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Post by TCHOF on Feb 27, 2020 13:15:12 GMT -5
I'm one of Gettleman's biggest critics, but I feel like it's hard to criticize him for never trading back in the past without knowing: (1) how often other GM's trade back (I don't think Reese ever did); and (2) how often trade-backs actually end up benefiting the team that trades back.
Anyone recall seeing an article (or articles) on this?
I do remember the Patriots trading with GB and trading out of the Clay Matthews pick - they got GB's pick #41 (used to Draft Darius Butler - waived 2 years later), pick 73 (traded to Jax who took Derek Cox) and pick 83 (used to draft Brandon Tate). Doesn't always work out .... |
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Post by DandyDon on Feb 27, 2020 14:12:01 GMT -5
I'm one of Gettleman's biggest critics, but I feel like it's hard to criticize him for never trading back in the past without knowing: (1) how often other GM's trade back (I don't think Reese ever did); and (2) how often trade-backs actually end up benefiting the team that trades back.
Anyone recall seeing an article (or articles) on this?
I do remember the Patriots trading with GB and trading out of the Clay Matthews pick - they got GB's pick #41 (used to Draft Darius Butler - waived 2 years later), pick 73 (traded to Jax who took Derek Cox) and pick 83 (used to draft Brandon Tate). Doesn't always work out .... I think its a lot harder and riskier than people think. If it's just one spot you wont get much in return and if its many you might end up shooting yourself in the foot and missing our on the players you want. You cant who else might trade up behind that pick and make you look silly. Plus, as I've said before, you might be having to do all the calculations on this while you are literally on the clock. |
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 27, 2020 14:19:35 GMT -5
I'm one of Gettleman's biggest critics, but I feel like it's hard to criticize him for never trading back in the past without knowing: (1) how often other GM's trade back (I don't think Reese ever did); and (2) how often trade-backs actually end up benefiting the team that trades back.
Anyone recall seeing an article (or articles) on this?
I do remember the Patriots trading with GB and trading out of the Clay Matthews pick - they got GB's pick #41 (used to Draft Darius Butler - waived 2 years later), pick 73 (traded to Jax who took Derek Cox) and pick 83 (used to draft Brandon Tate). Doesn't always work out .... I think its a lot harder and riskier than people think. If it's just one spot you wont get much in return and if its many you might end up shooting yourself in the foot and missing our on the players you want. You cant who else might trade up behind that pick and make you look silly. Plus, as I've said before, you might be having to do all the calculations on this while you are literally on the clock. I mean, the Pats are the kings of trading back and when I look back at their drafts, there aren't many impressive ones .... |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 27, 2020 14:35:22 GMT -5
I think most GMs fall in the thought process of "All draft picks are gambles. Trading back to get more draft picks helps increase the odds of getting a good player or 2. The more picks you have the better chance of hitting on them. " Of course, you still need to do your homework and get some luck along the way.
Im not always a "trade back" guy but sometimes it just seems like it should be done. 2018 for me was that time. Last year I wanted Josh Allen when he fell to us, and if I known we wouldnt go Josh Allen, I would have traded back with someone who did and would pay for it. This year, if we dont get Young at 4, I would love to trade back a few spots, even if its only for some mid rounders. This team still needs a lot more players on it.
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Post by lexington11 on Feb 27, 2020 14:39:39 GMT -5
I think most GMs fall in the thought process of "All draft picks are gambles. Trading back to get more draft picks helps increase the odds of getting a good player or 2. The more picks you have the better chance of hitting on them. " Of course, you still need to do your homework and get some luck along the way. Im not always a "trade back" guy but sometimes it just seems like it should be done. 2018 for me was that time. Last year I wanted Josh Allen when he fell to us, and if I known we wouldnt go Josh Allen, I would have traded back with someone who did and would pay for it. This year, if we dont get Young at 4, I would love to trade back a few spots, even if its only for some mid rounders. This team still needs a lot more players on it. i prefer the quality over quantity approach. This team can’t afford to throw darts at the wall. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 27, 2020 15:05:50 GMT -5
I think most GMs fall in the thought process of "All draft picks are gambles. Trading back to get more draft picks helps increase the odds of getting a good player or 2. The more picks you have the better chance of hitting on them. " Of course, you still need to do your homework and get some luck along the way. Im not always a "trade back" guy but sometimes it just seems like it should be done. 2018 for me was that time. Last year I wanted Josh Allen when he fell to us, and if I known we wouldnt go Josh Allen, I would have traded back with someone who did and would pay for it. This year, if we dont get Young at 4, I would love to trade back a few spots, even if its only for some mid rounders. This team still needs a lot more players on it. i prefer the quality over quantity approach. This team can’t afford to throw darts at the wall. The draft is all about darts at the wall. None of us know for sure who will be good out of Thomas/Wills/Wirfs/Becton. The odds are only 2 will be worth the pick, if that. Just have to hope you are right. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 27, 2020 16:33:47 GMT -5
I think its a lot harder and riskier than people think. If it's just one spot you wont get much in return and if its many you might end up shooting yourself in the foot and missing our on the players you want. You cant who else might trade up behind that pick and make you look silly. Plus, as I've said before, you might be having to do all the calculations on this while you are literally on the clock. I mean, the Pats are the kings of trading back and when I look back at their drafts, there aren't many impressive ones .... The Patriots are the Vikings of the spray and pray method of drafting. Accumulate as many picks in the sweet spot to find very good football players, Think 7 or 8 picks a year Hit on 3 a year on a bad year then every 3 years hit on 6 or 7... |
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Post by Fletch842 on Feb 27, 2020 16:42:44 GMT -5
I mean, the Pats are the kings of trading back and when I look back at their drafts, there aren't many impressive ones .... The Patriots are the Vikings of the spray and pray method of drafting. Accumulate as many picks in the sweet spot to find very good football players, Think 7 or 8 picks a year Hit on 3 a year on a bad year then every 3 years hit on 6 or 7... And in spite of unimpressive drafts, they are superbowl contenders every year. If TB leaves, next season will be an interesting one for them, that's for sure!! |
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 27, 2020 16:54:17 GMT -5
The Patriots are the Vikings of the spray and pray method of drafting. Accumulate as many picks in the sweet spot to find very good football players, Think 7 or 8 picks a year Hit on 3 a year on a bad year then every 3 years hit on 6 or 7... And in spite of unimpressive drafts, they are superbowl contenders every year. If TB leaves, next season will be an interesting one for them, that's for sure!! These drafts look unimpressive until you see year in and year out a team of solid fundamentally sound overachievers |
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Post by lexington11 on Feb 27, 2020 17:14:05 GMT -5
And in spite of unimpressive drafts, they are superbowl contenders every year. If TB leaves, next season will be an interesting one for them, that's for sure!! These drafts look unimpressive until you see year in and year out a team of solid fundamentally sound overachievers playing in the correct system. |
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 27, 2020 17:59:21 GMT -5
The Patriots are the Vikings of the spray and pray method of drafting. Accumulate as many picks in the sweet spot to find very good football players, Think 7 or 8 picks a year Hit on 3 a year on a bad year then every 3 years hit on 6 or 7... And in spite of unimpressive drafts, they are superbowl contenders every year. If TB leaves, next season will be an interesting one for them, that's for sure!! Having the best QB and HC of all time covers up a lot of draft misses .... |
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Post by IrishMike on Feb 28, 2020 8:14:16 GMT -5
i prefer the quality over quantity approach. This team can’t afford to throw darts at the wall. The draft is all about darts at the wall. None of us know for sure who will be good out of Thomas/Wills/Wirfs/Becton. The odds are only 2 will be worth the pick, if that. Just have to hope you are right. I tend to take the stance that each of those four guys can be successful, which team they end up and the coaches they get will determine a lot. There are certainly times when a player just isn't good enough, but I think coaching has a huge impact. Alex Smith for instance could have been a much better QB if not for that horrible situation in San Fran. |
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Post by IrishMike on Feb 28, 2020 8:17:10 GMT -5
I mean, the Pats are the kings of trading back and when I look back at their drafts, there aren't many impressive ones .... That's the thing. When you have great success like the Pats people look at everything you do and think it's the secret. Trading back is not the secret to their success. HOF QB, HOF coach and a system that leads to top 10 defenses is. None of that is built around a big time player though (other than Brady). |
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Post by IrishMike on Feb 28, 2020 8:18:13 GMT -5
With all this "DG never trades back because he is a stubborn old fool" talk I have been thinking about taking some time and seeing how much other GMs trade back in round 1.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 28, 2020 8:27:24 GMT -5
The draft is all about darts at the wall. None of us know for sure who will be good out of Thomas/Wills/Wirfs/Becton. The odds are only 2 will be worth the pick, if that. Just have to hope you are right. I tend to take the stance that each of those four guys can be successful, which team they end up and the coaches they get will determine a lot. There are certainly times when a player just isn't good enough, but I think coaching has a huge impact. Alex Smith for instance could have been a much better QB if not for that horrible situation in San Fran. Absolutely. Huge part of these players success is development. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Feb 28, 2020 18:39:10 GMT -5
It's hard to pass up the talent you get in the top 8-12 picks or so. But at #4 in this years draft we if we could just trade back a few picks we still get the same talent if not the same player. I'm hoping for another 1st and 2nd rd picks. Maybe two 2nd rd picks ? And we still pick in the top 8. We'll see hope we can make it work.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 28, 2020 21:57:13 GMT -5
I'm one of Gettleman's biggest critics, but I feel like it's hard to criticize him for never trading back in the past without knowing: (1) how often other GM's trade back (I don't think Reese ever did); and (2) how often trade-backs actually end up benefiting the team that trades back.
Anyone recall seeing an article (or articles) on this?
I do remember the Patriots trading with GB and trading out of the Clay Matthews pick - they got GB's pick #41 (used to Draft Darius Butler - waived 2 years later), pick 73 (traded to Jax who took Derek Cox) and pick 83 (used to draft Brandon Tate). Doesn't always work out .... Think your right here TCOH if you have a few players in mind and only make a minimal move you can probably get one of your targets but then you have to have a partner. A while back we talked about it if you go to far you might miss the boat. In there situation now I wouldn't go any further then 6 collect an extra pick and get your blue chipper. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 28, 2020 22:27:12 GMT -5
The Patriots are the Vikings of the spray and pray method of drafting. Accumulate as many picks in the sweet spot to find very good football players, Think 7 or 8 picks a year Hit on 3 a year on a bad year then every 3 years hit on 6 or 7... And in spite of unimpressive drafts, they are superbowl contenders every year. If TB leaves, next season will be an interesting one for them, that's for sure!! Development letting players do what they do best within the system you get a team of good solid sound football players with a coach like BB leading them and QB like TB12, your gonna win a lot especially now in this environment the NFL has going on not enough practice in the basics of blocking and tackling. |
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