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Post by leonperry on Jan 7, 2020 20:30:21 GMT -5
wait... some guy was hired out of high school to be an NFL coach and subsequently won a SB? You got me, who was that Doug pederson? that can't be right... can it? ok i looked it up... actually right in that he came directly from HS to start his coaching career in the NFL... 7 yrs later becomes a HC.. this after a long career as a mostly backup NFL QB... I mean, a little more than just a "HS coach" but still technically accurate, i guess
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giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,899
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Post by giantsalmon on Jan 7, 2020 20:31:06 GMT -5
Wildcard weekend they point it out. The top 4 rushing teams are in the playoffs, the top 4 passing teams are not. I'm not saying you just have to run it like its 1950, but you have to be able to run it and pass it. Yet for some reason again not one team was able to end the game in victory formation running the clock out running the ball,the only team that ended the game in victory formation threw a bomb from their 2 yard line.. The 4 minute offense has become the spotted owl of pro football unless teams throw it or use a mobile qb ..... Even Tennessee playing prevent ancient gooberball with a big back had to punt it Twice... Although I have expressed a desire for NYG to add a big back to be a complement to SB, I do see your point. The Titans without what Henry is doing right now would not be able to compete. To be a Champion a team needs to be able to do both. NYG ran the legs off Joe Morris in 1986, but then Simms had that SB passing. In 90 Simms got hurt and they transformed to pounding the rock and owning the clock. The '07 and '11 teams utilized a balanced attack but when crucial passing was needed they pulled it off.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 7, 2020 20:35:34 GMT -5
I wouldnt hate it to be honest. Rex was a hell if a d coordinator Rex is a clown. All he will bring is a circus act that will distract from the HC. We do not need that S### show. And put the wrong kind of foot back into football
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Post by GameTime on Jan 7, 2020 20:37:20 GMT -5
Lol....my bad...I wasn't saying you were denying that. I was only adding to your post. yeah...figured. Cool
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 7, 2020 20:41:02 GMT -5
3 were college HCs and 1 was a highschool HC. wait... some guy was hired out of high school to be an NFL coach and subsequently won a SB? You got me, who was that Not hired right out of highschool, but his only HC experience was at the High School level. Pederson from Philly.
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Post by Jomo on Jan 7, 2020 20:46:10 GMT -5
I would assume, but could be wrong, he could take some guys with him from the Patriots. How about Steve Belichick as the DC? Only if Bill comes as president of football operations. THAT would be inspired and John Mara is NOT inspired.
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 7, 2020 21:03:31 GMT -5
I would assume, but could be wrong, he could take some guys with him from the Patriots. How about Steve Belichick as the DC? How about Pepper Johnson as DC?? Carl Banks mentioned that recently.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 7, 2020 21:03:47 GMT -5
Wildcard weekend they point it out. The top 4 rushing teams are in the playoffs, the top 4 passing teams are not. I'm not saying you just have to run it like its 1950, but you have to be able to run it and pass it. Yet for some reason again not one team was able to end the game in victory formation running the clock out running the ball,the only team that ended the game in victory formation threw a bomb from their 2 yard line.. The 4 minute offense has become the spotted owl of pro football unless teams throw it or use a mobile qb ..... Even Tennessee playing prevent ancient gooberball with a big back had to punt it Twice... Ahh yes excellent argument. How ever two of those 4 teams are yet to play. Let me know how the Ravens and 49ers do. The other two teams were on the road and still won. Not only did they win but they won by the most points on the weekend (7 and 8 vs 3 and 6).
On second thought that is a terrible argument. The Titans ended with their D on the field. This was after starting a drive with 3:10 and being able to run off 2:55 seconds. Their drive before that ran 8:01 off the clock.
The Seahawks...well they actually ended with Russell Wilson taking a knee 3 times to end a 6 play 2 minute drive in VICTORY FORMATION.
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 7, 2020 21:06:12 GMT -5
Modern analytical style offense?!?! What nonsense is that. Do you see the Titans last weekend......nothing analytical about that, they just physically kicked the Patriot’s butt all over the field. You can leave the silly analytics stuff and just get good football players who are tough.....it worked in 1950 and it will work in 2020. Can statistics be used as a tool.....sure.....but to use it as the end-all ends up with teams like the Browns.......perennial losers. I thought running the ball was a thing of the past. Didn't the Titans QB win that game for them? Surely his 8 completions for 72 yards is the reason they won. Amazing. A great run game and a good D wins in the postseason. Who knew?
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 7, 2020 21:06:29 GMT -5
Yet for some reason again not one team was able to end the game in victory formation running the clock out running the ball,the only team that ended the game in victory formation threw a bomb from their 2 yard line.. The 4 minute offense has become the spotted owl of pro football unless teams throw it or use a mobile qb ..... Even Tennessee playing prevent ancient gooberball with a big back had to punt it Twice... Although I have expressed a desire for NYG to add a big back to be a complement to SB, I do see your point. The Titans without what Henry is doing right now would not be able to compete. To be a Champion a team needs to be able to do both. NYG ran the legs off Joe Morris in 1986, but then Simms had that SB passing. In 90 Simms got hurt and they transformed to pounding the rock and owning the clock. The '07 and '11 teams utilized a balanced attack but when crucial passing was needed they pulled it off. There was nothing more demoralizing and depressing when we had basicly a running game and barely a game manager type qb at best when the team went down by 10 even against below average teams because you knew it was over,even if we had a good defense. Also embarrassing (probably as much so as the team is)because ESPN and the national media would mock us for being an important team... Even recently with a flawed team we had hope,2018 with Odell and Jones this past year doing it in his first start....
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 7, 2020 21:11:22 GMT -5
Harry Hiestand is free to hire for the OL coach position. He did a great job at Notre Dame training some of the NFLs best OL.
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Post by Jomo on Jan 7, 2020 21:15:23 GMT -5
Harry Hiestand is free to hire for the OL coach position. He did a great job at Notre Dame training some of the NFLs best OL. We need help everywhere and we need coaches who can teach.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 7, 2020 21:24:22 GMT -5
Yet for some reason again not one team was able to end the game in victory formation running the clock out running the ball,the only team that ended the game in victory formation threw a bomb from their 2 yard line.. The 4 minute offense has become the spotted owl of pro football unless teams throw it or use a mobile qb ..... Even Tennessee playing prevent ancient gooberball with a big back had to punt it Twice... Ahh yes excellent argument. How ever two of those 4 teams are yet to play. Let me know how the Ravens and 49ers do. The other two teams were on the road and still won. Not only did they win but they won by the most points on the weekend (7 and 8 vs 3 and 6).
On second thought that is a terrible argument. The Titans ended with their D on the field. This was after starting a drive with 3:10 and being able to run off 2:55 seconds. Their drive before that ran 8:01 off the clock.
The Seahawks...well they actually ended with Russell Wilson taking a knee 3 times to end a 6 play 2 minute drive in VICTORY FORMATION.
After hitting a 50 yard bomb from its goal line because they couldn't run it. And the Titans had to punt it twice,they still couldn't end the game with the offense on the field The 49ers play a modern basketball on grass style balanced attack where they have 3 legit weapons that teams have to account for that makes teams thin out the box.. And they play a fun basketball on grass style of running with a stable of small fast backs that all can take it to the house on every play.... Also Many of their runs are by WRs and even Kittles,and their fullback is basicly an H back that runs TE type patterns or motions out to the slot transforming their 21 into a 12 and thinning out the box more and creating a major mismatch downfield in the passing game. This is modern football This is what wins This is what I want All 5 playmakers that can stress the defense all over the field and make defenses vunerable to either the run or pass depending on what the defense shows The Ravens are a gimmick offense They first off have a dynamic playmaker WR that was established week 1(Marquis Brown)that teams have to account for or he will burn you So automatically no 8 man boxes They have 2 legit dynamic TEs that are legit the equivalent of Mowatt and Bavaro during the 86 run where our offense was unstoppable,as if you play the run they both will gash you 25 yards plus a pop.. So they now have legit 3 major big play receivers on the field at all times while having in effect 7 onlinemen on the field as both TEs are excellent blockers... Right there is enough to stress a defense Now add Pichard who also runs pass patterns like a TE and runs the ball ... so your fb now is a weapon and blocker... This alone makes this offense dangerous The gimmick factor is Jackson being a home run threat running it... So now defenses are so mind ****ed that the regular running backs are able to gouge defenses at 9 yards a clip because you have your linebackers thinking and not reacting So No There is no team that is running old fashioned goober ball with a big back in the I behind a fb and only throwing it 10 times a game except Tennessee,and that's because they have a game manager at qb. When the Ravens get up by 2 scores Tennessee will be done
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smitty
Special Teams
Posts: 904
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Post by smitty on Jan 7, 2020 21:26:41 GMT -5
Can you imagine an OL that could give us Earth, Wind and Fire 2.0?
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Post by SemperFi on Jan 7, 2020 21:32:26 GMT -5
to me this is backwards , hire him as a cordinator and someone with more experience as hc if you are so high on the guy . You're misappropriating his skill set. His value is being the boss. The man who manages all the parts into a well running machine. He communicates, puts out fires, strategizes, assembles his staff, and leaves the tactical stuff to his coaches. That is what we are looking for.
His strength is not a coordinator, but a leader. That's what he has been groomed for. Judge is obviously one smart dude and from what i read he will take no shit. (By the way, an important consideration is his hiring coordinators that are respectful of his position as head coach being younger than them. But then, that's all about leading, isn't it...)
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 7, 2020 21:35:25 GMT -5
to me this is backwards , hire him as a cordinator and someone with more experience as hc if you are so high on the guy . You're misappropriating his skill set. His value is being the boss. The man who manages all the parts into a well running machine. He communicates, puts out fires, strategizes, assembles his staff, and leaves the tactical stuff to his coaches. That is what we are looking for.
His strength is not a coordinator, but a leader. That's what he has been groomed for. Judge is obviously one smart dude and from what i read he will take no shit.
100% agreed
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 7, 2020 21:39:15 GMT -5
Can you imagine an OL that could give us Earth, Wind and Fire 2.0? Or an O line that legit allows Barkley to be a record breaking unicorn playmaker that averages nearly 2800 yards a year from scrimmage on 30 touches..while the other playmakers ravage defenses up and down the field..(what we saw a glimpse of week 16 in Washington) And a defense that keeps teams under 20 points a game (not going to be greedy here in year 1..)while this is happening
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Post by TCHOF on Jan 7, 2020 21:44:54 GMT -5
Garrett is not coming here as OC He's literally coming here to interview as OC. Yeah, no he’s not
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Post by TCHOF on Jan 7, 2020 21:46:08 GMT -5
This is old and incorrect
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Post by SemperFi on Jan 7, 2020 21:49:22 GMT -5
Harry Hiestand is free to hire for the OL coach position. He did a great job at Notre Dame training some of the NFLs best OL. We need help everywhere and we need coaches who can teach. Most coaches can teach. It's up to the Head Coach to motivate them because it's extra work.
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Post by EliDaGoat713 on Jan 7, 2020 21:52:23 GMT -5
He's literally coming here to interview as OC. Yeah, no he’s not Yeah he is
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 7, 2020 21:52:41 GMT -5
There is no team that is running old fashioned goober ball Ahh there is the root of your problem. You are making up what you think other people are saying. No one here suggested teams should do this.
No the Titans didn't end with their O on the field. They did hold the ball for 11:56 out of the final 12:45 of the game with only a 1 point lead.
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smitty
Special Teams
Posts: 904
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Post by smitty on Jan 7, 2020 21:58:09 GMT -5
Ahh yes excellent argument. How ever two of those 4 teams are yet to play. Let me know how the Ravens and 49ers do. The other two teams were on the road and still won. Not only did they win but they won by the most points on the weekend (7 and 8 vs 3 and 6).
On second thought that is a terrible argument. The Titans ended with their D on the field. This was after starting a drive with 3:10 and being able to run off 2:55 seconds. Their drive before that ran 8:01 off the clock.
The Seahawks...well they actually ended with Russell Wilson taking a knee 3 times to end a 6 play 2 minute drive in VICTORY FORMATION.
After hitting a 50 yard bomb from its goal line because they couldn't run it. And the Titans had to punt it twice,they still couldn't end the game with the offense on the field The 49ers play a modern basketball on grass style balanced attack where they have 3 legit weapons that teams have to account for that makes teams thin out the box.. And they play a fun basketball on grass style of running with a stable of small fast backs that all can take it to the house on every play.... Also Many of their runs are by WRs and even Kittles,and their fullback is basicly an H back that runs TE type patterns or motions out to the slot transforming their 21 into a 12 and thinning out the box more and creating a major mismatch downfield in the passing game. This is modern football This is what wins This is what I want All 5 playmakers that can stress the defense all over the field and make defenses vunerable to either the run or pass depending on what the defense shows The Ravens are a gimmick offense They first off have a dynamic playmaker WR that was established week 1(Marquis Brown)that teams have to account for or he will burn you So automatically no 8 man boxes They have 2 legit dynamic TEs that are legit the equivalent of Mowatt and Bavaro during the 86 run where our offense was unstoppable,as if you play the run they both will gash you 25 yards plus a pop.. So they now have legit 3 major big play receivers on the field at all times while having in effect 7 onlinemen on the field as both TEs are excellent blockers... Right there is enough to stress a defense Now add Pichard who also runs pass patterns like a TE and runs the ball ... so your fb now is a weapon and blocker... This alone makes this offense dangerous The gimmick factor is Jackson being a home run threat running it... So now defenses are so mind ****ed that the regular running backs are able to gouge defenses at 9 yards a clip because you have your linebackers thinking and not reacting So No There is no team that is running old fashioned goober ball with a big back in the I behind a fb and only throwing it 10 times a game except Tennessee,and that's because they have a game manager at qb. When the Ravens get up by 2 scores Tennessee will be done I tend to agree with your analysis. The Titans need Henry to be successful in order for them to win. The Pats tried to stop him, but we’re unable to do so. The Titans also have a good defense. If the Ravens cannot contain him it will be a dogfight I just don’t see that outcome however. The Ravens will give their three TE look and try to run the ball down their throat. If the Titans cannot stop it, they have already lost. If they can stop it, Brown deep and Andrews underneath will likely skewer them. If all that fails, Lamar will make them pay. No one has had an answer for him to date. For the NFC, I see either the Niners or Packers in the SB. The Ravens already beat the Niners and I believe wil do so again. I believe the Ravens would blow out the Packers. I honestly believe that the toughest game for the Ravens will be at home against the Chiefs in the AFC championship game. I have to give the edge to Baltimore’s D over a now healthy Mahomes. Turnovers aside, the winner of this game will win the SB. Only the Niners can stand in their way. That’s a solid football team. Harbaugh already has a game plan to beat the mediocre Chiefs D in the rematch. I don’t think that anyone is considering that the respective conference championships are not going to be between the four bye teams.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 7, 2020 21:58:14 GMT -5
He's literally coming here to interview as OC. Yeah, no he’s not Just wondering what you heard to back up your stance he is not coming here to interview for the OC job.
They interviewed Judge Monday and all reports say they negotiated (or at least started to) Monday night. Reports also say that Tuesday they requested to interview Garrett. Now there is absolutely a chance that the time lines of info are jacked up and the interview request was made before talking to Judge but didn't come out for a day; but it's equally possible they didn't request to speak to Garret until after the Judge interview/hiring decision.
The reason I believe they didn't ask for permission to speak with Garrett is because IMO if they were going to do that they could have done that days ago. Why wait until the day they interview Judge to ask for permission unless they weren't interested in him as the HC and only wanted him as OC after deciding to go with a very young HC.
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giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,899
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Post by giantsalmon on Jan 7, 2020 22:01:09 GMT -5
to me this is backwards , hire him as a cordinator and someone with more experience as hc if you are so high on the guy . You're misappropriating his skill set. His value is being the boss. The man who manages all the parts into a well running machine. He communicates, puts out fires, strategizes, assembles his staff, and leaves the tactical stuff to his coaches. That is what we are looking for.
His strength is not a coordinator, but a leader. That's what he has been groomed for. Judge is obviously one smart dude and from what i read he will take no shit. (By the way, an important consideration is his hiring coordinators that are respectful of his position as head coach being younger than them. But then, that's all about leading, isn't it...)
Excellent post. That's the "gem" I hope NYG uncovered.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 7, 2020 22:02:19 GMT -5
I tend to agree with your analysis. The Titans need Henry to be successful in order for them to win. The Pats tried to stop him, but we’re unable to do so. The Titans also have a good defense. If the Ravens cannot contain him it will be a dogfight I just don’t see that outcome however. The Ravens will give their three TE look and try to run the ball down their throat. If the Titans cannot stop it, they have already lost. If they can stop it, Brown deep and Andrews underneath will likely skewer them. If all that fails, Lamar will make them pay. No one has had an answer for him to date. For the NFC, I see either the Niners or Packers in the SB. The Ravens already beat the Niners and I believe wil do so again. I believe the Ravens would blow out the Packers. I honestly believe that the toughest game for the Ravens will be at home against the Chiefs in the AFC championship game. I have to give the edge to Baltimore’s D over a now healthy Mahomes. Turnovers aside, the winner of this game will win the SB. Only the Niners can stand in their way. That’s a solid football team. Harbaugh already has a game plan to beat the mediocre Chiefs D in the rematch. I don’t think that anyone is considering that the respective conference championships are not going to be between the four bye teams. Interesting you think the Ravens and Niners are the two top teams, also the two top rushing attacks in the league. You know what really helps young QBs? Running the ball. The Ravens are great because like you said they can run it, or pass it or Lamar it; plus great D. The 49ers are the same without the Lamar option. To be a great team in this league you need to be able to pass AND run it. There is a reason the 4 top high flying pass it all day teams are home watching the playoffs...because you can't win like that.
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Jan 7, 2020 22:02:48 GMT -5
wait... some guy was hired out of high school to be an NFL coach and subsequently won a SB? You got me, who was that Not hired right out of highschool, but his only HC experience was at the High School level. Pederson from Philly. yeah but you made it seem he was hired from hs and won a sb. lol he was a coordinator for several years.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 7, 2020 22:07:24 GMT -5
Not hired right out of highschool, but his only HC experience was at the High School level. Pederson from Philly. yeah but you made it seem he was hired from hs and won a sb. lol he was a coordinator for several years. I didn't make it seem like that, you (and others) interpreted it that way. I can totally understand the confusion but that was not my intent. It was a comment directed at people saying guys MUST have HC experience. Pederson had an entire career and I would not even count HS HC experience as HC experience but the minute I say 9 coaches didn't have HC experience someone would chime in and say "Pederson doesn't count, he was a HC in highschool der".
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smitty
Special Teams
Posts: 904
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Post by smitty on Jan 7, 2020 22:09:40 GMT -5
I tend to agree with your analysis. The Titans need Henry to be successful in order for them to win. The Pats tried to stop him, but we’re unable to do so. The Titans also have a good defense. If the Ravens cannot contain him it will be a dogfight I just don’t see that outcome however. The Ravens will give their three TE look and try to run the ball down their throat. If the Titans cannot stop it, they have already lost. If they can stop it, Brown deep and Andrews underneath will likely skewer them. If all that fails, Lamar will make them pay. No one has had an answer for him to date. For the NFC, I see either the Niners or Packers in the SB. The Ravens already beat the Niners and I believe wil do so again. I believe the Ravens would blow out the Packers. I honestly believe that the toughest game for the Ravens will be at home against the Chiefs in the AFC championship game. I have to give the edge to Baltimore’s D over a now healthy Mahomes. Turnovers aside, the winner of this game will win the SB. Only the Niners can stand in their way. That’s a solid football team. Harbaugh already has a game plan to beat the mediocre Chiefs D in the rematch. I don’t think that anyone is considering that the respective conference championships are not going to be between the four bye teams. Interesting you think the Ravens and Niners are the two top teams, also the two top rushing attacks in the league. You know what really helps young QBs? Running the ball. The Ravens are great because like you said they can run it, or pass it or Lamar it; plus great D. The 49ers are the same without the Lamar option. To be a great team in this league you need to be able to pass AND run it. There is a reason the 4 top high flying pass it all day teams are home watching the playoffs...because you can't win like that. Agreed, 100%. Lamar is the X-factor this year. Next season the league will try to prepare for him. Last year they collectively chuckled about him. This year they are all left slack-jawed. Harbaugh has everything he needs for another championship, barring a critical injury or critical turnovers. It’s their year.
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Jan 7, 2020 22:11:01 GMT -5
to me this is backwards , hire him as a cordinator and someone with more experience as hc if you are so high on the guy . You're misappropriating his skill set. His value is being the boss. The man who manages all the parts into a well running machine. He communicates, puts out fires, strategizes, assembles his staff, and leaves the tactical stuff to his coaches. That is what we are looking for.
His strength is not a coordinator, but a leader. That's what he has been groomed for. Judge is obviously one smart dude and from what i read he will take no shit. (By the way, an important consideration is his hiring coordinators that are respectful of his position as head coach being younger than them. But then, that's all about leading, isn't it...)
What makes fans so sure he is this leader and " boss"? I do see what you are saying, you are looking at it from a military background. To me a HC should know all facets of the game, one should also know Defense, this is where guys like mac shurmur fell short imo.
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