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Post by Analyst on Apr 23, 2024 12:11:04 GMT -5
Lazy my ass. I didnt compare the 2 by the way. I just said we might as well roll with DJ instead and go get a WR. I did a ton of researching on all the QBs. And I'm not claiming it to be a guarantee, analyzing QBs is a very tough challenge, but Drake Maye is not him. He was incredibly inaccurate under pressure. He looked terrible at times. He is one of those QBs that needs it all to be perfect around him to put up good stats. He regressed a lot from 2022 to 2023. In a way, he reminds me of Sam Darnolds regression when he was at USC. He has a strong arm (not as strong as Daniels or McCarthy), but has poor footwork which leads to many inaccurate passes. In fact his whole throwing motion is whacky. His pocket throwing is panicky. Lot of ground burners and overthrows. Or misfires on crossing routes too far behind or in front. After the 2022 season I was impressed and wanted to watch more in 2023. I did. Not impressed at all. Hard pass. Especially moving up for him. Haha wait, So Daniels and Mccarthy have bigger arms? which games did you watch to get this assessment? I've never seen a fan base more clueless about QBs than the Giants fan base. Specifically, In terms of Arm Strength: 1. Maye 2. JJ 3. Daniel Jones 4. Jayden Daniels Instead of trying to get hot takes. Try watching... maybe even 1 tape per prospect. You clearly haven't. You can watch one game of Maye's versus the rest that he's got a much stronger arm, only JJ comes close. Daniels has such little drive i find it hard to believe you've watched a second of tape, so why are you so intense? If you hate Maye as a prospect, you also hated Josh Allen. Cool.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 23, 2024 12:11:13 GMT -5
Yeah i think most people dont have a clue when it comes to QBs oh I do. Have never been wrong. Never
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Post by inconvenientruth on Apr 23, 2024 12:15:02 GMT -5
Haha wait, So Daniels and Mccarthy have bigger arms? which games did you watch to get this assessment? I've never seen a fan base more clueless about QBs than the Giants fan base. Specifically, In terms of Arm Strength: 1. Maye 2. JJ 3. Daniel Jones 4. Jayden Daniels Instead of trying to get hot takes. Try watching... maybe even 1 tape per prospect. You clearly haven't. You can watch one game of Maye's versus the rest that he's got a much stronger arm, only JJ comes close. Daniels has such little drive i find it hard to believe you've watched a second of tape, so why are you so intense? If you hate Maye as a prospect, you also hated Josh Allen. Cool. talk about Maye's footwork within the pocket, and how he tends to stray and tends to move his feet when throwing the ball, was causes inaccuracy. these are his issues. Similar to what Josh Allen had. In terms of Arm Strength and talent, Maye is top 5-7 day 1 in the NFL. He has just to clean up this technique. This is exactly the skill set you bank on. This is coming from someone who is less than impressed with what Schoen has done thus far in his Giants career.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 23, 2024 12:15:18 GMT -5
Strange...I just heard the exact opposite from The Athletic in today's podcast. Dianna Russini says after talking to a few people within the NYG the Giants ownership is denying a trade up for a QB since they just committed to Daniel Jones. "Schoen has to figure out a way to win with Daniel Jones...they want a build...they want to get more...if there is any team that could possibly trade down it's the Giants.." (Athletic Podcast). She called trading up for QB was a tough sell to ownership. The same owner who wanted to scuttle the Eli deal over throwing in a 5th round pick ... Silver Spooned Weenie
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Post by vinnie on Apr 23, 2024 12:16:18 GMT -5
Yeah i think most people dont have a clue when it comes to QBs i still remember folks here saying that JJ was a second round pick back just a couple of months ago. Why? someone told them so. Fact is, most people are just stealing opinions. I've read some wild stuff on these boards about these prospects, im open to fair criticism. But these are just hot takes. I’m no QB scout or “professional” analyst or a GM but based on their success rate when rating and/or drafting QB’s I wouldn’t put that much more stock into their opinions than my own, especially our most recently “fired” GM. Having said that, a lot of those more critical assessments of Maye’s weaknesses in the link I provided are mentioned over and over again by different people (poor pocket awareness, not going through reads, skittish in the pocket, staring down receivers, taking unnecessary chances, etc) and are eerily similar to DJ’s weaknesses. Can Maye be fixed? I dunno. After 5 years of DJ I think I have PTSD whenever I see a QB who has a lot of those same undesirable characteristics to his game. I didn’t watch every single one of Maye’s games this last year but the ones I did watch the first thing I noticed was how much he reminded me of DJ with regards to his flaws and now pretty much every scout has said the same thing. Again, maybe he’ll work out but he wouldn’t be my first choice, or second, maybe not even third, and I sure as hell wouldn’t give away future picks to draft him but unlike Ranger, I’ve been wrong but only once.
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Post by inconvenientruth on Apr 23, 2024 12:21:17 GMT -5
Yeah i think most people dont have a clue when it comes to QBs i still remember folks here saying that JJ was a second round pick back just a couple of months ago. Why? someone told them so. Fact is, most people are just stealing opinions. I've read some wild stuff on these boards about these prospects, im open to fair criticism. But these are just hot takes. I’m no QB scout or “professional” analyst or a GM but based on their success rate when rating and/or drafting QB’s I wouldn’t put that much more stock into their opinions then my own. Having said that, a lot of those more critical assessments of Maye’s weaknesses in the link I provided are mentioned over and over again by different people (poor pocket awareness, not going through reads, skittish in the pocket, staring down receivers, taking unnecessary chances, etc) and are eerily similar to DJ’s weaknesses. Can Maye be fixed? I dunno. After 5 years of DJ I think I have PTSD whenever I see a QB who has a lot of those same undesirable characteristics to his game. I didn’t watch every single one of Maye’s games this last year but the ones I did watch the first thing I noticed was how much he reminded me of DJ with regards to his flaws and now pretty much every scout has said the same thing. Again, maybe he’ll work out but he wouldn’t be my first choice, or second, maybe not even third, and I sure as hell wouldn’t give away future picks to draft him. Any prospect has potential to fail. DJ's issues were everything you mentioned above, but thats not Maye. He consistently throws downfield, over the middle, with pace. His poor footwork leads to him not being accurate. But pushing the ball downfield? these two couldn't be more different. Though, I will say his pocket awareness needs to improve, he's not oblivious the same way Jones is. Maye's baseline is a top 5 physical talent in this league, he needs technical refinement. I totally get why they'd move up for him. He possesses the same upside of Josh Allen with similar issues coming out of college. Jones is a middling talent, nothing superior. I have no clue why he was taken in the first round. Daniels has a similar arm to him, but is a lot more accurate and he's a much better runner, so i get why he will go in the first. I, personally, wouldn't touch Daniels.
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Post by nykiller on Apr 23, 2024 12:28:04 GMT -5
I wanted to stop watching this video at the 2.27 Mark because my decision was already made up.
I like J.J. McCarthy a lot better for the Giants. If the Giants trade up and draft Drake Maye and he is a disappointment while J.J. McCarthy is Shining, I will have no problem punishing the Giants draft decisions through both QBs career. The Giants better get this pick right, or heads may end up rolling if Drake is another Daniel.
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,989
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Post by te88 on Apr 23, 2024 12:30:52 GMT -5
Strange...I just heard the exact opposite from The Athletic in today's podcast. Dianna Russini says after talking to a few people within the NYG the Giants ownership is denying a trade up for a QB since they just committed to Daniel Jones. "Schoen has to figure out a way to win with Daniel Jones...they want a build...they want to get more...if there is any team that could possibly trade down it's the Giants.." (Athletic Podcast). She called trading up for QB was a tough sell to ownership. The same owner who wanted to scuttle the Eli deal over throwing in a 5th round pick ... Silver Spooned Weenie Yup “I initially said, ‘No, that’s it, we can’t keep doing this. Make it a final offer. They’re still going to take it,’” Mara said. “Then my brother Frank said to me, ‘We’re not going to lose this guy over a fifth-round draft pick. Let’s just make the deal. Nobody is going to remember who the fifth-round draft pick was.’ So we gave the OK to Ernie.” theathletic.com/944286/2019/04/25/it-probably-was-the-most-important-and-best-trade-we-ever-made-revisiting-the-giants-bold-deal-for-eli-manning-15-years-ago/But remember, he doesn’t get involved! He always lets the GM do his thing.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 23, 2024 12:34:56 GMT -5
I wanted to stop watching this video at the 2.27 Mark because my decision was already made up.
I like J.J. McCarthy a lot better for the Giants. If the Giants trade up and draft Drake Maye and he is a disappointment while J.J. McCarthy is Shining, I will have no problem punishing the Giants draft decisions through both QBs career. The Giants better get this pick right, or heads may end up rolling if Drake is another Daniel.
The good thing about the Giants possibly blowing the pick on a QB is the team can’t get any worse.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 23, 2024 12:40:59 GMT -5
I’m no QB scout or “professional” analyst or a GM but based on their success rate when rating and/or drafting QB’s I wouldn’t put that much more stock into their opinions then my own. Having said that, a lot of those more critical assessments of Maye’s weaknesses in the link I provided are mentioned over and over again by different people (poor pocket awareness, not going through reads, skittish in the pocket, staring down receivers, taking unnecessary chances, etc) and are eerily similar to DJ’s weaknesses. Can Maye be fixed? I dunno. After 5 years of DJ I think I have PTSD whenever I see a QB who has a lot of those same undesirable characteristics to his game. I didn’t watch every single one of Maye’s games this last year but the ones I did watch the first thing I noticed was how much he reminded me of DJ with regards to his flaws and now pretty much every scout has said the same thing. Again, maybe he’ll work out but he wouldn’t be my first choice, or second, maybe not even third, and I sure as hell wouldn’t give away future picks to draft him. Any prospect has potential to fail. DJ's issues were everything you mentioned above, but thats not Maye. He consistently throws downfield, over the middle, with pace. His poor footwork leads to him not being accurate. But pushing the ball downfield? these two couldn't be more different. Though, I will say his pocket awareness needs to improve, he's not oblivious the same way Jones is. Maye's baseline is a top 5 physical talent in this league, he needs technical refinement. I totally get why they'd move up for him. He possesses the same upside of Josh Allen with similar issues coming out of college. Jones is a middling talent, nothing superior. I have no clue why he was taken in the first round. Daniels has a similar arm to him, but is a lot more accurate and he's a much better runner, so i get why he will go in the first. I, personally, wouldn't touch Daniels. I always respect your opinions and usually agree with you, let’s just hope if we draft him then I’m wrong and I’ll be more than happy to admit it. I have always said I do think Schoen has a crush on him and if we were picking higher then Maye would most likely be the QB he goes for, I’m just not sure how much he’s willing to give up.
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Post by inconvenientruth on Apr 23, 2024 12:48:31 GMT -5
Any prospect has potential to fail. DJ's issues were everything you mentioned above, but thats not Maye. He consistently throws downfield, over the middle, with pace. His poor footwork leads to him not being accurate. But pushing the ball downfield? these two couldn't be more different. Though, I will say his pocket awareness needs to improve, he's not oblivious the same way Jones is. Maye's baseline is a top 5 physical talent in this league, he needs technical refinement. I totally get why they'd move up for him. He possesses the same upside of Josh Allen with similar issues coming out of college. Jones is a middling talent, nothing superior. I have no clue why he was taken in the first round. Daniels has a similar arm to him, but is a lot more accurate and he's a much better runner, so i get why he will go in the first. I, personally, wouldn't touch Daniels. I always respect your opinions and usually agree with you, let’s just hope if we draft him then I’m wrong and I’ll be more than happy to admit it. I have always said I do think Schoen has a crush on him and if we were picking higher then Maye would most likely be the QB he goes for, I’m just not sure how much he’s willing to give up. for me (and i love JJ) the only QBs I would trade up and give up, basically, any draft capital is Caleb Williams + Drake Maye. I believe in them as prospects. After finishing with the #6 pick, I had given up possibility of drafting Maye/Caleb. I thought he was a #2 lock. Thank god for Washington! I like this gamble if they take it. They massively scored with Allen and Maye is comically the same, if not much more refined, coming out.
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Post by inconvenientruth on Apr 23, 2024 12:50:36 GMT -5
with all this said, I can't believe Pats will trade down. They could use a Maye themselves.
I believe right now, Pats dont think Maye is the guy but want the Giants to PAY. Will they? find out soon.
Ill go ahead and say i'd pay just about any price for the potential. Maye is that championship winning potential we need to be relevant. You can count these types of QB prospects on one had in the NFL right now.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 23, 2024 12:55:55 GMT -5
Yeah i think most people dont have a clue when it comes to QBs i still remember folks here saying that JJ was a second round pick back just a couple of months ago. Why? someone told them so. Fact is, most people are just stealing opinions. I've read some wild stuff on these boards about these prospects, im open to fair criticism. But these are just hot takes. And some saying Penix was a top-10 pick. Can't put any stock into fans scouting evaluations from the couch.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 23, 2024 12:56:44 GMT -5
What? Maye is lightyears better than Jones was as a prospect. Not comparable. He easily has the 2nd highest ceiling in the class behind Williams. Top end arm talent and athleticism with a skillset that matches Daboll's system Sure. So was Sam Darnold. It means nothing. The one thing I will say about Maye is that he didnt have much to work with at UNC. Then again, people were saying that for DJ at Duke too. Dont look at that 2022 season. Look at the 2023 season. It wasnt great. Im just not impressed with any of these QBs enough to move up and give up draft picks to get them. Before his play makers moved on he showed what he had and even this year he made a ton of NFL caliber throws that were dropped tight window his issue is his feet from what I been able to gather. I heard a pod a few weeks a go comparing him to Herbert who when went through the same thing losing his weapons. What the scout said when Herbert lost those guys the big plays went away. Me said with Maye some of those throws went away but he kept putting them on tape while being rushed and dealing with inconsistent WR play He might bust but he has the arm talent that can't be learned a QB either has or he doesn't and he has to fix somethings probably sitting for a year would be good he can do that with the Giants.
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Post by Analyst on Apr 23, 2024 13:02:09 GMT -5
In 2005, that pick turned out to be pick 144. It was traded 4x before the Rams decided to use it on Jerome Collins, TE from Notre Dame. 2 picks later, the Eagles drafted Trent Cole. In 2004, our 5th rounder was Gibril Wilson, an underrated safety.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 23, 2024 13:04:37 GMT -5
Sure. So was Sam Darnold. It means nothing. The one thing I will say about Maye is that he didnt have much to work with at UNC. Then again, people were saying that for DJ at Duke too. Dont look at that 2022 season. Look at the 2023 season. It wasnt great. Im just not impressed with any of these QBs enough to move up and give up draft picks to get them. Before his play makers moved on he showed what he had and even this year he made a ton of NFL caliber throws that were dropped tight window his issue is his feet from what I been able to gather. I heard a pod a few weeks a go comparing him to Herbert who when went through the same thing losing his weapons. What the scout said when Herbert lost those guys the big plays went away. Me said with Maye some of those throws went away but he kept putting them on tape while being rushed and dealing with inconsistent WR play He might bust but he has the arm talent that can't be learned a QB either has or he doesn't and he has to fix somethings probably sitting for a year would be good he can do that with the Giants. Definitely agree he has the arm talent and ot would be beneficial for him to sit his first year, or the majority of it.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 23, 2024 13:05:30 GMT -5
with all this said, I can't believe Pats will trade down. They could use a Maye themselves. I believe right now, Pats dont think Maye is the guy but want the Giants to PAY. Will they? find out soon. I’llgo ahead and say i'd pay just about any price for the potential. Maye is that championship winning potential we need to be relevant. You can count these types of QB prospects on one had in the NFL right now. i don’t buy they’re moving. The top 3 teams in the draft all traded their starters.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 23, 2024 13:06:44 GMT -5
Yeah i think most people dont have a clue when it comes to QBs i still remember folks here saying that JJ was a second round pick back just a couple of months ago. Why? someone told them so. Fact is, most people are just stealing opinions. I've read some wild stuff on these boards about these prospects, im open to fair criticism. But these are just hot takes. And some saying Penix was a top-10 pick. Can't put any stock into fans scouting evaluations from the couch. I think the risk of injury has kept him down. Or maybe just his injury history.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 23, 2024 13:12:13 GMT -5
Before his play makers moved on he showed what he had and even this year he made a ton of NFL caliber throws that were dropped tight window his issue is his feet from what I been able to gather. I heard a pod a few weeks a go comparing him to Herbert who when went through the same thing losing his weapons. What the scout said when Herbert lost those guys the big plays went away. Me said with Maye some of those throws went away but he kept putting them on tape while being rushed and dealing with inconsistent WR play He might bust but he has the arm talent that can't be learned a QB either has or he doesn't and he has to fix somethings probably sitting for a year would be good he can do that with the Giants. Definitely agree he has the arm talent and ot would be beneficial for him to sit his first year, or the majority of it. I think everyone of these guys can use 9 to 13 games on the bench depending on how quickly they can pick things up and fix their flaws. I like Maye because he has all the physical tools has changed plays at the LOS and I believe helped with protections. He has every thing and is further along than Allen was when he broke into the league can Daboll help another young physically talented kid again i want to find out.
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nyg2
Starter
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Post by nyg2 on Apr 23, 2024 13:16:14 GMT -5
Looks like the Vikings are going to drive up the price for us if we do actually want Drake Maye.
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Post by inconvenientruth on Apr 23, 2024 13:16:40 GMT -5
And some saying Penix was a top-10 pick. Can't put any stock into fans scouting evaluations from the couch. I think the risk of injury has kept him down. Or maybe just his injury history. Penix is a three point shooter, proverbially. Big Arm, great deep ball, struggles with identifying short/intermediate route combo's/zones. Can this be taught? maybe, if Daboll thinks he can manage i believe it. He did wonders with Tommy Devitto who has nothing close to the talent of a Penix Injury risk is secondary. BUT, i like Penix enough to trade back into the top of rd 1 and take him. After we take Nabers/Odunze at #6.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 23, 2024 13:17:00 GMT -5
with all this said, I can't believe Pats will trade down. They could use a Maye themselves. I believe right now, Pats dont think Maye is the guy but want the Giants to PAY. Will they? find out soon. Ill go ahead and say i'd pay just about any price for the potential. Maye is that championship winning potential we need to be relevant. You can count these types of QB prospects on one had in the NFL right now. He has the things that only a chosen few wake up out of bed with and we have a coach who molded a less polished physically talented kid in Allen.
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Post by inconvenientruth on Apr 23, 2024 13:18:27 GMT -5
with all this said, I can't believe Pats will trade down. They could use a Maye themselves. I believe right now, Pats dont think Maye is the guy but want the Giants to PAY. Will they? find out soon. Ill go ahead and say i'd pay just about any price for the potential. Maye is that championship winning potential we need to be relevant. You can count these types of QB prospects on one had in the NFL right now. He has the things that only a chosen few wake up out of bed with and we have a coach who molded a less polished physically talented kid in Allen. absolutely, it makes so much sense. But i believe the Giants won themselves out of this opportunity. only chance is if Pats like JJ more than Maye. They dont move back unless they secure 1 of them
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 23, 2024 13:21:29 GMT -5
Looks like the Vikings are going to drive up the price for us if we do actually want Drake Maye. All depends I think the Pats will stick and pick unless they get some insane capital. I think the Cardinals don't want to go any further than 6 another thing is Harrison has only taken a visit with Chicago and Arizona that people now of.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 23, 2024 13:24:01 GMT -5
He has the things that only a chosen few wake up out of bed with and we have a coach who molded a less polished physically talented kid in Allen. absolutely, it makes so much sense. But i believe the Giants won themselves out of this opportunity. only chance is if Pats like JJ more than Maye. They dont move back unless they secure 1 of them I don't know what happens if they don't get the guy they want if it is Maye do they like McCarthy as close enough second to go after him.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 23, 2024 13:27:50 GMT -5
I think the risk of injury has kept him down. Or maybe just his injury history. Penix is a three point shooter, proverbially. Big Arm, great deep ball, struggles with identifying short/intermediate route combo's/zones. Can this be taught? maybe, if Daboll thinks he can manage i believe it. He did wonders with Tommy Devitto who has nothing close to the talent of a Penix Injury risk is secondary. BUT, i like Penix enough to trade back into the top of rd 1 and take him. After we take Nabers/Odunze at #6. I worry abut the rush with him he turns into a different QB accuracy goes down love his arm when he is protected and when he has to make 1 move for some space, the NFL it is cloudy a lot.
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Post by lt56 on Apr 23, 2024 13:29:40 GMT -5
Draft Week Smoke Screens, we finally found out in 2 Days how things play out
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Post by bavarobeast on Apr 23, 2024 13:33:43 GMT -5
Could be smoke but If the Giants want to continue to not be able to get out of their own way they will draft Maye. Dude played in the awful ACC and at times was underwhelming doing it.
If we draft Maye at 6 that’s bad enough. If we trade up for him I’ll laugh - SMH - hope for the best.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 23, 2024 13:39:18 GMT -5
And some saying Penix was a top-10 pick. Can't put any stock into fans scouting evaluations from the couch. I think the risk of injury has kept him down. Or maybe just his injury history. No question. But that's a real concern. Tore the same knee twice. Ojulari dropped a round based on a High School injury. There are other concerns. He struggles in short range throws, which are the most important throws in the NFL.
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 23, 2024 14:02:24 GMT -5
I've been pretty consistent saying that I don't think any of the QBs (except maybe Williams) are worth the price to trade up, and Williams will cost a premium to pry away from Bears, if its even possible. I'd much prefer to take the best position players in the 1st/2nd round (I'm assuming even Nix and Penix will be off the boards when we're up in the 2nd) and maybe take a flyer on one of the lower tiered QBs in the 3rd, or day 3. I won't be upset if we take JJ or Maye wit our pick at 6, but not what I'd do personally...
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