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Post by JoeyCush on Mar 4, 2020 17:41:18 GMT -5
I know hindsight is always 20/20 but given the state of the Giants right now, I cant believe the opportunity they missed out on in 2018. With the 69th pick, instead of BJ Hill, DG could have used it on Fred Warner who was selected the very next pick by San Fran. The fact DG drafted BJ Hill in 2018, then used the 17th overall on Dexter Lawrence in 2019 only to trade a 3rd and 4/5th (2021) for Leonard Williams in October the same year is crazy. This team still has Tomlinson under contract as well. Going into the 2020 draft, Simmons is a big potential pick at 4 but if Fred Warner was on this team, he wouldnt need to be. Starting off ball LBs would be Connelly and Warner and you could easily pick the OT at #4 or trade back if need be and get that extra pick back. Damn what could have been. And I know I know, if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle (maybe not in 2020) but it just blows seeing they could have had
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Post by shocknaweny on Mar 4, 2020 17:43:36 GMT -5
Ugh he missed on Warner badly ....every time I watch a 49er game I think of the BJ Hill ( who is not terrible ), over Fred Warner
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2020 18:13:12 GMT -5
Don't feel bad about that. In 1993 we draft HOF Michael Strahan. In 1995 we took Tyrone Wheatley instead of Derrick Brooks. In 1996 we took Cedric Jones and passed on Ray Lewis. Imagine having a D with Strahan, Brooks and Lewis?
Warner is good but isn't great.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 18:31:34 GMT -5
Don't feel bad about that. In 1993 we draft HOF Michael Strahan. In 1995 we took Tyrone Wheatley instead of Derrick Brooks. In 1996 we took Cedric Jones and passed on Ray Lewis. Imagine having a D with Strahan, Brooks and Lewis? Warner is good but isn't great. We can be a really dumbass team at times.
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Post by JoeyCush on Mar 4, 2020 18:36:22 GMT -5
Don't feel bad about that. In 1993 we draft HOF Michael Strahan. In 1995 we took Tyrone Wheatley instead of Derrick Brooks. In 1996 we took Cedric Jones and passed on Ray Lewis. Imagine having a D with Strahan, Brooks and Lewis? Warner is good but isn't great. I know Warner isnt up there (yet?) but he would have been a ginormous improvement over what they have had. Hes an above average player and a big time need for this team. Besides filling a huge hole, he would have made the decision for #4 a lot easier for them next month.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2020 18:40:36 GMT -5
Don't feel bad about that. In 1993 we draft HOF Michael Strahan. In 1995 we took Tyrone Wheatley instead of Derrick Brooks. In 1996 we took Cedric Jones and passed on Ray Lewis. Imagine having a D with Strahan, Brooks and Lewis? Warner is good but isn't great. I know Warner isnt up there (yet?) but he would have been a ginormous improvement over what they have had. Hes an above average player and a big time need for this team. Besides filling a huge hole, he would have made the decision for #4 a lot easier for them next month. No doubt. We can do that every draft though.
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Post by JoeyCush on Mar 4, 2020 18:48:47 GMT -5
I know Warner isnt up there (yet?) but he would have been a ginormous improvement over what they have had. Hes an above average player and a big time need for this team. Besides filling a huge hole, he would have made the decision for #4 a lot easier for them next month. No doubt. We can do that every draft though. Easier said than done. Just the value for a starting ILB at 69 is great paired with Connelly at 143. I know the numbers mean jack when its all said and done, just picking a tackle at 4 should be a no brainer. But this defense needs so much help. Gettleman, please save me from myself
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2020 19:26:55 GMT -5
No doubt. We can do that every draft though. Easier said than done. Just the value for a starting ILB at 69 is great paired with Connelly at 143. I know the numbers mean jack when its all said and done, just picking a tackle at 4 should be a no brainer. But this defense needs so much help. Gettleman, please save me from myself Just be glad you don't have to make this decision for the Giants haha. We need a coverage LB so bad, we need an OT so bad. Both sitting there, can only have 1. OT is more premium position, LB has the higher grade....oh what to do. All I know is that no matter what we do DG better not miss on the pick or we will be sitting here with another "hindsight" thread in a few years wondering what if.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 4, 2020 19:34:41 GMT -5
Easier said than done. Just the value for a starting ILB at 69 is great paired with Connelly at 143. I know the numbers mean jack when its all said and done, just picking a tackle at 4 should be a no brainer. But this defense needs so much help. Gettleman, please save me from myself Just be glad you don't have to make this decision for the Giants haha. We need a coverage LB so bad, we need an OT so bad. Both sitting there, can only have 1. OT is more premium position, LB has the higher grade....oh what to do. All I know is that no matter what we do DG better not miss on the pick or we will be sitting here with another "hindsight" thread in a few years wondering what if. Let's Williams walk With the number 4 pick....the NY Giants select(and in that dramatic pause every Giants fan braces for inevitable knowing this team is on a hamster wheel and blew it) Derrick Brown...
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2020 19:44:29 GMT -5
Just be glad you don't have to make this decision for the Giants haha. We need a coverage LB so bad, we need an OT so bad. Both sitting there, can only have 1. OT is more premium position, LB has the higher grade....oh what to do. All I know is that no matter what we do DG better not miss on the pick or we will be sitting here with another "hindsight" thread in a few years wondering what if. Let's Williams walk With the number 4 pick....the NY Giants select(and in that dramatic pause every Giants fan braces for inevitable knowing this team is on a hamster wheel and blew it) Derrick Brown... Would not be my least favorite pick, that guy is a beast. Absolutely not what this team needs but we had two All Pro DEs when we picked JPP. The Giants pick Grant Delpit....
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Post by JoeyCush on Mar 4, 2020 19:54:39 GMT -5
Easier said than done. Just the value for a starting ILB at 69 is great paired with Connelly at 143. I know the numbers mean jack when its all said and done, just picking a tackle at 4 should be a no brainer. But this defense needs so much help. Gettleman, please save me from myself Just be glad you don't have to make this decision for the Giants haha. We need a coverage LB so bad, we need an OT so bad. Both sitting there, can only have 1. OT is more premium position, LB has the higher grade....oh what to do. All I know is that no matter what we do DG better not miss on the pick or we will be sitting here with another "hindsight" thread in a few years wondering what if. Oh believe me Im more than happy Im not DG right now. Whomever he picks at #4, theres still glaring holes on this team. I value the OT a lot more than LB but like you mentioned, Simmons has the higher grade and is incredibly versatile. The only way he can screw this up is going Delpit like you said or Jeudy at 4 pretty much.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 4, 2020 19:56:29 GMT -5
Don't feel bad about that. In 1993 we draft HOF Michael Strahan. In 1995 we took Tyrone Wheatley instead of Derrick Brooks. In 1996 we took Cedric Jones and passed on Ray Lewis. Imagine having a D with Strahan, Brooks and Lewis? Warner is good but isn't great. In the end they needed to build both lines with the Williams deal if they get it done ever the DL is a strength with depth. I will never fault guy for building from the inside out. the niners already had there DL pretty much set. Warner needed to be protected the niners already had years invested in the DL. Don't think you see the same production if he came here it would have been one less DL we would have had .
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Post by jaymas on Mar 4, 2020 19:57:12 GMT -5
Just be glad you don't have to make this decision for the Giants haha. We need a coverage LB so bad, we need an OT so bad. Both sitting there, can only have 1. OT is more premium position, LB has the higher grade....oh what to do. All I know is that no matter what we do DG better not miss on the pick or we will be sitting here with another "hindsight" thread in a few years wondering what if. Let's Williams walk With the number 4 pick....the NY Giants select(and in that dramatic pause every Giants fan braces for inevitable knowing this team is on a hamster wheel and blew it) Derrick Brown... That would be tough to swallow.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 4, 2020 20:00:02 GMT -5
Easier said than done. Just the value for a starting ILB at 69 is great paired with Connelly at 143. I know the numbers mean jack when its all said and done, just picking a tackle at 4 should be a no brainer. But this defense needs so much help. Gettleman, please save me from myself Just be glad you don't have to make this decision for the Giants haha. We need a coverage LB so bad, we need an OT so bad. Both sitting there, can only have 1. OT is more premium position, LB has the higher grade....oh what to do. All I know is that no matter what we do DG better not miss on the pick or we will be sitting here with another "hindsight" thread in a few years wondering what if. As I said before if they drafted Warner before the DL was complete he would be dealing with OLs getting to him he is protected to run and make plays and our next ILB will be now to.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 4, 2020 20:17:44 GMT -5
Just be glad you don't have to make this decision for the Giants haha. We need a coverage LB so bad, we need an OT so bad. Both sitting there, can only have 1. OT is more premium position, LB has the higher grade....oh what to do. All I know is that no matter what we do DG better not miss on the pick or we will be sitting here with another "hindsight" thread in a few years wondering what if. Let's Williams walk With the number 4 pick....the NY Giants select(and in that dramatic pause every Giants fan braces for inevitable knowing this team is on a hamster wheel and blew it) Derrick Brown... Lets hope not he is probably top 3 in this draft butttttttt I want my 10 year tackle and the OL done and work to commence on the LBs also. That is the word I have been reading OL and LB are priority supposedly in what order who knows.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2020 20:30:43 GMT -5
Don't feel bad about that. In 1993 we draft HOF Michael Strahan. In 1995 we took Tyrone Wheatley instead of Derrick Brooks. In 1996 we took Cedric Jones and passed on Ray Lewis. Imagine having a D with Strahan, Brooks and Lewis? Warner is good but isn't great. I remember a draft where we almost got Joe Montana for a QB! Still worked out good with Simms. Imagine taking Steve Fuller or Jack Thompson instead of Joe Montana lol.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2020 20:31:46 GMT -5
Let's Williams walk With the number 4 pick....the NY Giants select(and in that dramatic pause every Giants fan braces for inevitable knowing this team is on a hamster wheel and blew it) Derrick Brown... Lets hope not he is probably top 3 in this draft butttttttt I want my 10 year tackle and the OL done and work to commence on the LBs also. That is the word I have been reading OL and LB are priority supposedly in what order who knows. Sad thing is even if we go OT in round 1 we still need a C, then to replace Solder in another 1-3 years.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 4, 2020 21:06:47 GMT -5
I just wish we had our 3rd round pick this year, #66, to complain about...
There will be some really good players still available at that spot.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 4, 2020 21:07:43 GMT -5
Oh and to play along, I cant believe we passed on Tom Brady 6 times...
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giantsalmon
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Post by giantsalmon on Mar 4, 2020 21:41:47 GMT -5
Oh and to play along, I cant believe we passed on Tom Brady 6 times... As the story goes there was a Giants scout who pounded his fist on the table for Brady. I think it was in the Accorsi book "the GM".
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Mar 5, 2020 0:43:49 GMT -5
To this day the Leonard Williams trade is the one DG move that completely baffles me.
Even his other moves that didn't work out, there was at least some justification to it. But this one, really hard to understand especially considering what's come out related to early contract talks.
Makes no sense to me why they couldn't have just waited to sign the guy this offseason if they wanted him so badly. Not like the Jets were going to franchise him.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 5:36:40 GMT -5
Don't feel bad about that. In 1993 we draft HOF Michael Strahan. In 1995 we took Tyrone Wheatley instead of Derrick Brooks. In 1996 we took Cedric Jones and passed on Ray Lewis. Imagine having a D with Strahan, Brooks and Lewis? Warner is good but isn't great. We can be a really dumbass team at times. Sadly George Young at the end was quite bad. That 1996 draft especially (and Boisture and a few of his scoutS still try to throw Reeves under the bus about that one when it was Young and Boisture
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 5, 2020 8:56:20 GMT -5
I just wish we had our 3rd round pick this year, #66, to complain about... There will be some really good players still available at that spot. We don't and we don't know what might happen we have 9 or ten picks and maybe more if we trade down.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 5, 2020 8:59:08 GMT -5
We can be a really dumbass team at times. Sadly George Young at the end was quite bad. That 1996 draft especially (and Boisture and a few of his scoutS still try to throw Reeves under the bus about that one when it was Young and Boisture Watch out brother you will get attacked for this truth, I was. But laughed it off he didn't change with times and when free agency came along he completely lost it thats how EA ended up in the picture the Giants were a mess before it and a huge mess after.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 5, 2020 9:01:47 GMT -5
Lets hope not he is probably top 3 in this draft butttttttt I want my 10 year tackle and the OL done and work to commence on the LBs also. That is the word I have been reading OL and LB are priority supposedly in what order who knows. Sad thing is even if we go OT in round 1 we still need a C, then to replace Solder in another 1-3 years. They have free agency McGovern is a fine center guard on the market and just maybe Gates is the answer at right tackle.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 5, 2020 9:11:10 GMT -5
To this day the Leonard Williams trade is the one DG move that completely baffles me. Even his other moves that didn't work out, there was at least some justification to it. But this one, really hard to understand especially considering what's come out related to early contract talks. Makes no sense to me why they couldn't have just waited to sign the guy this offseason if they wanted him so badly. Not like the Jets were going to franchise him. He took a Gamble that Betcher could get more from guy with all the tools, so far it didn't work out. He did improve the defense and by the looks of tackle market the going rate for him is 12 to 15 mill that leads us to the other part he thought he could get him signed early for less then market that didn't happen either all GMs make take shots. I they keep him it fills a hole with a top tier talent isn't top 5 I would say lower top 10. If not it's another hole to fill.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 9:24:30 GMT -5
To this day the Leonard Williams trade is the one DG move that completely baffles me. Even his other moves that didn't work out, there was at least some justification to it. But this one, really hard to understand especially considering what's come out related to early contract talks. Makes no sense to me why they couldn't have just waited to sign the guy this offseason if they wanted him so badly. Not like the Jets were going to franchise him. He took a Gamble that Betcher could get more from guy with all the tools, so far it didn't work out. He did improve the defense and by the looks of tackle market the going rate for him is 12 to 15 mill that leads us to the other part he thought he could get him signed early for less then market that didn't happen either all GMs make take shots. I they keep him it fills a hole with a top tier talent isn't top 5 I would say lower top 10. If not it's another hole to fill. My thought as well and probably hoping we could get a deal done ...
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 5, 2020 9:35:00 GMT -5
He took a Gamble that Betcher could get more from guy with all the tools, so far it didn't work out. He did improve the defense and by the looks of tackle market the going rate for him is 12 to 15 mill that leads us to the other part he thought he could get him signed early for less then market that didn't happen either all GMs make take shots. I they keep him it fills a hole with a top tier talent isn't top 5 I would say lower top 10. If not it's another hole to fill. My thought as well and probably hoping we could get a deal done ... Exactly and I'm not gonna apiece the whiners by joining in. I'd rather they take a chance from time to time with a good player then take risks with unproven draft picks. I want Williams back I'm not gonna dog him because DG traded for him he is a fine player and can do a lot for a team hopefully it's us.
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Post by nygiantfanalways on Mar 5, 2020 9:58:12 GMT -5
Don't feel bad about that. In 1993 we draft HOF Michael Strahan. In 1995 we took Tyrone Wheatley instead of Derrick Brooks. In 1996 we took Cedric Jones and passed on Ray Lewis. Imagine having a D with Strahan, Brooks and Lewis? Warner is good but isn't great. WOW!!! That's just crazy!!!!
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Mar 5, 2020 13:20:03 GMT -5
My thought as well and probably hoping we could get a deal done ... Exactly and I'm not gonna apiece the whiners by joining in. I'd rather they take a chance from time to time with a good player then take risks with unproven draft picks. I want Williams back I'm not gonna dog him because DG traded for him he is a fine player and can do a lot for a team hopefully it's us. My problem is that he could have signed Williams AND still had those unproven picks. He essentially paid two picks for a rental player. Maybe that's worth it to turn a top 10 defense into a top 5 defense on a playoff team. Not worth it to turn a 30th ranked defense into a 28th ranked defense on a team picking in the top 5 of the draft. Was it really worth the two picks to maybe save some money on a contract?
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