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Post by TEM on Apr 6, 2020 7:52:37 GMT -5
It’s not hate or dreams. I think it’s a well thought out, rational argument to take the OT over Simmons. Daniel Jones’ development is the most important issue of this season. This drafts strengths offer the resources to provide him with instant upgrades at tackle, center, and WR. The ancillary benefits of giving Barkley space to do what he can do and immediate cap relief are icing. I’m not allergic to defense. I’d take Chase Young at 4. He is an immense talent at a premier position that is a priority need. From watching this fIlm review, I think Simmons is very few of those things. The only argument I hear from the people whose heads aren’t buried in sand is; Our defense was bad and this is a great athlete. There will be other great athletes. There may not be another chance to shepherd Daniel Jones maturation like the one we will have in 3 weeks.. We need a franchise qb, not a great athlete. It is not a hate argument . I looked at some of these highlights . The cover 2 against Ohio State( playoff game) . He had a pick . It was a poorly thrown ball . If the Ball was thrown between the receiver and the sideline. It was a completion. An NFL QB and receiver in the playoffs . That was a take it to the house shot. If he is covering the entire deep seam for half of the field as a LB. Who is on the TE? If an NFl QB see his lined up as a cover 2 or 3 Deep. I am targeting a slant with the TE. That will work every time.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 6, 2020 8:07:24 GMT -5
It’s not hate or dreams. I think it’s a well thought out, rational argument to take the OT over Simmons. Daniel Jones’ development is the most important issue of this season. This drafts strengths offer the resources to provide him with instant upgrades at tackle, center, and WR. The ancillary benefits of giving Barkley space to do what he can do and immediate cap relief are icing. I’m not allergic to defense. I’d take Chase Young at 4. He is an immense talent at a premier position that is a priority need. From watching this fIlm review, I think Simmons is very few of those things. The only argument I hear from the people whose heads aren’t buried in sand is; Our defense was bad and this is a great athlete. There will be other great athletes. There may not be another chance to shepherd Daniel Jones maturation like the one we will have in 3 weeks.. We need a franchise qb, not a great athlete. It is not a hate argument . I looked at some of these highlights . The cover 2 against Ohio State( playoff game) . He had a pick . It was a poorly thrown ball . If the Ball was thrown between the receiver and the sideline. It was a completion. An NFL QB and receiver in the playoffs . That was a take it to the house shot. If he is covering the entire deep seam for half of the field as a LB. Who is on the TE? If an NFl QB see his lined up as a cover 2 or 3 Deep. I am targeting a slant with the TE. That will work every time. He was covering the deep middle of the field and saw that the corner had taken a poor first step, which enabled the WR to get a step on him going down the sideline. Simmons recognized this, and was fast enough to get to the sideline and make the play. Absolutely terrific play.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 6, 2020 8:26:03 GMT -5
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Post by TEM on Apr 6, 2020 8:55:34 GMT -5
It is not a hate argument . I looked at some of these highlights . The cover 2 against Ohio State( playoff game) . He had a pick . It was a poorly thrown ball . If the Ball was thrown between the receiver and the sideline. It was a completion. An NFL QB and receiver in the playoffs . That was a take it to the house shot. If he is covering the entire deep seam for half of the field as a LB. Who is on the TE? If an NFl QB see his lined up as a cover 2 or 3 Deep. I am targeting a slant with the TE. That will work every time. He was covering the deep middle of the field and saw that the corner had taken a poor first step, which enabled the WR to get a step on him going down the sideline. Simmons recognized this, and was fast enough to get to the sideline and make the play. Absolutely terrific play. The corner was in his zone and let the receiver into Simmons zone. It was a poorly thrown ball . It was thrown short and not placed properly . If it was between the receiver and the sideline and had the distance . It was a money shot. As I said if your main covering linebacker is back in the Strong Safety position. Who is on the TE? Because he cannot cover a TE in the cover 2 or 3 Deep zone. Philly is not taking Ertz of the field on 3rd down. The Scheme that Clemson used will not fly in the NFL. You are taking your cover safety off the field on 3rd down and replacing him with a LB. You add DBs not take them off the field. He needs to be in the shallow zone in the middle ( hook/ curl zone) as an ILB.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 6, 2020 8:59:33 GMT -5
He was covering the deep middle of the field and saw that the corner had taken a poor first step, which enabled the WR to get a step on him going down the sideline. Simmons recognized this, and was fast enough to get to the sideline and make the play. Absolutely terrific play. The corner was in his zone and let the receiver into Simmons zone. It was a poorly thrown ball . It was thrown short and not placed properly . If it was between the receiver and the sideline and had the distance . It was a money shot. As I said if your main covering linebacker is back in the Strong Safety position. Who is on the TE? Because he cannot cover a TE in the cover 2 or 3 Deep zone. Philly is not taking Ertz of the field on 3rd down. The Scheme that Clemson used will not fly in the NFL. You are taking your cover safety off the field on 3rd down and replacing him with a LB. You add DBs not take them off the field. He needs to be in the shallow zone in the middle ( hook/ curl zone) as an ILB. Yeah, this is completely wrong. He had deep middle coverage. His zone was not the sideline. The ball was thrown fine - the QB just didn't expect Simmons to be able to cover all of that ground and get to the sideline for the pick.
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Post by TEM on Apr 6, 2020 9:00:39 GMT -5
The corner was in his zone and let the receiver into Simmons zone. It was a poorly thrown ball . It was thrown short and not placed properly . If it was between the receiver and the sideline and had the distance . It was a money shot. As I said if your main covering linebacker is back in the Strong Safety position. Who is on the TE? Because he cannot cover a TE in the cover 2 or 3 Deep zone. Philly is not taking Ertz of the field on 3rd down. The Scheme that Clemson used will not fly in the NFL. You are taking your cover safety off the field on 3rd down and replacing him with a LB. You add DBs not take them off the field. He needs to be in the shallow zone in the middle ( hook/ curl zone) as an ILB. Yeah, this is completely wrong. He had deep middle coverage. His zone was not the sideline. The ball was thrown fine - the QB just didn't expect Simmons to be able to cover all of that ground and get to the sideline for the pick. Do you even know what cover 2 and 3 are?
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 6, 2020 9:03:20 GMT -5
Yeah, this is completely wrong. He had deep middle coverage. His zone was not the sideline. The ball was thrown fine - the QB just didn't expect Simmons to be able to cover all of that ground and get to the sideline for the pick. Do you even know what cover 2 and 3 are? lol … dude, you completely misread a very simple play and now you are going to quiz me? The play that you can't comprehend is pretty simple stuff … a HS freshman could break it down. You are completely wrong … and I am not getting drawn into one of your nonsense-fests for the rest of the day. Sorry.
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Post by TEM on Apr 6, 2020 9:21:01 GMT -5
Do you even know what cover 2 and 3 are? lol … dude, you completely misread a very simple play and now you are going to quiz me? The play that you can't comprehend is pretty simple stuff … a HS freshman could break it down. You are completely wrong … and I am not getting drawn into one of your nonsense-fests for the rest of the day. Sorry. Since you don't know. Because it is a very simple answer. Cover 2 The back end of the field is split into 2 Deep zones. On that Play Simmons on that play was in that left deep zone ( from the center of the field to the sideline) Another DB was covering the right side . Because the strong side of the play was on the right. 2 recievers posting the DB had to stay on one of them. And 4 zones underneath Corner, DB/LB. DB/LB, Corner Depending if LBs or DBs are on the field. Each is responsible for his zone. Used on 3rd and long Cover 3 is, 3 deep zones. So are 3 DB back The middle of the field ( shallow) is a cover zero zone. No one in that zone You give the QB that 5 - 6 yard pass in the middle of the field not passed the chains. The guy catches the ball short of the marker and he his swarm tackled.
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 6, 2020 9:26:21 GMT -5
If our coaches can't figure out how to use him we are screwed anyway. Worst case scenario you pick a position and stick him in it. He can play about 4-5 different positions. Best case scenario they use him to the fullest extent possible and continue the evolution. I said this before he reminds me of Brad Van Pelt came out of Mich as a Safety and played LBers for us and could play all the spots. Blasphemy!!!!
He did NOT play for U of M.(boo...)
He played for Sparty!!!!
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 6, 2020 9:31:38 GMT -5
lol … dude, you completely misread a very simple play and now you are going to quiz me? The play that you can't comprehend is pretty simple stuff … a HS freshman could break it down. You are completely wrong … and I am not getting drawn into one of your nonsense-fests for the rest of the day. Sorry. Since you don't know. Because it is a very simple answer. Cover 2 The back end of the field is split into 2 Deep zones. On that Play Simmons on that play was in that left deep zone ( from the center of the field to the sideline) Another DB was covering the right side . Because the strong side of the play was on the right. 2 recievers posting the DB had to stay on one of them. And 4 zones underneath Corner, DB/LB. DB/LB, Corner Depending if LBs or DBs are on the field. Each is responsible for his zone. Used on 3rd and long Cover 3 is, 3 deep zones. So are 3 DB back The middle of the field ( shallow) is a cover zero zone. No one in that zone You give the QB that 5 - 6 yard pass in the middle of the field not passed the chains. The guy catches the ball short of the marker and he his swarm tackled. There is a difference between Googling football phrases and actually knowing what you are looking at on the field. You clearly have no idea what you are looking at.
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Post by TEM on Apr 6, 2020 9:48:47 GMT -5
Since you don't know. Because it is a very simple answer. Cover 2 The back end of the field is split into 2 Deep zones. On that Play Simmons on that play was in that left deep zone ( from the center of the field to the sideline) Another DB was covering the right side . Because the strong side of the play was on the right. 2 recievers posting the DB had to stay on one of them. And 4 zones underneath Corner, DB/LB. DB/LB, Corner Depending if LBs or DBs are on the field. Each is responsible for his zone. Used on 3rd and long Cover 3 is, 3 deep zones. So are 3 DB back The middle of the field ( shallow) is a cover zero zone. No one in that zone You give the QB that 5 - 6 yard pass in the middle of the field not passed the chains. The guy catches the ball short of the marker and he his swarm tackled. There is a difference between Googling football phrases and actually knowing what you are looking at on the field. You clearly have no idea what you are looking at. Even the commentator breaking down the film said it was cover 2. If you really want to understand Zone coverages because they are complicated. A lot is happening on the field in a short amount of time to understand what you are looking at. This is for anyone that wants to understand Zones and why they are used in the way they are. NFL game pass is free right now . In the film session in the coaches section. Spags breaks down Zone schemes in layman's terms and quite eloquently.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 9:50:00 GMT -5
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 6, 2020 9:54:55 GMT -5
Simmons on the right team with the right coaching is going to be a monster.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 6, 2020 10:21:52 GMT -5
I said this before he reminds me of Brad Van Pelt came out of Mich as a Safety and played LBers for us and could play all the spots. Are you sure because I'm not sure how a tweener could ever have success in the NFL. LMAO.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 6, 2020 10:23:03 GMT -5
These were the two plays I was talking about … how do you question the guy's football instincts on these plays? smh
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 6, 2020 10:23:06 GMT -5
Simmons on the right team with the right coaching is going to be a monster. Absolutely. Whether we end up with him or not the potential for him to be a game changer is there.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 6, 2020 10:29:04 GMT -5
These were the two plays I was talking about … how do you question the guy's football instincts on these plays? smh At this point people questioning his "football instincts" are just trying to find flaws (which is fine). It's like questioning Thomas' balance, Wirfs arm length and Wills' ability to play LT. No prospect is perfect so people get to nitpicking.
If his "football instincts" are his worst trait then sign me up. He was asked to play every position on D so that's to be expected. It is impossible for an amateur fan to judge a players "instincts" just by watching film. Teams sit down with these guys, watch tape and quiz the balls off of them and still have a hard time judging their instincts.
Not trying to stop anyone of course, just trying to keep it real and some what in check. For the record the guy you are talking with about it had a very similar critique of Barkley but called it "indecisive". So take it with a grain of salt.
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 6, 2020 10:57:19 GMT -5
I said this before he reminds me of Brad Van Pelt came out of Mich as a Safety and played LBers for us and could play all the spots. Blasphemy!!!!
He did NOT play for U of M.(boo...)
He played for Sparty!!!!
meh, same diff...
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Post by GameTime on Apr 6, 2020 11:02:10 GMT -5
Simmons is a great college payer and will probably do very well in the NFL
To me the OTs to take are Thomas or Wills at 4 and if you can trade back a few spots still pick up Becton or Wirfs. I actually think Becton is going have issues in the NFL.
Okudah is a top talent as well.
The way I see there is NO set way to run a draft. You have a few factors that come into play. So in different rounds you make use BPA, Need(if they are rated pretty high), depth, etc.
Bottom line whether its Simmons, Okudah, or a Top OT they are ALL NEED AND BPAs to one degree or another. For me they need an OT more than they need Simmons regardless if he s rated higher or not. If they stick at #4 I would take Thomas or Wills.
I left Young out because I think he will be gone.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 6, 2020 11:09:59 GMT -5
Blasphemy!!!!
He did NOT play for U of M.(boo...)
He played for Sparty!!!!
meh, same diff... Oh boy
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Post by jb456 on Apr 6, 2020 12:52:41 GMT -5
I wouldn't be upset if the Giants drafted Simmons but I am in the OT camp. I hope they are able to draft Wills or Thomas, preferably Wills. Wills is an instant upgrade on the Oline right now and can play either LT or RT.
I like Thomas but I don't understand why more people aren't in the Wills camp. Just watch his game. He is super athletic (5.05 40, lol), his feet are ridiculous, he is very strong and pancakes people, great hands and he is 20 freaking years old.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 13:44:47 GMT -5
These were the two plays I was talking about … how do you question the guy's football instincts on these plays? smh You can't...not on those plays. On the pick, even if Justin threw that ball deeper, Simmons was so deep in coverage, that became an easy angle to at least make the tackle...that was exactly the type of play a DC salivates over watching tape...you can't teach that type of range. Watching that game live, I remember being awe struck at it...Simmons came from nowhere like a blur. Simmons, Lawrence and Etienne (best name for a running back ever) were the reason they even made it to the championship game when it was all said and done...Trevor willed that vanilla offense into the championship game vs IMHO, the best college football team I've ever watched for a year, and a predictable loss vs that machine. IMHO, Simmons could be taken over even Chase Young, whom I see a lot of motor issues lately as I'm looking at all the edge prospects...even Okudah can lay claim as defensive player 1 over Young, and Simmons. That all said regarding Simmons, we'll all be talking about Trevor Lawrence this time next year if we don't get Jones protected this year....
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Post by GameTime on Apr 6, 2020 13:48:45 GMT -5
I wouldn't be upset if the Giants drafted Simmons but I am in the OT camp. I hope they are able to draft Wills or Thomas, preferably Wills. Wills is an instant upgrade on the Oline right now and can play either LT or RT. I like Thomas but I don't understand why more people aren't in the Wills camp. Just watch his game. He is super athletic (5.05 40, lol), his feet are ridiculous, he is very strong and pancakes people, great hands and he is 20 freaking years old. I went back and forth. I liked Wills as the top choice right form the start. Then I started gravitating towards Thomas after reading etc. I do like the that Wills has the great footwork. After seeing too many Olinemen who cant get out of their won way it is a very good facet of his game. Becton is may least favorite of the 4. He is big and athletic. OK but can he play in the NFL at a high level for years to come? His size may be an issue for that and he is kind of raw and wont start day one most likely. Good draft overall for OL in the first few rounds. As far as Simmons he will be a good to great NFL player most likely but I feel we need a top level OT more than a "Simmons".
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Post by jb456 on Apr 6, 2020 14:04:38 GMT -5
I wouldn't be upset if the Giants drafted Simmons but I am in the OT camp. I hope they are able to draft Wills or Thomas, preferably Wills. Wills is an instant upgrade on the Oline right now and can play either LT or RT. I like Thomas but I don't understand why more people aren't in the Wills camp. Just watch his game. He is super athletic (5.05 40, lol), his feet are ridiculous, he is very strong and pancakes people, great hands and he is 20 freaking years old. I went back and forth. I liked Wills as the top choice right form the start. Then I started gravitating towards Thomas after reading etc. I do like the that Wills has the great footwork. After seeing too many Olinemen who cant get out of their won way it is a very good facet of his game. Becton is may least favorite of the 4. He is big and athletic. OK but can he play in the NFL at a high level for years to come? His size may be an issue for that and he is kind of raw and wont start day one most likely. Good draft overall for OL in the first few rounds. As far as Simmons he will be a good to great NFL player most likely but I feel we need a top level OT more than a "Simmons". I 100% agree about Becton. IMO, he is a major Boom or Bust player. I just don't see how you can roll the dice on a player like that at 4. Also, there may be some evidence that the Giants will target Wills. They already let Remmers go and Wills was a RT in college and dominated at that position. It would make sense if they drafted Wills, start him at RT with Nate Solder playing LT in 2020, then cut Solder in 2021 and slide Wills into LT. I know that the Giants signed Cameron Fleming but he was one of the worst rated tackles in 2019. I really hope that they see Fleming as a depth signing...
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Post by GameTime on Apr 6, 2020 14:09:35 GMT -5
I went back and forth. I liked Wills as the top choice right form the start. Then I started gravitating towards Thomas after reading etc. I do like the that Wills has the great footwork. After seeing too many Olinemen who cant get out of their won way it is a very good facet of his game. Becton is may least favorite of the 4. He is big and athletic. OK but can he play in the NFL at a high level for years to come? His size may be an issue for that and he is kind of raw and wont start day one most likely. Good draft overall for OL in the first few rounds. As far as Simmons he will be a good to great NFL player most likely but I feel we need a top level OT more than a "Simmons". I 100% agree about Becton. IMO, he is a major Boom or Bust player. I just don't see how you can roll the dice on a player like that at 4. Also, there may be some evidence that the Giants will target Wills. They already let Remmers go and Wills was a RT in college and dominated at that position. It would make sense if they drafted Wills, start him at RT with Nate Solder playing LT in 2020, then cut Solder in 2021 and slide Wills into LT. I know that the Giants signed Cameron Fleming but he was one of the worst rated tackles in 2019. I really hope that they see Fleming as a depth signing... for me they are looking to draft to get their next long time LT. Flemming is depth.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 6, 2020 14:14:23 GMT -5
I went back and forth. I liked Wills as the top choice right form the start. Then I started gravitating towards Thomas after reading etc. I do like the that Wills has the great footwork. After seeing too many Olinemen who cant get out of their won way it is a very good facet of his game. Becton is may least favorite of the 4. He is big and athletic. OK but can he play in the NFL at a high level for years to come? His size may be an issue for that and he is kind of raw and wont start day one most likely. Good draft overall for OL in the first few rounds. As far as Simmons he will be a good to great NFL player most likely but I feel we need a top level OT more than a "Simmons". I 100% agree about Becton. IMO, he is a major Boom or Bust player. I just don't see how you can roll the dice on a player like that at 4. Also, there may be some evidence that the Giants will target Wills. They already let Remmers go and Wills was a RT in college and dominated at that position. It would make sense if they drafted Wills, start him at RT with Nate Solder playing LT in 2020, then cut Solder in 2021 and slide Wills into LT. I know that the Giants signed Cameron Fleming but he was one of the worst rated tackles in 2019. I really hope that they see Fleming as a depth signing... A lot of smoke combine time about Wirfs.... who i had below Thomas as 1 a.... Wills worked his way to being 1 C and Becton is number 4 but I think has a higher floor than many fear only because he has good enough footwork and has good hand placement to at least be serviceable as a rookie and can be anywhere from an above average (which in this day and age gets you 15 million a year even at RT)to insane... My gut tells me it's either Wirfs or Wills I don't see enough warts to warrant Thomas falling....wondering if it's just the bedroom scouts ....but if he falls some team in the 12-15 range will get a gift from the Gods for their o line. And if they are thinking Flemming is good enough this year and as some want to do take mid round Hope's and prayers picks...... Yeah we have seen this story end badly before
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Post by jb456 on Apr 6, 2020 14:38:39 GMT -5
I 100% agree about Becton. IMO, he is a major Boom or Bust player. I just don't see how you can roll the dice on a player like that at 4. Also, there may be some evidence that the Giants will target Wills. They already let Remmers go and Wills was a RT in college and dominated at that position. It would make sense if they drafted Wills, start him at RT with Nate Solder playing LT in 2020, then cut Solder in 2021 and slide Wills into LT. I know that the Giants signed Cameron Fleming but he was one of the worst rated tackles in 2019. I really hope that they see Fleming as a depth signing... A lot of smoke combine time about Wirfs.... who i had below Thomas as 1 a.... Wills worked his way to being 1 C and Becton is number 4 but I think has a higher floor than many fear only because he has good enough footwork and has good hand placement to at least be serviceable as a rookie and can be anywhere from an above average (which in this day and age gets you 15 million a year even at RT)to insane... My gut tells me it's either Wirfs or Wills I don't see enough warts to warrant Thomas falling....wondering if it's just the bedroom scouts ....but if he falls some team in the 12-15 range will get a gift from the Gods for their o line. And if they are thinking Flemming is good enough this year and as some want to do take mid round Hope's and prayers picks...... Yeah we have seen this story end badly beforeI just don't see any scenario where they afford to not take one of these top tackles. They need 2 tackles and a center but will probable only draft 1 tackle and a center. Fleming can be argued as a downgrade over Remmers. Solder has been below average to bad. Halapio was bad and might not ever fully recover from injuries. As of right now, the 2020 Oline is noticeably WORSE than the 2019 Oline. In fact, the Oline is so bad right now that the Giants might even be forced to pass on Chase Young if by some miracle he falls. <--------------- I know how ridiculous this sounds because I would love the Giants to draft Young.....
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 6, 2020 14:50:51 GMT -5
A lot of smoke combine time about Wirfs.... who i had below Thomas as 1 a.... Wills worked his way to being 1 C and Becton is number 4 but I think has a higher floor than many fear only because he has good enough footwork and has good hand placement to at least be serviceable as a rookie and can be anywhere from an above average (which in this day and age gets you 15 million a year even at RT)to insane... My gut tells me it's either Wirfs or Wills I don't see enough warts to warrant Thomas falling....wondering if it's just the bedroom scouts ....but if he falls some team in the 12-15 range will get a gift from the Gods for their o line. And if they are thinking Flemming is good enough this year and as some want to do take mid round Hope's and prayers picks...... Yeah we have seen this story end badly beforeI just don't see any scenario where they afford to not take one of these top tackles. They need 2 tackles and a center but will probable only draft 1 tackle and a center. Fleming can be argued as a downgrade over Remmers. Solder has been below average to bad. Halapio was bad and might not ever fully recover from injuries. As of right now, the 2020 Oline is noticeably WORSE than the 2019 Oline. In fact, the Oline is so bad right now that the Giants might even be forced to pass on Chase Young if by some miracle he falls. <--------------- I know how ridiculous this sounds because I would love the Giants to draft Young..... Young Unfortunately he is a no brainer where he legit makes the defense that much better by himself... And you have to go drastic for plan B.... which is trade back into the first and target Jones or Jackson,I'd even mortgage a 2021 2nd round pick .... Then hope and pray one of the starting Cs make it to 99 But other than that Passing on one of these tackles would be catastrophic and inexcusable
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 6, 2020 17:40:06 GMT -5
Are you sure because I'm not sure how a tweener could ever have success in the NFL. LMAO.
LOL........yes I''m sure. That was sarcasm of course, excellent write up though. Man we had some good LBs once upon a time.
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 6, 2020 17:59:09 GMT -5
Someone throw some water on aris. He’s talking about Simmons again.
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