafford won a championship, what has he done for that franchise since? So what is he?

Increasingly I see these discussions about QBs as teenagers fantasizing about dating a hot celebrity. Of course aim high. If you don’t aim for the best you’ll never get the best right?. At what point does probability start to matter in actual action plans?

I hate all or nothing mindsets. But I’ll use it to illustrate a point. If they draft a “great” QB but the o line sucks in 24 and 25, Joe won’t be able to keep his job. It’s beyond an irritant with our owner.

If the o line improves in 24 and actually looks better than decent in 25’, but we’re playing some retooled vet as a starter at QB, Joe has a exponentially better chance at keeping his job.

I don’t think that means he won’t draft a QB. I think it means he’ll let the unfolding draft board let him know who he gets or doesn’t get. I don’t think there’s a scenario where he moves heaven and earth for a QB.

Final point, I think the fact he signed DJ at this point means nothing to how they use him. I don’t think JS is afraid at all to stand in front of his boss and say that contract was a mistake. Playing DJ at this point is like using a rook or knight or bishop. You don’t want to lose the piece, it has value, but it’s just a piece. You’ll sacrifice it for the greater good.

[Nite]

Apr 21, 2024 13:20:44 GMT -5 myronguyton29 said:

The thing about the whole thing and for yall saying move up to draft a qb here's my take I just thought of. For what they payed Jones ( and even though they have an out), they want him to be the guy and they want to see if he still can be especially after paying him. We saw 2022 and we saw 2023. A lot of factors came into play with his overall performance ( not excusing himself at all, but.....) and so I know our entire regime knows and still want to see what the guy can do without a shit show O line and the beating. We all want to see so there WILL BE NO MORE EXCUSES!!!!



Can we fix the O line and make significant progress toward rebuilding it THIS SEASON for what we have done thus far in FA and what we may do in the draft? We are in position to also give him for the first time a true no. 1 WR so if those 2 things come together then he really will have no more excuses at all. I'm very very curious to see those 2 things come together so we can decide rather our out for 2024 will need to be had..........



So with the regime wanting to see those things transpire I believe Schoen and Dabs have a green light to not have to move up to get a qb and if one's of their focus and their at 6 or either there in the 2nd or a move back up into the late 1st to get him or up in the 2nd to do so, then we do that. If not I think they know if they take the WR at 6 and continue to bolster the line, then 2025 will be looking much much better for Lock for another year or 2 till we draft that qb or let the guy we potentially take at 6 or up back up later in the 1st or early 2nd to get.

mainly for those saying if they rely on/hinge their potential career on Jones and because they paid him and if he doesn't get it done this year and they end up moving on from him, that they are gone............


Forgot to add that no one is saying Jones has to be Mahomes or even CJ Stroud but just functional and able to get the job done. For what he is we need him to be better and get the job done no doubt. If the O line is decently functional alas not letting guys just right out the gate get a free run around their ass or run thru them straight to the qb then we will get to see what all he can do. It's proven you can actually win in this league without a Mahomes. It's up to the GM to build a team that will be able to compete as a team as well. So yeah I think them getting Jones that protection, finally fixing it hopefully this year to where it's a functional line at least, we will definitely have our answer this season. I guess either way though he really only has this year to prove it.....

Geez how many more years are we going to give this guy? Its 5 years we know what we have..

Time to move on..

[myronguyton29]

Apr 22, 2024 8:58:41 GMT -5 Nite said:

Apr 21, 2024 13:20:44 GMT -5 myronguyton29 said:

The thing about the whole thing and for yall saying move up to draft a qb here's my take I just thought of. For what they payed Jones ( and even though they have an out), they want him to be the guy and they want to see if he still can be especially after paying him. We saw 2022 and we saw 2023. A lot of factors came into play with his overall performance ( not excusing himself at all, but.....) and so I know our entire regime knows and still want to see what the guy can do without a shit show O line and the beating. We all want to see so there WILL BE NO MORE EXCUSES!!!!



Can we fix the O line and make significant progress toward rebuilding it THIS SEASON for what we have done thus far in FA and what we may do in the draft? We are in position to also give him for the first time a true no. 1 WR so if those 2 things come together then he really will have no more excuses at all. I'm very very curious to see those 2 things come together so we can decide rather our out for 2024 will need to be had..........



So with the regime wanting to see those things transpire I believe Schoen and Dabs have a green light to not have to move up to get a qb and if one's of their focus and their at 6 or either there in the 2nd or a move back up into the late 1st to get him or up in the 2nd to do so, then we do that. If not I think they know if they take the WR at 6 and continue to bolster the line, then 2025 will be looking much much better for Lock for another year or 2 till we draft that qb or let the guy we potentially take at 6 or up back up later in the 1st or early 2nd to get.

mainly for those saying if they rely on/hinge their potential career on Jones and because they paid him and if he doesn't get it done this year and they end up moving on from him, that they are gone............


Forgot to add that no one is saying Jones has to be Mahomes or even CJ Stroud but just functional and able to get the job done. For what he is we need him to be better and get the job done no doubt. If the O line is decently functional alas not letting guys just right out the gate get a free run around their ass or run thru them straight to the qb then we will get to see what all he can do. It's proven you can actually win in this league without a Mahomes. It's up to the GM to build a team that will be able to compete as a team as well. So yeah I think them getting Jones that protection, finally fixing it hopefully this year to where it's a functional line at least, we will definitely have our answer this season. I guess either way though he really only has this year to prove it.....

Geez how many more years are we going to give this guy? Its 5 years we know what we have..

Time to move on..

this last one lol. That's why the out was put in place.....................

It's NOW or NEVER DJ, ...............

[McCherry]

Apr 21, 2024 19:46:47 GMT -5 IrishMike said:

The easiest way to keep a job is to win games...now. Personally I think the second they signed Lock they decided they were sticking with Jones over the kids in this class. This regime does not think Jones is a bad player, that's obvious; but they are worried about his health. Lock is a quality back up that can hold it down and win some games if Jones goes down. If that happens they keep their jobs and can move on next year.

Drafting a QB and not winning games this year puts people at risk of losing their jobs and that includes Schoen who would need to explain why they gave Jones what they did and skipped on securing a #1 WR and instead added a QB a year later.


Remember just about every single person saying they will/should go QB are people that don't think Jones is a good player. Our GM and HC think he's a good player.

I think Schoen/Daboll are clearly interested in QB's and they have re-iterated their faith in Jones. But as you said there is a durability concern. Believing in one thing doesn't preclude the other.

Personally, I think they are going to draft a QB, and I think Jones can play. But what I find interesting, is that many of the fans interesting who want to go WR at 6 aren't Jones fans. Which is baffling.

[cdngfan]

Apr 22, 2024 9:33:03 GMT -5 McCherry said:

Apr 21, 2024 19:46:47 GMT -5 IrishMike said:

The easiest way to keep a job is to win games...now. Personally I think the second they signed Lock they decided they were sticking with Jones over the kids in this class. This regime does not think Jones is a bad player, that's obvious; but they are worried about his health. Lock is a quality back up that can hold it down and win some games if Jones goes down. If that happens they keep their jobs and can move on next year.

Drafting a QB and not winning games this year puts people at risk of losing their jobs and that includes Schoen who would need to explain why they gave Jones what they did and skipped on securing a #1 WR and instead added a QB a year later.


Remember just about every single person saying they will/should go QB are people that don't think Jones is a good player. Our GM and HC think he's a good player.

I think Schoen/Daboll are clearly interested in QB's and they have re-iterated their faith in Jones. But as you said there is a durability concern. Believing in one thing doesn't preclude the other.

Personally, I think they are going to draft a QB, and I think Jones can play. But what I find interesting, is that many of the fans interesting who want to go WR at 6 aren't Jones fans. Which is baffling.

I’m one of those guys. The probability of one of those QBs turning out is so low I don’t look at a drafted QB as a solution to our QB problem. It’s a scratch ticket. So it’s a potential non-solution dressed up as a solution.

I always feel the need to point this out. This isn’t an argument to not draft a QB, it’s an argument to say you can still improve this team without drafting a QB. I don’t disagree with the idea that we should come away from this draft with a QB. But I’m not sure why someone has to answer for not drafting a QB in the 3rd round as an example. To me, a 3rd round QB is like a 6th round edge rusher. He’s just a guess from a really imperfect pile of options.

So I don’t think they’ll hesitate to draft a QB they like. I even think they’ll move up to do it.

But I don’t think they’ll walk away from this draft with a QB no matter what. I think they saw themselves win 6 games with virtual garbage at QB. Is it so hard to picture them winning 9 games with a better o line and a serious WR with the same garbage at QB?

Because you could spend your 1st and 2nd day picks on a move up for a QB and the kid is worse than what you already have.

No one is getting rewarded for the attempt.

[GameTime]

Apr 21, 2024 19:29:54 GMT -5 BigBlueDog42 said:

Apr 21, 2024 17:27:57 GMT -5 GameTime said:

he is back to square one with a very very short leash. The kid turned the corner in 2022 then he crapped himself in 2023.

Too bad

He will go as the protection goes and his play makers go he isn't gonn escape 2 or 3 rushers and make plays maybe 1 or 2 from time to time.

Just think it was different last year he was rattled and sped up in a bad way he was seeing ghost rushing throws with 0 pressure. 

he didnt look right from the very first game vs Dallas. 

I was like what happened to 2022?? 

The only time he seemed comfortable was the come back win vs the Cards. 

Not sure what was going on with him last season prior to the injury

[McCherry]

Apr 22, 2024 10:59:27 GMT -5 cdngfan said:

Apr 22, 2024 9:33:03 GMT -5 McCherry said:

I think Schoen/Daboll are clearly interested in QB's and they have re-iterated their faith in Jones. But as you said there is a durability concern. Believing in one thing doesn't preclude the other.

Personally, I think they are going to draft a QB, and I think Jones can play. But what I find interesting, is that many of the fans interesting who want to go WR at 6 aren't Jones fans. Which is baffling.

I’m one of those guys. The probability of one of those QBs turning out is so low I don’t look at a drafted QB as a solution to our QB problem. It’s a scratch ticket. So it’s a potential non-solution dressed up as a solution.

I always feel the need to point this out. This isn’t an argument to not draft a QB, it’s an argument to say you can still improve this team without drafting a QB. I don’t disagree with the idea that we should come away from this draft with a QB. But I’m not sure why someone has to answer for not drafting a QB in the 3rd round as an example. To me, a 3rd round QB is like a 6th round edge rusher. He’s just a guess from a really imperfect pile of options.

So I don’t think they’ll hesitate to draft a QB they like. I even think they’ll move up to do it.

But I don’t think they’ll walk away from this draft with a QB no matter what. I think they saw themselves win 6 games with virtual garbage at QB. Is it so hard to picture them winning 9 games with a better o line and a serious WR with the same garbage at QB?

Because you could spend your 1st and 2nd day picks on a move up for a QB and the kid is worse than what you already have.

No one is getting rewarded for the attempt.

At the same time, the probability of failure factor can't keep you from drafting QB's. If anything, it should encourage you to keep drafting them until you get it right. WR's can be busts too.

I think Jones starts this season regardless what QB they draft. Lock is second. So I don't think the decision has an immediate impact. But you have to dip when there's something to dip into. Jone's future has clouds even if he plays well.

[BigBlueDog42]

Apr 22, 2024 11:37:58 GMT -5 GameTime said:

Apr 21, 2024 19:29:54 GMT -5 BigBlueDog42 said:

He will go as the protection goes and his play makers go he isn't gonn escape 2 or 3 rushers and make plays maybe 1 or 2 from time to time.

Just think it was different last year he was rattled and sped up in a bad way he was seeing ghost rushing throws with 0 pressure. 

he didnt look right from the very first game vs Dallas. 

I was like what happened to 2022?? 

The only time he seemed comfortable was the come back win vs the Cards. 

Not sure what was going on with him last season prior to the injury

I think he got over whelmed that first game the rush was intense with 1 or 2 quick win rushes almost every snap they got whooped and Jones was lost think after that ball went off SQBs hands for the pick 6 he was done.     

[cdngfan]

Apr 22, 2024 12:08:29 GMT -5 McCherry said:

Apr 22, 2024 10:59:27 GMT -5 cdngfan said:

I’m one of those guys. The probability of one of those QBs turning out is so low I don’t look at a drafted QB as a solution to our QB problem. It’s a scratch ticket. So it’s a potential non-solution dressed up as a solution.

I always feel the need to point this out. This isn’t an argument to not draft a QB, it’s an argument to say you can still improve this team without drafting a QB. I don’t disagree with the idea that we should come away from this draft with a QB. But I’m not sure why someone has to answer for not drafting a QB in the 3rd round as an example. To me, a 3rd round QB is like a 6th round edge rusher. He’s just a guess from a really imperfect pile of options.

So I don’t think they’ll hesitate to draft a QB they like. I even think they’ll move up to do it.

But I don’t think they’ll walk away from this draft with a QB no matter what. I think they saw themselves win 6 games with virtual garbage at QB. Is it so hard to picture them winning 9 games with a better o line and a serious WR with the same garbage at QB?

Because you could spend your 1st and 2nd day picks on a move up for a QB and the kid is worse than what you already have.

No one is getting rewarded for the attempt.

At the same time, the probability of failure factor can't keep you from drafting QB's. If anything, it should encourage you to keep drafting them until you get it right. WR's can be busts too.

I think Jones starts this season regardless what QB they draft. Lock is second. So I don't think the decision has an immediate impact. But you have to dip when there's something to dip into. Jone's future has clouds even if he plays well.

I think we’re on the same page. The top 4 QBs could be gone in 4 picks. I don’t want them trading anything and everything to get in there. I also wouldn’t pass up on MHJ or Odunze for Penix or Nix.

Unsubstantiated personal opinion, I think they choose Maye or JJ if they fall to 6, even move to 5 to make sure they get them if the price isn’t crazy.

But I don’t think they’ll try and work the board to get one of the 2nd tire QBs unless the board makes it really easy to do.

So if all 4 are taken by 6, we’re probably taking WR1 or trading down to get WR2, and if the second tier is gone by 15 then we’re talking QB most likely in the 3rd rd or later, and now I truly don’t care if you take one in this draft or not.

[IrishMike]

Apr 22, 2024 12:08:29 GMT -5 McCherry said:

At the same time, the probability of failure factor can't keep you from drafting QB's. If anything, it should encourage you to keep drafting them until you get it right. WR's can be busts too.

I think Jones starts this season regardless what QB they draft. Lock is second. So I don't think the decision has an immediate impact. But you have to dip when there's something to dip into. Jone's future has clouds even if he plays well.

Yes anyone can be a failure so you have to choose based on who do you think is more likely to succeed. If we had the chance to draft Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, Trevor Lawrence then I don't think there would be much discussion. Using CDNs chess analogy, if we were sacrificing Jones (a knight) for a queen then do it. I don't see that player in this draft, so at best we're sacrificing Jones for a crap shoot at QB.

Now you look at the WRs we can take and there are 3 top tier talents that are some of the best WRs prospects in the last decade, which is saying a lot. So at this point we'd be giving up one piece in Jones and another in that rookie WR to draft a crap shoot at QB. No thanks.

Unless of course Schoen / Daboll thinks one of these QBs is a stud.

With all that said, the reason you can build a team by "keep drafting them until you get it right" is because on average a GM has 1 shot at drafting a QB. If it goes wrong he's probably gone. The best way to keep your job is to improve your team and win games, when the time is right then you can go get that QB. That's how Lynch bought himself so much time in San Fran, took a 2-14 team and in year three they won 13 games, so no one cares that he traded for Garapolo and traded the farm for Trey Lance. Had he not built a winning team, while searching for that QB, he'd have been fired.

[inconvenientruth]

Apr 22, 2024 11:37:58 GMT -5 GameTime said:

Apr 21, 2024 19:29:54 GMT -5 BigBlueDog42 said:

He will go as the protection goes and his play makers go he isn't gonn escape 2 or 3 rushers and make plays maybe 1 or 2 from time to time.

Just think it was different last year he was rattled and sped up in a bad way he was seeing ghost rushing throws with 0 pressure. 

he didnt look right from the very first game vs Dallas. 

I was like what happened to 2022?? 

The only time he seemed comfortable was the come back win vs the Cards. 

Not sure what was going on with him last season prior to the injury

Teams started covering his first read.

He then holds the ball, inviting pressure, or throws an interception because his processing is/was bad.

Making a one-read QB 'think' will cause him problems. 

You take away his check-down and make him look deep? not at all what DJ's game is based on. 

Which is why we're not looking to draft OT high, Daboll/Schoen know QB is a bigger issue. its about time they did. 

[McCherry]

Apr 22, 2024 13:09:11 GMT -5 cdngfan said:

Apr 22, 2024 12:08:29 GMT -5 McCherry said:

At the same time, the probability of failure factor can't keep you from drafting QB's. If anything, it should encourage you to keep drafting them until you get it right. WR's can be busts too.

I think Jones starts this season regardless what QB they draft. Lock is second. So I don't think the decision has an immediate impact. But you have to dip when there's something to dip into. Jone's future has clouds even if he plays well.

I think we’re on the same page. The top 4 QBs could be gone in 4 picks. I don’t want them trading anything and everything to get in there. I also wouldn’t pass up on MHJ or Odunze for Penix or Nix.

Unsubstantiated personal opinion, I think they choose Maye or JJ if they fall to 6, even move to 5 to make sure they get them if the price isn’t crazy.

But I don’t think they’ll try and work the board to get one of the 2nd tire QBs unless the board makes it really easy to do.

So if all 4 are taken by 6, we’re probably taking WR1 or trading down to get WR2, and if the second tier is gone by 15 then we’re talking QB most likely in the 3rd rd or later, and now I truly don’t care if you take one in this draft or not.

I agree with this. I think where they draft in round 2 puts them way out of range of Penix, probably even Nix. It's more like Rattler range. I'm not crazy about moving up in round 2, but I think it's a real possibility.

[McCherry]

Apr 22, 2024 11:37:58 GMT -5 GameTime said:

Apr 21, 2024 19:29:54 GMT -5 BigBlueDog42 said:

He will go as the protection goes and his play makers go he isn't gonn escape 2 or 3 rushers and make plays maybe 1 or 2 from time to time.

Just think it was different last year he was rattled and sped up in a bad way he was seeing ghost rushing throws with 0 pressure. 

he didnt look right from the very first game vs Dallas. 

I was like what happened to 2022?? 

The only time he seemed comfortable was the come back win vs the Cards. 

Not sure what was going on with him last season prior to the injury

Sacked 30 times, under constant seige. No Andrew Thomas, no Saquan Barkley. Offense, defense, special teams and coaching a complete shit show around him. 

I think there were definitely times he had his opportunities and didn't come through. But lord almighty if we're being fair, he wasn't given much of a chance to succeed. 

[mendy]

Apr 21, 2024 18:44:20 GMT -5 te88 said:

Daboll might be somewhat at risk.

I see pretty much zero risk to Schoen losing his job.

They're a set.

[giantbob71]

Apr 21, 2024 14:08:12 GMT -5 McCherry said:

Apr 21, 2024 13:51:16 GMT -5 myronguyton29 said:

agreed.

There are always other options if they don't get a qb in this draft. We might not like or agree with what or how they end up going with their plan is but if it works out then I'm sure at that time we will clap and be happy lol. 

Time will indeed tell........

You're right, there are always options.

But I've said it many times. I see no scenario where they don't draft a QB this week. if I'm wrong, there will be questions. Not just from me.

This!

A lot can happen in 2024, but it looks like this won't be a very good team. If this is another 5-7 win team, Schoen and Daboll will desperately need something to distract fans and Mara...that likely can only be a rookie QB.

The real DJ shitstorm hasn't even happened yet. That will happen the day DJ is cut and Schoen has to answer for wasting $100+ million over 2 years, on a bad QB. Up to this point, he's dodged those questions by pointing to some miracle performance in 2024. If/when that doesn't happen, the gloves come off and Schoen can't dodge the media.

The other possible huge problem for Schoen is if Saquon kills it for the Eagles.

Everyone is on optimistic off-season mode right now...the mood will most likely be completely different next January, when Mara has to make the tough decisions.

[ThatGuyRich]

Apr 21, 2024 14:40:21 GMT -5 TEM said:

This draft represents their 11th pick in the top 100 picks. A 5th of the roster. They better reach the playoffs or they are toast. I hope the make the playoffs.

Tem were all rooting and hoping for success but the reality is we've been so bad for so long. I ask all our fans can you name 5 teams worse than us ? It's a challenge even if anyone can think they can.

I'm hoping whatever they do it works.

[giantsalmon]

Apr 22, 2024 18:35:41 GMT -5 giantbob71 said:

Apr 21, 2024 14:08:12 GMT -5 McCherry said:

You're right, there are always options.

But I've said it many times. I see no scenario where they don't draft a QB this week. if I'm wrong, there will be questions. Not just from me.

This!

A lot can happen in 2024, but it looks like this won't be a very good team. If this is another 5-7 win team, Schoen and Daboll will desperately need something to distract fans and Mara...that likely can only be a rookie QB.

The real DJ shitstorm hasn't even happened yet. That will happen the day DJ is cut and Schoen has to answer for wasting $100+ million over 2 years, on a bad QB. Up to this point, he's dodged those questions by pointing to some miracle performance in 2024. If/when that doesn't happen, the gloves come off and Schoen can't dodge the media.

The other possible huge problem for Schoen is if Saquon kills it for the Eagles.

Everyone is on optimistic off-season mode right now...the mood will most likely be completely different next January, when Mara has to make the tough decisions.

If Saquon "kills it" its not a problem for Schoen. No different than McCaffery not making a difference for Carolina but being an excellent frosting piece for San Fran. Barkley is a frosting piece. Trying to ride him to a Championship with a sketchy roster proved foolhardy. He needed to go so they could get away from trying to get him his "touches".  Good player but he isnt the home run hitter he was and he never really was good in Pass Protection. 

[giantbob71]

Apr 22, 2024 20:39:57 GMT -5 giantsalmon said:

Apr 22, 2024 18:35:41 GMT -5 giantbob71 said:

This!

A lot can happen in 2024, but it looks like this won't be a very good team. If this is another 5-7 win team, Schoen and Daboll will desperately need something to distract fans and Mara...that likely can only be a rookie QB.

The real DJ shitstorm hasn't even happened yet. That will happen the day DJ is cut and Schoen has to answer for wasting $100+ million over 2 years, on a bad QB. Up to this point, he's dodged those questions by pointing to some miracle performance in 2024. If/when that doesn't happen, the gloves come off and Schoen can't dodge the media.

The other possible huge problem for Schoen is if Saquon kills it for the Eagles.

Everyone is on optimistic off-season mode right now...the mood will most likely be completely different next January, when Mara has to make the tough decisions.

If Saquon "kills it" its not a problem for Schoen. No different than McCaffery not making a difference for Carolina but being an excellent frosting piece for San Fran. Barkley is a frosting piece. Trying to ride him to a Championship with a sketchy roster proved foolhardy. He needed to go so they could get away from trying to get him his "touches".  Good player but he isnt the home run hitter he was and he never really was good in Pass Protection. 

Couldn't disagree more. Carolina got a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and future 5th for McCaffrey. Schoen got nothing for SB (won't even get a comp pick).

There's a lot at play here. DJs stats are significantly worse without SB in the lineup...if that continues while SB is playing well in Philly,it won't be a good look. What if Singletary struggles? There's a lot that can go wrong for Schoen considering he got nothing in return for Saquon.

[GameTime]

Apr 22, 2024 16:25:56 GMT -5 McCherry said:

Apr 22, 2024 11:37:58 GMT -5 GameTime said:

he didnt look right from the very first game vs Dallas. 

I was like what happened to 2022?? 

The only time he seemed comfortable was the come back win vs the Cards. 

Not sure what was going on with him last season prior to the injury

Sacked 30 times, under constant seige. No Andrew Thomas, no Saquan Barkley. Offense, defense, special teams and coaching a complete shit show around him. 

I think there were definitely times he had his opportunities and didn't come through. But lord almighty if we're being fair, he wasn't given much of a chance to succeed. 

I am being fair. Have said a 100 times he had a shit show around him. beyond that you can still see he was a different QB in 2023 than he was in 2022. 

The kid took a step back for sure. Thats just my view. 

[Sarcasman]

Apr 22, 2024 18:35:41 GMT -5 giantbob71 said:

Apr 21, 2024 14:08:12 GMT -5 McCherry said:

You're right, there are always options.

But I've said it many times. I see no scenario where they don't draft a QB this week. if I'm wrong, there will be questions. Not just from me.

This!

A lot can happen in 2024, but it looks like this won't be a very good team. If this is another 5-7 win team, Schoen and Daboll will desperately need something to distract fans and Mara...that likely can only be a rookie QB.

The real DJ shitstorm hasn't even happened yet. That will happen the day DJ is cut and Schoen has to answer for wasting $100+ million over 2 years, on a bad QB. Up to this point, he's dodged those questions by pointing to some miracle performance in 2024. If/when that doesn't happen, the gloves come off and Schoen can't dodge the media.

The other possible huge problem for Schoen is if Saquon kills it for the Eagles.

Everyone is on optimistic off-season mode right now...the mood will most likely be completely different next January, when Mara has to make the tough decisions.

Who is Schoen going to have to answer to for paying Jones these past two years?

As far as Barkley goes, he will likely play well for the Eagles and it likely won’t mean all that much to anyone in the Giants organization. The RB market is very liquid, a lot of RBs moved to new teams and no teams got any compensation for any of them.  They don’t warrant a premium.  The 49ers paying one for McCaffery is the exception, not the rule.  They’ve built a very solid team so mistakes like that or wasting draft capital to move up to draft a lousy QB don’t get the microscope treatment. 

[giantbob71]

Apr 23, 2024 0:25:52 GMT -5 Sarcasman said:

Apr 22, 2024 18:35:41 GMT -5 giantbob71 said:

This!

A lot can happen in 2024, but it looks like this won't be a very good team. If this is another 5-7 win team, Schoen and Daboll will desperately need something to distract fans and Mara...that likely can only be a rookie QB.

The real DJ shitstorm hasn't even happened yet. That will happen the day DJ is cut and Schoen has to answer for wasting $100+ million over 2 years, on a bad QB. Up to this point, he's dodged those questions by pointing to some miracle performance in 2024. If/when that doesn't happen, the gloves come off and Schoen can't dodge the media.

The other possible huge problem for Schoen is if Saquon kills it for the Eagles.

Everyone is on optimistic off-season mode right now...the mood will most likely be completely different next January, when Mara has to make the tough decisions.

Who is Schoen going to have to answer to for paying Jones these past two years?

As far as Barkley goes, he will likely play well for the Eagles and it likely won’t mean all that much to anyone in the Giants organization. The RB market is very liquid, a lot of RBs moved to new teams and no teams got any compensation for any of them.  They don’t warrant a premium.  The 49ers paying one for McCaffery is the exception, not the rule.  They’ve built a very solid team so mistakes like that or wasting draft capital to move up to draft a lousy QB don’t get the microscope treatment. 

Who did Gettleman answer to for his terrible contracts with Solder and Golladay? If you think this contract is just going to go away, and the amount of money wasted never mentioned, especially by the national media, I can't help you. It's brought up 1-2 times a month here in DFW, and the real ramifications haven't even happened yet. Schoen is going to have paid (or wasted in dead cap) a bad QB over $50 million, per season, when this goes down. That's not going away quietly.

If Barkley plays well, Singletary (or a new rookie) better play well. Once again, it will be talked about if SB is balling, in the national media if the Giants season is over by November.

I'm not saying the Giants get 4 picks for SB, but they get at least 2. Letting SB walk for nothing was a terrible decision. Would this draft look better if the Giants had an extra 3rd (or 4th) and 5th? Even McKinney had trade value....it makes no sense. He gets a pass because Mara is too dumb to see the stupidity of letting good/great players walk for nothing.

Unless next season goes a completely different direction than I'm expecting...there are dark days ahead for Schoen. Feel free to call me out next January, if nothing is said about Schoen.

[Sarcasman]

Apr 23, 2024 14:39:15 GMT -5 giantbob71 said:

Apr 23, 2024 0:25:52 GMT -5 Sarcasman said:

Who is Schoen going to have to answer to for paying Jones these past two years?

As far as Barkley goes, he will likely play well for the Eagles and it likely won’t mean all that much to anyone in the Giants organization. The RB market is very liquid, a lot of RBs moved to new teams and no teams got any compensation for any of them.  They don’t warrant a premium.  The 49ers paying one for McCaffery is the exception, not the rule.  They’ve built a very solid team so mistakes like that or wasting draft capital to move up to draft a lousy QB don’t get the microscope treatment. 

Who did Gettleman answer to for his terrible contracts with Solder and Golladay? If you think this contract is just going to go away, and the amount of money wasted never mentioned, especially by the national media, I can't help you. It's brought up 1-2 times a month here in DFW, and the real ramifications haven't even happened yet. Schoen is going to have paid (or wasted in dead cap) a bad QB over $50 million, per season, when this goes down. That's not going away quietly.

If Barkley plays well, Singletary (or a new rookie) better play well. Once again, it will be talked about if SB is balling, in the national media if the Giants season is over by November.

I'm not saying the Giants get 4 picks for SB, but they get at least 2. Letting SB walk for nothing was a terrible decision. Would this draft look better if the Giants had an extra 3rd (or 4th) and 5th? Even McKinney had trade value....it makes no sense. He gets a pass because Mara is too dumb to see the stupidity of letting good/great players walk for nothing.

Unless next season goes a completely different direction than I'm expecting...there are dark days ahead for Schoen. Feel free to call me out next January, if nothing is said about Schoen.

I can’t imagine why the media in DFW is currently talking about what Gettelman did years ago did as opposed to Prescott’s contract, but whatever makes them happy I guess.  

So, “it’s going to be talked about” is the sum of this, gotcha.   Somehow he’s just gonna have to live through that hell.  The football media is paid to try to make mountains out of this stuff so yeah 100% that will happen.  So, I definitely will not be calling you out since that is guaranteed. 

In fact I’m looking forward to all the articles about the other RBs that had better seasons than Barkley and all the draft picks they weren’t traded for.

[giantbob71]

Apr 23, 2024 16:28:14 GMT -5 Sarcasman said:

Apr 23, 2024 14:39:15 GMT -5 giantbob71 said:

Who did Gettleman answer to for his terrible contracts with Solder and Golladay? If you think this contract is just going to go away, and the amount of money wasted never mentioned, especially by the national media, I can't help you. It's brought up 1-2 times a month here in DFW, and the real ramifications haven't even happened yet. Schoen is going to have paid (or wasted in dead cap) a bad QB over $50 million, per season, when this goes down. That's not going away quietly.

If Barkley plays well, Singletary (or a new rookie) better play well. Once again, it will be talked about if SB is balling, in the national media if the Giants season is over by November.

I'm not saying the Giants get 4 picks for SB, but they get at least 2. Letting SB walk for nothing was a terrible decision. Would this draft look better if the Giants had an extra 3rd (or 4th) and 5th? Even McKinney had trade value....it makes no sense. He gets a pass because Mara is too dumb to see the stupidity of letting good/great players walk for nothing.

Unless next season goes a completely different direction than I'm expecting...there are dark days ahead for Schoen. Feel free to call me out next January, if nothing is said about Schoen.

I can’t imagine why the media in DFW is currently talking about what Gettelman did years ago did as opposed to Prescott’s contract, but whatever makes them happy I guess.  

So, “it’s going to be talked about” is the sum of this, gotcha.   Somehow he’s just gonna have to live through that hell.  The football media is paid to try to make mountains out of this stuff so yeah 100% that will happen.  So, I definitely will not be calling you out since that is guaranteed. 

In fact I’m looking forward to all the articles about the other RBs that had better seasons than Barkley and all the draft picks they weren’t traded for.

DFW media ragging on Schoen over the DJ contract...but we agree on the rest. I hope the Giants play well next year or it could be a very ugly off-season, which will put pressure on Mara.

[Rangers13]

Giants cannot go into the 2025 draft looking for a QB imo.

This is their chance and a shame they aren’t picking earlier b/c they needed to be imo