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Post by keyofgmen on Jul 8, 2018 8:43:57 GMT -5
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Jul 8, 2018 10:01:38 GMT -5
Eli Manning
Tom Brady
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Post by GameTime on Jul 8, 2018 10:23:21 GMT -5
Always said Eli is better than that “scheme QB” Tom Brady......  |
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Post by TEM on Jul 8, 2018 10:24:13 GMT -5
I am surprised Winston is on there .I do not think he has his head in the game at all times. Great talent just has not been able to hit his stride yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 10:27:23 GMT -5
How 'bout this one?  |
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Post by GameTime on Jul 8, 2018 10:33:56 GMT -5
How 'bout this one? Ok Rodgers is a better QB than Eli. Is that what you wanted to hear? |
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Post by TEM on Jul 8, 2018 10:36:05 GMT -5
How 'bout this one? OK I will ask what about it. if you are suggesting the O-line was anything but what we witnessed for the past 5 + years . Please tell my why my eyes were deceiving me. The O-line was working as it stood, is a hard point to make. If it was anything that resembled a model of efficiency . Dave would not have revamped the entire unit. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 10:55:37 GMT -5
How 'bout this one? OK I will ask what about it. if you are suggesting the O-line was anything but what we witnessed for the past 5 + years . Please tell my why my eyes were deceiving me. The O-line was working as it stood, is a hard point to make. If it was anything that resembled a model of efficiency . Dave would not have revamped the entire unit. This graphic seems to suggest that the Giants O-line was mediocre in 2017. Not great, not even good, but...not terrible, either. It's PFF, though, so take it with a grain of salt. And, of course Dave revamped the entire unit. In order to make his case that Eli is the quarterback of the future he had to place an exaggerated portion of the blame for the inept offense at the feet of the O-linemen. He certainly couldn't have convinced fans that "everything is fine" after they watched the 2017 offense put up 15.4 ppg. |
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Post by TEM on Jul 8, 2018 10:58:30 GMT -5
OK I will ask what about it. if you are suggesting the O-line was anything but what we witnessed for the past 5 + years . Please tell my why my eyes were deceiving me. The O-line was working as it stood, is a hard point to make. If it was anything that resembled a model of efficiency . Dave would not have revamped the entire unit. This graphic seems to suggest that the Giants O-line was mediocre in 2017. Not great, not even good, but...not terrible, either. It's PFF, though, so take it with a grain of salt. And, of course Dave revamped the entire unit. In order to make his case that Eli is the quarterback of the future he had to place an exaggerated portion of the blame for the inept offense at the feet of the O-linemen. He certainly couldn't have convinced fans that "everything is fine" after they watched the 2017 offense put up 15.4 ppg. I want to get back to . You know you played the Giants when you attempt to get out of bed the next day. A retooled O-line is a start. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 11:29:41 GMT -5
This graphic seems to suggest that the Giants O-line was mediocre in 2017. Not great, not even good, but...not terrible, either. It's PFF, though, so take it with a grain of salt. And, of course Dave revamped the entire unit. In order to make his case that Eli is the quarterback of the future he had to place an exaggerated portion of the blame for the inept offense at the feet of the O-linemen. He certainly couldn't have convinced fans that "everything is fine" after they watched the 2017 offense put up 15.4 ppg. I want to get back to . You know you played the Giants when you attempt to get out of bed the next day. A retooled O-line is a start. I know we all like to sentimentalize the bruisers of our youth, but...the game has changed. It's a quarterback-driven league now. |
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Post by TEM on Jul 8, 2018 11:41:50 GMT -5
I want to get back to . You know you played the Giants when you attempt to get out of bed the next day. A retooled O-line is a start. I know we all like to sentimentalize the bruisers of our youth, but...the game has changed. It's a quarterback-driven league now. Last years playoff teams 9 of the top 10 rushing teams were in the playoffs. I think that Paradigm shift in itself is a trend getting away from the "its a Qb driven league" model . For most teams it is and has been a failed model. GMs are beginning to realize there are only so many great to good QBs to go around. There are never 32 and hardly ever 15. I see the trend to more or less being if you do not have the Qb to attack with . Find other means to be successful . |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 12:26:12 GMT -5
I know we all like to sentimentalize the bruisers of our youth, but...the game has changed. It's a quarterback-driven league now. Last years playoff teams 9 of the top 10 rushing teams were in the playoffs. I think that Paradigm shift in itself is a trend getting away from the "its a Qb driven league" model . For most teams it is and has been a failed model. GMs are beginning to realize there are only so many great to good QBs to go around. There are never 32 and hardly ever 15. I see the trend to more or less being if you do not have the Qb to attack with . Find other means to be successful . Yeah, I've heard this statistic bandied about. So, I decided to look it up in confirmation. | Rank | Team | Rushing Yds. | Playoffs? | | 1 | Jacksonville | 2,262 | Y | | 2 | Dallas | 2,170 | N | | 3 | Philadelphia | 2,115 | Y | | 4 | Carolina | 2,102 | Y | | 5 | New Orleans | 2,070 | Y | | 6 | Buffalo | 2,017 | N | | 7 | Minnesota | 1,957 | Y | | 8 | L.A. Rams | 1,953 | Y | | 9 | Kansas City | 1,903 | Y | | 10 | New England | 1,889 | Y |
I only count 8. Btw, here's the top 10 passing teams (based on QB rating)... | Rank | Team | QB Rating | Playoffs? | | 1 | New Orleans | 103.9 | Y | | 2 | New England | 102.6 | Y | | 3 | Kansas City | 100.8 | Y | | 4 | Minnesota | 99.1 | Y | | 5 | Detroit | 98.4 | N | | 6 | L.A. Rams | 98.3 | Y | | 7 | Philadelphia | 97.6 | Y | | 8 | L.A. Chargers | 95.1 | N | | 9 | Seattle | 94.4 | N | | 10 | Pittsburgh | 94.1 | Y |
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Post by TEM on Jul 8, 2018 12:47:43 GMT -5
Last years playoff teams 9 of the top 10 rushing teams were in the playoffs. I think that Paradigm shift in itself is a trend getting away from the "its a Qb driven league" model . For most teams it is and has been a failed model. GMs are beginning to realize there are only so many great to good QBs to go around. There are never 32 and hardly ever 15. I see the trend to more or less being if you do not have the Qb to attack with . Find other means to be successful . Yeah, I've heard this statistic bandied about. So, I decided to look it up in confirmation. | Rank | Team | Rushing Yds. | Playoffs? | | 1 | Jacksonville | 2,262 | Y | | 2 | Dallas | 2,170 | N | | 3 | Philadelphia | 2,115 | Y | | 4 | Carolina | 2,102 | Y | | 5 | New Orleans | 2,070 | Y | | 6 | Buffalo | 2,017 | N | | 7 | Minnesota | 1,957 | Y | | 8 | L.A. Rams | 1,953 | Y | | 9 | Kansas City | 1,903 | Y | | 10 | New England | 1,889 | Y |
I only count 8. Btw, here's the top 10 passing teams (based on QB rating)... | Rank | Team | QB Rating | Playoffs? | | 1 | New Orleans | 103.9 | Y | | 2 | New England | 102.6 | Y | | 3 | Kansas City | 100.8 | Y | | 4 | Minnesota | 99.1 | Y | | 5 | Detroit | 98.4 | N | | 6 | L.A. Rams | 98.3 | Y | | 7 | Philadelphia | 97.6 | Y | | 8 | L.A. Chargers | 95.1 | N | | 9 | Seattle | 94.4 | N | | 10 | Pittsburgh | 94.1 | Y |
Buffalo lost to Jacksonville in the WC game 10-3 . I am not suggesting having a top Qb is not a lottery win I am saying teams that do not, are finding other means to be effective. That was not the norm 5 years ago. Jacksonville went to the AFC championship with an average QB. They are showing you do not have to keep replacing the Qb until you have a top 10- 15 QB. You can build a team around an average one. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 12:56:06 GMT -5
Yeah, I've heard this statistic bandied about. So, I decided to look it up in confirmation. | Rank | Team | Rushing Yds. | Playoffs? | | 1 | Jacksonville | 2,262 | Y | | 2 | Dallas | 2,170 | N | | 3 | Philadelphia | 2,115 | Y | | 4 | Carolina | 2,102 | Y | | 5 | New Orleans | 2,070 | Y | | 6 | Buffalo | 2,017 | N | | 7 | Minnesota | 1,957 | Y | | 8 | L.A. Rams | 1,953 | Y | | 9 | Kansas City | 1,903 | Y | | 10 | New England | 1,889 | Y |
I only count 8. Btw, here's the top 10 passing teams (based on QB rating)... | Rank | Team | QB Rating | Playoffs? | | 1 | New Orleans | 103.9 | Y | | 2 | New England | 102.6 | Y | | 3 | Kansas City | 100.8 | Y | | 4 | Minnesota | 99.1 | Y | | 5 | Detroit | 98.4 | N | | 6 | L.A. Rams | 98.3 | Y | | 7 | Philadelphia | 97.6 | Y | | 8 | L.A. Chargers | 95.1 | N | | 9 | Seattle | 94.4 | N | | 10 | Pittsburgh | 94.1 | Y |
Buffalo lost to Jacksonville in the WC game 10-3 . I am not suggesting having a top Qb is not a lottery win I am saying teams that do not, are finding other means to be effective. That was not the norm 5 years ago. Jacksonville went to the AFC championship with an average QB. They are showing you do not have to keep replacing the Qb until you have a top 10- 15 QB. You can build a team around an average one. You're right...my mistake. I WOULD quibble with your characterization of Blake Bortles as an "average QB". Despite the incessant piling-on with regard to Bortles, I think he is proving that he's a better-than-average QB. Based on what the Jaguars recently signed him for, it seems that they think so at least. |
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Post by TEM on Jul 8, 2018 13:12:39 GMT -5
Buffalo lost to Jacksonville in the WC game 10-3 . I am not suggesting having a top Qb is not a lottery win I am saying teams that do not, are finding other means to be effective. That was not the norm 5 years ago. Jacksonville went to the AFC championship with an average QB. They are showing you do not have to keep replacing the Qb until you have a top 10- 15 QB. You can build a team around an average one. You're right...my mistake. I WOULD quibble with your characterization of Blake Bortles as an "average QB". Despite the incessant piling-on with regard to Bortles, I think he is proving that he's a better-than-average QB. Based on what the Jaguars recently signed him for, it seems that they think so at least. Bortles is not a top Qb . He can keep the team in the game and allow other aspect of the team to provide what he lacks. IMO: The QB must put the team on his back and win is becoming a cliché. Some can do it, but most can not. Having a top Qb is a plus for any team. It makes everyone's job easier . Not having one is becoming a non excuse for no success. Running the ball is becoming fashionable once again. You want to build a Defensive unit that is designed to stop my passing attack. Ok try to stop this. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 15:16:10 GMT -5
You're right...my mistake. I WOULD quibble with your characterization of Blake Bortles as an "average QB". Despite the incessant piling-on with regard to Bortles, I think he is proving that he's a better-than-average QB. Based on what the Jaguars recently signed him for, it seems that they think so at least. Bortles is not a top Qb . He can keep the team in the game and allow other aspect of the team to provide what he lacks. IMO: The QB must put the team on his back and win is becoming a cliché. Some can do it, but most can not. Having a top Qb is a plus for any team. It makes everyone's job easier . Not having one is becoming a non excuse for no success. Running the ball is becoming fashionable once again. You want to build a Defensive unit that is designed to stop my passing attack. Ok try to stop this. Last 4 Super Bowl champions... | Year | Team | Quarterback | Running Back | | 2017 | Philadelphia Eagles | Carson Wentz/Nick Foles | LaGarrette Blount/Jay Ajayi | | 2016 | New England Patriots | Tom Brady | LaGarrette Blount | | 2015 | Denver Broncos | Peyton Manning | Ronnie Hillman | | 2014 | New England Patriots | Tom Brady | Shane Vereen/LaGarrette Blount |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 8, 2018 16:32:04 GMT -5
OK I will ask what about it. if you are suggesting the O-line was anything but what we witnessed for the past 5 + years . Please tell my why my eyes were deceiving me. The O-line was working as it stood, is a hard point to make. If it was anything that resembled a model of efficiency . Dave would not have revamped the entire unit. This graphic seems to suggest that the Giants O-line was mediocre in 2017. Not great, not even good, but...not terrible, either. It's PFF, though, so take it with a grain of salt. And, of course Dave revamped the entire unit. In order to make his case that Eli is the quarterback of the future he had to place an exaggerated portion of the blame for the inept offense at the feet of the O-linemen. He certainly couldn't have convinced fans that "everything is fine" after they watched the 2017 offense put up 15.4 ppg. the guys from PFF have admitted the giants pass blocking grade is greatly enhanced by the fact that they only have to block for 2.0 to 2.5 seconds, herd one of them say this on locked on Giants podcast, the ball is out quickly and they still weren't any good. |
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 8, 2018 16:52:26 GMT -5
Buffalo lost to Jacksonville in the WC game 10-3 . I am not suggesting having a top Qb is not a lottery win I am saying teams that do not, are finding other means to be effective. That was not the norm 5 years ago. Jacksonville went to the AFC championship with an average QB. They are showing you do not have to keep replacing the Qb until you have a top 10- 15 QB. You can build a team around an average one. You're right...my mistake. I WOULD quibble with your characterization of Blake Bortles as an "average QB". Despite the incessant piling-on with regard to Bortles, I think he is proving that he's a better-than-average QB. Based on what the Jaguars recently signed him for, it seems that they think so at least. You lost me at "Bortles is a better than average QB" He is bottom 10 of the 32 starters in my view.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 17:34:51 GMT -5
You're right...my mistake. I WOULD quibble with your characterization of Blake Bortles as an "average QB". Despite the incessant piling-on with regard to Bortles, I think he is proving that he's a better-than-average QB. Based on what the Jaguars recently signed him for, it seems that they think so at least. You lost me at "Bortles is a better than average QB" He is bottom 10 of the 32 starters in my view.
They pay bottom 10 quarterbacks $50+ million? Also, Bortles was 11th in passing last year. Eli was 15th. Do you consider Eli bottom 10? |
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Post by Speedman on Jul 8, 2018 17:50:29 GMT -5
You lost me at "Bortles is a better than average QB" He is bottom 10 of the 32 starters in my view.
They pay bottom 10 quarterbacks $50+ million? Also, Bortles was 11th in passing last year. Eli was 15th. Do you consider Eli bottom 10? $50 mil for a non rookie QB is bottom 10. |
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Post by jaymas on Jul 8, 2018 22:21:10 GMT -5
Bortles is not a top Qb . He can keep the team in the game and allow other aspect of the team to provide what he lacks. IMO: The QB must put the team on his back and win is becoming a cliché. Some can do it, but most can not. Having a top Qb is a plus for any team. It makes everyone's job easier . Not having one is becoming a non excuse for no success. Running the ball is becoming fashionable once again. You want to build a Defensive unit that is designed to stop my passing attack. Ok try to stop this. Last 4 Super Bowl champions... | Year | Team | Quarterback | Running Back | | 2017 | Philadelphia Eagles | Carson Wentz/Nick Foles | LaGarrette Blount/Jay Ajayi | | 2016 | New England Patriots | Tom Brady | LaGarrette Blount | | 2015 | Denver Broncos | Peyton Manning | Ronnie Hillman | | 2014 | New England Patriots | Tom Brady | Shane Vereen/LaGarrette Blount |
Guess Blount is the key to Superbowls. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 22:24:26 GMT -5
Last 4 Super Bowl champions... | Year | Team | Quarterback | Running Back | | 2017 | Philadelphia Eagles | Carson Wentz/Nick Foles | LaGarrette Blount/Jay Ajayi | | 2016 | New England Patriots | Tom Brady | LaGarrette Blount | | 2015 | Denver Broncos | Peyton Manning | Ronnie Hillman | | 2014 | New England Patriots | Tom Brady | Shane Vereen/LaGarrette Blount |
Guess Blount is the key to Superbowls. Lol. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 8, 2018 22:31:25 GMT -5
Last 4 Super Bowl champions... | Year | Team | Quarterback | Running Back | | 2017 | Philadelphia Eagles | Carson Wentz/Nick Foles | LaGarrette Blount/Jay Ajayi | | 2016 | New England Patriots | Tom Brady | LaGarrette Blount | | 2015 | Denver Broncos | Peyton Manning | Ronnie Hillman | | 2014 | New England Patriots | Tom Brady | Shane Vereen/LaGarrette Blount |
Guess Blount is the key to Superbowls. That's pretty obvious. Imagine if Barkley is the new Blount only y'know much better. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 0:30:22 GMT -5
Guess Blount is the key to Superbowls. That's pretty obvious. Imagine if Barkley is the new Blount only y'know much better. Adam Vinatieri won four Super Bowls between two teams (the Patriots and the Colts). Clearly, he was the key to Super Bowls before Blount. |
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Jaydub
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Post by Jaydub on Jul 9, 2018 5:18:51 GMT -5
You lost me at "Bortles is a better than average QB" He is bottom 10 of the 32 starters in my view.
They pay bottom 10 quarterbacks $50+ million? Also, Bortles was 11th in passing last year. Eli was 15th. Do you consider Eli bottom 10? In the NFL, QB's get paid, even the bad ones. Bortles is nowhere near to being better than average. In fact, I wouldn't even call him average. Guy is terrible, and the Jags will more than likely regret wasting that money
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Post by TEM on Jul 9, 2018 5:49:19 GMT -5
They pay bottom 10 quarterbacks $50+ million? Also, Bortles was 11th in passing last year. Eli was 15th. Do you consider Eli bottom 10? In the NFL, QB's get paid, even the bad ones. Bortles is nowhere near to being better than average. In fact, I wouldn't even call him average. Guy is terrible, and the Jags will more than likely regret wasting that money
He was good enough to get them within 5 points of going to the Super bowl. The team went 3-13 in the 16 season to AFC Championship game last season. You can not take that away from him. He may not be great but. He plays well enough to allow the players around him to compensate for what he lacks. IMO: not a top 10 QB and not below average. Some where in between. |
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 9, 2018 6:46:48 GMT -5
You lost me at "Bortles is a better than average QB" He is bottom 10 of the 32 starters in my view.
They pay bottom 10 quarterbacks $50+ million? Also, Bortles was 11th in passing last year. Eli was 15th. Do you consider Eli bottom 10? They do when they don't have better options. Sometimes you just have to pay a guy....like Flacco several years ago. Last year I was told there was no way Bortles would be resigned, and if you remember, Eli was going to be traded to Jax, according to some fans. I told them they WOULD resign Bortles. I did because they were pretty much stuck with him and they felt they could still win with him with enough pieces around him.
Do I think Eli is better than Bortles? Hard to say. Different kinds of players. Eli is a hell of a lot better passer than Bortles. Bortles does other things much better. Bortles is much better amid a pass rush..which is needed in today's league. Honestly, I think they are both bottom 10.
And stop with the passing stats.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 9:32:38 GMT -5
They pay bottom 10 quarterbacks $50+ million? Also, Bortles was 11th in passing last year. Eli was 15th. Do you consider Eli bottom 10? They do when they don't have better options... Seems like Jacksonville might have been an attractive spot to land for Kirk Cousins. The Jags re-signed Bortles weeks before the Kirk Cousins sweepstakes began. Is it possible that Jacksonville just likes Bortles? |
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Post by GameTime on Jul 9, 2018 9:39:31 GMT -5
They do when they don't have better options... Seems like Jacksonville might have been an attractive spot to land for Kirk Cousins. The Jags re-signed Bortles weeks before the Kirk Cousins sweepstakes began. Is it possible that Jacksonville just likes Bortles? QB can be a crap shoot even with coming out of a rookie contract. It’s a gamble Jax is obviously willing to take. Nothing more nothing less. So hard to find a great/very good QB. Most teams have to find ways to win with just serviceable QBs. |
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Post by Parademon1 on Jul 9, 2018 12:56:34 GMT -5
Great posts TEM. It seems that this generation of fans that never saw what a power run game can do for a team, like those of us that grew up in the 80s-90s even early 2000s, did. You hit the nail on the head with your "not every team has a great QB that can carry them" quote. There are maybe 12 QB sthat might fit that mode, the rest of today's NFL QBs fall in the "good, mediocre to flat out bad" mode. Teams that have those QBs have to find other ways to win games & that is with a power run game. I guarantee that if a team wins the next SB based on mostly having a smashmouth power run game, the next yr, that's what teams will be copying as we all know, the NFL is a copycat league.
Looking back at the Giants 2 SB wins vs NE is a perfect example of that. NE had a decent run game those 2 yrs but we all know that it was due to Brady 7 the passing attack that they were successful. The Giants knew that the key to victory was containing Brady as their run game was not a facot for the Giants D to fear.
Brady's passing stats in SB 42 29 com-48 att 266yds 1TD Rush stats 16 att- 45yds 1 TD
Brady's passing stats in SB 46 27 com 41 att 276yds 2 TDs 1 int Rush stats 19 att- 83yds 0TD
so their 2 game total running the ball was 35 att for 128yds for 3.6 ypc & 1 TD or 17.5 carries for 64yds per game. IMO, if NE ran for over 100yds in both games, they win the games.
In contrast, let's say you run the ball for 185+yds & pass for 200yds you accomplish a few things, you move the chains, eat up clock, put up pts & you give your D plenty of rest. The thing a lot of you Eli bashers don't seem to understand is that at this point in Eli's career, we don't need him to win games single handidly like he seemed to do in 2011. With SB in the backfield, all Eli has to do is make sure that he doesn't turn the ball over via a fumble or Int, completes the short to intermediate range passes & sprinkles in a few long ones to keep the D honest. In other words, become a game manager. I feel that going into 2018, Eli won't have the pressure of having to win a game solely with his arm, if a D commits to stacking the box, I believe he will have a field day passing the ball due to the plethora of weapons he will have at his disposal. I really find it hard to believe a D will contain both our run/pass attack in the same game, they may negate one or the other but not both. SB is the main reason why. Opposing DCs will for the 1st time in 5yrs, have to worry about our run game & a specific RB, to go along with how they're gonna negate OBJ, Shep, Engram & even Gallman.
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