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Post by TCHOF on Feb 24, 2020 13:46:35 GMT -5
Need a willing partner though ... not sure there will be one if Detroit trades out ....
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 24, 2020 13:46:35 GMT -5
For me, it all comes down to how closely rated the available OTs are to Okudah. If close, give me the OT who will be a staple of our line for 10 to 13 years over the corner who will lock down 1/2 the field for 8 to 10. I rank both positions pretty closely but have OT slightly higher and have noted how hard finding a good OT has been for us. That said, I wouldn't question the pick if it is Okudah. Brown? That would make sense to me only if he is rated much higher than Okudah/OT of choice and, as you put forth, we can't trade back. Okudah is way above any of these OT prospects. Especially when you can get an Ezra cleavland in the later rounds with not much drop off from the top guys. Okudah is a top 3 player in the draft. So says the same person who made this lolworthy post This is why pretty much people will agree with me that I'm glad you have no say in how this team is built And if I had time because I'm working I'll find some YouTube clips of Simmons coming up big in big games ...like hitting the wrong gap vs Ohio state the player game causing Dobbins to gash them ..
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Post by TEM on Feb 24, 2020 13:48:10 GMT -5
Need a willing partner though ... not sure there will be one if Detroit trades out .... That is the 800 LB Gorilla in the room.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 24, 2020 13:53:10 GMT -5
Need a willing partner though ... not sure there will be one if Detroit trades out .... That is the 800 LB Gorilla in the room. The spotted pink elephant is if Burrow decides to pull an Eli as there has been thick smoke about.
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Post by TEM on Feb 24, 2020 14:08:23 GMT -5
That is the 800 LB Gorilla in the room. The spotted pink elephant is if Burrow decides to pull an Eli as there has been thick smoke about. Do you blame him. Cincy has not been the epitome of team building .
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 24, 2020 14:09:49 GMT -5
The spotted pink elephant is if Burrow decides to pull an Eli as there has been thick smoke about. Do you blame him. Cincy has not been the epitome of team building . And one of the strange reasons? He grew up a die hard Browns fan. :/ Let that sink in for a minute
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Post by TEM on Feb 24, 2020 14:19:33 GMT -5
Do you blame him. Cincy has not been the epitome of team building . And one of the strange reasons? He grew up a die hard Browns fan. :/ Let that sink in for a minute I get your point. He has to think of Career potential first. If he has a better chance with different team. I can't blame him for want to do what is best for him
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Post by infinite420 on Feb 24, 2020 14:20:11 GMT -5
We dont pick CBs high every draft. We have a fringe 1st/2nd rounder, a 3rd round supplemental pick that can barely get out of bed without getting injured, and a 6th rounder that was bad last year. No/terrible depth there. Its a premium position that has a steep learning curve with a generally high bust rate. Literally the only reason I hear people say we dont need a CB, is bc weve spent so much draft capital there. Thats such weak reasoning . We just had a complete overhaul at the position, and were a Baker injury away from trotting out UDFAs there again this year without a contingency plan. Whats that going to be? Drafting another 5th/6th rounder that cant cut it? And whos to say Baker doesnt go back to 1st half of 2019 Baker? Id actually say its our biggest need. CB. LT. C. WR. LB. Lets take a look at the line you just wrote. I hear people say we dont need a CB, is bc weve spent so much draft capital there. Thats such weak reasoning.
So can I conclude by this logic If a player does not develop into a top corner in season one ( rookie year) Drafter another one? You are really going with that conclusion? OK. No, just needs to show promise. What are the odds you hit on a CB? 1 out of 3? By those measures, if Baker pans out, its likely Beal/Ballentine become like every other late round CB we miss on. I'd be happy to go through the list of those, because I can't remember the last time we nailed a late round secondary pick. Maybe Julian Love, he showed promise at safety. You can win without linebackers, we did it twice with Reese, cant win without guys than can man up on the Jeudys, Lambs, Higgins..... Hes a CB with size, cut in the mold of PP, Gilmore I know for a fact everyone here is gushing about this receiver class, so who the hell is supposed to be guarding these guys? Only way Okudah comes off my board is if we sign Byron Jones.
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Post by infinite420 on Feb 24, 2020 14:23:23 GMT -5
I agree so the move would be to trade back. Looks like a LT will be the pick to make me happy.. Start researching Chaisson from LSU I think after the combines he makes it into the top 10. I like him a lot more than most,but be reminds me of a lighter version of Danille Hunter. Watch this bitch fit this next statement causes But I would actually take him over Simmons,even at 4 . To me he is the only guy I would take on defense early(other than Young) FWIW He was the only guy to give Andrew Thomas trouble this year Chaisson has much more value to me then a guy like Simmons for our team and we can get him by trading back. Hunter is a good comp.
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Post by TEM on Feb 24, 2020 15:01:56 GMT -5
Lets take a look at the line you just wrote. I hear people say we dont need a CB, is bc weve spent so much draft capital there. Thats such weak reasoning.
So can I conclude by this logic If a player does not develop into a top corner in season one ( rookie year) Drafter another one? You are really going with that conclusion? OK. No, just needs to show promise. What are the odds you hit on a CB? 1 out of 3? By those measures, if Baker pans out, its likely Beal/Ballentine become like every other late round CB we miss on. I'd be happy to go through the list of those, because I can't remember the last time we nailed a late round secondary pick. Maybe Julian Love, he showed promise at safety. You can win without linebackers, we did it twice with Reese, cant win without guys than can man up on the Jeudys, Lambs, Higgins..... Hes a CB with size, cut in the mold of PP, Gilmore I know for a fact everyone here is gushing about this receiver class, so who the hell is supposed to be guarding these guys? Only way Okudah comes off my board is if we sign Byron Jones. You just made my point stronger on not taking a corner. By your standard we should take 3 to get 1 . We need 3 corners; 2 outsides and a slot. Than we should take a corner with at least half our picks with your 1:3 ratio If what you are saying is true. We should take a corner with at least half our picks with your pick 3 for 1 inclination. We have 11 picks ( projected) We should use 6 picks to get 2 Viable Corners? This is the way I see it and I can assure you I am not alone. If the GM does not show patience in allowing his picks to develop. The Gm is inept. ( 3 seasons at minimum ) The GM can not keep using his picks on a single team position and keep his Job. To get a "good" QB in the first round is 28% . A bit less than your 33% 7 round corner proficiency. Should we take a QB instead? The Qb is the most important position, is it not? As with our corners . DJ's development has not concluded. As I said I do not get your mind set on a corner is our #1 need. Even using stats. ( I'm a stats guy) You are not making a compelling argument.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 24, 2020 17:41:35 GMT -5
I feel like these two guys are being forgotten as possibilities for us in the event that we can't find a trade back partner, when they are likely to be the two highest rated players on the board at 4 (if they are even there).
I would be fine with Okudah at 4, but Brown would be a head-scratcher, especially if we re-sign Williams after using a first-rounder on Lawrence last year. But Brown seems a lot like a Gettleman pick ....
I could see either one agree Brown is not a need but he has value at 4 being some think he is 1B to chase young being 1A . I don't think they need to trade down if at 4 the tackles are rated as high as 4 Jermiah says he would forget trading and draft Beckton at 4 I'm a wills guy Would take any of the top 4. Tackle is one of those positions like gold they fall in with Pass Rushers and QBs.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 24, 2020 17:46:12 GMT -5
Need a willing partner though ... not sure there will be one if Detroit trades out .... That is the 800 LB Gorilla in the room. If they don't get a trade partner they draft who they believe is the best OT in this draft at 4 Gettlemen has been good drafting the trenches for years. Get this done these guys are predicted to be top 10 to 12 it's not like some huge reach.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 24, 2020 17:50:26 GMT -5
No, just needs to show promise. What are the odds you hit on a CB? 1 out of 3? By those measures, if Baker pans out, its likely Beal/Ballentine become like every other late round CB we miss on. I'd be happy to go through the list of those, because I can't remember the last time we nailed a late round secondary pick. Maybe Julian Love, he showed promise at safety. You can win without linebackers, we did it twice with Reese, cant win without guys than can man up on the Jeudys, Lambs, Higgins..... Hes a CB with size, cut in the mold of PP, Gilmore I know for a fact everyone here is gushing about this receiver class, so who the hell is supposed to be guarding these guys? Only way Okudah comes off my board is if we sign Byron Jones. You just made my point stronger on not taking a corner. By your standard we should take 3 to get 1 . We need 3 corners; 2 outsides and a slot. Than we should take a corner with at least half our picks with your 1:3 ratio If what you are saying is true. We should take a corner with at least half our picks with your pick 3 for 1 inclination. We have 11 picks ( projected) We should 6 picks to get 2 Viable Corners? This is the way I see it and I can assure you I am not alone. If the GM does not show patience in allowing his picks to develop. The Gm is inept. ( 3 seasons at minimum ) The GM can not keep using his picks on a single team position and keep his Job. To get a "good" QB in the first round is 28% . A bit less than your 33% 7 round corner proficiency. Should we take a QB instead? The Qb is the most important position, is it not? As with our corners . DJ's development has not concluded. As I said I do not get your mind set on a corner is our #1 need. Even using stats. ( I'm a stats guy) You are not making a compelling argument. Everyone wants magic it doesn't happen like that players need to develop Baker Ballentine Love and Biel need time only Baker is a # 1 the rest of these guys were drafted 3rd round or later they need time same with our young pass rushers.
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Post by weekendwarrior on Feb 25, 2020 3:33:16 GMT -5
You just made my point stronger on not taking a corner. By your standard we should take 3 to get 1 . We need 3 corners; 2 outsides and a slot. Than we should take a corner with at least half our picks with your 1:3 ratio If what you are saying is true. We should take a corner with at least half our picks with your pick 3 for 1 inclination. We have 11 picks ( projected) We should 6 picks to get 2 Viable Corners? This is the way I see it and I can assure you I am not alone. If the GM does not show patience in allowing his picks to develop. The Gm is inept. ( 3 seasons at minimum ) The GM can not keep using his picks on a single team position and keep his Job. To get a "good" QB in the first round is 28% . A bit less than your 33% 7 round corner proficiency. Should we take a QB instead? The Qb is the most important position, is it not? As with our corners . DJ's development has not concluded. As I said I do not get your mind set on a corner is our #1 need. Even using stats. ( I'm a stats guy) You are not making a compelling argument. Everyone wants magic it doesn't happen like that players need to develop Baker Ballentine Love and Biel need time only Baker is a # 1 the rest of these guys were drafted 3rd round or later they need time same with our young pass rushers. i agree that the youngsters have to develop but it comes down to how good you think okudah is. If he is jalen ramsey 2.0, think about what a defense with that on one side. If baker develops into a guy who can cover WR2 guys at a high level, that combo would give edge rushers more time to get to the qb and increases your odds of turnover success. There is a reason 2 1st rounders were traded this year for cornerbacks. The nfl knows how valuable it is to play straight up on the outside and sending more blitzers than a defense can block
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 5:26:40 GMT -5
I'm not hating a Javon Kinlaw pick with a trade down, nor would Gettleman...feel he is going to have as big an impact on anyone on the defensive side of the ball...senior bowl told me as such. Problem is, we're going to sign Williams...cause, well DG has to. twitter.com/thorku/status/1183059385242869760
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 25, 2020 9:52:11 GMT -5
Remember that was Leonard Williams in college he was considered the best player in that draft nothing is guaranteed until it is proven on an NFL field. After all of that I wouldn't complain one bit if they grabbed him in trade down.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 25, 2020 10:36:44 GMT -5
I'm not hating a Javon Kinlaw pick with a trade down, nor would Gettleman...feel he is going to have as big an impact on anyone on the defensive side of the ball...senior bowl told me as such. Problem is, we're going to sign Williams...cause, well DG has to. twitter.com/thorku/status/1183059385242869760Didn't he get hurt this year?
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Post by infinite420 on Feb 25, 2020 11:45:23 GMT -5
No, just needs to show promise. What are the odds you hit on a CB? 1 out of 3? By those measures, if Baker pans out, its likely Beal/Ballentine become like every other late round CB we miss on. I'd be happy to go through the list of those, because I can't remember the last time we nailed a late round secondary pick. Maybe Julian Love, he showed promise at safety. You can win without linebackers, we did it twice with Reese, cant win without guys than can man up on the Jeudys, Lambs, Higgins..... Hes a CB with size, cut in the mold of PP, Gilmore I know for a fact everyone here is gushing about this receiver class, so who the hell is supposed to be guarding these guys? Only way Okudah comes off my board is if we sign Byron Jones. You just made my point stronger on not taking a corner. By your standard we should take 3 to get 1 . We need 3 corners; 2 outsides and a slot. Than we should take a corner with at least half our picks with your 1:3 ratio If what you are saying is true. We should take a corner with at least half our picks with your pick 3 for 1 inclination. We have 11 picks ( projected) We should use 6 picks to get 2 Viable Corners? This is the way I see it and I can assure you I am not alone. If the GM does not show patience in allowing his picks to develop. The Gm is inept. ( 3 seasons at minimum ) The GM can not keep using his picks on a single team position and keep his Job. To get a "good" QB in the first round is 28% . A bit less than your 33% 7 round corner proficiency. Should we take a QB instead? The Qb is the most important position, is it not? As with our corners . DJ's development has not concluded. As I said I do not get your mind set on a corner is our #1 need. Even using stats. ( I'm a stats guy) You are not making a compelling argument. Nothing you said is compelling either, no I never said we should draft 6 corners to get two viable ones. It seems like we take one every year in the 4/5/6th round that doesn't pan out, so it may not be a bad idea to take one at pick #4 that you know is going to be a good one, rather than throwing darts every year in the draft in the later rounds. Not to mention it's possible you're getting a shutdown corner for 6 or 7 million dollars a year for 4 or 5 years. Id say thats better team buliding that throwing Byron Jones $15/m, unless you have the capspace to make that happen as well, which we do.
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Post by TEM on Feb 25, 2020 14:10:00 GMT -5
You just made my point stronger on not taking a corner. By your standard we should take 3 to get 1 . We need 3 corners; 2 outsides and a slot. Than we should take a corner with at least half our picks with your 1:3 ratio If what you are saying is true. We should take a corner with at least half our picks with your pick 3 for 1 inclination. We have 11 picks ( projected) We should use 6 picks to get 2 Viable Corners? This is the way I see it and I can assure you I am not alone. If the GM does not show patience in allowing his picks to develop. The Gm is inept. ( 3 seasons at minimum ) The GM can not keep using his picks on a single team position and keep his Job. To get a "good" QB in the first round is 28% . A bit less than your 33% 7 round corner proficiency. Should we take a QB instead? The Qb is the most important position, is it not? As with our corners . DJ's development has not concluded. As I said I do not get your mind set on a corner is our #1 need. Even using stats. ( I'm a stats guy) You are not making a compelling argument. Nothing you said is compelling either, no I never said we should draft 6 corners to get two viable ones. It seems like we take one every year in the 4/5/6th round that doesn't pan out, so it may not be a bad idea to take one at pick #4 that you know is going to be a good one, rather than throwing darts every year in the draft in the later rounds. Not to mention it's possible you're getting a shutdown corner for 6 or 7 million dollars a year for 4 or 5 years. Id say thats better team buliding that throwing Byron Jones $15/m, unless you have the capspace to make that happen as well, which we do. What you are saying is. What we have is negligible and drafting one will be a homerun ( shutdown corner) as if it is a sure thing. I am thankful you are not in the FO for your sake. I would not want you to have to endure the humiliation of being laughed out of the room. Because when it was your time to present your insight. Why a corner should be taken at 4 list. That will get the heads shaking. What will get the belly laughing started. Your presentation on why our corners are not up to standards. It would at that point be everyone ROTF. You won't even have time to say why no OT, Pass rusher or MLB. At the point your audience will be so incoherent from laughter . You would just have to save face and leave.
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