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Post by IrishMike on Apr 13, 2020 15:12:58 GMT -5
Just heard Geoff Schwartz on the Will Cane show giving his take on this years class of OTs. Interesting take for anyone that's interested.
He said in round 1 it really comes down to what a team needs. If you need a RT then Wills is the most technically sound of the batch, ready to go right now. But teams like the Browns might not need a RT, so in that case Thomas is the LT most ready to go start from day 1. Becton and Wirfs are the more physically gifted of the group but thinks Becton might take half a season to really get his legs under him. Wirfs is the guy you take if you need an OG. He thinks he has All Pro potential at OG similar to Zach Martin.
Giving his take on the 2nd tier of guys, he said that they are a step down but not that far off. The issue with OTs in the NFL now is that teams don't know how to train them to play anymore and since they need so much time in pads and padded practices are way less the play of OTs really suffer. This year will be especially bad. If you have a year to get a guy ready before plugging him in then Jones and Isaiah Wilson can be really good; he is not high on Jackson like other people are, but said that's because he thinks it will take too much time to get him ready, over a year.
I hope we get one of these 7 players on our team and I hope that our new staff can actually develop an OL unlike our previous regimes. I certainly feel better about Columbo than I did about Hal Hunter. We will see if Columbo was a product of great talent or if he helped that talent develop.
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Post by bluejayc on Apr 14, 2020 6:52:13 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more with his assessment of the Top 4.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 14, 2020 7:08:18 GMT -5
been a fan of Thomas and Wills
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 14, 2020 7:18:27 GMT -5
been a fan of Thomas and Wills I'm as well, and you can throw Wirfs into the mix. Personally, even if the Giants pick Becton, I'll be happy. I trust that they do a far more thorough job vetting the prospects than I, and look at film with far more expertise. As good of prospects that Simmons and Okudah are, I think that these 4 OTs are right at the same rating tier, and shoring up the O Line is #1 job IMHO. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 14, 2020 7:23:51 GMT -5
Just heard Geoff Schwartz on the Will Cane show giving his take on this years class of OTs. Interesting take for anyone that's interested.
He said in round 1 it really comes down to what a team needs. If you need a RT then Wills is the most technically sound of the batch, ready to go right now. But teams like the Browns might not need a RT, so in that case Thomas is the LT most ready to go start from day 1. Becton and Wirfs are the more physically gifted of the group but thinks Becton might take half a season to really get his legs under him. Wirfs is the guy you take if you need an OG. He thinks he has All Pro potential at OG similar to Zach Martin.
Giving his take on the 2nd tier of guys, he said that they are a step down but not that far off. The issue with OTs in the NFL now is that teams don't know how to train them to play anymore and since they need so much time in pads and padded practices are way less the play of OTs really suffer. This year will be especially bad. If you have a year to get a guy ready before plugging him in then Jones and Isaiah Wilson can be really good; he is not high on Jackson like other people are, but said that's because he thinks it will take too much time to get him ready, over a year.
I hope we get one of these 7 players on our team and I hope that our new staff can actually develop an OL unlike our previous regimes. I certainly feel better about Columbo than I did about Hal Hunter. We will see if Columbo was a product of great talent or if he helped that talent develop.
Werent we just going back and forth the other day on that very subject? lol Except I think we were saying Quentin Nelson. |
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 14, 2020 9:56:06 GMT -5
Werent we just going back and forth the other day on that very subject? lol Except I think we were saying Quentin Nelson. Indeed sir. I think my stance was the Giants won't take him because we have two good OGs already. So in this case I would take one of the other guys (unless we think Wirfs will play OT). |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 14, 2020 10:23:25 GMT -5
Werent we just going back and forth the other day on that very subject? lol Except I think we were saying Quentin Nelson. Indeed sir. I think my stance was the Giants won't take him because we have two good OGs already. So in this case I would take one of the other guys (unless we think Wirfs will play OT). I think teams feel (at least scouts) that Wirfs has a much better shot at sticking to OT than his former Iowa alum in Brandon Scherff. Scherff was never projected to be a top dominant OLman like a Wirfs, Nelson or Martin, but he was projected as a very good G. Wirfs is being projected as a very good OT, but an all pro G. If he can be a very good OT and they love the versatility he can bring in case a Zeitler or Hernandez goes down that the other OLineman cant, Im good with the pick. Thomas is still my pick though. |
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 14, 2020 10:27:15 GMT -5
Indeed sir. I think my stance was the Giants won't take him because we have two good OGs already. So in this case I would take one of the other guys (unless we think Wirfs will play OT). I think teams feel (at least scouts) that Wirfs has a much better shot at sticking to OT than his former Iowa alum in Brandon Scherff. Scherff was never projected to be a top dominant OLman like a Wirfs, Nelson or Martin, but he was projected as a very good G. Wirfs is being projected as a very good OT, but an all pro G. If he can be a very good OT and they love the versatility he can bring in case a Zeitler or Hernandez goes down that the other OLineman cant, Im good with the pick. Thomas is still my pick though. I agree with everything in your post. Thomas is my pick out of the OTs too. I do think Schwartz is right though and it will depend on which team picks him. If it's us he will be given a shot at OT. If it's a team that has OTs then he will go to OG. I do think he can go to either spot, or he at least deserves a chance to. The kid can play. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 14, 2020 10:34:13 GMT -5
I think teams feel (at least scouts) that Wirfs has a much better shot at sticking to OT than his former Iowa alum in Brandon Scherff. Scherff was never projected to be a top dominant OLman like a Wirfs, Nelson or Martin, but he was projected as a very good G. Wirfs is being projected as a very good OT, but an all pro G. If he can be a very good OT and they love the versatility he can bring in case a Zeitler or Hernandez goes down that the other OLineman cant, Im good with the pick. Thomas is still my pick though. I agree with everything in your post. Thomas is my pick out of the OTs too. I do think Schwartz is right though and it will depend on which team picks him. If it's us he will be given a shot at OT. If it's a team that has OTs then he will go to OG. I do think he can go to either spot, or he at least deserves a chance to. The kid can play. IMO, my guess is he slides down to Arizona or Jacksonville. 2 teams with OL issues and young budding QBs. |
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 14, 2020 13:16:47 GMT -5
I think teams feel (at least scouts) that Wirfs has a much better shot at sticking to OT than his former Iowa alum in Brandon Scherff. Scherff was never projected to be a top dominant OLman like a Wirfs, Nelson or Martin, but he was projected as a very good G. Wirfs is being projected as a very good OT, but an all pro G. If he can be a very good OT and they love the versatility he can bring in case a Zeitler or Hernandez goes down that the other OLineman cant, Im good with the pick. Thomas is still my pick though. I agree with everything in your post. Thomas is my pick out of the OTs too. I do think Schwartz is right though and it will depend on which team picks him. If it's us he will be given a shot at OT. If it's a team that has OTs then he will go to OG. I do think he can go to either spot, or he at least deserves a chance to. The kid can play. You would be ok taking an OT at 4 to "give him a shot" at being an OT? |
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 14, 2020 15:09:04 GMT -5
Its funny people talk about how athletic and talented Wirfs and Becton are because of their freakish combine showings, but correct me if im wrong Thomas and Wills ALSO are not only very talented and athletic, but also have the technical aspects of the game covered. Not just big athletes who need much more refinement.
In any other class they would all be talking how athletic Wills and Thomas are
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 14, 2020 15:28:15 GMT -5
I agree with everything in your post. Thomas is my pick out of the OTs too. I do think Schwartz is right though and it will depend on which team picks him. If it's us he will be given a shot at OT. If it's a team that has OTs then he will go to OG. I do think he can go to either spot, or he at least deserves a chance to. The kid can play. You would be ok taking an OT at 4 to "give him a shot" at being an OT? Wirfs is not the person I would take at 4. No matter who we pick we are "giving them a shot". Just a phrase. My point is that we would not draft him to play OG, because we have 2 good ones; while another team might have 2 good OTs and he would be drafted to play OG. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 14, 2020 15:36:39 GMT -5
If we are seriously considering using Nick Gates as a C,we might as well trade back with the Jags or Raiders and get multiple 1st rounders then with the later 1st go Ruiz.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 14, 2020 16:27:20 GMT -5
If we are seriously considering using Nick Gates as a C,we might as well trade back with the Jags or Raiders and get multiple 1st rounders then with the later 1st go Ruiz. I would bet we go Center in our first 3 picks. That is the biggest need on O for this season. Bigger than OT. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 17:17:06 GMT -5
Just heard Geoff Schwartz on the Will Cane show giving his take on this years class of OTs. Interesting take for anyone that's interested.
He said in round 1 it really comes down to what a team needs. If you need a RT then Wills is the most technically sound of the batch, ready to go right now. But teams like the Browns might not need a RT, so in that case Thomas is the LT most ready to go start from day 1. Becton and Wirfs are the more physically gifted of the group but thinks Becton might take half a season to really get his legs under him. Wirfs is the guy you take if you need an OG. He thinks he has All Pro potential at OG similar to Zach Martin.
Giving his take on the 2nd tier of guys, he said that they are a step down but not that far off. The issue with OTs in the NFL now is that teams don't know how to train them to play anymore and since they need so much time in pads and padded practices are way less the play of OTs really suffer. This year will be especially bad. If you have a year to get a guy ready before plugging him in then Jones and Isaiah Wilson can be really good; he is not high on Jackson like other people are, but said that's because he thinks it will take too much time to get him ready, over a year.
I hope we get one of these 7 players on our team and I hope that our new staff can actually develop an OL unlike our previous regimes. I certainly feel better about Columbo than I did about Hal Hunter. We will see if Columbo was a product of great talent or if he helped that talent develop.
What you have to consider is this. If you feel all 4 are pretty close to the same at this point you dig deeper and try and answer the question. Which one has the highest ceiling? Who can be really good. Who can be great. Who can be lights out. Now if you feel Becton is technically a little behind Thomas but with coaching can be one of the best. You take Becton. Not an experimental player but your coaches feel extremely confident that there are small flaws, footwork or hand placement. Who can be coached to greatness. You can’t teach Size or Heart. Technique. Yes. Let’s take Becton and frustrate the hell out of DE’s for a Decade |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 17:18:28 GMT -5
If we are seriously considering using Nick Gates as a C,we might as well trade back with the Jags or Raiders and get multiple 1st rounders then with the later 1st go Ruiz. I would bet we go Center in our first 3 picks. That is the biggest need on O for this season. Bigger than OT. My dream scenario as I have said before is to trade back a couple. Get Becton, then a Linebacker and take a Center in the 2nd round. WR in 3rd |
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Post by PennState1 on Apr 15, 2020 13:10:10 GMT -5
If we are seriously considering using Nick Gates as a C,we might as well trade back with the Jags or Raiders and get multiple 1st rounders then with the later 1st go Ruiz. I would bet we go Center in our first 3 picks. That is the biggest need on O for this season. Bigger than OT. Totally agree about the importance of Center. |
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 15, 2020 15:17:42 GMT -5
If we are seriously considering using Nick Gates as a C,we might as well trade back with the Jags or Raiders and get multiple 1st rounders then with the later 1st go Ruiz. I would bet we go Center in our first 3 picks. That is the biggest need on O for this season. Bigger than OT. ...I guess i never really thought of it like that. To be fair, starting now we have Gates and Solder at OT, which IMO is better than Pulley at C. That being said I see us going OT over C in the draft only because there are no centers worthy of a 4th overall pick. I would LOVE it if we find a Center in this years draft. Whether its Ruiz, Cushenberry, Biadasz, or Harris, I just want us to find a new center |
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 15, 2020 15:22:05 GMT -5
I would bet we go Center in our first 3 picks. That is the biggest need on O for this season. Bigger than OT. ...I guess i never really thought of it like that. To be fair, starting now we have Gates and Solder at OT, which IMO is better than Pulley at C. That being said I see us going OT over C in the draft only because there are no centers worthy of a 4th overall pick. I would LOVE it if we find a Center in this years draft. Whether its Ruiz, Cushenberry, Biadasz, or Harris, I just want us to find a new center Cam Flemming will start over Gates at OT. Teams don't pay $3.5m for a guy that can't beat out their current back up for a starting job. But I agree we might go OT over C in the draft because the chips may fall that way. No way is a C going at 4 for us. Even if we go Simmons at 4 we might go OT at 36, leaving C for round 3.
Center has to get picked early though.
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Post by PennState1 on Apr 16, 2020 12:10:36 GMT -5
...I guess i never really thought of it like that. To be fair, starting now we have Gates and Solder at OT, which IMO is better than Pulley at C. That being said I see us going OT over C in the draft only because there are no centers worthy of a 4th overall pick. I would LOVE it if we find a Center in this years draft. Whether its Ruiz, Cushenberry, Biadasz, or Harris, I just want us to find a new center Cam Flemming will start over Gates at OT. Teams don't pay $3.5m for a guy that can't beat out their current back up for a starting job. But I agree we might go OT over C in the draft because the chips may fall that way. No way is a C going at 4 for us. Even if we go Simmons at 4 we might go OT at 36, leaving C for round 3.
Center has to get picked early though.
We can take Thomas at 4 and a top center with our 2nd pick |
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 16, 2020 12:53:48 GMT -5
Cam Flemming will start over Gates at OT. Teams don't pay $3.5m for a guy that can't beat out their current back up for a starting job. But I agree we might go OT over C in the draft because the chips may fall that way. No way is a C going at 4 for us. Even if we go Simmons at 4 we might go OT at 36, leaving C for round 3.
Center has to get picked early though.
We can take Thomas at 4 and a top center with our 2nd pick I'd rate this draft an A just on this alone |
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 16, 2020 14:56:46 GMT -5
We can take Thomas at 4 and a top center with our 2nd pick That is possible. I think Center will get picked early no matter who we take round 1. |
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Post by jimmieray on Apr 17, 2020 7:36:14 GMT -5
Just heard Geoff Schwartz on the Will Cane show giving his take on this years class of OTs. Interesting take for anyone that's interested.
He said in round 1 it really comes down to what a team needs. If you need a RT then Wills is the most technically sound of the batch, ready to go right now. But teams like the Browns might not need a RT, so in that case Thomas is the LT most ready to go start from day 1. Becton and Wirfs are the more physically gifted of the group but thinks Becton might take half a season to really get his legs under him. Wirfs is the guy you take if you need an OG. He thinks he has All Pro potential at OG similar to Zach Martin.
Giving his take on the 2nd tier of guys, he said that they are a step down but not that far off. The issue with OTs in the NFL now is that teams don't know how to train them to play anymore and since they need so much time in pads and padded practices are way less the play of OTs really suffer. This year will be especially bad. If you have a year to get a guy ready before plugging him in then Jones and Isaiah Wilson can be really good; he is not high on Jackson like other people are, but said that's because he thinks it will take too much time to get him ready, over a year.
I hope we get one of these 7 players on our team and I hope that our new staff can actually develop an OL unlike our previous regimes. I certainly feel better about Columbo than I did about Hal Hunter. We will see if Columbo was a product of great talent or if he helped that talent develop.
What you have to consider is this. If you feel all 4 are pretty close to the same at this point you dig deeper and try and answer the question. Which one has the highest ceiling? Who can be really good. Who can be great. Who can be lights out. Now if you feel Becton is technically a little behind Thomas but with coaching can be one of the best. You take Becton. Not an experimental player but your coaches feel extremely confident that there are small flaws, footwork or hand placement. Who can be coached to greatness. You can’t teach Size or Heart. Technique. Yes. Let’s take Becton and frustrate the hell out of DE’s for a Decade We're not expected to fly out of the gates to start this upcoming season, regardless of what lineman they draft. And Jones still needs time to work on things at his end. If another benefit of taking Becton is that he is more of a sure thing to be available later in the 1rst, and a trade back for an additional early rounder is in place - all the more reason to consider this. |
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Post by jimmieray on Apr 17, 2020 7:50:45 GMT -5
...I guess i never really thought of it like that. To be fair, starting now we have Gates and Solder at OT, which IMO is better than Pulley at C. That being said I see us going OT over C in the draft only because there are no centers worthy of a 4th overall pick. I would LOVE it if we find a Center in this years draft. Whether its Ruiz, Cushenberry, Biadasz, or Harris, I just want us to find a new center Cam Flemming will start over Gates at OT. Teams don't pay $3.5m for a guy that can't beat out their current back up for a starting job. But I agree we might go OT over C in the draft because the chips may fall that way. No way is a C going at 4 for us. Even if we go Simmons at 4 we might go OT at 36, leaving C for round 3.
Center has to get picked early though.
I feel Gates will become a fan favorite, even if never a true starter at any particular position. He did alright at OT last season, after we were shocked to hear he had no real prior experience there. Now we hear he is boning up at center, just in case. I suppose he can handle guard and even TE responsibilities, too. Seems like a smart, versatile guy for reliable depth. |
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 17, 2020 8:21:19 GMT -5
Cam Flemming will start over Gates at OT. Teams don't pay $3.5m for a guy that can't beat out their current back up for a starting job. But I agree we might go OT over C in the draft because the chips may fall that way. No way is a C going at 4 for us. Even if we go Simmons at 4 we might go OT at 36, leaving C for round 3.
Center has to get picked early though.
I feel Gates will become a fan favorite, even if never a true starter at any particular position. He did alright at OT last season, after we were shocked to hear he had no real prior experience there. Now we hear he is boning up at center, just in case. I suppose he can handle guard and even TE responsibilities, too. Seems like a smart, versatile guy for reliable depth. I do really like Gates. I don't think he will be starting at OT for us unless someone gets hurt though. He seems like a perfect 6th lineman. If he can play Center he is a guy we can plug in anywhere in a pinch, that alone has some value. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 11:23:30 GMT -5
What you have to consider is this. If you feel all 4 are pretty close to the same at this point you dig deeper and try and answer the question. Which one has the highest ceiling? Who can be really good. Who can be great. Who can be lights out. Now if you feel Becton is technically a little behind Thomas but with coaching can be one of the best. You take Becton. Not an experimental player but your coaches feel extremely confident that there are small flaws, footwork or hand placement. Who can be coached to greatness. You can’t teach Size or Heart. Technique. Yes. Let’s take Becton and frustrate the hell out of DE’s for a Decade We're not expected to fly out of the gates to start this upcoming season, regardless of what lineman they draft. And Jones still needs time to work on things at his end. If another benefit of taking Becton is that he is more of a sure thing to be available later in the 1rst, and a trade back for an additional early rounder is in place - all the more reason to consider this. That’s what I want. A trade back and still get our guy |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 17, 2020 20:21:28 GMT -5
...I guess i never really thought of it like that. To be fair, starting now we have Gates and Solder at OT, which IMO is better than Pulley at C. That being said I see us going OT over C in the draft only because there are no centers worthy of a 4th overall pick. I would LOVE it if we find a Center in this years draft. Whether its Ruiz, Cushenberry, Biadasz, or Harris, I just want us to find a new center Cam Flemming will start over Gates at OT. Teams don't pay $3.5m for a guy that can't beat out their current back up for a starting job. But I agree we might go OT over C in the draft because the chips may fall that way. No way is a C going at 4 for us. Even if we go Simmons at 4 we might go OT at 36, leaving C for round 3.
Center has to get picked early though.
Mike I think we go OT with our 1st pick and am hoping Center with our 2nd. Our compensatory pick in the 3rd is the 99th pick in the draft. Don't think a Day 1 starting Center is left that long before being drafted. This is why I'm hoping OL over a top defensive player. IMHO we go defense the next couple years |
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 17, 2020 20:51:11 GMT -5
Mike I think we go OT with our 1st pick and am hoping Center with our 2nd. Our compensatory pick in the 3rd is the 99th pick in the draft. Don't think a Day 1 starting Center is left that long before being drafted. This is why I'm hoping OL over a top defensive player. IMHO we go defense the next couple years That's fair. A Center has to be our choice early on (2nd or 3rd round). I think the only way we go OT in round 1 is if one is close to the highest rated guy on our board. I don't think that happens, unless we trade back. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 17, 2020 22:43:32 GMT -5
Cam Flemming will start over Gates at OT. Teams don't pay $3.5m for a guy that can't beat out their current back up for a starting job. But I agree we might go OT over C in the draft because the chips may fall that way. No way is a C going at 4 for us. Even if we go Simmons at 4 we might go OT at 36, leaving C for round 3.
Center has to get picked early though.
Mike I think we go OT with our 1st pick and am hoping Center with our 2nd. Our compensatory pick in the 3rd is the 99th pick in the draft. Don't think a Day 1 starting Center is left that long before being drafted. This is why I'm hoping OL over a top defensive player. IMHO we go defense the next couple years Same page as usual and logic Seems the smoke from today's presser is also with a trade back if they can get one.. |
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