|
|
Post by giantspride4life on Jun 17, 2018 14:23:26 GMT -5
They have some really good veterans (snacks, vernon, ogletree, jenkins, and landon) and have mixed in some young talent and what seems like a great coordinator based off his track record in Arizona.
You could easily see how they can be a strong Defense.
But the 2 spots that concern me is lack of depth at corner and lack of proven pass rushers. Vernon will get his 8-10 sacks If he's healthy but who else provides the pass rush? Martin, carter, hill??
How do you guys feel about the defense here in June as we get ready for camp?
|
|
|
|
Post by Parademon1 on Jun 17, 2018 15:03:53 GMT -5
Can't really tell how they are gonna do till the pre-season games begin. We should get an idea then of what type of D we are gonna have.
|
|
|
|
Post by JoeBigBlue on Jun 17, 2018 15:14:40 GMT -5
I'll be honest I'm somewhat concerned about the defense.
Then again who knows? A lot of bodies at camp and I have faith in Shurmur/Bettcher.
Also: with the new OL/Barkley/Odell healthy/new play calling.....the offense should be able to stay on the field longer and run the clock, which it hasn't done in years.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Jun 17, 2018 15:45:25 GMT -5
kinda both. I'm excited to see what the new formation will bring, but there are so many questions.
|
|
Jaydub
Special Teams
Posts: 595
|
Post by Jaydub on Jun 17, 2018 16:25:33 GMT -5
There are, at least on paper, some major question marks on this defense, particularly with the pass rush and depth in the secondary. Also, we don’t know what we’ve got at LB, and how its going to affect the 3-4/4-3 scheme that is being installed. I’m actually very concerned about this defense, right now, today. Let’s see what happens when the pads go on.
I’m even more concerned about the offense, but that’s another topic for another thread.
|
|
|
|
Post by Parademon1 on Jun 17, 2018 17:27:06 GMT -5
Problem with hiding a mediocre D on the sidelines all yr with your clock eating run game is that come playoff time, if you run into a top 10 D that can stuff the run & negate your TOP, now that D you were hiding on the sidelines with your clock eating run game gets exposed. Defense wins championships & it's what allowed the Giants to win in 2007-2011. In 6 of 8 SBs NE has put up 171 pts for a 28 ppg avg, vs the Giants D in 2 SBs, they have put up just 31 pts or 15.5ppg. A great D will almost always beat a great O.
The offensive rankings of the 5 teams the Giants faced in the SB
Den-#6 Giants D rank #2 D gave up just 23 total pts in the playoffs 7.6 ppg
Buff-#1 Giants D rank #1 D gave up just 35 pts in 3 playoff games 11.6ppg
Balt -#14 Giants D rank #5 D gave up just 10 total pts vs Phil/Minn in 1st 2 playoff games.
NE-#1 Giants D rank #17 D gave up 80pts in 1st 2 games then just 19.3 ppg the next 14 games & just 16.2 ppg in 4 playoff games
NE-#3 Giants D rank #25 D was injury riddled all yr & finally got healthy in Dec D gave up just 14ppg in 4 playoff games
|
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Jun 17, 2018 17:55:52 GMT -5
Concerned until hopefully proven wrong.
|
|
|
|
Post by Delicreep on Jun 17, 2018 18:35:09 GMT -5
I have grave concerns about everything from the water boy on up.
The D in particular has me questioning the pass rush and linebackers.
I think the secondary may hold their own.
|
|
|
|
Post by nick030567 on Jun 17, 2018 18:41:47 GMT -5
I'm very excited for the new scheme. I think the talent on this team is is closer to the skill level of the 2016 performance than 2017 (when their heads are in the game and are motivated to win at all costs). I think the scheme will help get the best out of each players skills as long as it is as relentless and creative as it was in Arizona. I'm a little concerned with the secondary but I Think some guys will manifest themselves a decent season because they're truly in a deep competition for a roster spot. Many of those guys have the opportunity of a lifetime that they wouldn't get on many other teams. I think they'll play scrappy. I also think that as long as Apple decides he wants to raise his level of awareness (by playing with the right technique and thus turning around opposed to mugging the receiver with his back turned to the ball) they'll be pretty decent when healthy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 18:44:21 GMT -5
Concerned. Secondary is a hodgepodge ... I think it will be a couple years before they put it all together. I could see Snacks not being here after this season. Just a feeling.
|
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Jun 17, 2018 20:38:35 GMT -5
I'm excited about the defense mainly because of the new DC has a history of having an aggressive defenses. I'm also looking forward to seeing Ogletree at ILB. I'm also high on Hill as well as Tomlison, and I believe we will be improved at FS as I don't see Thompson starting this year.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 7:05:08 GMT -5
I'm concerned with out LB depth and. let's face it, even the CB/S depth is a question mark to the coaches. Too many unknowns...
|
|
|
|
Post by jimmieray on Jun 18, 2018 7:24:11 GMT -5
I'm excited about the defense mainly because of the new DC has a history of having an aggressive defenses. I'm also looking forward to seeing Ogletree at ILB. I'm also high on Hill as well as Tomlison, and I believe we will be improved at FS as I don't see Thompson starting this year. We'll have to see if the new DC has been given the type of talent he needs to run his schemes, though. If the secondary does have weakness as a coverage unit, being aggressive could bite them on a lot of plays. It would seem the D-line is going to need help with the pass rush from somewhere, a lot is riding on how well the LB unit comes together. |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Jun 18, 2018 8:53:25 GMT -5
Concerned .
Snacks losing it, is a problem . Now is it Hernandez is getting to him? Or is it something bigger. Is he getting frustrated with being a one tech NT.
Is constantly getting a double team getting to him? If it is, that is a big problem . The NT is the heart of the 3-4 . The NTs job is to take up as many Interior linemen as possible. If he can't. Both ILBs will be taking on an O-linemen . That is a mismatch.and = running up the gut.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 9:12:55 GMT -5
Concerned . Snacks losing it, is a problem . Now is it Hernandez is getting to him? Or is it something bigger. Is he getting frustrated with being a one tech NT. Is constantly getting a double team getting to him? If it is, that is a big problem . The NT is the heart of the 3-4 . The NTs job is to take up as many Interior linemen as possible. If he can't. Both ILBs will be taking on an O-linemen . That is a mismatch.and = running up the gut. Is the constant double team getting to him? They haven't even put on the pads, yet. Snacks is the last person I'm concerned about on defense. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 9:16:53 GMT -5
Really concerned at all levels of this defense...
They only have one solid corner, one average LB and the d-line only has one above average pass rusher..
This ball control offense better be as advertised!!
|
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Jun 18, 2018 9:23:47 GMT -5
Concerned . Snacks losing it, is a problem . Now is it Hernandez is getting to him? Or is it something bigger. Is he getting frustrated with being a one tech NT. Is constantly getting a double team getting to him? If it is, that is a big problem . The NT is the heart of the 3-4 . The NTs job is to take up as many Interior linemen as possible. If he can't. Both ILBs will be taking on an O-linemen . That is a mismatch.and = running up the gut. Is the constant double team getting to him? They haven't even put on the pads, yet. Snacks is the last person I'm concerned about on defense. If there is no contact . What pushed him to swing a helmet at a teammate. Are you saying he can not handle someone using words to beat him. If that is the case. That is a huge problem. I do not think that is the problem I think he realises his numbers will not be as good being a NT( the nature of position) and he is having an issue with the new role. That is my opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Jun 18, 2018 9:32:22 GMT -5
its really hard for anybody to have a strong opinion about the defense since we will now be a 3/4 for the most part and none of us has seen the team since the switch.
|
|
|
|
Post by KingCap88 on Jun 18, 2018 9:33:38 GMT -5
It's a mix of excitement and concern. Excitement about the new players and new DC, but concern about the switch to a 3-4.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimmieray on Jun 18, 2018 11:15:29 GMT -5
Is the constant double team getting to him? They haven't even put on the pads, yet. Snacks is the last person I'm concerned about on defense. If there is no contact . What pushed him to swing a helmet at a teammate. Are you saying he can not handle someone using words to beat him. If that is the case. That is a huge problem. I do not think that is the problem I think he realises his numbers will not be as good being a NT( the nature of position) and he is having an issue with the new role. That is my opinion. We've discussed this before. He played NT for the Jets, did it very well, and showed enough to get this nice contract with our team. I doubt this is an issue, and it's really not a stat reliant position. They do seem to be loading up on DTs, though, even with Tomlinson drafted last season. There could be feelings of being replaced with a lower cost team mate, in the future. |
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Jun 18, 2018 11:44:21 GMT -5
I'm excited about the defense mainly because of the new DC has a history of having an aggressive defenses. I'm also looking forward to seeing Ogletree at ILB. I'm also high on Hill as well as Tomlison, and I believe we will be improved at FS as I don't see Thompson starting this year. We'll have to see if the new DC has been given the type of talent he needs to run his schemes, though. If the secondary does have weakness as a coverage unit, being aggressive could bite them on a lot of plays. It would seem the D-line is going to need help with the pass rush from somewhere, a lot is riding on how well the LB unit comes together.
The Giants have Vernon, Okwara, and Moss, as well as the new additions of Kareem Martin and Lorenzo Carter as OLB's so these guys will be getting after the QB and we'll undoubtedly see them mixing things up by sending guys in the secondary.
The LB position will be key as you said as these guys will need to prove they can cover as well as pass rush.
|
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Jun 18, 2018 11:48:58 GMT -5
Is the constant double team getting to him? They haven't even put on the pads, yet. Snacks is the last person I'm concerned about on defense. If there is no contact . What pushed him to swing a helmet at a teammate. Are you saying he can not handle someone using words to beat him. If that is the case. That is a huge problem. I do not think that is the problem I think he realises his numbers will not be as good being a NT( the nature of position) and he is having an issue with the new role. That is my opinion.
He made mention that everything he was told he had to forget the last 2 years he now needs to remember, so perhaps he's just frustrated having to learn another system.
As a vet, I can see that as a PITA.
|
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Jun 18, 2018 12:09:33 GMT -5
If there is no contact . What pushed him to swing a helmet at a teammate. Are you saying he can not handle someone using words to beat him. If that is the case. That is a huge problem. I do not think that is the problem I think he realises his numbers will not be as good being a NT( the nature of position) and he is having an issue with the new role. That is my opinion.
He made mention that everything he was told he had to forget the last 2 years he now needs to remember, so perhaps he's just frustrated having to learn another system.
As a vet, I can see that as a PITA.
I agree . Can he go back to that type of D he had before the Giants? All NTs are DT . Very few DTs are NTs |
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Jun 18, 2018 12:22:53 GMT -5
He made mention that everything he was told he had to forget the last 2 years he now needs to remember, so perhaps he's just frustrated having to learn another system.
As a vet, I can see that as a PITA.
I agree . Can he go back to that type of D he had before the Giants? All NTs are DT . Very few DTs are NTs
You know, I've never really given that much thought. I guess we're going to find out.
|
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Jun 18, 2018 12:26:38 GMT -5
If there is no contact . What pushed him to swing a helmet at a teammate. Are you saying he can not handle someone using words to beat him. If that is the case. That is a huge problem. I do not think that is the problem I think he realises his numbers will not be as good being a NT( the nature of position) and he is having an issue with the new role. That is my opinion. We've discussed this before. He played NT for the Jets, did it very well, and showed enough to get this nice contract with our team. I doubt this is an issue, and it's really not a stat reliant position. They do seem to be loading up on DTs, though, even with Tomlinson drafted last season. There could be feelings of being replaced with a lower cost team mate, in the future. Can he go back in time and be a good NT? That is tough to do. The NT is the hardest position on the D to get right and master. If he can he'll have nothing to worry about because it is not a plug and play position . A good one is a rare commodity. An NT should be a minimum of 325- 330. Snacks is 342 . The only one that is close is Robert Thomas @331 . |
|
|
|
Post by trentongiantsfan83 on Jun 18, 2018 12:36:08 GMT -5
Concerned we do not have the pieces yet to be a top 10 defense. We are thin at linebacker, and the DL as well is suspect.
|
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Jun 18, 2018 12:36:56 GMT -5
Top 12 D overall....
|
|
|
|
Post by JoeyCush on Jun 18, 2018 13:47:10 GMT -5
Every time Im excited I get let down.
So put me down for concerned.
|
|
|
|
Post by Parademon1 on Jun 18, 2018 13:58:12 GMT -5
While it would be awesome to be a top 5-10 D this yr, being in the top 15 is a more realistic goal that I have in my mind for our D this yr. If this unit can limit teams to 21-22 ppg this yr, we should be a 10-6 team this yr. Of course I'm basing that on the fact that we should be putting up 24+ per game this yr with the new improvements on the O side of the ball.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Jun 18, 2018 14:53:50 GMT -5
Always excited at this time of year for the defense.
I am interested in seeing the new scheme play itself out.
|
|
