|
Post by roundabout on Apr 19, 2020 18:19:41 GMT -5
So Your opinion Do we risk waiting for a C at 99 with how unpredictable everyone's big boards are with this Covid-19 situation if an obvious BPA hits us at 36 with no trade back (Think Murray,Baun,Mims) Or a strategic reach for a particular player we like a lot a C but can't chance with how volatile the draft boards are... History shows a strategic reach for a player teams really like tend to work... Frederick in Dallas was a mid 3rd round graded C in 2013....we all pointed and laughed at Dallas.. Grrrr... It seems like the Giants like Hennessy...36 might be a little early, but he might not make it out of the second. If they like him, maybe they trade down a few spots in the second? Grabbing a starting Center is going to be tricky if we don't get one at 36,99 is basically an early 4th rounder and I think there won't be much to choose from.I like Ruiz but he should be scooped up before 36.Hennessy is climbing up the boards and I think you're right I think He's a late second early 3rd..Then there's Cushenberry who didn't exactly get a big vote of confidence from Diehl and O'Hara..Plus Cushenberry seems to be dropping while Hennessy is moving up...Damn that 68th pick looks like the spot where we could have gotten are center without reaching..Let's hope Ruiz falls to us
|
|
|
Post by lexington11 on Apr 19, 2020 19:46:10 GMT -5
they also said solder has his best football around. Hey what rounds were those drafted again? Diehl was the starting LT on two super bowl teams. 5th round pick 160. O’Hara? Not even drafted. So proof you don’t need to reach at 4 for an OT.
|
|
|
Post by roundabout on Apr 19, 2020 19:58:32 GMT -5
they also said solder has his best football around. Hey what rounds were those drafted again? Diehl was the starting LT on two super bowl teams. 5th round pick 160. O’Hara? Not even drafted. So proof you don’t need to reach at 4 for an OT. Yeah we got lucky with that line because it's not the norm.You forgot Seubert who wasn't drafted
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Apr 19, 2020 20:09:09 GMT -5
Damn … O'Hara is working some serious pit-stains
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Apr 19, 2020 20:19:07 GMT -5
they also said solder has his best football around. Hey what rounds were those drafted again? Diehl was the starting LT on two super bowl teams. 5th round pick 160. O’Hara? Not even drafted. So proof you don’t need to reach at 4 for an OT. Andrew Thomas, for example, is highly rated player so he is not a reach at all at 4. Simmons would be a great pick at 4 but so would a top OT. As far as Solder I think they are cutting him slack. I realize he had personal issues last year but I think he just doesn't have the goods anymore.
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Apr 19, 2020 21:53:23 GMT -5
There is NOTHING in the way Thomas moves his feet that reminds me of Flowers. THAT technique is ready for prime time. Becton.... Becton and Flowers are nothing alike as prospects. Literally, not a thing.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Apr 19, 2020 22:37:04 GMT -5
Becton and Flowers are nothing alike as prospects. Literally, not a thing. That remains to be seen. Their draft profiles list similar weaknesses like balance, punch and quickness issues. Becton will suffer the same physical disadvantage of big men covering lighting-quick edge rushers. He's going to have to show he can work hard to overcome the things that Flowers couldn't, and it will be even more difficult at his size.
|
|
|
Post by alw10 on Apr 19, 2020 23:22:52 GMT -5
Love the chemistry these guys still have with each other.
|
|
|
Post by JoeyCush on Apr 20, 2020 0:27:53 GMT -5
Give me an OT or give me death.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2020 0:52:36 GMT -5
they also said solder has his best football around. Hey what rounds were those drafted again? Diehl was the starting LT on two super bowl teams. 5th round pick 160. O’Hara? Not even drafted. So proof you don’t need to reach at 4 for an OT. Can't pick and choose their quotes ... that would sound a bit fake news ...no Lex? Solder has his best football...around? Around what? Not even close to what O'Hara said. Shaun said, he might have a few seasons left (DD agreed)..and a right tackle like Wills can slide to left if they release him after a year....Wirfs as well, although they think not needed for OG. It was a vote for the right tackle pick, with a future at left for Wills...Thomas a LT and Solder moving RT. They ALSO said .. both of them....OT at 4 > Simmons They ALSO said .. both of them....Becton needs the most work, and technique was raw....and his hand issues were like Flowers. Fake news 101...edit till it fits an agenda ... use the Solder quote from source to further Simmons, and ignore the same sources suggesting OT over Simmons, and same sources ravaging Becton...I do believe, your superstar tackle. All fine opinions, Simmons and Becton...until your fake news destroyed that credibility.
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2020 1:14:14 GMT -5
Becton and Flowers are nothing alike as prospects. Literally, not a thing. That remains to be seen. Their draft profiles list similar weaknesses like balance, punch and quickness issues. Becton will suffer the same physical disadvantage of big men covering lighting-quick edge rushers. He's going to have to show he can work hard to overcome the things that Flowers couldn't, and it will be even more difficult at his size. - He's a lot bigger than Flowers. Roughly 40 Lbs. its.. really not close. - He a much better athlete at a much bigger size. Two pronged. - He has much better technique, and punch. In fact, i've rarely if ever seen a prospect who's punch is like this. He also displays much better footwork and lateral agility Balance? Can you provide examples? I've never seen a bigger man at OT. Also seen him absolutely rag dolling anything in his path in the run game. Where are his balance issues? The only people comparing him to Flowers is Giants fans. At least do research prior. Its a weak comparison. Im not even a massive fan of his as I want us to take Wills. But lets not get carried away
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2020 1:33:17 GMT -5
Becton and Flowers are nothing alike as prospects. Literally, not a thing. These retired Giants disagree...Flowers hand placement exactly the same problem as Becton has. 23:15 on the video
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Apr 20, 2020 8:45:36 GMT -5
they also said solder has his best football around. Hey what rounds were those drafted again? Diehl was the starting LT on two super bowl teams. 5th round pick 160. O’Hara? Not even drafted. So proof you don’t need to reach at 4 for an OT. Can't pick and choose their quotes ... that would sound a bit fake news ...no Lex? Solder has his best football...around? Around what? Not even close to what O'Hara said. Shaun said, he might have a few seasons left (DD agreed)..and a right tackle like Wills can slide to left if they release him after a year....Wirfs as well, although they think not needed for OG. It was a vote for the right tackle pick, with a future at left for Wills...Thomas a LT and Solder moving RT. They ALSO said .. both of them....OT at 4 > SimmonsThey ALSO said .. both of them....Becton needs the most work, and technique was raw....and his hand issues were like Flowers. Fake news 101...edit till it fits an agenda ... use the Solder quote from source to further Simmons, and ignore the same sources suggesting OT over Simmons, and same sources ravaging Becton...I do believe, your superstar tackle. All fine opinions, Simmons and Becton...until your fake news destroyed that credibility. Yes, 2 former OL like the OLs over a LB? Crazy I say!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2020 9:13:29 GMT -5
Can't pick and choose their quotes ... that would sound a bit fake news ...no Lex? Solder has his best football...around? Around what? Not even close to what O'Hara said. Shaun said, he might have a few seasons left (DD agreed)..and a right tackle like Wills can slide to left if they release him after a year....Wirfs as well, although they think not needed for OG. It was a vote for the right tackle pick, with a future at left for Wills...Thomas a LT and Solder moving RT. They ALSO said .. both of them....OT at 4 > SimmonsThey ALSO said .. both of them....Becton needs the most work, and technique was raw....and his hand issues were like Flowers. Fake news 101...edit till it fits an agenda ... use the Solder quote from source to further Simmons, and ignore the same sources suggesting OT over Simmons, and same sources ravaging Becton...I do believe, your superstar tackle. All fine opinions, Simmons and Becton...until your fake news destroyed that credibility. Yes, 2 former OL like the OLs over a LB? Crazy I say! We'll need to know their wonderlic test scores before we can totally discount their opinion as positional bias .... at least a 43 and we can believe them
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2020 11:48:37 GMT -5
Becton and Flowers are nothing alike as prospects. Literally, not a thing. These retired Giants disagree...Flowers hand placement exactly the same problem as Becton has. 23:15 on the video Funny you mention retired OTs. One by the name of Joe Thomas has his OT prospects ranked as the following: 1(a) Becton 1(b) Wills 3. Thomas 4. Wirfs Becton: Becton Pros; size, athleticism, run blocking in the wide zone scheme, ankle and hip mobility, suddenness Cons; can get tired, lack of experience pass blocking, not a lot of tape, lack of technique pass blocking. (Becton continued): I still have him as 1a because of his ceiling, and I don't see anything that a great OL coach can't correct On Wills: Wills Pros; change of direction, ability to create power, ability to stop power quickly, mobility, technique is clearly the best in the draft, size Cons; if you watch a lot of his tape, he has had some mental lapses with penalties and getting lulled to sleep by lesser opponents (Wills continued): Overall, he's the guy who is the most NFL ready, and would clearly be the #1 guy if the ceiling for Becton wasn't so high. I see him as the most sure-fire offensive lineman in this draft. His movement skills and suddenness is impressive for a college player Thomas: Thomas Pros; Very good athlete, good technique, tough, physical Thomas Cons; can get overextended, doesn't create as much power biomechanically as some of the other guys, sometimes struggles to recover, bull rush could be a concern (Thomas continued): Overall, I have him #3 because he doesn't create as much power in the run game as the two guys in front of him and he can't stop the power moves in pass prop as well as the two guys in front of him. Wirfs: Wirfs Pros; extremely strong and powerful, smart, tough, good technique Wirfs Cons; sometimes guys who have powerlifter lower body strength have "heavy" legs and you can see that on tape from Wirfs. His first step quickness and change of direction suddenness could be better (Wirfs continued): Overall, a great player who likely will be a tackle long term, but might be best suited to start at guard because of less than perfect mobility and suddenness. A mauler (good) but those types sometimes struggle to keep up with the athletes you see on the edge Not sure which vid you're reffering to. Or which OT's. But im going to go with Thomas's take even if I like Wills better than Becton.
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Apr 20, 2020 12:05:44 GMT -5
Becton is my least favorite of the 4 tackles, while I won't be disappointed if that's our pick (I trust the Giants analysis way more than my own), I'd prefer any of the other 3 guys, with Thomas being my favorite (which is funny, as he seems to be the last guy on a lot of analysts lists).
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Apr 20, 2020 12:14:05 GMT -5
Becton is my least favorite of the 4 tackles, while I won't be disappointed if that's our pick (I trust the Giants analysis way more than my own), I'd prefer any of the other 3 guys, with Thomas being my favorite (which is funny, as he seems to be the last guy on a lot of analysts lists). "They" seem to think Thomas is what he is. Wont be an ALL PRO great OT but a good one. "They" seem to have higher ceilings for Wills and Wirfs. Becton has the highest ceiling but the most risk for bust. I agree about the bust part. I have been a fan of Thomas from the start of the draft season. Just seems like an easy fit and will be more than just "good". Wills 2nd Wirfs 3rd Becton a distant 4th. Would not be a fan of him at 4. If they trade back and get him else where then that would be better use of draft capital IMO
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2020 14:28:06 GMT -5
These retired Giants disagree...Flowers hand placement exactly the same problem as Becton has. 23:15 on the video Not sure which vid you're reffering to. Or which OT's. But im going to go with Thomas's take even if I like Wills better than Becton. I was referring to the original post. It has a video on it, and the entire thread is based on that one video. They are two Giants offensive linemen, and named in the thread title. Diehl & O'Hara Talk Tackles in the Draft
Diehl and O'Hara are retired OL that played for the NY Giants The NY Giants...this entire board is based upon them. ...and Simmons
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2020 14:31:40 GMT -5
Not sure which vid you're reffering to. Or which OT's. But im going to go with Thomas's take even if I like Wills better than Becton. I was referring to the original post. It has a video on it, and the entire thread is based on that one video. They are two Giants offensive linemen, and named in the thread title. Diehl & O'Hara Talk Tackles in the Draft
Diehl and O'Hara are retired OL that played for the NY Giants The NY Giants...this entire board is based upon them. ...and Simmons Yeah im not big on DD's take, or his quality as a OT himself. Ohara played OC. Im going to go with Joe Thomas on this one.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2020 15:06:58 GMT -5
I was referring to the original post. It has a video on it, and the entire thread is based on that one video. They are two Giants offensive linemen, and named in the thread title. Diehl & O'Hara Talk Tackles in the Draft
Diehl and O'Hara are retired OL that played for the NY Giants The NY Giants...this entire board is based upon them. ...and Simmons Yeah im not big on DD's take, or his quality as a OT himself. Ohara played OC. Im going to go with Joe Thomas on this one. Of course, and I'm sure there's still a big debate on who is the best of the tackles among the ex players and in each teams scouting department. I honestly don't believe scouts have to had played a certain position to become good at evaluating....just interesting watching two ex NY Giant guys talk shop about their ex teams. Remember, the better a player is does not make them a better manager, coach scout or teacher...I'd take the word of a Giants scout over any ex player...but yeah, they certainly know more then us fans.
|
|
|
Post by jb456 on Apr 20, 2020 19:34:43 GMT -5
Can't pick and choose their quotes ... that would sound a bit fake news ...no Lex? Solder has his best football...around? Around what? Not even close to what O'Hara said. Shaun said, he might have a few seasons left (DD agreed)..and a right tackle like Wills can slide to left if they release him after a year....Wirfs as well, although they think not needed for OG. It was a vote for the right tackle pick, with a future at left for Wills...Thomas a LT and Solder moving RT. They ALSO said .. both of them....OT at 4 > SimmonsThey ALSO said .. both of them....Becton needs the most work, and technique was raw....and his hand issues were like Flowers. Fake news 101...edit till it fits an agenda ... use the Solder quote from source to further Simmons, and ignore the same sources suggesting OT over Simmons, and same sources ravaging Becton...I do believe, your superstar tackle. All fine opinions, Simmons and Becton...until your fake news destroyed that credibility. Yes, 2 former OL like the OLs over a LB? Crazy I say! They made a solid point though. If the Giants draft a starting quality tackle and center, they would almost be set with the offense. They probably score more than 27 points a game and let the defense play ahead, which is an advantage.
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2020 20:00:44 GMT -5
Yeah im not big on DD's take, or his quality as a OT himself. Ohara played OC. Im going to go with Joe Thomas on this one. Of course, and I'm sure there's still a big debate on who is the best of the tackles among the ex players and in each teams scouting department. I honestly don't believe scouts have to had played a certain position to become good at evaluating....just interesting watching two ex NY Giant guys talk shop about their ex teams. Remember, the better a player is does not make them a better manager, coach scout or teacher...I'd take the word of a Giants scout over any ex player...but yeah, they certainly know more then us fans. Lets go Judge!!
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2020 20:23:30 GMT -5
Yes, 2 former OL like the OLs over a LB? Crazy I say! They made a solid point though. If the Giants draft a starting quality tackle and center, they would almost be set with the offense. They probably score more than 27 points a game and let the defense play ahead, which is an advantage. And that's even before adding another good reciever mid round somewhere.. Which helps the defense shockingly enough.. Logic
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Apr 20, 2020 20:27:04 GMT -5
Yes, 2 former OL like the OLs over a LB? Crazy I say! They made a solid point though. If the Giants draft a starting quality tackle and center, they would almost be set with the offense. They probably score more than 27 points a game and let the defense play ahead, which is an advantage. 27 points sounds good to me if the other team scores less. This isn't college.
|
|
|
Post by jb456 on Apr 20, 2020 21:16:22 GMT -5
They made a solid point though. If the Giants draft a starting quality tackle and center, they would almost be set with the offense. They probably score more than 27 points a game and let the defense play ahead, which is an advantage. 27 points sounds good to me if the other team scores less. This isn't college. To put in perspective, 27 points per game doesn't sound like alot but would be top 4 in the league in 2019.
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Apr 21, 2020 6:14:15 GMT -5
27 points sounds good to me if the other team scores less. This isn't college. To put in perspective, 27 points per game doesn't sound like alot but would be top 4 in the league in 2019. it's like a pipe dream after watching our moribund offense the last few years...
|
|
|
Post by Roswell on Apr 21, 2020 8:24:49 GMT -5
The former Olinemen make a really good argument for drafting an OT.
And Strahan makes a good argument for drafting Simmons.
Either way, the Giants stand to gain.
|
|
|
Post by jb456 on Apr 21, 2020 9:07:03 GMT -5
To put in perspective, 27 points per game doesn't sound like alot but would be top 4 in the league in 2019. it's like a pipe dream after watching our moribund offense the last few years... Yeah, it has been pathetic. A huge reason why it has been pathetic has been the wretched Oline. I think we have to go all the way back to 2015 for an average Oline. In 2015, the Giants offense was good. What could Barkley do with the ball if he isn't constantly being hit behind the LOS? What can an average QB do if he has an extra half second to throw the ball?
|
|
|
Post by infinite420 on Apr 21, 2020 10:15:05 GMT -5
Becton is my least favorite of the 4 tackles, while I won't be disappointed if that's our pick (I trust the Giants analysis way more than my own), I'd prefer any of the other 3 guys, with Thomas being my favorite (which is funny, as he seems to be the last guy on a lot of analysts lists). "They" seem to think Thomas is what he is. Wont be an ALL PRO great OT but a good one. "They" seem to have higher ceilings for Wills and Wirfs. Becton has the highest ceiling but the most risk for bust. I agree about the bust part. I have been a fan of Thomas from the start of the draft season. Just seems like an easy fit and will be more than just "good". Wills 2nd Wirfs 3rd Becton a distant 4th. Would not be a fan of him at 4. If they trade back and get him else where then that would be better use of draft capital IMO Thats my order too
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 21, 2020 10:29:56 GMT -5
I think any of the top 3 OT's is a can't miss pick. IMHO everyone of them are going to be great players. With that said it gives us the option to trade back. Hopefully we can make a trade back in the top 9 for an extra top pick or two.
Didn't agree that college players (at Bama) that play too much are already beat up between the ages of 20-22. And with that said Wills is supposedly not. Wills went to Bama and is a Patriots fan. Hmm a little love for Judges coaching choices. Great minds think alike, perhaps. Winners.
Enjoyed the video from 2 guys that love the Giants.
|
|