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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 4:06:19 GMT -5
not quite sure what is being said Choose your words better
I choose words according to whom I am posting with...I am attempting to make them easier for you, Mike, to understand as they involve some advanced data  So in recap - from the boys down in the lab, or a single writer from the lab 1 -We need more pass defense help, namely a cornerback (Many down in draft 101 have said sign a corner and/or even draft one...deep free agent class, and deep draft at corner) 2 - Leonard Williams is better at the run, don't sign him...we have guys like that and they are overrated and not worth the money (Entire board wants him for either we have to as DG gone messed up, or he's not a bad run defender...you yourself have put a few amounts down for a giggle) 3 - Trade back (We all realize that, and this one I do believe you might of made a few hundred posts saying the same thing) 4 - Get an OT, but don't be ashamed if we take WR before a OT (Most down here want a WR, but not a popular decision as most want a OT taken first, after a trade back or at 4...you want Simmons) -------------------- Just a writer from the lab, offering some opinion off the data. The lab and the data suggest Williams as a decent player, but better against the run. This writer would let him walk by not compounding the mistake. I and a few others have said that a while back. 15 for Williams or 18 for Chris Jones?  Get ready for the next Gettleman overpaid contract for meh...sorry to call out the bad moves on your Barkley jersey maker, but this is not just PFF, but the other sites I belong too and every fan not named NY Giant fan boys say the same thing...brutal pick at 2 overall...amazingly HORRIBLE pick. I hope he scores a touchdown soon for you, so you can say..."see, I told you so, he scored a touchdown off a jump cut and speed". Still does not change the data. Please do tell me again, what are the Dave Gettleman moves you liked? Oh yeah, all of them.  |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 13, 2020 6:30:17 GMT -5
Nope Yes Yes Nope No to a CB. It's not a need. Yes to letting Williams walk. Duh. Yes to trading back (unless Young is there). No we shouldnt go WR in the 1st round over OT. Dumb. I still believe CB is a need...Baker is still on the let's see where it goes zone, and the other B's are not making me feel it. Agreed with OT over WR in round 1, although I believe (could be wrong) he was suggesting that after a trade back. Well, technically CB is always a need. It's rare you have 3-4 CBs who are above average, which is what you need these days. I just dont think we can afford to go CB at 4 with Okuduh or something. 4 picks last year on CBs. They need to develop. And you want to help them? Get a serious pass rusher. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 9:41:46 GMT -5
I still believe CB is a need...Baker is still on the let's see where it goes zone, and the other B's are not making me feel it. Agreed with OT over WR in round 1, although I believe (could be wrong) he was suggesting that after a trade back. Well, technically CB is always a need. It's rare you have 3-4 CBs who are above average, which is what you need these days. I just dont think we can afford to go CB at 4 with Okuduh or something. 4 picks last year on CBs. They need to develop. And you want to help them? Get a serious pass rusher. Nothing I don't agree with here...but we could use a corner in free agency. BUT DAMN...Okuduh is for sure a special talent. |
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Post by bringsimmsback on Mar 13, 2020 11:03:17 GMT -5
Well, technically CB is always a need. It's rare you have 3-4 CBs who are above average, which is what you need these days. I just dont think we can afford to go CB at 4 with Okuduh or something. 4 picks last year on CBs. They need to develop. And you want to help them? Get a serious pass rusher. Nothing I don't agree with here...but we could use a corner in free agency. BUT DAMN...Okuduh is for sure a special talent. I think it all comes down to how they are rated - if Okudah is there and is rated as a perennial All-Pro by our scouts while the other options are just really good, gotta take him. If all rated the same, I'd go OT (preferred trade down not available). |
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Post by nygiantsfan1029 on Mar 13, 2020 14:53:12 GMT -5
We need a wr but taking one #1 is a mistake. There are bigger issues on this team. The best wr isn’t gonna help if your QB doesn’t have the time to get the ball to him.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 13, 2020 15:26:15 GMT -5
Just a writer from the lab, offering some opinion off the data. We can get along just fine as long as you remember this. Nothing they produce is concrete, no matter how advanced their stats are.
If you want to know my opinion of DG and his moves by all means make a thread about it, no sense taking this one in that direction.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 13, 2020 16:35:57 GMT -5
I'm just the messenger...and remember, PFF is not one guy...they have well over 300 doing the data...this is one writers article. In a draft this deep at WR I don't think that is a good move there is only a few difference makers at LB and Tackle waste that first rounder you will be on the outside looking in. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 13, 2020 16:40:23 GMT -5
I choose words according to whom I am posting with...I am attempting to make them easier for you, Mike, to understand as they involve some advanced data So in recap - from the boys down in the lab, or a single writer from the lab 1 -We need more pass defense help, namely a cornerback (Many down in draft 101 have said sign a corner and/or even draft one...deep free agent class, and deep draft at corner) 2 - Leonard Williams is better at the run, don't sign him...we have guys like that and they are overrated and not worth the money (Entire board wants him for either we have to as DG gone messed up, or he's not a bad run defender...you yourself have put a few amounts down for a giggle) 3 - Trade back (We all realize that, and this one I do believe you might of made a few hundred posts saying the same thing) 4 - Get an OT, but don't be ashamed if we take WR before a OT (Most down here want a WR, but not a popular decision as most want a OT taken first, after a trade back or at 4...you want Simmons) -------------------- Just a writer from the lab, offering some opinion off the data. The lab and the data suggest Williams as a decent player, but better against the run. This writer would let him walk by not compounding the mistake. I and a few others have said that a while back. 15 for Williams or 18 for Chris Jones? Get ready for the next Gettleman overpaid contract for meh...sorry to call out the bad moves on your Barkley jersey maker, but this is not just PFF, but the other sites I belong too and every fan not named NY Giant fan boys say the same thing...brutal pick at 2 overall...amazingly HORRIBLE pick. I hope he scores a touchdown soon for you, so you can say..."see, I told you so, he scored a touchdown off a jump cut and speed". Still does not change the data. Please do tell me again, what are the Dave Gettleman moves you liked? Oh yeah, all of them. I lethe trade down option but what if there isn't a partner there is a good chance there might not be. guess they think you just trade down as far as where you can find a taker. Leaving the top 8 would not be a good move. I like what they are saying just not in the order don't want to lose on a tackle for a WR been there done that with OBJ. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 17:24:24 GMT -5
Just a writer from the lab, offering some opinion off the data. We can get along just fine as long as you remember this. Nothing they produce is concrete, no matter how advanced their stats are.
If you want to know my opinion of DG and his moves by all means make a thread about it, no sense taking this one in that direction.
Well, he's my cousin...and after reading your posts, be believes you might be "challenged" regarding football I tried to steer him way from your Solder is a great signing post, but he managed to locate it....sorry man.  We did get a good laugh out of it...especially after he put up the data.   But seriously, no need of your opinion on DG's moves...it's universal outside of the fanboys of the NY Giants, he's a complete buffoon. Our only hope is Judge...and Jones....and signing Clowney. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 13, 2020 17:26:56 GMT -5
Interesting..... Kind of wild how they value a 1st round WR over an OT for Jones Thats why most don't pay them much mind PFF that is. Now the Analytics are great knowing how to use them and what to do with the information is even more important. The Ravens and a few other teams have done a good job getting the info and applying it correctly team building and in game use. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 17:29:43 GMT -5
I choose words according to whom I am posting with...I am attempting to make them easier for you, Mike, to understand as they involve some advanced data So in recap - from the boys down in the lab, or a single writer from the lab 1 -We need more pass defense help, namely a cornerback (Many down in draft 101 have said sign a corner and/or even draft one...deep free agent class, and deep draft at corner) 2 - Leonard Williams is better at the run, don't sign him...we have guys like that and they are overrated and not worth the money (Entire board wants him for either we have to as DG gone messed up, or he's not a bad run defender...you yourself have put a few amounts down for a giggle) 3 - Trade back (We all realize that, and this one I do believe you might of made a few hundred posts saying the same thing) 4 - Get an OT, but don't be ashamed if we take WR before a OT (Most down here want a WR, but not a popular decision as most want a OT taken first, after a trade back or at 4...you want Simmons) -------------------- Just a writer from the lab, offering some opinion off the data. The lab and the data suggest Williams as a decent player, but better against the run. This writer would let him walk by not compounding the mistake. I and a few others have said that a while back. 15 for Williams or 18 for Chris Jones? Get ready for the next Gettleman overpaid contract for meh...sorry to call out the bad moves on your Barkley jersey maker, but this is not just PFF, but the other sites I belong too and every fan not named NY Giant fan boys say the same thing...brutal pick at 2 overall...amazingly HORRIBLE pick. I hope he scores a touchdown soon for you, so you can say..."see, I told you so, he scored a touchdown off a jump cut and speed". Still does not change the data. Please do tell me again, what are the Dave Gettleman moves you liked? Oh yeah, all of them. I lethe trade down option but what if there isn't a partner there is a good chance there might not be. guess they think you just trade down as far as where you can find a taker. Leaving the top 8 would not be a good move. I like what they are saying just not in the order don't want to lose on a tackle for a WR been there done that with OBJ. Yeah, and I'm not sure teams are going ga ga over Herbert...or Love. Once it goes Burrow and Tua as I believe, the Lions are going Chase young, and we will be picking BPA I won't like it, but I can see Jeff Okudah or Simmons before OT...and IMHO, that would be a huge mistake. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 13, 2020 17:30:19 GMT -5
Well, technically CB is always a need. It's rare you have 3-4 CBs who are above average, which is what you need these days. I just dont think we can afford to go CB at 4 with Okuduh or something. 4 picks last year on CBs. They need to develop. And you want to help them? Get a serious pass rusher. Nothing I don't agree with here...but we could use a corner in free agency. BUT DAMN...Okuduh is for sure a special talent. Hard to pass on him a corner like that is expensive having him on rookie deal tough decision. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 17:34:26 GMT -5
Nothing I don't agree with here...but we could use a corner in free agency. BUT DAMN...Okuduh is for sure a special talent. Hard to pass on him a corner like that is expensive having him on rookie deal tough decision. He's a incredible player, but I sense no plug and play tackles left in the 2nd round...OT's are too reached for. And when I say incredible, I am talking shut down in the real sense....and a far better pick, IMHO, over Simmons if we decide to go with one or the other. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 13, 2020 17:39:40 GMT -5
I lethe trade down option but what if there isn't a partner there is a good chance there might not be. guess they think you just trade down as far as where you can find a taker. Leaving the top 8 would not be a good move. I like what they are saying just not in the order don't want to lose on a tackle for a WR been there done that with OBJ. Yeah, and I'm not sure teams are going ga ga over Herbert...or Love. Once it goes Burrow and Tua as I believe, the Lions are going Chase young, and we will be picking BPA I won't like it, but I can see Jeff Okudah or Simmons before OT...and IMHO, that would be a huge mistake. I always say I wouldn't complain about those 2 choices but what I want is a Tackle. That said those are 2 really talented kids we could do a lot worse. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 13, 2020 18:04:01 GMT -5
We need a wr but taking one #1 is a mistake. There are bigger issues on this team. The best wr isn’t gonna help if your QB doesn’t have the time to get the ball to him. Are you sure? I feel like the better part of a decade just isn't a big enough sample size to make any kind of determination about that. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 13, 2020 18:16:46 GMT -5
Hard to pass on him a corner like that is expensive having him on rookie deal tough decision. He's a incredible player, but I sense no plug and play tackles left in the 2nd round...OT's are too reached for. And when I say incredible, I am talking shut down in the real sense....and a far better pick, IMHO, over Simmons if we decide to go with one or the other. I agree 100% Simmons really needs a coach or coaches that can make him the center piece of there scheme and find his best traits and use them. To me you take Wirfs or Wills Thomas and throw Okudah in there too they will no exactly what to do with them and they all seem to be ready to go now. |
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 13, 2020 18:24:58 GMT -5
But seriously, no need of your opinion on DG's moves...it's universal outside of the fanboys of the NY Giants, he's a complete buffoon. Our only hope is Judge...and Jones....and signing Clowney. If he was a complete buffoon you would not be clinging to his choice of QB (that you roasted him for last year citing PFF as the reason not to take him) and his choice of coach (even though you roasted him for that because Ron Rivera and Mike McCarthy).
Fact is I am looking at advanced stats right now that prove how good of a GM DG is...I of course can't share them with you because it's a pay site that would press charges on me if I shared their super advanced stats. 
I'm sure Clowney will do good with Williams taking all the double teams and Golden chasing the QB out of the pocket, I just hope he can make the tackle/sack/pressure/hit/tackle when he beats his blocker.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 13, 2020 18:30:43 GMT -5
Yeah, and I'm not sure teams are going ga ga over Herbert...or Love. Once it goes Burrow and Tua as I believe, the Lions are going Chase young, and we will be picking BPA I won't like it, but I can see Jeff Okudah or Simmons before OT...and IMHO, that would be a huge mistake. I don't think teams are dieing for Herbert or Love either, I do think they are desperate for a QB though. That leads me to think they won't be trading up if Tua isn't there. I also think people are underrating Fromm. 24+ TDs and 7- INTs each of 3 years in college plus very good accuracy. Last year was pretty poor because other than his LT no one was worth a damn. Might be too harsh but his WRs were trash. Compare that to Tua who had 3 first round WRs. Some team will luck their way into Fromm in the last first, early 2nd and I can see him being the best in this class. |
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 13, 2020 18:34:44 GMT -5
He's a incredible player, but I sense no plug and play tackles left in the 2nd round...OT's are too reached for. And when I say incredible, I am talking shut down in the real sense....and a far better pick, IMHO, over Simmons if we decide to go with one or the other. I agree 100% Simmons really needs a coach or coaches that can make him the center piece of there scheme and find his best traits and use them. To me you take Wirfs or Wills Thomas and throw Okudah in there too they will no exactly what to do with them and they all seem to be ready to go now. I agree using the OTs or CB is definitely easier than using Simmons BUT I think our staff can do it. They preach versatility up and down the roster and that is what he does best. I have no fear of them not being able to use him. If it were a staff from our resent past that would be different. I still think he is in play for Detroit at 3 though, unless Young falls or they realize they have no CBs. |
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rbe40
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Post by rbe40 on Mar 13, 2020 18:35:21 GMT -5
Nope Yes Yes Nope No to a CB. It's not a need. Yes to letting Williams walk. Duh. Yes to trading back (unless Young is there). No we shouldnt go WR in the 1st round over OT. Dumb. LW is a must-sign. Not signing LW means losing the best player on the defense. Why do you think it's a good idea to lose the best defensive player we have? NO to letting Williams walk. Duh. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 13, 2020 18:44:45 GMT -5
Nope Yes Yes Nope No to a CB. It's not a need. Yes to letting Williams walk. Duh. Yes to trading back (unless Young is there). No we shouldnt go WR in the 1st round over OT. Dumb. LW is a must-sign. Not signing LW means losing the best player on the defense. Why do you think it's a good idea to lose the best defensive player we have? NO to letting Williams walk. Duh. #1 Say he is the best player on a terrible defense isnt saying much (although I disagree with saying he is the best). #2 You dont give in to his contract demands which are obviously very high. He is a solid player, just not worth paying him max money the way our current teams roster is. I'm willing to bet Lawrence is only going to get closer to becoming a monster, and on a rookie contract. We need to pay guys who rush the passer and protect our passer. Not that anything me or you say will make any differnece on what actually happens. |
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Post by rbe40 on Mar 13, 2020 18:57:39 GMT -5
LW is a must-sign. Not signing LW means losing the best player on the defense. Why do you think it's a good idea to lose the best defensive player we have? NO to letting Williams walk. Duh. #1 Say he is the best player on a terrible defense isnt saying much (although I disagree with saying he is the best). #2 You dont give in to his contract demands which are obviously very high. He is a solid player, just not worth paying him max money the way our current teams roster is. I'm willing to bet Lawrence is only going to get closer to becoming a monster, and on a rookie contract. We need to pay guys who rush the passer and protect our passer. Not that anything me or you say will make any differnece on what actually happens. He literally led all IDL in QB Hits and finished 13th in Pressure Rate among 87 IDL. Who's asking for Max money? Williams debunked rumors that he wants $15 mil. He'll probably wind up with $12-13 million. The Giants NEED to spend money anyways - they have the lowest cap money allocated to defense. Lastly, Dexter Lawrence's contract is irrelevant to the LW contract. With the 5th year option, Dexter's rookie contract would end after the 2023 season. That's a long time from now. Dexter and LW also play different positions in our 3-4 defense. LW being here also makes Dexter a better player. So I'm not sure u even have a point? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 19:00:20 GMT -5
But seriously, no need of your opinion on DG's moves...it's universal outside of the fanboys of the NY Giants, he's a complete buffoon. Our only hope is Judge...and Jones....and signing Clowney. If he was a complete buffoon you would not be clinging to his choice of QB (that you roasted him for last year citing PFF as the reason not to take him) and his choice of coach (even though you roasted him for that because Ron Rivera and Mike McCarthy).
Fact is I am looking at advanced stats right now that prove how good of a GM DG is...I of course can't share them with you because it's a pay site that would press charges on me if I shared their super advanced stats.
I'm sure Clowney will do good with Williams taking all the double teams and Golden chasing the QB out of the pocket, I just hope he can make the tackle/sack/pressure/hit/tackle when he beats his blocker.
PFF hates Clowney as a free agent...overrated they say. I might be canceling my subscription. I can only share my PFF stats if we become BFF's...PFF for a BFF is how I roll Mike. For the other posters other than yourself, or as I call them...the far more insightful posters, I shall post the PFF on Clowney free agent take This is top secret stuff...please read once and then destroy |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 19:02:33 GMT -5
We need a wr but taking one #1 is a mistake. There are bigger issues on this team. The best wr isn’t gonna help if your QB doesn’t have the time to get the ball to him. Are you sure? I feel like the better part of a decade just isn't a big enough sample size to make any kind of determination about that.  We need more data |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 19:06:28 GMT -5
I agree 100% Simmons really needs a coach or coaches that can make him the center piece of there scheme and find his best traits and use them. To me you take Wirfs or Wills Thomas and throw Okudah in there too they will no exactly what to do with them and they all seem to be ready to go now. I agree using the OTs or CB is definitely easier than using Simmons BUT I think our staff can do it. They preach versatility up and down the roster and that is what he does best. I have no fear of them not being able to use him. If it were a staff from our resent past that would be different. I still think he is in play for Detroit at 3 though, unless Young falls or they realize they have no CBs.  |
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 13, 2020 19:39:48 GMT -5
PFF hates Clowney as a free agent...overrated they say. They probably just don't know that he is the "best edge defender in the NFL" -(Direct Aris Quote). Maybe you should send them some video evidence that you posted here. I have no clue why they would think a guy with 3 sacks and 31 tackles is overrated, don't they know he was double teamed 26% of the time? Why would teams do that if he wasn't amazing? He beat his blocker at a very high rate even though he had a belly injury.
Get your money back, these guys are terrible....I mean until the next time they say something we like right?
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 13, 2020 20:20:41 GMT -5
I agree 100% Simmons really needs a coach or coaches that can make him the center piece of there scheme and find his best traits and use them. To me you take Wirfs or Wills Thomas and throw Okudah in there too they will no exactly what to do with them and they all seem to be ready to go now. I agree using the OTs or CB is definitely easier than using Simmons BUT I think our staff can do it. They preach versatility up and down the roster and that is what he does best. I have no fear of them not being able to use him. If it were a staff from our resent past that would be different. I still think he is in play for Detroit at 3 though, unless Young falls or they realize they have no CBs. Simmons is a linebacker so they have a place to start. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2020 3:43:49 GMT -5
PFF hates Clowney as a free agent...overrated they say. They probably just don't know that he is the "best edge defender in the NFL" -(Direct Aris Quote). Maybe you should send them some video evidence that you posted here. I have no clue why they would think a guy with 3 sacks and 31 tackles is overrated, don't they know he was double teamed 26% of the time? Why would teams do that if he wasn't amazing? He beat his blocker at a very high rate even though he had a belly injury.
Get your money back, these guys are terrible....I mean until the next time they say something we like right?
They go past the slow stats for those who are a bit challenged...they do say he's great against the run...have the secret data here, but average against the pass. Too bed you are not part of us advanced stat fans... and sadly the other advanced stat guys, snobby bastards... suggest not talking to a guy who got excited when we signed Patrick Omameh, and mentor running back Jonathan Stewart..."great signings ....we hired the right man for the job....once he signs up Solder, I believe we win a Super Bowl while rebuilding" That was crazy chocolate land talk Mike...we need more realism and thought going past emotional happy land into, common sense and breaking down the actual...well, advanced stats. They were horrible signings. If only, Dave Gettleman would of checked down with the boys at the PFF lab on these, and well... actually, all of his brutal signings. ....oh, one more thing....PFF only for my BFF....but I will sneak a few stats your way...help you with the 3 and 31 totals you stat deprived fans get hung up on and make yourselves look a bit silly. |
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