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Post by Blue Hulk on Jan 31, 2020 23:18:16 GMT -5
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Post by weekendwarrior on Feb 1, 2020 17:28:58 GMT -5
He will be a nice pick for someone in the right scheme. After the way d henry performed this year and how personnel has gotten smaller and faster to defend the pass heavy nfl, I bet guys like him will start going a bit earlier than we would expect to teams that want to run the ball more out of bigger sets to take advantage of that.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 1, 2020 17:58:44 GMT -5
Ehhhh....
I'd rather have what San Francisco has
A stable of backs that are explosive with speed and enough power to break through arm tackles,be a force in the passing game without the predictability factor being lost.
While not many have the unicorn skillsets or Barkley,compliment him with a Moestat or Brieda type and maybe utilize Penny more as he proved he could be a bettering ram and is already good in the passing game..
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Post by fifthavephil on Feb 1, 2020 21:29:10 GMT -5
Brings back memories of Andre Williams. I would like Patrick Taylor [ Memphis ]
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Post by Blue Hulk on Feb 1, 2020 22:12:56 GMT -5
If we want Barkley to have a long career..we need a bruiser
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Post by bluebuddha on Feb 2, 2020 10:20:37 GMT -5
Here is a Brandon clone out of TCU, Sewo Olonilua. 6'3" 240 and he is a rb. He is going to be undrafted but still worth kicking the tires on.
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Post by bluebuddha on Feb 2, 2020 11:03:45 GMT -5
If we want Barkley to have a long career..we need a bruiser My favorite rb is Antonio Gibson out of Memphis but he really does a lot of things SB does. He would be a good backup. I do think the AJ Dillion is the best compliment for SB though. He blocks effectively, get the short yards, and can churn out yards if we get up in a game. Good find Gee |
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Post by TEM on Feb 2, 2020 12:19:03 GMT -5
I would like have to have a big body back. We also need a back that can fill in a if Saquon gets hurt.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 2, 2020 12:42:43 GMT -5
If we want Barkley to have a long career..we need a bruiser My favorite rb is Antonio Gibson out of Memphis but he really does a lot of things SB does. He would be a good backup. I do think the AJ Dillion is the best compliment for SB though. He blocks effectively, get the short yards, and can churn out yards if we get up in a game. Good find Gee I'd rather have an all around dynamic guy Gibson is actually a reciever that can play RB..he has sub 4.3 speed and actually lined up with Barkley would create insane matchup issues and make the entire field a n issue to defend,making it very hard to defend even simple a gap runs out of RPO Everyone gets an insta boner when once every 5 years a back like Henry showed up because many are still stuck in 1990,but for every time an outlier like him shows up you get a bunch of failures when a team finds a big back to replicate this and it a ponderous plodding mess.. The 49ers don't have a big back and they are running all over teams because they have 3 of the same thing that are all around versatile athletic backs that can do everything and have speed for home runs....its all about team speed all over the field and threatening every inch of field,even in close. Helaire is my favorite back from LSU but he will go way too early to think about when for us he would be a luxury pick with Barkley. Again...we have Penny to be our smasher if we need to and he should be utilized more like Prichard or Jurychek is .... |
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Post by bluebuddha on Feb 2, 2020 14:34:24 GMT -5
My favorite rb is Antonio Gibson out of Memphis but he really does a lot of things SB does. He would be a good backup. I do think the AJ Dillion is the best compliment for SB though. He blocks effectively, get the short yards, and can churn out yards if we get up in a game. Good find Gee I'd rather have an all around dynamic guy Gibson is actually a reciever that can play RB..he has sub 4.3 speed and actually lined up with Barkley would create insane matchup issues and make the entire field a n issue to defend,making it very hard to defend even simple a gap runs out of RPO Everyone gets an insta boner when once every 5 years a back like Henry showed up because many are still stuck in 1990,but for every time an outlier like him shows up you get a bunch of failures when a team finds a big back to replicate this and it a ponderous plodding mess.. The 49ers don't have a big back and they are running all over teams because they have 3 of the same thing that are all around versatile athletic backs that can do everything and have speed for home runs....its all about team speed all over the field and threatening every inch of field,even in close. Helaire is my favorite back from LSU but he will go way too early to think about when for us he would be a luxury pick with Barkley. Again...we have Penny to be our smasher if we need to and he should be utilized more like Prichard or Jurychek is .... We don't run a zone blocking scheme like the niners so those one cut runners they have won't do much good here. Does Columbo run a ZB scheme? Our o-line also isn't very good if you haven't noticed. The guys on San Fran would barely produce a 1000 yards together behind this oline. I will politely disagree with your hot take on the running game trends and stay with my original comment above for a complimentary back to pair with SB. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 2, 2020 15:32:07 GMT -5
I'd rather have an all around dynamic guy Gibson is actually a reciever that can play RB..he has sub 4.3 speed and actually lined up with Barkley would create insane matchup issues and make the entire field a n issue to defend,making it very hard to defend even simple a gap runs out of RPO Everyone gets an insta boner when once every 5 years a back like Henry showed up because many are still stuck in 1990,but for every time an outlier like him shows up you get a bunch of failures when a team finds a big back to replicate this and it a ponderous plodding mess.. The 49ers don't have a big back and they are running all over teams because they have 3 of the same thing that are all around versatile athletic backs that can do everything and have speed for home runs....its all about team speed all over the field and threatening every inch of field,even in close. Helaire is my favorite back from LSU but he will go way too early to think about when for us he would be a luxury pick with Barkley. Again...we have Penny to be our smasher if we need to and he should be utilized more like Prichard or Jurychek is .... We don't run a zone blocking scheme like the niners so those one cut runners they have won't do much good here. Does Columbo run a ZB scheme? Our o-line also isn't very good if you haven't noticed. The guys on San Fran would barely produce a 1000 yards together behind this oline. I will politely disagree with your hot take on the running game trends and stay with my original comment above for a complimentary back to pair with SB. Aah no..only in the opinion of those that don't know what they are talking about and stuck in prehistoric times is that a hot take. 95% of big backs are ponderous types that need time to get to speed,and complete slugs in the passing game.They need a dominant power blocking O line to open holes. You put a big back in the game you are telegraphing only 2 plays....play action or run it up the middle,and if you have disciplined linebackers they can play either in a short yardage situation,not to mention you are taking a playmaker in the passing game out of the picture. Smaller backs that are more versatile that can run with power are much better in short yardage situations because they can get low,can hide behind the O line and not be seen until they picked up the 1st down,and hit the hole harder and faster. Bradshaw was a much better short yardage back than Jacobs was because of this.. And modern NFL..speed is what wins... The 49ers have the 2 fastest offense in the NFL and were one of the most run heavy teams in the league. You can't defend speed like that. So no...not a hot take,reality |
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Post by bluebuddha on Feb 2, 2020 16:09:38 GMT -5
We don't run a zone blocking scheme like the niners so those one cut runners they have won't do much good here. Does Columbo run a ZB scheme? Our o-line also isn't very good if you haven't noticed. The guys on San Fran would barely produce a 1000 yards together behind this oline. I will politely disagree with your hot take on the running game trends and stay with my original comment above for a complimentary back to pair with SB. Aah no..only in the opinion of those that don't know what they are talking about and stuck in prehistoric times is that a hot take. 95% of big backs are ponderous types that need time to get to speed,and complete slugs in the passing game.They need a dominant power blocking O line to open holes. You put a big back in the game you are telegraphing only 2 plays....play action or run it up the middle,and if you have disciplined linebackers they can play either in a short yardage situation,not to mention you are taking a playmaker in the passing game out of the picture. Smaller backs that are more versatile that can run with power are much better in short yardage situations because they can get low,can hide behind the O line and not be seen until they picked up the 1st down,and hit the hole harder and faster. Bradshaw was a much better short yardage back than Jacobs was because of this.. And modern NFL..speed is what wins... The 49ers have the 2 fastest offense in the NFL and were one of the most run heavy teams in the league. You can't defend speed like that. So no...not a hot take,reality I messing with you with the hot take . I know you like to use it a lot. Look there a many ways to win the game. In all honesty the NFL is circular what is old ids new what is new is old. The fact that the linebackers are getting smaller and faster to account for the pass happy league makes the likely hood that power backs and big OLines will take advantage of it. The run and shoot is the perfect counter for the modern NFL actually if you have the personell for it.
At the end of the day I really just want the Giants to win again. Whether it is with 3 backup rbs or a rb touched by god himself , it doesn't make a difference.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 2, 2020 18:19:46 GMT -5
Aah no..only in the opinion of those that don't know what they are talking about and stuck in prehistoric times is that a hot take. 95% of big backs are ponderous types that need time to get to speed,and complete slugs in the passing game.They need a dominant power blocking O line to open holes. You put a big back in the game you are telegraphing only 2 plays....play action or run it up the middle,and if you have disciplined linebackers they can play either in a short yardage situation,not to mention you are taking a playmaker in the passing game out of the picture. Smaller backs that are more versatile that can run with power are much better in short yardage situations because they can get low,can hide behind the O line and not be seen until they picked up the 1st down,and hit the hole harder and faster. Bradshaw was a much better short yardage back than Jacobs was because of this.. And modern NFL..speed is what wins... The 49ers have the 2 fastest offense in the NFL and were one of the most run heavy teams in the league. You can't defend speed like that. So no...not a hot take,reality I messing with you with the hot take . I know you like to use it a lot. Look there a many ways to win the game. In all honesty the NFL is circular what is old ids new what is new is old. The fact that the linebackers are getting smaller and faster to account for the pass happy league makes the likely hood that power backs and big OLines will take advantage of it. The run and shoot is the perfect counter for the modern NFL actually if you have the personell for it.
At the end of the day I really just want the Giants to win again. Whether it is with 3 backup rbs or a rb touched by god himself , it doesn't make a difference.
All good Interesting fact on the run and shoot...and June Jones brought it up when he was in the both for the bowl game in Hawaii and the warriors were in it. He explained how the run and shoot and Erheardt/Perkins systems were cousins that came to being in the Canadian league in the early 70s(both being option route based passing styles)and how today's modern air raid style is actually a simplified Erheardt/Perkins system(which is why it's been able to translate so well to the NFL unlike a lot of college fad gimmick styles) He theorized that a team will one day in the NFL start to morph their pseudo air raid/perkins stuff into a run and shoot style with so many patterns underneath these days if they can build an O line that can handle a bunch of vertical option routes And also with all these insane athletes coming out of college playing reciever these days he thinks this will happen sooner than later... The league is going to be dictated by the types of players coming out and produced in college. This is another reason why it's a passing league and usually quick strikes,fundamentally poor tackles not coached to do more than just get in the way for 2 seconds and athletes all over the field...YAC yards are now the new bombs away offense... Which is why we wont see a true long term drift back into power offense and defense,the d linemen coming out are insanely crazy athletes over 300 lbs that can run down running backs from behind and blast through holes..if you are a back you need to stop,start,cut in an instant.Even Henry was a victim of this vs KC ...with an offense built around him depending on time consuming brutal drives where the team is ahead of the chains,one no gain or loss and the drive is dead Also What's old is new again but in a modern way Use of a fullback.. Guys like Juraszyck and Prichard are redefining what and how you can use a guy like this ..basicly a TE in a FB pass route wise...he motions out from an I into a pseudo 12 in the slot...and he blows past the linebackers on a seam or wheel route |
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Post by bluebuddha on Feb 3, 2020 20:31:54 GMT -5
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Post by lasion2 on Feb 3, 2020 22:53:29 GMT -5
Ehhhh.... I'd rather have what San Francisco has A stable of backs that are explosive with speed and enough power to break through arm tackles,be a force in the passing game without the predictability factor being lost. While not many have the unicorn skillsets or Barkley,compliment him with a Moestat or Brieda type and maybe utilize Penny more as he proved he could be a bettering ram and is already good in the passing game.. As much as I agree with you here; You gotta look at who the OC and GM are. I’d love to implement a SF multi look style. We have a few plus parts of something like it already here. Mobile qb, Barkley, Engram’s 2nd level blocking and possible seam threat, Smith/Ellison traditional TE, Shep and Tate underneath, and Slayton downfield. Has anyone heard from Wayne Gallman? Is he out of detention yet? This could be competitive, exciting, and keep the tread off Barkley. But you have to think Gettleman and Garrett are gonna add beef to the line, and give Bark a huge percentage of the touches while employing a “change of pace” back that have been mentioned here. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 4, 2020 2:47:28 GMT -5
Ehhhh.... I'd rather have what San Francisco has A stable of backs that are explosive with speed and enough power to break through arm tackles,be a force in the passing game without the predictability factor being lost. While not many have the unicorn skillsets or Barkley,compliment him with a Moestat or Brieda type and maybe utilize Penny more as he proved he could be a bettering ram and is already good in the passing game.. As much as I agree with you here; You gotta look at who the OC and GM are. I’d love to implement a SF multi look style. We have a few plus parts of something like it already here. Mobile qb, Barkley, Engram’s 2nd level blocking and possible seam threat, Smith/Ellison traditional TE, Shep and Tate underneath, and Slayton downfield. Has anyone heard from Wayne Gallman? Is he out of detention yet? This could be competitive, exciting, and keep the tread off Barkley. But you have to think Gettleman and Garrett are gonna add beef to the line, and give Bark a huge percentage of the touches while employing a “change of pace” back that have been mentioned here. Well We.also need another dynamic guy...the chiefs proved me 100% correct that having even one guy opens up the underneath and running game..2 or more guys...this is how the Chiefs opened up the running lanes and litteraly in a way beat the 49ers at their own game(and Tennessee in the 2and half of that game) I actually want also a Deebo Samuels...there is clone from Memphis in Antonio Gibson Both teams didn't have a big back and both teams ran it well,with outside guys that opened up the running games... Modern NFL is all about speed,you can't defend it. I'm hoping Garrett actually adapts to what we have and takes the modern touches Moore brought to Dallas and other things he picked up Big is a very dated concept...whether it be a big back or a big slow possession reciever(I also see the thirst for a big possession type...modern NFL..fast,post catch speed and ball skills,able to get seperation quickly to beat pass rush) I will not be happy if we waste a spot on a ponderous waste that will be predictable to stop when on the field.. I do agree the line needs to be built up no matter what |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 8:33:26 GMT -5
As much as I agree with you here; You gotta look at who the OC and GM are. I’d love to implement a SF multi look style. We have a few plus parts of something like it already here. Mobile qb, Barkley, Engram’s 2nd level blocking and possible seam threat, Smith/Ellison traditional TE, Shep and Tate underneath, and Slayton downfield. Has anyone heard from Wayne Gallman? Is he out of detention yet? This could be competitive, exciting, and keep the tread off Barkley. B ut you have to think Gettleman and Garrett are gonna add beef to the line, and give Bark a huge percentage of the touches while employing a “change of pace” back that have been mentioned here. You really have confidence that Getty will get some good olineman after 2 years of failing?? I don't but I do hope he finally gets a good one or two and this coaching staff can develop them.. |
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Post by lasion2 on Feb 4, 2020 9:21:59 GMT -5
So it’s more of what I think will happen as opposed to what I want to happen.
We haven’t seen anything from Garrett in 10 years at Dallas, or Getty in his time here, that leads me to believe they are gonna dive headfirst into the modern look running game.
Despite having the bones of such a system already on the roster, and the resources/opportunity to acquire the bulk of the remaining pieces in the draft, I don’t think they’ll implement it. It would just seem so out of character for both of them, no matter how badly we fans want it, or how much sense it makes.
I can’t shake the notion that they want, and will try and get, traditional OTs for a hat on hat blocking scheme and a prototypical #1 WR to run a 12 formation based personnel group.
Again, what I think they’ll do based on precedent. Not what I want them to do as a fan.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 4, 2020 13:56:19 GMT -5
So it’s more of what I think will happen as opposed to what I want to happen. We haven’t seen anything from Garrett in 10 years at Dallas, or Getty in his time here, that leads me to believe they are gonna dive headfirst into the modern look running game. Despite having the bones of such a system already on the roster, and the resources/opportunity to acquire the bulk of the remaining pieces in the draft, I don’t think they’ll implement it. It would just seem so out of character for both of them, no matter how badly we fans want it, or how much sense it makes. I can’t shake the notion that they want, and will try and get, traditional OTs for a hat on hat blocking scheme and a prototypical #1 WR to run a 12 formation based personnel group. Again, what I think they’ll do based on precedent. Not what I want them to do as a fan. A.12 formation based offense would be epic.. This would probably mean Engram being traded and replaced in the draft by a Smith(who I think could be really good )type...and also keeping Ellison one more year despite a high contract. A new reciever would have to have deep dynamic speed,and again I'm OK with that However the elephant in the room is that Judge specifically was looking for his staff to be malleable to the players and not force players into a system. Gettleman has already actually started to adapt to modern era football He drafted one of the first new age linebackers in 2015(Shaq Thompson) McCaffrey was totally out of character for what his value were(big trumps everything else) Barkley is not traditional. Speed is what wins these days and he knows it... |
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Post by Blue Hulk on Mar 1, 2020 16:50:47 GMT -5
He is more athletic than Brandon Jacobs. If we can get him day 3, run to the podium.
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Post by lexington11 on Mar 1, 2020 17:33:05 GMT -5
Ehhhh.... I'd rather have what San Francisco has A stable of backs that are explosive with speed and enough power to break through arm tackles,be a force in the passing game without the predictability factor being lost. While not many have the unicorn skillsets or Barkley,compliment him with a Moestat or Brieda type and maybe utilize Penny more as he proved he could be a bettering ram and is already good in the passing game.. antonio Gibson. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 1, 2020 18:22:34 GMT -5
Ehhhh.... I'd rather have what San Francisco has A stable of backs that are explosive with speed and enough power to break through arm tackles,be a force in the passing game without the predictability factor being lost. While not many have the unicorn skillsets or Barkley,compliment him with a Moestat or Brieda type and maybe utilize Penny more as he proved he could be a bettering ram and is already good in the passing game.. antonio Gibson. Tested as a WR and ran a 4.39 ....but he would be perfect in that swiss army knife dynamic playmaker role for sure...and kickoffs and punt returns(he excelled at this ) One could argue he could be drafted as a return specialist and then be used wherever And Get Darius Andersen late day 3... Split time,kinda had a sluggish 40. But So Ahmed Bradshaw like (or Moestet/Brieda) Because Dillon is now going where he would be a luxury pick any time before the 5the round |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 1, 2020 19:11:47 GMT -5
I have 0 Idea where this comes from that Barkely has trouble between the tackles he runs hard and with power in there. now when he is hit in the backfield before he gets going no back is gonna be successful. Think they need a coach that is willing to use the back up give him some series Shurmur didn't do this.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 1, 2020 19:19:52 GMT -5
Tested as a WR and ran a 4.39 ....but he would be perfect in that swiss army knife dynamic playmaker role for sure...and kickoffs and punt returns(he excelled at this ) One could argue he could be drafted as a return specialist and then be used wherever And Get Darius Andersen late day 3... Split time,kinda had a sluggish 40. But So Ahmed Bradshaw like (or Moestet/Brieda) Because Dillon is now going where he would be a luxury pick any time before the 5the round His play speed and vision looks more then good enough. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 1, 2020 19:22:47 GMT -5
Tested as a WR and ran a 4.39 ....but he would be perfect in that swiss army knife dynamic playmaker role for sure...and kickoffs and punt returns(he excelled at this ) One could argue he could be drafted as a return specialist and then be used wherever And Get Darius Andersen late day 3... Split time,kinda had a sluggish 40. But So Ahmed Bradshaw like (or Moestet/Brieda) Because Dillon is now going where he would be a luxury pick any time before the 5the round His play speed and vision looks more then good enough. We are not looking for a home run threat to back up Barkley, This is the exact kind of back San Fran rotates in with no drop off. Vision is amazing,small powerful runner that breaks tackles...really good in the passing game,overall the perfect back up to Barkley |
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Post by Blue Hulk on Mar 1, 2020 21:55:26 GMT -5
You use AJ Dillon to Demoralize the defense and wear them down to keep Saquon fresh going against a defense that doesn't want contact any more.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 1, 2020 22:02:16 GMT -5
You use AJ Dillon to Demoralize the defense and wear them down to keep Saquon fresh going against a defense that doesn't want contact any more. Where were the big backs like this in the Super Bowl where both teams ran it at will? |
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Post by Blue Hulk on Mar 1, 2020 22:34:37 GMT -5
^^^^ Derrick Henry wasn't in the Superbowl, but he sure as heck proved my point in the playoffs.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 2, 2020 8:08:43 GMT -5
^^^^ Derrick Henry wasn't in the Superbowl, but he sure as heck proved my point in the playoffs. ^^ and like every team that tried to win a championship solely around a big back and playing a prehistoric offense since the Ravens in 2000 sat home and watched 2 teams that used modern small backs play in the Super Bowl.... Last I saw the 49ers destroyed the morale of 2 teams in the playoffs with small modern fast powerful backs that could also be productive in the passing game Again I go back yo questioning why such a large portion of this fan base is stuck in an ancient dogma of wanting to go back to the things were in ancient times when its proven over and over again ybe game is evolving in another direction...then half of those same fans bitch about the organization and GM stuck 20 years in the past when the team loses. |
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