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Post by Roosevelt on Jun 23, 2018 19:38:41 GMT -5
I was listening to Moving The Chains, which I must say is great listen. Pat was talking about how linemen are stagnating due to the CBA not allowing contact. I think he might have quoted John Gruden - saying that it takes a player 4 years on today's training camps to get the equivalent of 1 year of camp back when Gruden last coached.
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Merc
Special Teams
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Post by Merc on Jun 23, 2018 20:41:39 GMT -5
I was listening to Moving The Chains, which I must say is great listen. Pat was talking about how linemen are stagnating due to the CBA not allowing contact. I think he might have quoted John Gruden - saying that it takes a player 4 years on today's training camps to get the equivalent of 1 year of camp back when Gruden last coached.
That's why more offseason camps like Bentley's are needed. |
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Post by TCHOF on Jun 23, 2018 20:50:33 GMT -5
I was listening to Moving The Chains, which I must say is great listen. Pat was talking about how linemen are stagnating due to the CBA not allowing contact. I think he might have quoted John Gruden - saying that it takes a player 4 years on today's training camps to get the equivalent of 1 year of camp back when Gruden last coached.
I’m a huge fan of Moving The Chains ... great show |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 21:57:12 GMT -5
Yes it’s true and something I’ve been saying and heard frequently over the years. OL is a very “drilled” position group traditionally. Muscle memory, symbiotic relationships between them all...that can only be forged with a huge amount of drilling. And it is required for good OL play.
What they are dealing with nowadays would be like taking new soldiers and teaching them how to operate and use a firearm with a couple of classroom lessons and going to the range once or twice and then drop them in a war zone. It’s not going to work.
This is why you see so much scheming around the weaknesses of your OWN OL in today’s league (see NY giants and Ereck Flowers when he supposedly “improved” in the second half of the season ....) Between the CBA and other rules the OL have fallen behind massively to their DL counterparts. Unlike DL, raw athleticism will not get you very far as an OL if you cannot master some fundamental things.
It’s why OL are getting way overdrafted and the returns are still poor.
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Post by Fletch842 on Jun 24, 2018 5:42:46 GMT -5
OL play and tackling have suffered the most under the new rules.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 7:43:52 GMT -5
OL play and tackling have suffered the most under the new rules. there used to be games where really good defenses used to miss 2 or 3 tackles in a game. Now teams are missing 2-3 tackles on a single run play just about every week. |
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Post by Delicreep on Jun 24, 2018 8:16:51 GMT -5
I was listening to Moving The Chains, which I must say is great listen. Pat was talking about how linemen are stagnating due to the CBA not allowing contact. I think he might have quoted John Gruden - saying that it takes a player 4 years on today's training camps to get the equivalent of 1 year of camp back when Gruden last coached.
The CBA is the kind of agreement that could only be in effect if both sides agreed that the quality of the product can suffer because of it.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jun 24, 2018 9:29:52 GMT -5
I was listening to Moving The Chains, which I must say is great listen. Pat was talking about how linemen are stagnating due to the CBA not allowing contact. I think he might have quoted John Gruden - saying that it takes a player 4 years on today's training camps to get the equivalent of 1 year of camp back when Gruden last coached.
think it even goes deeper tackling is always sloppy for the first couple of games too,they really need to do something how can a guy learn to trap and reach with out any real live action or very little,they work harder in college. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 12:19:59 GMT -5
I was listening to Moving The Chains, which I must say is great listen. Pat was talking about how linemen are stagnating due to the CBA not allowing contact. I think he might have quoted John Gruden - saying that it takes a player 4 years on today's training camps to get the equivalent of 1 year of camp back when Gruden last coached. Mark Schlereth has been talking about this for years on the local sports radio. It really has hurt the game a lot. |
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Post by Parademon1 on Jun 24, 2018 12:26:32 GMT -5
And this is shocking to anyone how? Like we said in the corps, "you fight how you train, more sweat now means less blood later".
You get outta your training what you put into it. Train like shit, you'll fight like shit, same applies to sports. But I feel no pity for the players as they voted for this policy so they are reaping what they sowed.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 14:27:46 GMT -5
And this is shocking to anyone how? Like we said in the corps, "you fight how you train, more sweat now means less blood later". You get outta your training what you put into it. Train like shit, you'll fight like shit, same applies to sports. But I feel no pity for the players as they voted for this policy so they are reaping what they sowed. I’m sure he players don’t care. They are happy. It’s the coaches and orgs that are needing to re-invent things quite a bit. You need creativity and some real weapons at the skill positions to create. Need threats that get the pressure off the OL. You need ways of teaching what you used to DRILL. Chances of putting together a group of young OL that play together well are slim to none. Gruden complains yet he traded up for the ultra-raw Kolton Miller. HE will reap what he sowed as that kid will likely turn out much like Ereck Flowers - young QB and no true threat in the backfield to help the OL out...Raiders will have a tough time. Veteran OL are where it is at. The young guys mostly suck and by the time they know how to play properly they are 4-5 years into the league. Left tackle in particular. |
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Post by TEM on Jun 24, 2018 15:41:47 GMT -5
The CBA rule was implemented to decrease injuries. Statically that has not been the case. Injuries are increasing. How anyone would have believed that not practicing with contact would decrease injuries should examine the data. Now is the increase in injuries as a result of the pressure on the NFL to report them? I can not answer that. But that could be a factor but can not account for all of increase that has been observed. www.nfl.com/trainingcamp/story/09000d5d8215c8ab/article/how-practice-changes-could-negatively-impact-nfl-gamesThe league has modified the practice rules to provide a safer environment for players, but the changes are certain to have a significant impact on the game. How well coaches adjust will ultimately determine which teams emerge as contenders this season.
www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000724489/article/mike-mccarthy-says-2011-cba-is-cause-of-increase-in-injuries
"Football has long been a physical sport, but McCarthy thinks injuries are climbing and he's part of the group that believes the 2011 collective bargaining agreement, with its restrictions on practices and offseason work"
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jun 24, 2018 17:17:25 GMT -5
think that they need the contact just like any other part of their training the body needs to be conditioned to take the physical pounding of the NFL season,and as the article stated the timing at full speed is important to have down.
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Post by Parademon1 on Jun 24, 2018 18:27:55 GMT -5
Long time ago, I saw an 80s NFL film called " NFL's hardest hits" I believe. There was a segment showing an Eagles coach named Marion Campbell I believe, he was chewing out his defense on the sidelines & I never forgot what he said to them " The name of the game men, is HITTING"! I've been watching you out there & you ain't hitting a damn thing"! He also said some expletives I won't mention as well but that always stuck with me to this day. Football is not a contact sport, it is a COLLISION sport. Limiting hitting in the offseason & then turning it on full force for the preseason games is insane imo. Their bodies are not conditioned to be hit due to no contact from Jan to July & now you want them going full force? Then we wonder why players get hurt so easy in the pre-season & during the season?
In the corps, we go all out & give 110%when we are doing training ops, no half assing it! Some people get hurt during the training, once in a blue moon, a death has occurred during a training op, guess what, we are training for war, shit happens. If we took it easy for fear of injury/death, whatcha think is gonna happen when the shit hits the fans for real?
IMO, the CBA was the worst thing the players ever did but hey , these multi-millionaire prima donnas wanna get paid, but do less in training camp so certain positions such as the OL suffer for it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 7:54:56 GMT -5
The lack of good tackling is what bothers me the most due to these minimum hitting practices...
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Post by GameTime on Jun 25, 2018 12:19:35 GMT -5
Not only the new CBA but the college game has changed too with so much spread offense. The OL never really has to get dirty in the trenches.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Jun 25, 2018 21:43:48 GMT -5
I can see it...Player safety takes away from the physicality that made the game great.
Next thing you know, they'll have a weight limit
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Post by Sarcasman on Jun 25, 2018 21:53:54 GMT -5
I can see it...Player safety takes away from the physicality that made the game great. Next thing you know, they'll have a weight limit Too late. Ditka has already disgraced the sport, there's no point anymore. |
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Post by DandyDon on Jun 27, 2018 8:19:48 GMT -5
I can see it...Player safety takes away from the physicality that made the game great. Next thing you know, they'll have a weight limit Yup. It's a combination of both the CBA and the college games. NFL needs a farm system, IMO. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 11:56:02 GMT -5
I can see it...Player safety takes away from the physicality that made the game great. Next thing you know, they'll have a weight limit Yup. It's a combination of both the CBA and the college games. NFL needs a farm system, IMO. It would be great for football to develop a farm system!! |
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Post by Parademon1 on Jun 27, 2018 15:06:05 GMT -5
They already do, it's called college football.
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