rbe40
Special Teams
Posts: 800
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Post by rbe40 on Mar 22, 2020 23:35:06 GMT -5
It's very possible.
I want to remove all temptation of them drafting Simmons to focus on the LT.
We know NYG are not taking Okudah for sure, after the Bradberry signing.
Lions would really help us by drafting Simmons and not making it a choice to go LT.
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Post by lexington11 on Mar 23, 2020 2:32:23 GMT -5
It's very possible. I want to remove all temptation of them drafting Simmons to focus on the LT. We know NYG are not taking Okudah for sure, after the Bradberry signing. Lions would really help us by drafting Simmons and not making it a choice to go LT. lol. Who knows but after trading slay, I think it’s almost a lock they take okudah, barring young doesn’t fall, he’s that good. Then the giants take Simmons, followed by gross Matos, then Ben bartch, and this board completely melts down.
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 23, 2020 5:49:01 GMT -5
This was interesting..................... wow!!
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Post by piddy283 on Mar 23, 2020 8:43:24 GMT -5
It's very possible. I want to remove all temptation of them drafting Simmons to focus on the LT. We know NYG are not taking Okudah for sure, after the Bradberry signing. Lions would really help us by drafting Simmons and not making it a choice to go LT. It's absolutely possible, but I disagree it makes us go OT. We go OT if we think OT is the best position available I actually believe DG would draft Okudah if he thinks he's worth the #4 pick. I don't think the Bradberry acquisition would sway DG not to, he's done similar things in the past. In fact, if we decided to draft Okudah, we'd have one of the best groups of CB's in the NFL, if not the best.....at least on paper. That's pretty attractive in a "passing league." If we stay at #4, I want an OT. No doubt. I'm a fan of the Fab 4 prospects, and think they'd all be upgrades on the right side. That said, and I'll continue to say it, don't be shocked if DG ends up going OLB, CB, WR, or even DL, at #4, and addresses the OL in later rounds. It's a deep draft for OL talent, and DG has a track record of finding studs in mid/late rounds.
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Post by bavarobeast on Mar 23, 2020 10:27:16 GMT -5
Regardless I don't think we go Simmons at #4. At least I hope not - we have bigger needs.
I think we will add either premier protection or a top tier weapon for DJ in the first round.
Thomas or Jeudy.
I think Thomas because the WR pool of top end targets is deeper than top end OL.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 23, 2020 10:46:21 GMT -5
It's very possible. I want to remove all temptation of them drafting Simmons to focus on the LT. We know NYG are not taking Okudah for sure, after the Bradberry signing. Lions would really help us by drafting Simmons and not making it a choice to go LT. If Simmons is available at #4 and we pass, then Dave is full of shit when he talks about "BPA".
Other than Chase Young, Simmons is pretty much the best player in this draft.
Now if he picks Becton at #4 I would give him a pass because that kid has a chance to be the best OT in the league. But right now, Simmons is a better player.
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Post by bavarobeast on Mar 23, 2020 11:26:31 GMT -5
It's very possible. I want to remove all temptation of them drafting Simmons to focus on the LT. We know NYG are not taking Okudah for sure, after the Bradberry signing. Lions would really help us by drafting Simmons and not making it a choice to go LT. If Simmons is available at #4 and we pass, then Dave is full of shit when he talks about "BPA".
Other than Chase Young, Simmons is pretty much the best player in this draft.
Now if he picks Becton at #4 I would give him a pass because that kid has a chance to be the best OT in the league. But right now, Simmons is a better player.
Wow, You're usually pretty on target with assessments - I guess no one is perfect. Simmons at #4 would be a huge mistake IMHO.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 23, 2020 11:28:30 GMT -5
If Simmons is available at #4 and we pass, then Dave is full of shit when he talks about "BPA".
Other than Chase Young, Simmons is pretty much the best player in this draft.
Now if he picks Becton at #4 I would give him a pass because that kid has a chance to be the best OT in the league. But right now, Simmons is a better player.
Wow, You're usually pretty on target with assessments - I guess no one is perfect. Simmons at #4 would be a huge mistake IMHO. As I said, I would be fine with Becton at #4. Would show some guts from Dave. If you are talking about "need" I guess you could say that OT is a huge need. But our defense was also horrible and Simmons would be a great addition.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Mar 23, 2020 11:43:06 GMT -5
I too think the Lions go Okudah at #3, especially with Sleigh gone. Or of course they could trade out. There the one's in the catbird seat, great position. And they could still wind up with their man at #5, 6, 7.
I personally am rooting for OT. A strong OT to run Saquon behind would go a long way. To build a strong Ol for our young QB is a necessity to be a winning team.
But if we draft Simmons I'm not upset one iota. He would be a great piece in our defense. He would immediately make our defense significantly stronger.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2020 11:56:07 GMT -5
Detroit can go QB also..
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Post by Blue Hulk on Mar 25, 2020 10:28:20 GMT -5
This was interesting..................... Scherff had a big following on here.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 25, 2020 12:46:45 GMT -5
It's very possible. I want to remove all temptation of them drafting Simmons to focus on the LT. We know NYG are not taking Okudah for sure, after the Bradberry signing. Lions would really help us by drafting Simmons and not making it a choice to go LT. If Simmons is available at #4 and we pass, then Dave is full of shit when he talks about "BPA".
Other than Chase Young, Simmons is pretty much the best player in this draft.
Now if he picks Becton at #4 I would give him a pass because that kid has a chance to be the best OT in the league. But right now, Simmons is a better player.
You've evaluated these players and determined that Simmons is rated higher than all of the OT's?
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Post by lexington11 on Mar 25, 2020 14:47:23 GMT -5
If Simmons is available at #4 and we pass, then Dave is full of shit when he talks about "BPA".
Other than Chase Young, Simmons is pretty much the best player in this draft.
Now if he picks Becton at #4 I would give him a pass because that kid has a chance to be the best OT in the league. But right now, Simmons is a better player.
You've evaluated these players and determined that Simmons is rated higher than all of the OT's? no the professionals have, it's pretty much common knowledge and player rankings are available all over the internet. okudah is ranked higher as well.
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 25, 2020 14:55:57 GMT -5
You've evaluated these players and determined that Simmons is rated higher than all of the OT's? no the professionals have, it's pretty much common knowledge and player rankings are available all over the internet. okudah is ranked higher as well. teams have their own scouting departments for a reason.
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Post by TEM on Mar 25, 2020 15:01:16 GMT -5
You've evaluated these players and determined that Simmons is rated higher than all of the OT's? no the professionals have, it's pretty much common knowledge and player rankings are available all over the internet. okudah is ranked higher as well. Yet none of them are in an NFL FO. I wonder why that is?
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 25, 2020 15:24:23 GMT -5
You've evaluated these players and determined that Simmons is rated higher than all of the OT's? no the professionals have, it's pretty much common knowledge and player rankings are available all over the internet. okudah is ranked higher as well. lol … the internet rankings are done by professionals? ok ….
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 25, 2020 19:57:54 GMT -5
lol … the internet rankings are done by professionals? ok …. Technically if they get paid to do it then yes it's done by professionals.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 25, 2020 19:59:01 GMT -5
no the professionals have, it's pretty much common knowledge and player rankings are available all over the internet. okudah is ranked higher as well. Yet none of them are in an NFL FO. I wonder why that is? Clearly they are not in a FO because they don't have a perfect record of assessing college players like the guys in NFL front offices do
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 25, 2020 20:05:15 GMT -5
If Simmons is available at #4 and we pass, then Dave is full of shit when he talks about "BPA".
Other than Chase Young, Simmons is pretty much the best player in this draft.
Now if he picks Becton at #4 I would give him a pass because that kid has a chance to be the best OT in the league. But right now, Simmons is a better player.
You've evaluated these players and determined that Simmons is rated higher than all of the OT's? If we had a great OL this board would be losing their Fing minds at the thought of not picking Simmons. He is absolutely the best player after Young.
We have such a massive need for an OL so people are convincing themselves these OL are as good as him. They are good, it's a great OT year, but not a single one of them is on his level. If they were there would not be a debate about which OT is the best, that guy would be the best according to everyone. Do you see anyone debating who is better Simmons or Murray/Queen? No. People can't figure out which OT is the best because either A) they are all very good players but not great or B) this year for the first time ever we have 4 world class OTs in one draft class. Which one seems more likely?
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 26, 2020 1:06:12 GMT -5
You've evaluated these players and determined that Simmons is rated higher than all of the OT's? If we had a great OL this board would be losing their Fing minds at the thought of not picking Simmons. He is absolutely the best player after Young.
We have such a massive need for an OL so people are convincing themselves these OL are as good as him. They are good, it's a great OT year, but not a single one of them is on his level. If they were there would not be a debate about which OT is the best, that guy would be the best according to everyone. Do you see anyone debating who is better Simmons or Murray/Queen? No. People can't figure out which OT is the best because either A) they are all very good players but not great or B) this year for the first time ever we have 4 world class OTs in one draft class. Which one seems more likely?
The statement that Simmons “is absolutely the best player after Young” is based upon your own personal evaluation or the evaluations of internet “professionals”?
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Post by TEM on Mar 26, 2020 6:19:07 GMT -5
You've evaluated these players and determined that Simmons is rated higher than all of the OT's? If we had a great OL this board would be losing their Fing minds at the thought of not picking Simmons. He is absolutely the best player after Young.
We have such a massive need for an OL so people are convincing themselves these OL are as good as him. They are good, it's a great OT year, but not a single one of them is on his level. If they were there would not be a debate about which OT is the best, that guy would be the best according to everyone. Do you see anyone debating who is better Simmons or Murray/Queen? No. People can't figure out which OT is the best because either A) they are all very good players but not great or B) this year for the first time ever we have 4 world class OTs in one draft class. Which one seems more likely?
Convinced they are good? This is probably the best O-line class since this one John Hannah ( ironically) 1st round (4th overall) of the 1973 NFL Draft. www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HannJo00.htm Joe DeLamielleure www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DeLaJo01.htmLeon Gray www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrayLe00.htmEd Newman www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewmEd00.htmJerry Sisemore www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SiseJe00.htmLarry McCarren www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCaLa00.htmThis is not just talk with the linemen in this upcoming Draft class. They are legitimate and deep . If we play our cards right. We can get a good OT and Center ( Day one starters) To be clear. Yea I am comparing this O-line class to the 73 class. Why the 4 OT at the top are so hard to separate. They are all a top 10 pick worthy. Add Jackson and Wilson There will be 6 draftred in the 1st round.
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Post by TEM on Mar 26, 2020 6:20:54 GMT -5
Yet none of them are in an NFL FO. I wonder why that is? Clearly they are not in a FO because they don't have a perfect record of assessing college players like the guys in NFL front offices do Our FO has done well the past 2 Drafts.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 26, 2020 8:13:15 GMT -5
The statement that Simmons “is absolutely the best player after Young” is based upon your own personal evaluation or the evaluations of internet “professionals”? Of course. There is some logic behind it that I pointed out. Young, Okudah and Simmons are considered the best player by far at their position because they are such great talents. At OT there is a log jam with 4 guys. So either A) they are all good but none are great or B) they are all great. Which do you think is most likely?
Personally I think its possible that DG rates one of those guys extremely highly, it's just not obvious who that would be. If none of us posted our opinions this place would be pretty boring.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 26, 2020 8:16:04 GMT -5
Convinced they are good? This is probably the best O-line class since this one I agree with you 100% this is the best OT class in a very long time and I have said that over and over for months. However you are misunderstanding what I just posted. I didn't say we are convinced they are good, I said "as good as him". Meaning, these OTs are all very good, but none of them are great. Young, Simmons and Okudah are all considered to be great talents at their positions.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 26, 2020 8:16:51 GMT -5
Clearly they are not in a FO because they don't have a perfect record of assessing college players like the guys in NFL front offices do Our FO has done well the past 2 Drafts. Oh I trust our FO unlike some people around here.
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Post by TEM on Mar 26, 2020 8:29:58 GMT -5
Convinced they are good? This is probably the best O-line class since this one I agree with you 100% this is the best OT class in a very long time and I have said that over and over for months. However you are misunderstanding what I just posted. I didn't say we are convinced they are good, I said "as good as him". Meaning, these OTs are all very good, but none of them are great. Young, Simmons and Okudah are all considered to be great talents at their positions. Young I agree with. You know my thoughts on Simmons . At the same time I am not going to dismiss his draft potential because of my own opinion. Okudah, I doubt he is high on our board. Not that he is not good. It is just,I do not see him as a player who gives the most impact on day 1. IMO: he is not a prolific as one of the OTs , Young or Simmons. I think it boils down to that simple metric.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 26, 2020 9:22:16 GMT -5
Young I agree with. You know my thoughts on Simmons . At the same time I am not going to dismiss his draft potential because of my own opinion. Okudah, I doubt he is high on our board. Not that he is not good. It is just,I do not see him as a player who gives the most impact on day 1. IMO: he is not a prolific as one of the OTs , Young or Simmons. I think it boils down to that simple metric. I am not even talking about our own opinions. I am talking about the general consensus out there. Predicting who goes to what team is tough, most of the time it's easy to predict which player will go first in his position because they are clearly better than the other players at his position. That's the case every year with guys considered to be the best prospects and great candidates. When there are 4 candidates rated equally that means none of them are considered GREAT.
It's no secret that the closer to the top 5 a pick is the better odds he is a Pro Bowler, All Pro and Hall of Famer. Because picking out the premier talents (top 3-5 guys) in each class is pretty easy to spot. This does not guarantee success of course. In 2019 in was Nick Bosa; in 2018 you have Barkley, Nelson, Ward and Chubb.
I don't think we will take Okudah either, but he is absolutely a great talent.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2020 9:50:34 GMT -5
If we had a great OL this board would be losing their Fing minds at the thought of not picking Simmons. He is absolutely the best player after Young.
We have such a massive need for an OL so people are convincing themselves these OL are as good as him. They are good, it's a great OT year, but not a single one of them is on his level. If they were there would not be a debate about which OT is the best, that guy would be the best according to everyone. Do you see anyone debating who is better Simmons or Murray/Queen? No. People can't figure out which OT is the best because either A) they are all very good players but not great or B) this year for the first time ever we have 4 world class OTs in one draft class. Which one seems more likely?
This is not just talk with the linemen in this upcoming Draft class. They are legitimate and deep . If we play our cards right. We can get a good OT and Center ( Day one starters) To be clear. Yea I am comparing this O-line class to the 73 class. Why the 4 OT at the top are so hard to separate. They are all a top 10 pick worthy. Add Jackson and Wilson There will be 6 draftred in the 1st round. I'm not sure Wilson or Jackson are going 1st round...unless a team really reaches Josh Jones though?...yeah.
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Post by gmen1219 on Mar 26, 2020 9:52:37 GMT -5
In my opinion, I think it's more likely that the Giants take one of the top 4 OTs with the 4th pick, but I would absolutely be happy if we take Simmons at 4, as long as they focus on OL in the 2nd round. There should be 5-7 OL taken in round one. As others have mentioned, this is one of the best OL drafts in some time. Maybe a 1st round OT prospect falls to us in the second or maybe we trade up with out 2nd pick to take one at the end of the first.
Ideally, we could trade back from 4th overall and still get either Simmons or an OT with our first pick, but I think after free agency it seems pretty unlikely. Not many teams need QBs right now and I don't know if any team would give up that many assets to trade up to 4. But this would be ideal if a team did, that way we can address the both OL and the defense by adding multiple starters and hopefully a stud.
We are not in a position to win a Superbowl next year. We cannot afford to not take the best player available and make another Ereck Flowers type of mistake in this draft. This thing isn't going to be completely fixed overnight. If we miss out on Simmons or one of the top 4 OTs, it's not the end of the world, there's always next offseason to address the holes, especially when we will almost certainly be in a better position to win in 2021 as opposed to 2020.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 26, 2020 9:55:41 GMT -5
The statement that Simmons “is absolutely the best player after Young” is based upon your own personal evaluation or the evaluations of internet “professionals”? Of course. There is some logic behind it that I pointed out. Young, Okudah and Simmons are considered the best player by far at their position because they are such great talents. At OT there is a log jam with 4 guys. So either A) they are all good but none are great or B) they are all great. Which do you think is most likely?
Personally I think its possible that DG rates one of those guys extremely highly, it's just not obvious who that would be. If none of us posted our opinions this place would be pretty boring.
I don't understand your answer - are you doing your own evals or relying on internet evaluations? Personally, I don't evaluate on my own … just rely upon certain internet guys who I respect (former NFL guys, etc.). Try not to pay any attention to the "mom's basement scouts" who set up their own "scouting" site and are now suddenly scouts (Draft Network, etc.)
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