giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,899
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Post by giantsalmon on Sept 3, 2019 20:19:15 GMT -5
I've just felt 10-6 for a while so I'm sticking to it. The TEAM aspect is not just a made up coaches theme--its real. It can galvanize an organization and I definitely think all the poor predictions and shots at DJ have given them the "us against the world" feeling. Sure this is all hokey until the helmets start knocking for real, but I have felt all along if NYG can jump out at least 2--1 they will win the division.
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Post by SG88 on Sept 3, 2019 20:40:49 GMT -5
6-10. We are shaky at QB, putrid at rushing the QB, and have a lot of youth on defense. This isn't our year. Next year I see a potential division title happening. I hope for a lot better this season, but I'm not expecting much from the giants of 2019.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Sept 3, 2019 21:24:36 GMT -5
If we can get to 8-8 (or better), I'll be a happy camper! To be honest, it is the defense I worry about this year! This is true for most of us.
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Post by IrishMike on Sept 4, 2019 7:03:06 GMT -5
I would say we might have less talent but I’m not sure we will be a worse team. Seeing players getting cut after after getting down to 53 gives me somewhat of an uneasy feeling. I think it was 2017 when we saw Reese signing and releasing guys right up to game 1. Last year we made a lot of moves after cut down day as well. This year our moves were somewhat limited, but that fact that we’re still active tells us what the coaches think about our depth. I think most teams around the NFL make changes to their roster after 53. Always trying to improve and get an advantage.
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Post by IrishMike on Sept 4, 2019 7:04:24 GMT -5
You do realize there is also game film on the blueprint to how to stop us(Tennessee...simple mid level zone with 7 in the box blitzing Barkley every play and sitting on the underneath stuff] Unless they can control the weather it'll be tough to do what Tennessee did.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 4, 2019 7:19:55 GMT -5
You do realize there is also game film on the blueprint to how to stop us(Tennessee...simple mid level zone with 7 in the box blitzing Barkley every play and sitting on the underneath stuff] Unless they can control the weather it'll be tough to do what Tennessee did. This had nothing to do with the weather,people need to stop with the weather excuse to justify having low standards for our recieving group Their scheme took away everything Shurmer wants to do and were able to run blitz out of their mid level zone.
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Post by TheAussieGiant on Sept 4, 2019 7:26:02 GMT -5
9-7
Had a look at the schedule. I think our wins and losses will come in bunches. 4 wins in a row get everyone excited. 3 losses in a row get everyone ready to overhaul the whole roster. That’s my prediction lol.
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Post by bigblueones on Sept 4, 2019 7:27:24 GMT -5
I think you're doing the revisionist history here. I never said we didn't have superstars on offense. Maybe we just have different definitions of "superstar" receiver. You said superstar receiving corps, I just didn't see it that way. They were fantastic for A YEAR. They were not fantastic for a span of time and I'm thinking of Carter and Moss and Jerry Rice and Taylor for example, or Swann in Pitt. But you got me, I was thinking the 2007 D, not the 2011 and you're right, they were not that great on D. That was my error. No they were world class talent.. Ronnie barnes ruined Nicks career prematurely after his knee injury in 2012 with his usual misdiagnosis or he would have set records with this team Cruz we saw what happened You cannot say that we are better off on offense with this middling piddling unit than ybe 2011 unit I never said we are better on offense with our current group. I merely said we're going 9-7 and gave my reasons why. I think SB and Engram have a LOT to do with it, more than the WR group. I'm really curious is SterlingS lights it up this year, this is HIS year to show if he can step up.
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Post by IrishMike on Sept 4, 2019 7:34:10 GMT -5
Unless they can control the weather it'll be tough to do what Tennessee did. This had nothing to do with the weather,people need to stop with the weather excuse to justify having low standards for our recieving group Their scheme took away everything Shurmer wants to do and were able to run blitz out of their mid level zone. Yes I forgot weather does not effect anything. A shame that the Colts and Cowboys didn't watch any film before playing us the following two weeks.
I guess everyone will shut us out once they realize that Tennessee did it.
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Post by jmike on Sept 4, 2019 7:43:20 GMT -5
I think many have missed the plot here.
Any improvement or decline the Giants' offense will have this year has nothing to do with the loss of OBJ. It won't be because of the 40 yo QB. Not Barkley either because he is great regardless of who is out there with him. Not some talented, limited and oft injured TE or "complimentary" receivers. The difference for good or ill will rest on 3 players and how they perform. Zeitler, Halapio and Hernandez. Those three will, more than anyone else, determine the success or failure of this offense.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 4, 2019 7:49:19 GMT -5
This had nothing to do with the weather,people need to stop with the weather excuse to justify having low standards for our recieving group Their scheme took away everything Shurmer wants to do and were able to run blitz out of their mid level zone. Yes I forgot weather does not effect anything. A shame that the Colts and Cowboys didn't watch any film before playing us the following two weeks.
I guess everyone will shut us out once they realize that Tennessee did it.
Because the Colts and Cowboys played a 2 deep zone and allowed the underneath stuff underneath and allowed YAC yards while keeping a safety around close enough to run blitz every play And there is game film of those 2 games for teams to now see and pick through to see that a mid level zone with 7 in the box will contain our offense enough while ybe other team scores at will on our young defense to make us the 7-9 team I think we are
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 4, 2019 7:51:01 GMT -5
I think many have missed the plot here. Any improvement or decline the Giants' offense will have this year has nothing to do with the loss of OBJ. It won't be because of the 40 yo QB. Not Barkley either because he is great regardless of who is out there with him. Not some talented, limited and oft injured TE or "complimentary" receivers. The difference for good or ill will rest on 3 players and how they perform. Zeitler, Halapio and Hernandez. Those three will, more than anyone else, determine the success or failure of this offense. Dallas had the best O line in the league and Zeke and were impotent until they got Cooper,who was able to pull people out of the box for Zeke and the underneath for Beasely We dont have that player
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Post by IrishMike on Sept 4, 2019 8:02:03 GMT -5
Because the Colts and Cowboys played a 2 deep zone and allowed the underneath stuff underneath and allowed YAC yards while keeping a safety around close enough to run blitz every play And there is game film of those 2 games for teams to now see and pick through to see that a mid level zone with 7 in the box will contain our offense enough while ybe other team scores at will on our young defense to make us the 7-9 team I think we are Well that is strange that they didn't study the game film from a week prior when we got shut out and simply run the same defense.
Sorry I just don't buy into this idea that people will simply look at what Tennessee did and shut us out. I also don't believe that the weather had no effect on this game. We averaged 31 points the second half without that game. We scored 0 in that game. Do you think teams will study that game and compare to the others and be able to keep us under 14 points? 10 points? 3 points? I seriously doubt it.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 4, 2019 8:11:57 GMT -5
Because the Colts and Cowboys played a 2 deep zone and allowed the underneath stuff underneath and allowed YAC yards while keeping a safety around close enough to run blitz every play And there is game film of those 2 games for teams to now see and pick through to see that a mid level zone with 7 in the box will contain our offense enough while ybe other team scores at will on our young defense to make us the 7-9 team I think we are Well that is strange that they didn't study the game film from a week prior when we got shut out and simply run the same defense.
Sorry I just don't buy into this idea that people will simply look at what Tennessee did and shut us out. I also don't believe that the weather had no effect on this game. We averaged 31 points the second half without that game. We scored 0 in that game. Do you think teams will study that game and compare to the others and be able to keep us under 14 points? 10 points? 3 points? I seriously doubt it.
4 games with Odell 1 game where we put up 41 on a team that played us the absolute worst way you can play us(8 in the box zero high safety)with a back like Barkley and was demoralized by the 2nd quarter.. You had a 2 game blip at the end of the season that fans seem to think os the reason why this team is going to be a good offense with a bunch of complimentary pieces at best that scare nobody in the passing game This is a good offense in the modern era and what will be required to have a winning record to compensate for young defense that's going to give up a lot of points and yards while taking lumps with growing pains 27 plus points a game 275 in the air 120 on the ground We dont have the firepower this year to do this. Sorry 7-9 Cee Dee Lamb or someone next year in the draft is the difference maker on offense while the defense is a year more experienced and we go 11-5 with Jones as starter
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Post by jmike on Sept 4, 2019 8:15:18 GMT -5
I think many have missed the plot here. Any improvement or decline the Giants' offense will have this year has nothing to do with the loss of OBJ. It won't be because of the 40 yo QB. Not Barkley either because he is great regardless of who is out there with him. Not some talented, limited and oft injured TE or "complimentary" receivers. The difference for good or ill will rest on 3 players and how they perform. Zeitler, Halapio and Hernandez. Those three will, more than anyone else, determine the success or failure of this offense. Dallas had the best O line in the league and Zeke and were impotent until they got Cooper,who was able to pull people out of the box for Zeke and the underneath for Beasely We dont have that player Thanks....irrelevant to my point but the silence needed filling. Good service you are providing there.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 4, 2019 8:20:46 GMT -5
Dallas had the best O line in the league and Zeke and were impotent until they got Cooper,who was able to pull people out of the box for Zeke and the underneath for Beasely We dont have that player Thanks....irrelevant to my point but the silence needed filling. Good service you are providing there. No it is quite relevant to the point if you comprehend You said our O line will make our offense better even with pedestrian playmakers and I pointed out an example where indeed an outside playmaker added made an entire offense better. Your dickish snark being ignored this time
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Post by bigblueones on Sept 4, 2019 8:43:45 GMT -5
I think the combo of Tate and Engram with the skills of Sterling Shepard make this team better than you think it will be. That is not a meek group there. Not world class, but they will have to be respected. I honestly think Engram is the key if he stays healthy.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 4, 2019 8:50:38 GMT -5
I think the combo of Tate and Engram with the skills of Sterling Shepard make this team better than you think it will be. That is not a meek group there. Not world class, but they will have to be respected. I honestly think Engram is the key if he stays healthy. Those guys operate best in space inside the 15 yard box Teams will be hanging in this area because we don't have anyone to scare teams enough to back out of this unless Slayton by some miracle steps up Meaning this team doesnt have the required firepower to keep up when teams take advantage of our young defense 2020 when we get this guy is when we will be cooking with fire
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Post by jmike on Sept 4, 2019 8:54:27 GMT -5
Thanks....irrelevant to my point but the silence needed filling. Good service you are providing there. No it is quite relevant to the point if you comprehend You said our O line will make our offense better even with pedestrian playmakers and I pointed out an example where indeed an outside playmaker added made an entire offense better. Your dickish snark being ignored this time I was talking about the Giants, not the Cowboys. The Giants biggest problem over the last several years, that effected every aspect of what they try offensively was the interior offensive line. Until that improves, it matters little what else they have at other positions. Hernandez has one more season of experience, Zietler is worlds better than any RG since Snee and Halapio is supposedly better than the C last season. Hopefully this fixes the interior line issues which would allow the other positions to start mattering again. Without an outside threat they will continue to have situational deficiencies, but at least with good interior OL play they will no longer be inept at every phase of the game. So, your initial comment was irrelevant to my point.
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Post by IrishMike on Sept 4, 2019 8:59:39 GMT -5
4 games with Odell 1 game where we put up 41 on a team that played us the absolute worst way you can play us(8 in the box zero high safety)with a back like Barkley and was demoralized by the 2nd quarter.. You had a 2 game blip at the end of the season that fans seem to think os the reason why this team is going to be a good offense with a bunch of complimentary pieces at best that scare nobody in the passing game This is a good offense in the modern era and what will be required to have a winning record to compensate for young defense that's going to give up a lot of points and yards while taking lumps with growing pains 27 plus points a game 275 in the air 120 on the ground We dont have the firepower this year to do this. Sorry 7-9 Cee Dee Lamb or someone next year in the draft is the difference maker on offense while the defense is a year more experienced and we go 11-5 with Jones as starter So again I will ask this. Do you think teams will study that game and compare to the others and be able to keep us under 14 points? 10 points? 3 points?
How many points per game do you think we will score? We scored 23 points per game last year, do you think we will score less this year?
Read more: thegiantsboard.proboards.com/thread/4202/on-record-predict?page=4#ixzz5yZ35GYCm
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 4, 2019 9:09:56 GMT -5
4 games with Odell 1 game where we put up 41 on a team that played us the absolute worst way you can play us(8 in the box zero high safety)with a back like Barkley and was demoralized by the 2nd quarter.. You had a 2 game blip at the end of the season that fans seem to think os the reason why this team is going to be a good offense with a bunch of complimentary pieces at best that scare nobody in the passing game This is a good offense in the modern era and what will be required to have a winning record to compensate for young defense that's going to give up a lot of points and yards while taking lumps with growing pains 27 plus points a game 275 in the air 120 on the ground We dont have the firepower this year to do this. Sorry 7-9 Cee Dee Lamb or someone next year in the draft is the difference maker on offense while the defense is a year more experienced and we go 11-5 with Jones as starter So again I will ask this. Do you think teams will study that game and compare to the others and be able to keep us under 14 points? 10 points? 3 points?
How many points per game do you think we will score? We scored 23 points per game last year, do you think we will score less this year?
Read more: thegiantsboard.proboards.com/thread/4202/on-record-predict?page=4#ixzz5yZ35GYCmSee my post above for what will be required offensively to be evenn.500 this year We dont have enough firepower At best we will be a 21-23 point a game team that maybe like last year gets a score during garbage time(remember many of our scores came during garbage time or like vs Carolina when we overcame a huge deficit,something we won't be able to do)
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 4, 2019 9:13:13 GMT -5
No it is quite relevant to the point if you comprehend You said our O line will make our offense better even with pedestrian playmakers and I pointed out an example where indeed an outside playmaker added made an entire offense better. Your dickish snark being ignored this time I was talking about the Giants, not the Cowboys. The Giants biggest problem over the last several years, that effected every aspect of what they try offensively was the interior offensive line. Until that improves, it matters little what else they have at other positions. Hernandez has one more season of experience, Zietler is worlds better than any RG since Snee and Halapio is supposedly better than the C last season. Hopefully this fixes the interior line issues which would allow the other positions to start mattering again. Without an outside threat they will continue to have situational deficiencies, but at least with good interior OL play they will no longer be inept at every phase of the game. So, your initial comment was irrelevant to my point. And again it's not irrelevant because again I proved that even with a good o line if you don't have a weapon to scare defenses out of a shallow simple shell the offense will be impotent. I'm not discounting the interior of the line being important,but at the same time you need weapons as well. Hell Go back to 2008 when we arguably had the best o line on football what happened when our number 1 reciever shot himself...
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Post by IrishMike on Sept 4, 2019 9:17:55 GMT -5
See my post above for what will be required offensively to be evenn.500 this year We dont have enough firepower At best we will be a 21-23 point a game team that maybe like last year gets a score during garbage time(remember many of our scores came during garbage time or like vs Carolina when we overcame a huge deficit,something we won't be able to do) So you don't actually think people will watch the Tennessee game and be able to shut us out like that? Almost like maybe the weather had an effect on that game. Glad you agree with me.
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Post by jmike on Sept 4, 2019 9:20:12 GMT -5
See my post above for what will be required offensively to be evenn.500 this year We dont have enough firepower At best we will be a 21-23 point a game team that maybe like last year gets a score during garbage time(remember many of our scores came during garbage time or like vs Carolina when we overcame a huge deficit,something we won't be able to do) Unless the defense shows vast improvements, which is unlikely because most of he good players are so young, you are likely correct. Not having the outside threat will limit the firepower on offense, resulting in a poor record even with improvements across the board on offense. Defensively, I think AO is the biggest issue. Not the worst player, but I don't think he is very good and the Giants need somebody very good at that position. I think Connelly is promising for the future, but not ready yet. Davis I am not a fan of, but has skills, so hopefully he is adequate. But like the middle of the offense effecting everything else, the middle of the defense is the same. The combinations of ILB on this roster are not good enough and will be exploited routinely by the offense. Leading to the inability to stop drives consistently. The combination on the outside isn't great, but good enough with a strong DL and DBs, if they were solid in the middle two spots. They aren't and I think this area more than any other will limit what the defense can do.
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Post by bigblueones on Sept 4, 2019 9:22:12 GMT -5
I think the combo of Tate and Engram with the skills of Sterling Shepard make this team better than you think it will be. That is not a meek group there. Not world class, but they will have to be respected. I honestly think Engram is the key if he stays healthy. Those guys operate best in space inside the 15 yard box Teams will be hanging in this area because we don't have anyone to scare teams enough to back out of this unless Slayton by some miracle steps up Meaning this team doesnt have the required firepower to keep up when teams take advantage of our young defense 2020 when we get this guy is when we will be cooking with fire Having trouble following here. What guy are we getting?????? A WR? Sorry if I missed it.
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Post by jmike on Sept 4, 2019 9:26:18 GMT -5
I was talking about the Giants, not the Cowboys. The Giants biggest problem over the last several years, that effected every aspect of what they try offensively was the interior offensive line. Until that improves, it matters little what else they have at other positions. Hernandez has one more season of experience, Zietler is worlds better than any RG since Snee and Halapio is supposedly better than the C last season. Hopefully this fixes the interior line issues which would allow the other positions to start mattering again. Without an outside threat they will continue to have situational deficiencies, but at least with good interior OL play they will no longer be inept at every phase of the game. So, your initial comment was irrelevant to my point. And again it's not irrelevant because again I proved that even with a good o line if you don't have a weapon to scare defenses out of a shallow simple shell the offense will be impotent. I'm not discounting the interior of the line being important,but at the same time you need weapons as well. Hell Go back to 2008 when we arguably had the best o line on football what happened when our number 1 reciever shot himself... You haven't proven anything. You have made irrelevant tangential comments. The interior OL needs to be better for any weapon to matter. If the Giants improve it will be because of improved play there more than any other position on offense. We could have Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Jerry Rice, Barry Sanders, Jay Novecek and Dan Marino out there and if the interior OL continues to play as we've seen for the last half dozen years, the team and offense will still be bad.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 4, 2019 9:34:01 GMT -5
And again it's not irrelevant because again I proved that even with a good o line if you don't have a weapon to scare defenses out of a shallow simple shell the offense will be impotent. I'm not discounting the interior of the line being important,but at the same time you need weapons as well. Hell Go back to 2008 when we arguably had the best o line on football what happened when our number 1 reciever shot himself... You haven't proven anything. You have made irrelevant tangential comments. The interior OL needs to be better for any weapon to matter. If the Giants improve it will be because of improved play there more than any other position on offense. We could have Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Jerry Rice, Barry Sanders, Jay Novecek and Dan Marino out there and if the interior OL continues to play as we've seen for the last half dozen years, the team and offense will still be bad. How long were you waiting to crack Jay Novecek into a conversation? Haven’t heard that name in sometime, great tight end..
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 4, 2019 9:59:26 GMT -5
See my post above for what will be required offensively to be evenn.500 this year We dont have enough firepower At best we will be a 21-23 point a game team that maybe like last year gets a score during garbage time(remember many of our scores came during garbage time or like vs Carolina when we overcame a huge deficit,something we won't be able to do) So you don't actually think people will watch the Tennessee game and be able to shut us out like that? Almost like maybe the weather had an effect on that game. Glad you agree with me. I DO NOT agree with you in any way that this offense is fine or going to be good enough without a legit outside threat to take players out of the box and to be good enough to compensate for a young defense that will struggle You just put words in my mouth DO NOT ****ing put words in my mouth
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 4, 2019 9:59:55 GMT -5
Those guys operate best in space inside the 15 yard box Teams will be hanging in this area because we don't have anyone to scare teams enough to back out of this unless Slayton by some miracle steps up Meaning this team doesnt have the required firepower to keep up when teams take advantage of our young defense 2020 when we get this guy is when we will be cooking with fire Having trouble following here. What guy are we getting?????? A WR? Sorry if I missed it. Yeah..legit dynamic type guy
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Post by ocgiant on Sept 4, 2019 10:00:00 GMT -5
Still stuck on 8-8 difference is winning some closer games for a change
Secondary learns on the job but will be okay, DL is a concern
OL stays healthy and gives Eli time to throw WRs need to step up Tate helps when he gets back
Question will be is winning half the games this season enough not to start DJ at some point later in the season?
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