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Post by TEM on Mar 7, 2020 12:34:39 GMT -5
There would be no penalties. Each team is required to spend 88.8 percent of the allotted cap $ 200,000,000. at 88.8% of the cap is $177,600,000 That 88.8% number was just for the first year of the deal, with 90% being the number for each additional year. At least that is how I understood it. Also it does not really matter because that number is an average of each 4 year period. I don't know what our numbers were for the last 4 years but I'm sure we are fine.
Still does not change anything since we won't be entering the season with $20m in unused money. Can you imagine how much people would roast DG if he had money sitting there not getting used on players, especially enough money to sign a top tier free agent? Oh man.
I agree we can not afford not to spend the money. We may very well do as you say sign some big FAs. The Cap space does not add up for the 4 FAs you want to sign . Even though I agree with what you say what each of them will cost. Our cap space is not there for all 4 of them. Me I want to sign Williams and Golden and use the rest for depth and get off the revolving practice squad player conveyer when one of the starters gets injured.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 7, 2020 12:35:57 GMT -5
You put a lot of thought into that. The main negatives for me are Conklin's pass pro and I don’t like Simmons at all at 4. Clowney ........? I wouldn’t hate it. I want another legit weapon for DJ - Jeudy - Lamb - Reagor. There are some others but those are my top 3. Nothing In your post should piss off anyone but there are some very sensitive know it all’s on this board. Jeudy and Lamb will probably go 1st round. We have so many holes that I feel we should address before WR. If we go go WR wait to round 4 or 5 No waiting for any round to target any position or targeting a particular position at a particular round ever. You cant assume you will get the same caliber of player round 4 as you can if Mims is there at 2 and he is BPA... reciever is just as big a need as LB and OT... We get one of the fab 4 early and Mims or a similarly graded player is there at 37 you take the WR....or vice versa. Not doing this BPA guarantees reaching for lesser players every round
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Post by bringsimmsback on Mar 7, 2020 12:36:29 GMT -5
Good Morning everyone. According to Sportrac we have about $73 million in cap space right now, with the ability to rather easily free up another $8m (Tate, Ellison, Bethea). This really frees us up to get a little crazy and fill some holes in free agency. I was messing around with the numbers to see just how much that money can get us in free agency.
If I were in charge and I was the greatest negotiator with the ability to sign anyone I wanted here is what I would do. First re-sign Mr. Consistent, Markus Golden to $13m a year I sign Game changer, Jadeveon Clowney to $20m a year (more than I would want but in this market it's realistic). I sign coverage LB Joe Schobert to $12m a year (might be able to get him for less, tough to judge this market) I sign road grader Jack Conklin to $16m a year This leaves us with $9m in the cap. So I release Bethea, moving us to $12m. My man Rhett Ellison retires, moving us to $17m in cap space. Now onto the draft. This frees us up to take anyone we want. If we decide to go Fab 4 OT in round 1 to replace Solder we can do it and release Solder if our rookie is ready (at pick 4 he should be ready to step in day 1, I think they are). Solder's release wouldn't add a great number this year, but gets us to $23m.
If we don't go Fab 4 and go Simmons (or Young falls to us) then we would keep Solder for 1 more year. Hopefully we get lucky and Jackson or Jones fall to us in round 2 and we can groom them for a year to replace Solder next year (or they beat him out this year).
Going into the draft with Clowney, Golden, Schobert and Connelly as your starting LBs is great. If we draft Simmons/Young then we drop Golden and Clowney down to DE.
We would have to game plan around Conklin a bit as he did receive chips from TEs/RBs a lot in pass pro last year, but having Zeitler next to him instead of Nate Davis will help him tremendously. What he adds to the run game will make up for his pass pro (which is still an improvement over Remmers).
One gaping hole still exists at C but this draft is pretty deep at the position and I think we will go C in round 2 or 3. Also think we can add a WR depending on what else we do in round 1. That is my plan. I'm sure I put enough in there to piss everyone off in some way. Our off season plan has to revolve around fixing the OL and the LB corps and finding a way to get some pass rush. I would like to keep Williams but don't think we can if we re-sign Golden and sign Clowney. If we go with a cheaper option than Clowney we can work Williams in there. This is just 1 potential scenario. I encourage you to add your plan, keeping in mind we don't know who will fall in the draft.
I'm not a fan of Clowney. I would also stay away from Conklin because he is a liability in any down the field passing we will likely be trying to do. The only FA I would even consider going above 15M for is Jones and I would prefer to stay away from him as well because I'd prefer to only give big contracts to homegrown guys. Given our coaching staff's familiarity with Jones, however, I'd be willing to think of him as home-grown and give him a big deal if they sign off on it. Leaving him out of the discussion for now, I would aim to resign Williams and 1 FA from each of the following groupings. I think it can be done for less than 60 mil, which would leave us about 20 mil. Doing so would give us our starting C for the next 4 or so years and ensure we have a respectable starter at each of our areas of need (I'm assuming Love can handle FS). Pass rush will still be a bit weak but short of Young falling to us, I don't think that is a mountain that can be climbed via the draft or FA - only hope really is for our young guns to develop. Like you, I want to go into the draft with flexibility so we can go BPA in each round. A further goal for the draft, get a tackle to take Solder's place next year or force the FA OT to the bench as depth. The groupings (1 from each unless getting good deal allows for 2 ILB or 2 CB): ILB Blake Martinez, LB, Packers Joe Schobert, LB, Browns Danny Trevathan, LB Nick Kwiatkoski, LB, Bears Passrush (the pure DE's here are less useful considering our coach's goal to be "mulitple" but there really aren't any good solutions, I think) Robert Quinn, DE, Cowboys Emmanuel Ogbah, DE Markus Golden, DE/OLB LB KYLE VAN NOY JPP, DE C Connor McGovern, C/G, Broncos Graham Glasgow, G/C Ted Karras, C OT Daryl Williams, OT, Kelvin Beachum, OT Demar Dotson, OT Halapoulivaati Vaitai, OT, Mike Remmers, OT Greg Robinson, OT CB Brian Poole, CB Prince Amukamara, CB Mackensie Alexander, CB Logan Ryan, CB
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Post by bringsimmsback on Mar 7, 2020 12:40:24 GMT -5
So my thought process with C was that I could go FA route, which I am a fan of too; but for this exercise I decided to fill the OT void with the idea that a C will definitely be there in round 2 for us, while an OT might not be. With the idea of being free to go D or O in round 1 as my goal I had to fill OT rather than C. Yeah, and it might be easier to get a day one starter at C than OT. Although I have no idea what Cs are available in the draft. And I'm still of the opinion that an improved C will make both OTs more effective. I totally agree -, especially in the run game where we were actually already pretty good to the outside. We averaged pretty well behind the tackles but shit the bed up the middle. A more consistent run game will indirectly help in pass blocking.
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 7, 2020 12:43:48 GMT -5
Yeah, and it might be easier to get a day one starter at C than OT. Although I have no idea what Cs are available in the draft. And I'm still of the opinion that an improved C will make both OTs more effective. I totally agree -, especially in the run game where we were actually already pretty good to the outside. We averaged pretty well behind the tackles but shit the bed up the middle. A more consistent run game will indirectly help in pass blocking. Yup. Our touched by god RB is still getting hit behind the LOS way too often. And on pass pro, the QB being able to step up helps the OTs
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 7, 2020 13:27:42 GMT -5
So my thought process with C was that I could go FA route, which I am a fan of too; but for this exercise I decided to fill the OT void with the idea that a C will definitely be there in round 2 for us, while an OT might not be. With the idea of being free to go D or O in round 1 as my goal I had to fill OT rather than C.
Yeah, and it might be easier to get a day one starter at C than OT. Although I have no idea what Cs are available in the draft. And I'm still of the opinion that an improved C will make both OTs more effective. Depending on what we do with that first pick. I'd like to think if we take our pick of the top OT's at 4, he will be in immediate starter.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 7, 2020 13:30:11 GMT -5
Yeah, and it might be easier to get a day one starter at C than OT. Although I have no idea what Cs are available in the draft. And I'm still of the opinion that an improved C will make both OTs more effective. Depending on what we do with that first pick. I'd like to think if we take our pick of the top OT's at 4, he will be in immediate starter. Or even a trade back the goal is to have an instant impact starter with this pick On the line a player like this *should* make the entire offense better as this guy would be a major instant upgrade at RT in all areas this year. Get McGovern at C... Hmmmmm.......
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Post by imgrate on Mar 7, 2020 14:06:12 GMT -5
If it were me I'd always spend money on the "cheap" positions and draft the expensive positions early in the draft. I know, people going to say that you end up reaching that way, but how often is there not a top CB OT WR or pass rusher available when you pick?
So, that said I'd sign Littleton, Williams, McGovern, and Austin Hooper.
Would still leave holes at OT and pass rush, but that's what happens when you have a shitty roster. Would be able to fill one OT spot with the 4th pick or chase young if we get lucky.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 7, 2020 14:20:17 GMT -5
If it were me I'd always spend money on the "cheap" positions and draft the expensive positions early in the draft. I know, people going to say that you end up reaching that way, but how often is there not a top CB OT WR or pass rusher available when you pick? So, that said I'd sign Littleton, Williams, McGovern, and Austin Hooper. Would still leave holes at OT and pass rush, but that's what happens when you have a shitty roster. Would be able to fill one OT spot with the 4th pick or chase young if we get lucky. My only problem with not signing any OT in free agency is that what happens if Young falls to us and we pass on OT, or what if the OT we want gets snagged by Detroit. We at the very least need to bring back a less expensive OT that can start if needed, like Remmers. Same problem exists if we don't sign a LB at all and Simmons gets picked before us. We then spend the draft chasing that position hoping to fill a hole in our roster.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 7, 2020 14:21:43 GMT -5
All good talk fella's. It's funny by reading the responses here you can see just how many different directions there are to go. Spend a ton of money on a few guys, spend the money on lots of middle tier guys, get this guy, stay away from that guy. In two weeks our off season is going to get very exciting.
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Post by imgrate on Mar 7, 2020 14:30:05 GMT -5
If it were me I'd always spend money on the "cheap" positions and draft the expensive positions early in the draft. I know, people going to say that you end up reaching that way, but how often is there not a top CB OT WR or pass rusher available when you pick? So, that said I'd sign Littleton, Williams, McGovern, and Austin Hooper. Would still leave holes at OT and pass rush, but that's what happens when you have a shitty roster. Would be able to fill one OT spot with the 4th pick or chase young if we get lucky. My only problem with not signing any OT in free agency is that what happens if Young falls to us and we pass on OT, or what if the OT we want gets snagged by Detroit. We at the very least need to bring back a less expensive OT that can start if needed, like Remmers. Same problem exists if we don't sign a LB at all and Simmons gets picked before us. We then spend the draft chasing that position hoping to fill a hole in our roster. Yea, they're not going to do my plan. Its just always been my thought that you keep drafting expensive positions early and sign cheap ones. You can't just do it one season, have to do it every season. Basically I know we're going to have holes next season, but to build a team for long term success that's how I think you have to do it.
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 7, 2020 15:02:56 GMT -5
Depending on what we do with that first pick. I'd like to think if we take our pick of the top OT's at 4, he will be in immediate starter. Or even a trade back the goal is to have an instant impact starter with this pick On the line a player like this *should* make the entire offense better as this guy would be a major instant upgrade at RT in all areas this year. Get McGovern at C... Hmmmmm....... Trading back could be very good for us, depending on the partner. I wouldn't want to drop too far back, scared we'd miss out on any of the 4 OT's. I think even trading down to 12 would provide some cheek clenching picks as it would drop to us. I've seen all 4 gone by 10 in some mocks, and don't think that is far fetched at all.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 7, 2020 15:33:25 GMT -5
Yea, they're not going to do my plan. Its just always been my thought that you keep drafting expensive positions early and sign cheap ones. You can't just do it one season, have to do it every season. Basically I know we're going to have holes next season, but to build a team for long term success that's how I think you have to do it. It makes sense what you are suggesting but if you do that then you put yourself at the mercy of fate. You would have to hope the positions you need are in free agency and the right positions are there for you in the draft. IMO you fill as many holes as you can in free agency and go into the draft looking to sign the best players possible regardless of position. Use "need" as a tie breaker but only when guys are closely graded. Rather take a player graded an 8 at a position we don't need than a player graded a 6 at a need.
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Post by Roswell on Mar 7, 2020 15:46:48 GMT -5
I don’t know how good Littleton is or this guy or that guy. Heck, the Giants have barely kept me interested in football past October 15 for three years running.
That said....
I do know that there is some young talent on the Giants that are worthy of extensions. So I hope they invest in some of their own.
And as has been mentioned on a different thread, if Clowney is so good, why is he being passed up by the two teams he has played on in the past year? 20 million and never had double digit sacks?
Hard pass.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2020 15:50:41 GMT -5
All good talk fella's. It's funny by reading the responses here you can see just how many different directions there are to go. Spend a ton of money on a few guys, spend the money on lots of middle tier guys, get this guy, stay away from that guy. In two weeks our off season is going to get very exciting. Nice thread Mike I have been doing the free agent crap since going ultimate on the draft thread. I agree with GL, it does not allow you to front load any contracts, which in turn allows for more free agents to be signed. I believe there is a happy medium regarding signing free agents and their contracts. First off, I am signing a pass rusher like Clowney. With him, I am front loading much of his contract due to the slight injury scare, and of course the big contract and coast syndrome a NY Giant team could attract. He is the big need, despite some what GL would call hot takes on him. Peaked 2 years ago, overrated since his big college hit...if you don't believe in the huge money, scared of the nicks and injuries, whatever, that is fine...but the tape does not lie. He takes more than one blocker...this is in direct contrast to why I would not sign Conklin. He weakens the offense by requiring another blocker on pass downs. Clowney will make other players better doing this to most every OT...needing a chip or double blocked I am now adhering to what the draft is deep at, and that is WR, OT and corner. I am then adhering again to what, as of now, free agency is providing. I see no tackles after Conklin that are age appropriate for rebuilding, unlike a Clowney who is only 27, and should have 4-5 more peak years (or injuries and no effect on games depending on your views on him). So, after signing the great/or insignificant Clowney to a front loaded contract, I go Cory Littleton, and in this case, I overpay as I believe he along with Clowney suddenly makes this defense a viable force again. Littleton is a sideline to sideline closing speed phenom, with ability to cover tight ends, running backs, and do the slot...while offering blitz excellence due to his on the field awareness and closing speed. Once these two are secured, I would go after a veteran corner, possibly one of the premiere safety free agents...being I do not believe we need to secure middle of the road free agents galore (depth), as I tend to believe in past history, and DG has failed in most of his talent observations regarding average free agents. So, Clowney (27), top end loaded contract, Littleton (26), overpay again and long term...maybe Anthony Harris (28)...although at this point, we might need to take a closer look at Leonard Williams (25) and Mr. Golden (29). Obviously, the Chiefs can not let Chris Jones go...but he's the second best DT in the game. Now here's a curve ball, there is a DT in the draft not named Brown, who could be had with a trade back....and some say could be as good as Chris Jones as he had a Donald like senior bowl www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-football/article239532523.htmlOf course, the draft is a guess in NFL translation, and obviously pick availability... so we continue to spend this have to spend cash, obviously making sure we tend to the contracts and making them friendly for later failures and team moves. Now, getting back to Chris Jones (25), the Chiefs will tag him for 16 million...would you consider making a move on IMHO, the best free agent not named QB? If it came down to Jones and Williams, as 3 tech pass rushing tackles, there is no comparison, aside from the cash they both want. I stay away from Patriot players, so McCourty (32) and Kyle Van Noy (28)...don't care about Patriot ties. I've seen enough Patriot players die outside of NE to ever try for one....and that includes Brady, whom I am willing to bet shall fizzle out quickly as mother nature comes knocking without a BB scheme to help him deflect the evil mom. I like Schobert, but I'd pay more and get the cover backer. Money should be our friend now, and while I believe you build through the draft, DG simply lacks the assets and time to get that done, realizing after round 1 and maybe 2, it becomes a big craps game, with some hits still possibly needing a few years vs instant plug and play. Connor McGovern (26) plays center for the Broncos, and is a weight room beast. He's not a pro bowl player, but can be had for a situation if we can't find a center in a fairly good draft class (see Cushenberry being the only center to block Javon Kinlaw on that senior bowl link and tweets)...Connor is a good run blocker, excels in zone with a lot of raw power. 10 million per year? I'd personally find a center in the draft. So, in recap as I need to take a crap... Jadeveon Clowney 50 million per year if need be...can TEM figure out how much per sack that would be?...we need some math and stats here.Okay, around 22 per Cory Littleton - 14 Anthony Harris - 14 McGovern - 10 Williams - 14 Golden - 10 Of course all shall not be signed, and contracts can be tweaked...some will be tagged or sign on with existing teams. But, IMHO...adding Clowney, Littleton and Harris, and resigning Williams (I let Golden walk...just to piss you off...hahaha) will create that defense on the up, and while this draft is weak in pass rush, we could secure a decent corner and even a linebacker in later rounds if we fail to sign a veteran cornerback. In case i have not told you my draft plans, they involve Andrew Thomas. Just remember, if Dave Gettleman goes, so does the coaching staff and then...the QB. Can you handle yet another QB search? I'm calling it right now...Tua will be a Redskin at 2...it's what new GM/Coaches do with a 2 pick and a scrub named Haskins
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 7, 2020 18:19:32 GMT -5
Nice thread Mike In case i have not told you my draft plans, they involve Andrew Thomas. Thanks.
I haven't heard of Thomas. Can he cover LBs?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 9:59:39 GMT -5
Jeudy and Lamb will probably go 1st round. We have so many holes that I feel we should address before WR. If we go go WR wait to round 4 or 5 No waiting for any round to target any position or targeting a particular position at a particular round ever. You cant assume you will get the same caliber of player round 4 as you can if Mims is there at 2 and he is BPA... reciever is just as big a need as LB and OT... We get one of the fab 4 early and Mims or a similarly graded player is there at 37 you take the WR....or vice versa. Not doing this BPA guarantees reaching for lesser players every round I like the idea of getting a receiver. I do. But not at 4
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 8, 2020 10:32:01 GMT -5
No waiting for any round to target any position or targeting a particular position at a particular round ever. You cant assume you will get the same caliber of player round 4 as you can if Mims is there at 2 and he is BPA... reciever is just as big a need as LB and OT... We get one of the fab 4 early and Mims or a similarly graded player is there at 37 you take the WR....or vice versa. Not doing this BPA guarantees reaching for lesser players every round I like the idea of getting a receiver. I do. But not at 4 Agreed But starting rounds 2 its game on if one is BPA
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 10:36:29 GMT -5
If it were me I'd always spend money on the "cheap" positions and draft the expensive positions early in the draft. I know, people going to say that you end up reaching that way, but how often is there not a top CB OT WR or pass rusher available when you pick? So, that said I'd sign Littleton, Williams, McGovern, and Austin Hooper. Would still leave holes at OT and pass rush, but that's what happens when you have a shitty roster. Would be able to fill one OT spot with the 4th pick or chase young if we get lucky. My only problem with not signing any OT in free agency is that what happens if Young falls to us and we pass on OT, or what if the OT we want gets snagged by Detroit. We at the very least need to bring back a less expensive OT that can start if needed, like Remmers. Same problem exists if we don't sign a LB at all and Simmons gets picked before us. We then spend the draft chasing that position hoping to fill a hole in our roster. I'd be shocked if Detroit takes a tackle on offense as they have Decker...but they do need a DT and CB, with 2 studs sitting there. I'm guessing they trade back or take Young...and if not, take a position of need that happens to be BPA as well.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 8, 2020 10:52:14 GMT -5
My only problem with not signing any OT in free agency is that what happens if Young falls to us and we pass on OT, or what if the OT we want gets snagged by Detroit. We at the very least need to bring back a less expensive OT that can start if needed, like Remmers. Same problem exists if we don't sign a LB at all and Simmons gets picked before us. We then spend the draft chasing that position hoping to fill a hole in our roster. I'd be shocked if Detroit takes a tackle on offense as they have Decker...but they do need a DT and CB, with 2 studs sitting there. I'm guessing they trade back or take Young...and if not, take a position of need that happens to be BPA as well. Brown,Simmons,Okudah They have major needs at all 3 levels Interestingly I think they had a better defense statistically than us yet they have more glaring needs than us.... Hmmm.... Patricia ,Betcher....
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 8, 2020 10:56:02 GMT -5
I'd be shocked if Detroit takes a tackle on offense as they have Decker...but they do need a DT and CB, with 2 studs sitting there. I'm guessing they trade back or take Young...and if not, take a position of need that happens to be BPA as well. I would be shocked too but that's not really my point. We absolutely need to sign a free agent OT whether we plan to go OT in the draft or not.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 19:04:48 GMT -5
I'd be shocked if Detroit takes a tackle on offense as they have Decker...but they do need a DT and CB, with 2 studs sitting there. I'm guessing they trade back or take Young...and if not, take a position of need that happens to be BPA as well. I would be shocked too but that's not really my point. We absolutely need to sign a free agent OT whether we plan to go OT in the draft or not. What free agent OT's you leaning towards Mike?
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 10, 2020 19:38:10 GMT -5
I would be shocked too but that's not really my point. We absolutely need to sign a free agent OT whether we plan to go OT in the draft or not. What free agent OT's you leaning towards Mike? Depends what your goal is and what you want to spend. You know I am on the Conklin train, although we might get priced out of that depending what our aim is. Castonzo would be nice but is a bit older and might be very expensive with the LT label and all. He is a very solid pass protector though. Brian Bulaga is 31 also and has had some health issues, although he played all 16 last year; he will be cheaper than Castonzo but could still be pricey. Jason Peters is about to retire but he only made $3.5m last year and I would pay him that to come here for a year. Matt Feiler or Remmers would be options if we just needed to get someone in here.
Like I said we need to bring in an OT even if we want one in the draft. Conklin and Castonzo will be pricey but are the best of the bunch and a big upgrade over Remmers. One of the cheaper options make for a nice fail safe / depth if we get one in the draft and decide to keep Solder.
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Post by EliDaGoat713 on Mar 11, 2020 15:03:48 GMT -5
You put a lot of thought into that. The main negatives for me are Conklin's pass pro and I don’t like Simmons at all at 4. Clowney ........? I wouldn’t hate it. I want another legit weapon for DJ - Jeudy - Lamb - Reagor. There are some others but those are my top 3. Nothing In your post should piss off anyone but there are some very sensitive know it all’s on this board. How the **** do you not like Simmons?!
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 11, 2020 18:26:21 GMT -5
You put a lot of thought into that. The main negatives for me are Conklin's pass pro and I don’t like Simmons at all at 4. Clowney ........? I wouldn’t hate it. I want another legit weapon for DJ - Jeudy - Lamb - Reagor. There are some others but those are my top 3. Nothing In your post should piss off anyone but there are some very sensitive know it all’s on this board. How the **** do you not like Simmons?! Because he is educated?
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 11, 2020 18:37:06 GMT -5
How the **** do you not like Simmons?! Because he is educated? Kind of messed up to hate Simmons because he went to college. Why would we want dumb players?
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Post by EliDaGoat713 on Mar 11, 2020 18:39:12 GMT -5
Kind of messed up to hate Simmons because he went to college. Why would we want dumb players? giantlegacy isn't educated
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 11, 2020 20:56:13 GMT -5
Kind of messed up to hate Simmons because he went to college. Why would we want dumb players? No I was referring to Bavarbeast being educated for not wanting Simmons
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 11, 2020 20:57:19 GMT -5
Kind of messed up to hate Simmons because he went to college. Why would we want dumb players? giantlegacy isn't educated Judging by your posts I'd be willing to bet I am the educated one compared to you and 95% of this forum would agree with me
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 11, 2020 21:30:24 GMT -5
giantlegacy isn't educated Judging by your posts I'd be willing to bet I am the educated one compared to you and 95% of this forum would agree with meNot a ****ing chance. 95% of this forum has never agreed on anything ever. I doubt 95% of this forum thinks drafting Chase Young is a good idea. In a recent poll only 92% of the forum want to win the Super Bowl this year, the other 8% hope we do bad so we can fire DG.
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