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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 13:37:51 GMT -5
Only 20, has been improving each year...top high school recruit...would grow with Jones together....a young center for the young franchise QB...
Wills Ruiz
Daniel Jones would approve
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2020 13:48:47 GMT -5
Only 20, has been improving each year...top high school recruit...would grow with Jones together....a young center for the young franchise QB... Wills Ruiz Daniel Jones would approve But But WhAt AbOuT tHe DeFeNsE?We NeEd DeFeNse FiRsT.TeH oFfEnSe Is GoOd EnOuGh.ThE lInE cAn WaIt TiLl DaY tHrEe AnD nExT yEaR
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 5, 2020 16:59:05 GMT -5
We could get a good RT in rd 2 I would think. Possibly that Austin Jackson but I think he goes late 1st rd as well. but maybe that kid Jones will be there. But these fab 4 OT's have a tremendous chance to be real quality players and leaders on the OL. Now I liked mikecherry idea of the LT next year. I think Solder is going to have a better year than last year as is the whole OL.
Now with Thomas I understand he has already played LT and could slide over next year. From what I've read Wills is able to slide to the left side as well. So either of them that would be a plus in picking either one of them. Would hate to miss one of these fab 4 guys though. But I understand drafting Simmons.
I just don't know how you'l manage 2 LT's. it's not a bad problem, I just don't see any realistic way except Solder back at LT. Maybe we get him the extra help that Shurmur consistently failed to do, leaving him 1-1 against some of the top edge rushers. This all based on how we feel about Simmons. I will be happy either way. I'm just pointing out that passing the fab 4 doesn't equate to franchise doom. Apparently both Thomas and Wills have played RT. Wills plays the right side in Bama which is Tua's blind side. I would assume they switch over to the left whenever Solder is gone, but in the meantime they play the right side. I also wouldn't expect any OT to play the left side this year.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2020 17:06:39 GMT -5
I just don't know how you'l manage 2 LT's. it's not a bad problem, I just don't see any realistic way except Solder back at LT. Maybe we get him the extra help that Shurmur consistently failed to do, leaving him 1-1 against some of the top edge rushers. This all based on how we feel about Simmons. I will be happy either way. I'm just pointing out that passing the fab 4 doesn't equate to franchise doom. Apparently both Thomas and Wills have played RT. Wills plays the right side in Bama which is Tua's blind side. I would assume they switch over to the left whenever Solder is gone, but in the meantime they play the right side. I also wouldn't expect any OT to play the left side this year. That's usually how it goes Flowers was rushed over to LT because Beatty ripped his pec 2 days after he was drafted... Tyron Smith was actually a RT at USC then moved to LT in 2012... Unless you are strong one sided part of your body(apparently Lane Johnson prefers RT because he is extremely right handed )you can switch...
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Post by stroswift10nyg on Apr 6, 2020 13:47:51 GMT -5
I mean the defense was ranked dead last last year. But hey they shouldn't go defense first.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 6, 2020 13:54:20 GMT -5
I mean the defense was ranked dead last last year. But hey they shouldn't go defense first. the Giants org know they need help on D and on O. They cant go wrong with the first pick whether its Simmons or the one of the top OT choices. The fans may be divided on whats best but either way they get a potentially and most likely a great NFL player. Actually I'll be annoyed if the draft Becton. Not a huge fan like many are. I think the kid needs too much work to contribute right away.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 6, 2020 14:30:07 GMT -5
I mean the defense was ranked dead last last year. But hey they shouldn't go defense first. the Giants org know they need help on D and on O. They cant go wrong with the first pick whether its Simmons or the one of the top OT choices. The fans may be divided on whats best but either way they get a potentially and most likely a great NFL player. Actually I'll be annoyed if the draft Becton. Not a huge fan like many are. I think the kid needs too much work to contribute right away. My issue with this "BuT tUh DeFeNsE.........." argument for ignoring the o line.... It's the same instant gratification crowd (some..some just despise the Giants having a high powered offense ....)that isnt seeing clearly and long term First off they weren't ranked dead last 2nd..out of those 28 points a game given up,how many were direct result of our bad o line causing a rookie qb still trying to figure out game speed getting hit and fumbling,whether it was a fumble 6 or a recovery in scoring range... I'd say you can take an average of 4 to 5 points a game off their average on this alone... 2.Rookies and a lot of youth in the secondary and an inept DC that had no clue how to gameplan around them (how many times did we see a 3ed an 8 converted because our corners were lined up 8 yards off the ball,but according to some all our corners are busts and have to be replaced in the draft) Better coaching and player usage,young players improving naturally will improve the defense.. 3.Ogaltree has been replaced with someone who tackles much better and is more fundamentally sound,and Bradbury is an improvement over Jenkins just on a consistancy play in play out way... The defense is not as dire as some make it out to be... And Instant gratification..take Simmons and someone else on defense with 2 of the first 3 picks and if we are lucky we get a starting C(the offense isnt important..get the tackle next year)..kicking the can down another year We are not promised a chance to get a legit day one starting tackle next year in the draft....and now we are faced with....an aging Soldier on a bad deal with no hope on the roster to replace him...and...... and..... Meanwhile.we take the toy and we get maybe an overall 2 game improvement because the defense marginally imprives with Simmons being boom or bust the entire year While Jones stagnates or even worse regresses because dick was done with the tackles and he is getting hit on every play and still coughing it up at an alarming rate and the game doesn't slow down because he now is starting to get the jitters.. Just a major reality if some get their wish Then what Those same people will be bitching about Jones being a bust and passing on Edge Josh Allen...and
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 6, 2020 14:34:03 GMT -5
the Giants org know they need help on D and on O. They cant go wrong with the first pick whether its Simmons or the one of the top OT choices. The fans may be divided on whats best but either way they get a potentially and most likely a great NFL player. Actually I'll be annoyed if the draft Becton. Not a huge fan like many are. I think the kid needs too much work to contribute right away. My issue with this "BuT tUh DeFeNsE.........." argument for ignoring the o line.... It's the same instant gratification crowd (some..some just despise the Giants having a high powered offense ....)that isnt seeing clearly and long term First off they weren't ranked dead last 2nd..out of those 28 points a game given up,how many were direct result of our bad o line causing a rookie qb still trying to figure out game speed getting hit and fumbling,whether it was a fumble 6 or a recovery in scoring range... I'd say you can take an average of 4 to 5 points a game off their average on this alone... 2.Rookies and a lot of youth in the secondary and an inept DC that had no clue how to gameplan around them (how many times did we see a 3ed an 8 converted because our corners were lined up 8 yards off the ball,but according to some all our corners are busts and have to be replaced in the draft) Better coaching and player usage,young players improving naturally will improve the defense.. 3.Ogaltree has been replaced with someone who tackles much better and is more fundamentally sound,and Bradbury is an improvement over Jenkins just on a consistancy play in play out way... The defense is not as dire as some make it out to be... And Instant gratification..take Simmons and someone else on defense with 2 of the first 3 picks and if we are lucky we get a starting C(the offense isnt important..get the tackle next year)..kicking the can down another year We are not promised a chance to get a legit day one starting tackle next year in the draft....and now we are faced with....an aging Soldier on a bad deal with no hope on the roster to replace him...and...... and..... Meanwhile.we take the toy and we get maybe an overall 2 game improvement because the defense marginally imprives with Simmons being boom or bust the entire year While Jones stagnates or even worse regresses because dick was done with the tackles and he is getting hit on every play and still coughing it up at an alarming rate and the game doesn't slow down because he now is starting to get the jitters.. Just a major reality if some get their wish Then what Those same people will be bitching about Jones being a bust and passing on Edge Josh Allen...and I've been waiting 8 years for some of that instant gratification.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 6, 2020 14:47:16 GMT -5
My issue with this "BuT tUh DeFeNsE.........." argument for ignoring the o line.... It's the same instant gratification crowd (some..some just despise the Giants having a high powered offense ....)that isnt seeing clearly and long term First off they weren't ranked dead last 2nd..out of those 28 points a game given up,how many were direct result of our bad o line causing a rookie qb still trying to figure out game speed getting hit and fumbling,whether it was a fumble 6 or a recovery in scoring range... I'd say you can take an average of 4 to 5 points a game off their average on this alone... 2.Rookies and a lot of youth in the secondary and an inept DC that had no clue how to gameplan around them (how many times did we see a 3ed an 8 converted because our corners were lined up 8 yards off the ball,but according to some all our corners are busts and have to be replaced in the draft) Better coaching and player usage,young players improving naturally will improve the defense.. 3.Ogaltree has been replaced with someone who tackles much better and is more fundamentally sound,and Bradbury is an improvement over Jenkins just on a consistancy play in play out way... The defense is not as dire as some make it out to be... And Instant gratification..take Simmons and someone else on defense with 2 of the first 3 picks and if we are lucky we get a starting C(the offense isnt important..get the tackle next year)..kicking the can down another year We are not promised a chance to get a legit day one starting tackle next year in the draft....and now we are faced with....an aging Soldier on a bad deal with no hope on the roster to replace him...and...... and..... Meanwhile.we take the toy and we get maybe an overall 2 game improvement because the defense marginally imprives with Simmons being boom or bust the entire year While Jones stagnates or even worse regresses because dick was done with the tackles and he is getting hit on every play and still coughing it up at an alarming rate and the game doesn't slow down because he now is starting to get the jitters.. Just a major reality if some get their wish Then what Those same people will be bitching about Jones being a bust and passing on Edge Josh Allen...and I've been waiting 8 years for some of that instant gratification. Yeaaaah..... If we build the line and make it easier for Jones to take the next step and a mid round dynamic weapon to go to Slayton your 10-6 prediction is a lot more likely
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 6, 2020 14:52:24 GMT -5
I've been waiting 8 years for some of that instant gratification. Yeaaaah..... If we build the line and make it easier for Jones to take the next step and a mid round dynamic weapon to go to Slayton your 10-6 prediction is a lot more likely I just don't want to hear any more nonsense about instant gratification. We have been one of the worst teams in the NFL over the last 8 years. No one is in instant gratification mode.
I'm tired of waiting. It's time to win. I'm fine with Wirfs or Thomas if they pan out as solid NFL tackles but personally I'd rather have a real playmaker on defense with the 4th pick. Plenty of rounds available to find solid O linemen.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 6, 2020 14:59:56 GMT -5
Yeaaaah..... If we build the line and make it easier for Jones to take the next step and a mid round dynamic weapon to go to Slayton your 10-6 prediction is a lot more likely I just don't want to hear any more nonsense about instant gratification. We have been one of the worst teams in the NFL over the last 8 years. No one is in instant gratification mode.
I'm tired of waiting. It's time to win. I'm fine with Wirfs or Thomas if they pan out as solid NFL tackles but personally I'd rather have a real playmaker on defense with the 4th pick. Plenty of rounds available to find solid O linemen.
You can't assume you will find a solid tackle if you bypass a legit good day one tackle for a non premium position risk. Tackles are unicorns...it will be picked bare by 36.... yeah C will be best value But we are now looking at pick 99 to find a day one starter that now has the ceiling of "he could eventually be a decent starter" to challange a career backup at RT And now have to in all likelihood have to deal with Chase Young twice a year and no hope to contain him this year So what will be your reasoning if Jones doesn't progress past last year or even regresses from too many hits ? Because that is what we would be looking at
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Post by GameTime on Apr 6, 2020 17:52:20 GMT -5
the Giants org know they need help on D and on O. They cant go wrong with the first pick whether its Simmons or the one of the top OT choices. The fans may be divided on whats best but either way they get a potentially and most likely a great NFL player. Actually I'll be annoyed if the draft Becton. Not a huge fan like many are. I think the kid needs too much work to contribute right away. My issue with this "BuT tUh DeFeNsE.........." argument for ignoring the o line.... It's the same instant gratification crowd (some..some just despise the Giants having a high powered offense ....)that isnt seeing clearly and long term First off they weren't ranked dead last 2nd..out of those 28 points a game given up,how many were direct result of our bad o line causing a rookie qb still trying to figure out game speed getting hit and fumbling,whether it was a fumble 6 or a recovery in scoring range... I'd say you can take an average of 4 to 5 points a game off their average on this alone... 2.Rookies and a lot of youth in the secondary and an inept DC that had no clue how to gameplan around them (how many times did we see a 3ed an 8 converted because our corners were lined up 8 yards off the ball,but according to some all our corners are busts and have to be replaced in the draft) Better coaching and player usage,young players improving naturally will improve the defense.. 3.Ogaltree has been replaced with someone who tackles much better and is more fundamentally sound,and Bradbury is an improvement over Jenkins just on a consistancy play in play out way... The defense is not as dire as some make it out to be... And Instant gratification..take Simmons and someone else on defense with 2 of the first 3 picks and if we are lucky we get a starting C(the offense isnt important..get the tackle next year)..kicking the can down another year We are not promised a chance to get a legit day one starting tackle next year in the draft....and now we are faced with....an aging Soldier on a bad deal with no hope on the roster to replace him...and...... and..... Meanwhile.we take the toy and we get maybe an overall 2 game improvement because the defense marginally imprives with Simmons being boom or bust the entire year While Jones stagnates or even worse regresses because dick was done with the tackles and he is getting hit on every play and still coughing it up at an alarming rate and the game doesn't slow down because he now is starting to get the jitters.. Just a major reality if some get their wish Then what Those same people will be bitching about Jones being a bust and passing on Edge Josh Allen...and No one is saying “ignore” the oline. Others would like to see the defense get what they believe is an impact player. While I disagree with that I wont get all bent over it. My job here is not to convince one way is the only way.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 6, 2020 19:01:07 GMT -5
I just don't know how you'l manage 2 LT's. it's not a bad problem, I just don't see any realistic way except Solder back at LT. Maybe we get him the extra help that Shurmur consistently failed to do, leaving him 1-1 against some of the top edge rushers. This all based on how we feel about Simmons. I will be happy either way. I'm just pointing out that passing the fab 4 doesn't equate to franchise doom.That last part nailed it. People act like the only possible way to find a good OL is in the first round. If any of these OTs are as good as some people here make it seem then we will take them at 4 and won't look back.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 6, 2020 19:08:29 GMT -5
"BuT tUh DeFeNsE.........." No one is saying “ignore” the oline. Others would like to see the defense get what they believe is an impact player. While I disagree with that I wont get all bent over it. My job here is not to convince one way is the only way. When a person posts like he did you can't talk sense to them. I have not seen a single poster suggesting we ignore the OL. Our offense has been middle of the league the last two seasons, our D has been one of the worst. We will not win if we don't fix the D. We also need to improve the OL.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 6, 2020 19:10:05 GMT -5
I'd rather have a real playmaker on defense with the 4th pick. Plenty of rounds available to find solid O linemen. Remember for the last decade how we would all clamor for a playmaking LB in the 1st and every year we would keep the Carl Banks draft clock rolling? Suddenly some people think you are a fool for wanting a LB in the first.
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Post by jb456 on Apr 6, 2020 22:28:05 GMT -5
No one is saying “ignore” the oline. Others would like to see the defense get what they believe is an impact player. While I disagree with that I wont get all bent over it. My job here is not to convince one way is the only way. When a person posts like he did you can't talk sense to them. I have not seen a single poster suggesting we ignore the OL. Our offense has been middle of the league the last two seasons, our D has been one of the worst. We will not win if we don't fix the D. We also need to improve the OL. I wouldn't get mad at the Simmons pick but the Giants Oline will be worse in 2020 than 2019. Solder will be another year older and he isn't good. Flemming is even worse than Remmers and not a starting calibre tackle. Halapio wasn't good last year and now recovering from injury. It's a complete shit show and a recipe for disaster for both Daniel Jones and Barkley. Wills and Ruiz would be instant upgrades and Wills game is refined and they are both 20 years old.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 22:40:02 GMT -5
When a person posts like he did you can't talk sense to them. I have not seen a single poster suggesting we ignore the OL. Our offense has been middle of the league the last two seasons, our D has been one of the worst. We will not win if we don't fix the D. We also need to improve the OL. I wouldn't get mad at the Simmons pick but the Giants Oline will be worse in 2020 than 2019. Solder will be another year older and he isn't good. Flemming is even worse than Remmers and not a starting calibre tackle. Halapio wasn't good last year and now recovering from injury. It's a complete shit show and a recipe for disaster for both Daniel Jones and Barkley. Wills and Ruiz would be instant upgrades and Wills game is refined and they are both 20 years old. If Detroit trades out and Young goes 2, if I had a choice of " having" to take a defensive player at 4...it would not be Simmons. Jeff Okudah would be my choice...better prospect, higher positional value...BPA He's a phenom ...mix of Revis and Peterson, or a humble grounded Jalen Ramsey, better...any top receiver in the league will be taken out of a game...erased. His tape is a clinic ....he does not get beat I'm still going OT though....
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 6, 2020 23:23:28 GMT -5
I wouldn't get mad at the Simmons pick but the Giants Oline will be worse in 2020 than 2019. Solder will be another year older and he isn't good. Flemming is even worse than Remmers and not a starting calibre tackle. Halapio wasn't good last year and now recovering from injury. It's a complete shit show and a recipe for disaster for both Daniel Jones and Barkley. Wills and Ruiz would be instant upgrades and Wills game is refined and they are both 20 years old. If Detroit trades out and Young goes 2, if I had a choice of " having" to take a defensive player at 4...it would not be Simmons. Jeff Okudah would be my choice...better prospect, higher positional value...BPA He's a phenom ...mix of Revis and Peterson, or a humble grounded Jalen Ramsey, better...any top receiver in the league will be taken out of a game...erased. His tape is a clinic ....he does not get beat I'm still going OT though.... My point exactly... And he instantly makes the secondary much better in that Bradbury would be the slot guy (which he would have no problem doing)and Baker if the last 6 games last year were a preview.... Makes the entire defense better(which was already improved)..
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 7, 2020 5:25:38 GMT -5
I wouldn't get mad at the Simmons pick but the Giants Oline will be worse in 2020 than 2019. Solder will be another year older and he isn't good. Flemming is even worse than Remmers and not a starting calibre tackle. Halapio wasn't good last year and now recovering from injury. It's a complete shit show and a recipe for disaster for both Daniel Jones and Barkley. Wills and Ruiz would be instant upgrades and Wills game is refined and they are both 20 years old. That's all fine but it's a complete guess. It ignores the fact we have a new OC, HC and most important OL coach. It ignores the fact Solder was dealing with a child going through chemo. And it assumes that Flemming isn't a starting caliber OT which judging from his teams performance when he started is false, also the fact that he worked for our staff at multiple locations and they think he is good enough to pay starter money to. Center scares the crap out of me honestly. It also ignores the fact DG has found 4 starting OL outside the first round including a Pro Bowler and an All Pro.
We could be worse, but it's not a guarantee. It's certainly not a reason to ignore our draft board and take a player rated much lower (if an OT isn't rated lower then we will/should take him). I wouldn't be mad at an OT pick at 4, I just am not convinced that it's the ONLY option.
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 7, 2020 6:55:25 GMT -5
I wouldn't get mad at the Simmons pick but the Giants Oline will be worse in 2020 than 2019. Solder will be another year older and he isn't good. Flemming is even worse than Remmers and not a starting calibre tackle. Halapio wasn't good last year and now recovering from injury. It's a complete shit show and a recipe for disaster for both Daniel Jones and Barkley. Wills and Ruiz would be instant upgrades and Wills game is refined and they are both 20 years old. That's all fine but it's a complete guess. It ignores the fact we have a new OC, HC and most important OL coach. It ignores the fact Solder was dealing with a child going through chemo. And it assumes that Flemming isn't a starting caliber OT which judging from his teams performance when he started is false, also the fact that he worked for our staff at multiple locations and they think he is good enough to pay starter money to. Center scares the crap out of me honestly. It also ignores the fact DG has found 4 starting OL outside the first round including a Pro Bowler and an All Pro.
We could be worse, but it's not a guarantee. It's certainly not a reason to ignore our draft board and take a player rated much lower (if an OT isn't rated lower then we will/should take him). I wouldn't be mad at an OT pick at 4, I just am not convinced that it's the ONLY option.
The coaching staff under Shurms was so bad, its hard to say which unit will improve the most, just by virtue of better coaching (it really couldn't get worst than what we've been seeing). Personally, I think the defensive will be much better off under the new staff. I think the lack of communication gets fixed. that being said, many times last year, the O Lines problems seeme to stem from their approach to it all, so we could see tremendous improvement just with the switch to Garrett/Comlumbo.
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Post by jb456 on Apr 7, 2020 7:14:49 GMT -5
I wouldn't get mad at the Simmons pick but the Giants Oline will be worse in 2020 than 2019. Solder will be another year older and he isn't good. Flemming is even worse than Remmers and not a starting calibre tackle. Halapio wasn't good last year and now recovering from injury. It's a complete shit show and a recipe for disaster for both Daniel Jones and Barkley. Wills and Ruiz would be instant upgrades and Wills game is refined and they are both 20 years old. That's all fine but it's a complete guess. It ignores the fact we have a new OC, HC and most important OL coach. It ignores the fact Solder was dealing with a child going through chemo. And it assumes that Flemming isn't a starting caliber OT which judging from his teams performance when he started is false, also the fact that he worked for our staff at multiple locations and they think he is good enough to pay starter money to. Center scares the crap out of me honestly. It also ignores the fact DG has found 4 starting OL outside the first round including a Pro Bowler and an All Pro.
We could be worse, but it's not a guarantee. It's certainly not a reason to ignore our draft board and take a player rated much lower (if an OT isn't rated lower then we will/should take him). I wouldn't be mad at an OT pick at 4, I just am not convinced that it's the ONLY option.
I was all for signing Solder in 2018, even after his first season, which he underperformed. Now, after his 2019 horror show, I have no faith in him. Maybe the coaches can get something out of him but he will be yet another year older. Im not a huge PFF guy but Flemming was rated even worse than Remmers in 2019 and even in the highlights he was getting blown back. Center is a freaking horror show. We are all speculating, let's see what happens...
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Post by snyder55 on Apr 7, 2020 8:26:54 GMT -5
right now I think we could hang a chart with our roster on it on the wall and throw a dart at it and it would hit a position of need..except maybe at QB and RB...
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Post by snyder55 on Apr 7, 2020 8:30:52 GMT -5
I just don't know how you'l manage 2 LT's. it's not a bad problem, I just don't see any realistic way except Solder back at LT. Maybe we get him the extra help that Shurmur consistently failed to do, leaving him 1-1 against some of the top edge rushers. This all based on how we feel about Simmons. I will be happy either way. I'm just pointing out that passing the fab 4 doesn't equate to franchise doom.That last part nailed it. People act like the only possible way to find a good OL is in the first round. If any of these OTs are as good as some people here make it seem then we will take them at 4 and won't look back. in my opinion we should take an O lineman after the first round and then let the coaches earn their money, isn't that why they are here....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2020 10:51:34 GMT -5
That last part nailed it. People act like the only possible way to find a good OL is in the first round. If any of these OTs are as good as some people here make it seem then we will take them at 4 and won't look back. in my opinion we should take an O lineman after the first round and then let the coaches earn their money, isn't that why they are here.... in my opinion we should take a linebacker after the first round and then let the coaches earn their money, isn't that why they are here....
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 7, 2020 11:49:58 GMT -5
in my opinion we should take an O lineman after the first round and then let the coaches earn their money, isn't that why they are here.... in my opinion we should take a linebacker after the first round and then let the coaches earn their money, isn't that why they are here.... #facts Because people who think like this get what they want at ..short term gratification and then act surprised when we don't select a tackle till 99 or 111 that have the words "possible good starter in a few years" because all the even 2nd tier (more high risk)tackles get picked clean and the best value is something else Then they see Young and the rest of the NFC east pass rushers molest Jones badly,mock him,the team and the fans in tweets,while the toy they all wanted at 4 doesn't have a defined role and looks lost because the staff couldn't have a hands on with him because no OTAs... It irritates me how short sighted the groupies are or those who want instant gratification on defense when its improved already when they dont see the overall big picture
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2020 14:37:07 GMT -5
I wouldn't get mad at the Simmons pick but the Giants Oline will be worse in 2020 than 2019. Solder will be another year older and he isn't good. Flemming is even worse than Remmers and not a starting calibre tackle. Halapio wasn't good last year and now recovering from injury. It's a complete shit show and a recipe for disaster for both Daniel Jones and Barkley. Wills and Ruiz would be instant upgrades and Wills game is refined and they are both 20 years old. That's all fine but it's a complete guess. It ignores the fact we have a new OC, HC and most important OL coach. It ignores the fact Solder was dealing with a child going through chemo. And it assumes that Flemming isn't a starting caliber OT which judging from his teams performance when he started is false, also the fact that he worked for our staff at multiple locations and they think he is good enough to pay starter money to. Center scares the crap out of me honestly. It also ignores the fact DG has found 4 starting OL outside the first round including a Pro Bowler and an All Pro.
We could be worse, but it's not a guarantee. It's certainly not a reason to ignore our draft board and take a player rated much lower (if an OT isn't rated lower then we will/should take him). I wouldn't be mad at an OT pick at 4, I just am not convinced that it's the ONLY option.
I'll take your complete guess, and conjecture from the cherry picked facts...and offer the entire scenario Marc Columbo is the OL coach. Your post plays heavy into him ... hey, he might even be able to turn Solder, from most pressures in the NFL, back into his below average self again. Should be fun watching Nate try and handle Chase Young twice a year. BTW, Marc came from the Cowboys .... with his head coach who is now our OC, and was a candidate for HC himself...a head coach who was seen clapping next to a far too white toothed for so many wrinkles Jerry Jones and that horror grin... after each of these picks....creating the best OL in the NFL with.. .top round picks. Tyron Smith - 1st round pick Travis Frederick - 1st round pick Zack Martin - 1st round pick Connor Williams -2nd round pick Connor McGovern - 2nd round pick Where are these guys coaching now? Dave Gettleman as a Panther GM?... Dave Gettleman as a NY Giant GM? ....
Yeah, thought so....
I'll assume the first order of business for the NY Giants new coaching staff, having Jones and Barkley to support, is to invest top picks into the OL, and not allow Gettleman to find some "gems" in the mid rounds...Jones, Barkley and Gettleman don't have much time left for another round of "we can find OL gems in the mid rounds" kick the can excuse anymore.
Like a Led Zeppelin song...the Gettleman found mid round gems in Carolina has been posted out...I've heard that since he got here, and?.....
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 7, 2020 16:34:10 GMT -5
The coaching staff under Shurms was so bad, its hard to say which unit will improve the most, just by virtue of better coaching (it really couldn't get worst than what we've been seeing). Personally, I think the defensive will be much better off under the new staff. I think the lack of communication gets fixed. that being said, many times last year, the O Lines problems seeme to stem from their approach to it all, so we could see tremendous improvement just with the switch to Garrett/Comlumbo. Well considering our DC had a worse D than us last year (I know shocking lol) I would say the OL should improve more from coaching than the D. I do think both will improve though. We need to fix the D and fix the OL. No doubt.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 7, 2020 16:37:39 GMT -5
I was all for signing Solder in 2018, even after his first season, which he underperformed. Now, after his 2019 horror show, I have no faith in him. Maybe the coaches can get something out of him but he will be yet another year older. Im not a huge PFF guy but Flemming was rated even worse than Remmers in 2019 and even in the highlights he was getting blown back. Center is a freaking horror show. We are all speculating, let's see what happens... Of course, it's all speculation. I am in no way saying these guys are studs that don't need to be replaced but with that horror show of an OL, a rookie QB, no Odell, an injured Barkley we still were 18th in scoring. Mean while our D was 30th.
Center scares me more than OT honestly. I'll roll with Fleming if we have too but at this point our long snapper might have to play Center.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2020 16:40:43 GMT -5
That's all fine but it's a complete guess. It ignores the fact we have a new OC, HC and most important OL coach. It ignores the fact Solder was dealing with a child going through chemo. And it assumes that Flemming isn't a starting caliber OT which judging from his teams performance when he started is false, also the fact that he worked for our staff at multiple locations and they think he is good enough to pay starter money to. Center scares the crap out of me honestly. It also ignores the fact DG has found 4 starting OL outside the first round including a Pro Bowler and an All Pro.
We could be worse, but it's not a guarantee. It's certainly not a reason to ignore our draft board and take a player rated much lower (if an OT isn't rated lower then we will/should take him). I wouldn't be mad at an OT pick at 4, I just am not convinced that it's the ONLY option.
I'll take your complete guess, and conjecture from the cherry picked facts...and offer the entire scenario Marc Columbo is the OL coach. Your post plays heavy into him ... hey, he might even be able to turn Solder, from most pressures in the NFL, back into his below average self again. Should be fun watching Nate try and handle Chase Young twice a year. BTW, Marc came from the Cowboys .... with his head coach who is now our OC, and was a candidate for HC himself...a head coach who was seen clapping next to a far too white toothed for so many wrinkles Jerry Jones and that horror grin... after each of these picks....creating the best OL in the NFL with.. .top round picks. Tyron Smith - 1st round pick Travis Frederick - 1st round pick Zack Martin - 1st round pick Connor Williams -2nd round pick Connor McGovern - 2nd round pick Where are these guys coaching now? Dave Gettleman as a Panther GM?... Dave Gettleman as a NY Giant GM? ....
Yeah, thought so....
I'll assume the first order of business for the NY Giants new coaching staff, having Jones and Barkley to support, is to invest top picks into the OL, and not allow Gettleman to find some "gems" in the mid rounds...Jones, Barkley and Gettleman don't have much time left for another round of "we can find OL gems in the mid rounds" kick the can excuse anymore.
Like a Led Zeppelin song...the Gettleman found mid round gems in Carolina has been posted out...I've heard that since he got here, and?.....
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