Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 8:22:01 GMT -5
Other than trading down (which requires a partner) what else should the Giants have done?
Draft a QB?- According to DG, none of them worth the #2. Also, they would be getting paid good money to sit for a year maybe 2. Waste of money for now.
Draft a DE?- A more "premiere" positions which might have pacified some fans here who are concerned mainly about the cap hit. But since we want to see rings, show me the ringz on the fingers of Mario Williams or Clowney? So much hype for them two but DG understands you need to build a team and not one player will lead you to the promised land.
Draft Barkley- Instant injection of offense on a team thirsty for points the last 2 years. No brainer IMO.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 8:23:10 GMT -5
Hot damn! I would love to hear Bell’s comments on this one! Would love to see someone ask him how he'd do in a 40 now as a follow up. |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Jul 23, 2018 8:24:03 GMT -5
Readiness to play does not change the scale. It was set by the CBA. From what I understood. Rookies were getting ridiculously large contracts. The Vet players felt that cap space would be best used to pay them . It is more of a pay celling than , Wow that is a lot of money. I think the rookie scale is based on % of Salrey cap. O.K., thanks for the explanation, as always. Obviously, Barkley will start right away, get plenty of touches, very few uncertainties about how he can contribute in multiple ways, and will be a focus for opposing defenses game planning. This vs. what our team would be paying for a different drafted player who would wait and hopefully develop should make the decision easier to swallow, for those who wanted a QB instead. I agree |
|
|
|
Post by Roswell on Jul 23, 2018 8:29:31 GMT -5
It's our problem when the organization ties up cap space by overpaying for a less-valuable position. So, it's not that paying a punter $30 million would be a waste of John Mara's money (I couldn't care less)...it's that a rather large percentage of our cap space would be eaten up by a freakin' punter. It doesn't strike you as a bit odd that Saquon Barkley hasn't even snapped on NFL pads yet and he's already the 4th highest-paid running back in the league? No, the way the NFL works drives me crazy and the money pro aesthetes make is absurd but everything is relevant and in the NFL world of "today"it's the price you pay to get better,it's the way the league works. I understand the frustration. There are people who believe that a player should be paid based on past performance and they deserve to get rewarded. The problem is that In the NFL careers are so short that this approach usually turns into a bad investment. The Giants hands were tied based on their slot in the draft. If anyone is bent out of shape regarding the money and term, I suggest you consider that he’s a game breaking RB that is at an age and “mileage” that will bring the greatest return for his position. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 9:42:25 GMT -5
So, if a punter was drafted with the #2...you'd argue that that was a good investment of $30 million. The football organization knows what they are going to pay for a #2 pick regardless of position. I can’t understand why people care what the football organization pays its players. It’s their problem not ours. I don't care about the Giants organization in the way you're framing it. I care about the Giants winning football games and the salary cap is a huge component to roster management. Roster quality typically equates to wins. It's like I posted about on the old board leading up to the draft: AAV. Successful teams are getting a lot of value off of their rookie contracts. Just look at the meteoric rise of the Seahawks (and subsequent plummet). The core of their team were playing on rookie contracts and they were exceptional starters. Therefore the AAV was off the charts for them. Which allowed them to go out and supplement the starting roster with strategic FA signings. As many of us noted with Barkley.... at the #2 slotting he's going to be paid as one of the league's top RBs. Therefore he has to immediately perform as one of the top RBs in the NFL just to net out on his value. Hell in 2018 he will be the top paid RB in the NFL. IMO he needs to perform as the top RB in the league in order to have value. This contract basically says, "if Barkley performs as a top RB in the NFL then the Giants are getting great production but no real value. If Barkley is a middle of the pack RB, then the Giants are vastly overpaying him from the get-go and getting no value whatsoever." |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 9:47:25 GMT -5
Where one has been drafted dictates the amount of money. The only negotiation is the guarantee money ie Bonus and annual contract. The Giants (NFL) have made money on Barkley jerseys, without playing a game. I thought that was the case which is why I’m befuddled as to why we’d discuss the terms as if they were negotiated or even relevant to the rest the league. I don't know about anyone else but I'm not discussing the contract because we all knew what it would be like due to slotting. I'm discussing it as compared to his position and where he ranks in terms of its contract value. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 9:53:03 GMT -5
Draft a DE?- A more "premiere" positions which might have pacified some fans here who are concerned mainly about the cap hit. But since we want to see rings, show me the ringz on the fingers of Mario Williams or Clowney? So much hype for them two but DG understands you need to build a team and not one player will lead you to the promised land. SB MVP also. And his team just drafted his counterpart on the opposite side at #5. And will be getting great value for him.  |
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Jul 23, 2018 9:54:19 GMT -5
Hot damn! I would love to hear Bell’s comments on this one! I can’t imagine why. Bell either understands the agreement his union negotiated for him and under which he works or he can have his agent explain the CBA to him. Either way it’s completely irrelevant. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 9:55:10 GMT -5
No, the way the NFL works drives me crazy and the money pro aesthetes make is absurd but everything is relevant and in the NFL world of "today"it's the price you pay to get better,it's the way the league works. I understand the frustration. There are people who believe that a player should be paid based on past performance and they deserve to get rewarded. The problem is that In the NFL careers are so short that this approach usually turns into a bad investment. The Giants hands were tied based on their slot in the draft. If anyone is bent out of shape regarding the money and term, I suggest you consider that he’s a game breaking RB that is at an age and “mileage” that will bring the greatest return for his position. No one knows if he is in the NFL. |
|
|
|
Post by Delicreep on Jul 23, 2018 11:08:43 GMT -5
The football organization knows what they are going to pay for a #2 pick regardless of position. I can’t understand why people care what the football organization pays its players. It’s their problem not ours. As many of us noted with Barkley.... at the #2 slotting he's going to be paid as one of the league's top RBs. Therefore he has to immediately perform as one of the top RBs in the NFL just to net out on his value. Hell in 2018 he will be the top paid RB in the NFL. IMO he needs to perform as the top RB in the league in order to have value. This contract basically says, "if Barkley performs as a top RB in the NFL then the Giants are getting great production but no real value. If Barkley is a middle of the pack RB, then the Giants are vastly overpaying him from the get-go and getting no value whatsoever." Now...I'm just a small town country boy, but this logic seems absolutely indisputable to me. |
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Jul 23, 2018 11:29:21 GMT -5
The football organization knows what they are going to pay for a #2 pick regardless of position. I can’t understand why people care what the football organization pays its players. It’s their problem not ours. I don't care about the Giants organization in the way your framing it. I care about the Giants winning football games and the salary cap is a huge component to roster management. Roster quality typically equates to wins. It's like I posted about on the old board leading up to the draft: AAV. Successful teams are getting a lot of value off of their rookie contracts. Just look at the meteoric rise of the Seahawks (and subsequent plummet). The core of their team were playing on rookie contracts and they were exceptional starters. Therefore the AAV was off the charts for them. Which allowed them to go out and supplement the starting roster with strategic FA signings. As many of us noted with Barkley.... at the #2 slotting he's going to be paid as one of the league's top RBs. Therefore he has to immediately perform as one of the top RBs in the NFL just to net out on his value. Hell in 2018 he will be the top paid RB in the NFL. IMO he needs to perform as the top RB in the league in order to have value. This contract basically says, "if Barkley performs as a top RB in the NFL then the Giants are getting great production but no real value. If Barkley is a middle of the pack RB, then the Giants are vastly overpaying him from the get-go and getting no value whatsoever." At least Barkley has the potential to do it. Whether he does or not depends on a lot of things, some in his hands, some not. I'm looking forward to see his overall impact on the offense. If he can bring the opposing D's closer to the line, opening things for Odell, Sterling and Even, it will add serious potency to the O. Stats don't always tell the whole story. Personally, I was in the pick a QB if they thought one of them was good enough or trade down. I've moved past it. |
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Jul 23, 2018 11:35:14 GMT -5
For most of us that were not in favor of the pick, the economics were 90% of the problem (getting a ton of draft capital back on a trade made up most of the rest). On field he projects to be a really really good player. I was over my opinion the night of the draft. Sorry I don't buy it. We (the Giants) spent money on a possible pick that can help us now or spend it on a QB that might or might not help you down the road.To say "money " was going to be the problem is in my opinion just BS.You would have to spend it one way or the other. You’re not getting the issue |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 12:01:36 GMT -5
You’re not getting the issue Yes I do, I just don't think it's as big an issue as others do. Why don't you??? I would rather have another three high draft players on their rookie contracts moving forward than one over priced one... |
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Jul 23, 2018 12:10:31 GMT -5
Why don't you??? I would rather have another three high draft players on their rookie contracts moving forward than one over priced one... I said way before the draft that I would have rather traded down and done just that becuase I did not think Barkley would fall to us , once he was there like it or not it was the right pick .I was pointing out to all the fans that wanted a QB @ #2 that the money situation would be close to the sames (give or take) so for the ones that said money was a concern I disagree. If we weren’t taking a QB, I wanted to trade down as well. But that requires a willing partner. |
|
Martin
Starter
Posts: 3,239
Member is Online
|
Post by Martin on Jul 23, 2018 12:11:35 GMT -5
Are we talking about a RB?? no? If we are then its a position that takes lots of punishment. Its a very injury prone position. In some cases career ending injury. Give me a break the contract is insane!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Speedman on Jul 23, 2018 12:39:12 GMT -5
The football organization knows what they are going to pay for a #2 pick regardless of position. I can’t understand why people care what the football organization pays its players. It’s their problem not ours. It's our problem when the organization ties up cap space by overpaying for a less-valuable position. So, it's not that paying a punter $30 million would be a waste of John Mara's money (I couldn't care less)...it's that a rather large percentage of our cap space would be eaten up by a freakin' punter. It doesn't strike you as a bit odd that Saquon Barkley hasn't even snapped on NFL pads yet and he's already the 4th highest-paid running back in the league? The Giants pay people to worry about cap space and I don't think anyone on this board is on the payroll. |
|
|
|
Post by Speedman on Jul 23, 2018 13:05:14 GMT -5
The football organization knows what they are going to pay for a #2 pick regardless of position. I can’t understand why people care what the football organization pays its players. It’s their problem not ours. Um, because there is a salary cap and the distribution of money among players could affect your team’s ability to compete. Is that something that fans need to worry about since they have no control over it? |
|
|
|
Post by Speedman on Jul 23, 2018 14:01:16 GMT -5
The football organization knows what they are going to pay for a #2 pick regardless of position. I can’t understand why people care what the football organization pays its players. It’s their problem not ours. I don't care about the Giants organization in the way you're framing it. I care about the Giants winning football games and the salary cap is a huge component to roster management. Roster quality typically equates to wins. It's like I posted about on the old board leading up to the draft: AAV. Successful teams are getting a lot of value off of their rookie contracts. Just look at the meteoric rise of the Seahawks (and subsequent plummet). The core of their team were playing on rookie contracts and they were exceptional starters. Therefore the AAV was off the charts for them. Which allowed them to go out and supplement the starting roster with strategic FA signings. As many of us noted with Barkley.... at the #2 slotting he's going to be paid as one of the league's top RBs. Therefore he has to immediately perform as one of the top RBs in the NFL just to net out on his value. Hell in 2018 he will be the top paid RB in the NFL. IMO he needs to perform as the top RB in the league in order to have value. This contract basically says, "if Barkley performs as a top RB in the NFL then the Giants are getting great production but no real value. If Barkley is a middle of the pack RB, then the Giants are vastly overpaying him from the get-go and getting no value whatsoever." You are wasting your time debating this issue. Who in the FO cares what you think? They have people that they pay to worry about the cap and the fans are not on the payroll. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 14:10:13 GMT -5
Why are you posting out here speedman???
|
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Jul 23, 2018 14:17:40 GMT -5
I don't care about the Giants organization in the way you're framing it. I care about the Giants winning football games and the salary cap is a huge component to roster management. Roster quality typically equates to wins. It's like I posted about on the old board leading up to the draft: AAV. Successful teams are getting a lot of value off of their rookie contracts. Just look at the meteoric rise of the Seahawks (and subsequent plummet). The core of their team were playing on rookie contracts and they were exceptional starters. Therefore the AAV was off the charts for them. Which allowed them to go out and supplement the starting roster with strategic FA signings. As many of us noted with Barkley.... at the #2 slotting he's going to be paid as one of the league's top RBs. Therefore he has to immediately perform as one of the top RBs in the NFL just to net out on his value. Hell in 2018 he will be the top paid RB in the NFL. IMO he needs to perform as the top RB in the league in order to have value. This contract basically says, "if Barkley performs as a top RB in the NFL then the Giants are getting great production but no real value. If Barkley is a middle of the pack RB, then the Giants are vastly overpaying him from the get-go and getting no value whatsoever." You are wasting your time debating this issue. Who in the FO cares what you think? They have people that they pay to worry about the cap and the fans are not on the payroll. Using that criteria (whether the FO cares what we think) why should fans debate any topic? Why have a message board at all? |
|
|
|
Post by Delicreep on Jul 23, 2018 15:45:49 GMT -5
Sorry I don't buy it. We (the Giants) spent money on a possible pick that can help us now or spend it on a QB that might or might not help you down the road.To say "money " was going to be the problem is in my opinion just BS.You would have to spend it one way or the other. You’re not getting the issue While I am on your side on this, there is another side to it: We were taking player A with our #2 pick. What position(s) would make the slotted salary for a #2 pick a solid financial decision? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 16:16:17 GMT -5
I don't care about the Giants organization in the way you're framing it. I care about the Giants winning football games and the salary cap is a huge component to roster management. Roster quality typically equates to wins. It's like I posted about on the old board leading up to the draft: AAV. Successful teams are getting a lot of value off of their rookie contracts. Just look at the meteoric rise of the Seahawks (and subsequent plummet). The core of their team were playing on rookie contracts and they were exceptional starters. Therefore the AAV was off the charts for them. Which allowed them to go out and supplement the starting roster with strategic FA signings. As many of us noted with Barkley.... at the #2 slotting he's going to be paid as one of the league's top RBs. Therefore he has to immediately perform as one of the top RBs in the NFL just to net out on his value. Hell in 2018 he will be the top paid RB in the NFL. IMO he needs to perform as the top RB in the league in order to have value. This contract basically says, "if Barkley performs as a top RB in the NFL then the Giants are getting great production but no real value. If Barkley is a middle of the pack RB, then the Giants are vastly overpaying him from the get-go and getting no value whatsoever." You are wasting your time debating this issue. Who in the FO cares what you think? They have people that they pay to worry about the cap and the fans are not on the payroll. Ok. By your logic: 1. You always trust the FO and never consider anyone else’s perspective. Which leads me to ask: were you a rat on the sinking USS Reese? Was your last breath, “The FO knows more than you!” 2. Why do you ever post on here? After all you consider your own opinion about the Giants meaningless. So why even put it out there to engage? 3. You don’t watch any NFL shows, listen to any sports radio or read any articles about the Giants. |
|
|
|
Post by Speedman on Jul 23, 2018 19:13:09 GMT -5
You are wasting your time debating this issue. Who in the FO cares what you think? They have people that they pay to worry about the cap and the fans are not on the payroll. Using that criteria (whether the FO cares what we think) why should fans debate any topic? Why have a message board at all? There are plenty of topics fans can debate. Is the FA they just signed a good player for example. Is the player that they drafted a good player. The money doesn’t matter. Most players in the league are overpaid. |
|
|
|
Post by Speedman on Jul 23, 2018 19:28:28 GMT -5
You are wasting your time debating this issue. Who in the FO cares what you think? They have people that they pay to worry about the cap and the fans are not on the payroll. Ok. By your logic: 1. You always trust the FO and never consider anyone else’s perspective. Which leads me to ask: were you a rat on the sinking USS Reese? Was your last breath, “The FO knows more than you!” 2. Why do you ever post on here? After all you consider your own opinion about the Giants meaningless. So why even put it out there to engage? 3. You don’t watch any NFL shows, listen to any sports radio or read any articles about the Giants. 1. There are very few people that I trust. Resse’s ship sunk because he thought the OL was good enough to win with. He drafted some good and some not so good players. 2. See my post above. All of our opinions are meaningless to the Giants unless they hit them in their pockets. 3. Sometimes. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 21:05:32 GMT -5
It's our problem when the organization ties up cap space by overpaying for a less-valuable position. So, it's not that paying a punter $30 million would be a waste of John Mara's money (I couldn't care less)...it's that a rather large percentage of our cap space would be eaten up by a freakin' punter. It doesn't strike you as a bit odd that Saquon Barkley hasn't even snapped on NFL pads yet and he's already the 4th highest-paid running back in the league? The Giants pay people to worry about cap space and I don't think anyone on this board is on the payroll. Well, you've convinced me. We should all just go watch "American Idol", as the only opinions that matter are Dave Gettleman's and John Mara's. Can the last one out please cut the lights? Thanks. |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Jul 23, 2018 21:09:29 GMT -5
The Giants pay people to worry about cap space and I don't think anyone on this board is on the payroll. Well, you've convinced me. We should all just go watch "American Idol", as the only opinions that matter are Dave Gettleman's and John Mara's. Can the last one out please cut the lights? Thanks. What if the last one out is afraid of the dark? Is there a night light? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 22:37:53 GMT -5
Well, you've convinced me. We should all just go watch "American Idol", as the only opinions that matter are Dave Gettleman's and John Mara's. Can the last one out please cut the lights? Thanks. What if the last one out is afraid of the dark? Is there a night light? I don't know. Ask Dave Gettleman. |
|
|
|
Post by moecoastie on Jul 23, 2018 22:41:19 GMT -5
First off...glad to see familiar names.
Most here are so dramatic as far as paying a RB. The difference between an average running back pay and saquons cap hit per year is literally 2 million dollars! Really? The giants are entering the dark ages because, in your opinion, they overpaid a guy 2 MIL?
FYI, most if not all first round rookie contracts are guaranteed.
You don't build a championship team shopping for bargains. You pick the best players possible
Also, drafting QBs high has more to do with talent, need, and supply rather than the financial aspect. The financial benefit is a byproduct of the rookie salary cap.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Jul 23, 2018 22:48:38 GMT -5
First off...glad to see familiar names. Most here are so dramatic as far as paying a RB. The difference between an average running back pay and saquons cap hit per year is literally 2 million dollars! Really? The giants are entering the dark ages because, in your opinion, they overpaid a guy 2 MIL? FYI, most if not all first round rookie contracts are guaranteed. You don't build a championship team shopping for bargains. You pick the best players possible Also, drafting QBs high has more to do with talent, need, and supply rather than the financial aspect. The financial benefit is a byproduct of the rookie salary cap. Nice to see you, moe; welcome aboard! |
|
