rbe40
Special Teams
Posts: 800
|
Post by rbe40 on Apr 25, 2020 13:53:58 GMT -5
In this Pats-style D, the "Edge Rusher" is completely devalued. The speedy, bendy edge rusher who gets upfield is moot in this scheme.
Belichick doesn't care about that position. Neither do Gettleman/Judge. We can see that based on their signings/drafting. Belichick values every other position on D (IDL, LB, CB, S) over ER.
This defensive scheme is about disrupting the pocket from the inside shoulder of the Left Tackle to the inside shoulder of the Right Tackle, containing the QB in the pocket and forcing him to throw with guys in his face.
The "Edge Rusher" in this scheme is there to contain the QB, NOT to rush upfield past and behind the QB like the overrated Osi Umenyiora used to always do. Rush to a certain depth, stay on the inside shoulder of the OT, and squeeze inside. Contain the QB. The pressure comes from the 3 IDL pushing the pocket inside, and blitzing ILBs up the middle. The secondary reads the pocket squeeze and covers accordingly.
|
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Apr 25, 2020 14:00:54 GMT -5
I think after Young and Simmons the quality dropped to where it's not much better than what we already have.
|
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Apr 25, 2020 14:01:28 GMT -5
In this Pats-style D, the "Edge Rusher" is completely devalued. The speedy, bendy edge rusher who gets upfield is moot in this scheme. Belichick doesn't care about that position. Neither do Gettleman/Judge. We can see that based on their signings/drafting. Belichick values every other position on D (IDL, LB, CB, S) over ER. This defensive scheme is about disrupting the pocket from the inside shoulder of the Left Tackle to the inside shoulder of the Right Tackle, containing the QB in the pocket and forcing him to throw with guys in his face. The "Edge Rusher" in this scheme is there to contain the QB, NOT to rush upfield past and behind the QB like the overrated Osi Umenyiora used to always do. Rush to a certain depth, stay on the inside shoulder of the OT, and squeeze inside. Contain the QB. The pressure comes from the 3 IDL pushing the pocket inside, and blitzing ILBs up the middle. The secondary reads the pocket squeeze and covers accordingly.  |
|
|
|
Post by hadenough on Apr 25, 2020 14:02:19 GMT -5
In this Pats-style D, the "Edge Rusher" is completely devalued. The speedy, bendy edge rusher who gets upfield is moot in this scheme. Belichick doesn't care about that position. Neither do Gettleman/Judge. We can see that based on their signings/drafting. Belichick values every other position on D (IDL, LB, CB, S) over ER. This defensive scheme is about disrupting the pocket from the inside shoulder of the Left Tackle to the inside shoulder of the Right Tackle, containing the QB in the pocket and forcing him to throw with guys in his face. The "Edge Rusher" in this scheme is there to contain the QB, NOT to rush upfield past and behind the QB like the overrated Osi Umenyiora used to always do. Rush to a certain depth, stay on the inside shoulder of the OT, and squeeze inside. Contain the QB. The pressure comes from the 3 IDL pushing the pocket inside, and blitzing ILBs up the middle. The secondary reads the pocket squeeze and covers accordingly. Haha...nice cheap shot on Osi. |
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Apr 25, 2020 14:12:32 GMT -5
On what planet does an edge rusher not matter?
Opposing quarterbacks probably would agree. Defensive coordinators would argue strongly against it.
Our recent super bowl victories were on the backs of our great rushers at the end positions. I know that feels like a lifetime ago, but it wasn’t.
|
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 25, 2020 14:18:19 GMT -5
Do you even know what kind of scheme we are running to absurdly say pass rush doesnt matter?
|
|
|
|
Post by trueblueatnyc on Apr 25, 2020 14:35:24 GMT -5
This is absurd. Edge rushers certainly matter. Maybe the team has more faith in the combination of Carter, Ximines and Fackrell to produce a rush from the outside than we do. Maybe they think Williams provides more of a rush in this scheme. Maybe they think better secondary play will give the rush more time to get there or allow for more blitzing options.
Who knows. I'm stunned that they didn't use an early pick on an edge rusher.
|
|
|
|
Post by allnygin on Apr 25, 2020 14:40:12 GMT -5
I mean this was the draft to kind of neglect it esp since we had so many other glaring holes. The draft wasn't the best for edge rushers anyway.. We got pieces for the oline and hopefully completed both oline work and secondary. Next draft we focus on pass rushers, lbrs, and wrs. This takes time.
I love the fact that they invested in the oline.. for once we may not have to worry about it for a very long time, same with the secondary. This i what rebuilding looks like. The Edge rusher will come.
|
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Apr 25, 2020 14:47:20 GMT -5
anybody who says an edge rusher doesn't matter is fooling himself, todays NFL is a passing league and passers must be stopped or you will die from it..
|
|
mj312
Special Teams
Posts: 1,131
|
Post by mj312 on Apr 25, 2020 14:49:16 GMT -5
In this Pats-style D, the "Edge Rusher" is completely devalued. The speedy, bendy edge rusher who gets upfield is moot in this scheme. Belichick doesn't care about that position. Neither do Gettleman/Judge. We can see that based on their signings/drafting. Belichick values every other position on D (IDL, LB, CB, S) over ER. This defensive scheme is about disrupting the pocket from the inside shoulder of the Left Tackle to the inside shoulder of the Right Tackle, containing the QB in the pocket and forcing him to throw with guys in his face. The "Edge Rusher" in this scheme is there to contain the QB, NOT to rush upfield past and behind the QB like the overrated Osi Umenyiora used to always do. Rush to a certain depth, stay on the inside shoulder of the OT, and squeeze inside. Contain the QB. The pressure comes from the 3 IDL pushing the pocket inside, and blitzing ILBs up the middle. The secondary reads the pocket squeeze and covers accordingly. Ohh so maybe the giants have been trying to mimic the pats for the last 10 years or so but forget to tell the interior lineman they are responsible for pushing the pocket . Its all making sense now why gettleman ignores pass rushers . Guess the only thing we need now is for our lineman to actually apply pressure . |
|
|
|
Post by lt56 on Apr 25, 2020 14:57:43 GMT -5
NO!
We still have Carter and Ximines both extremely athletic young Edge Rushers who we could see have Break Out Seasons...especially Carter going into his 3rd Season
Edge Rushers are VITAL in a 3-4...good Pass Rushers regardless of Scheme are Vital! QB's are the most valuable then the second most valuable are the guys who can GET to the QB! Try going up against Patrick Mahomes without Good Pass Rushers
|
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Apr 25, 2020 15:22:01 GMT -5
Well Miami was dead last in sacks with Graham last year so maybe you are right, Edge doesn't matter...but then again maybe we don't want to be dead last in sacks. That would be my plan...not be the worst in the league.
|
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Apr 25, 2020 15:23:33 GMT -5
NO! We still have Carter and Ximines both extremely athletic young Edge Rushers who we could see have Break Out Seasons...especially Carter going into his 3rd Season Edge Rushers are VITAL in a 3-4...good Pass Rushers regardless of Scheme are Vital! QB's are the most valuable then the second most valuable are the guys who can GET to the QB! Trying going up against Patrick Mahomes without Good Pass Rushers When we delete Solder we will have extra cap space to get a great one if needed |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 15:25:26 GMT -5
Well Miami was dead last in sacks with Graham last year so maybe you are right, Edge doesn't matter...but then again maybe we don't want to be dead last in sacks. That would be my plan...not be the worst in the league. Haha. That seems like high expectations brother |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Apr 25, 2020 16:17:59 GMT -5
Would that scheme be flag football?
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Apr 25, 2020 19:09:09 GMT -5
What happens here is that when you don't get a real good pass rusher in the draft you say a DE pass rusher doesn't matter. Its a way of convincing yourself. But believe me good DE pass rushers matter. Its absurd to think otherwise. Insane actually.
|
|
|
|
Post by nostrildamus on Apr 26, 2020 8:48:10 GMT -5
With all these young fast LBs, and no Edge rushers, we'll be playing a 2-5 defense
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 8:55:49 GMT -5
While the OP hyper boles his way through his post, he does have somewhat of a point. Why isn't anyone willing to pay any of the FA pass rushers market price?
|
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Apr 26, 2020 10:26:27 GMT -5
While the OP hyper boles his way through his post, he does have somewhat of a point. Why isn't anyone willing to pay any of the FA pass rushers market price? I wouldnt go as far to say Edge doesnt matter, but there is a school of thought recently with teams loading up on good DBs and looking for more push inside the DL. And if JJ is true to his word, he will be able to scheme pressure when needed. |
|
|
|
Post by bluebuddha on Apr 26, 2020 10:31:25 GMT -5
While the OP hyper boles his way through his post, he does have somewhat of a point. Why isn't anyone willing to pay any of the FA pass rushers market price? I wouldnt go as far to say Edge doesnt matter, but there is a school of thought recently with teams loading up on good DBs and looking for more push inside the DL. And if JJ is true to his word, he will be able to scheme pressure when needed. I think Dave said as much in his post draft conference today. That they are not relying one guy to be great a pass rushing. Its is going to be a group effort. The scheme will dictate it and the solidifying the secondary should bring more oppurtunities to stop the play. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 10:31:43 GMT -5
While the OP hyper boles his way through his post, he does have somewhat of a point. Why isn't anyone willing to pay any of the FA pass rushers market price? I wouldnt go as far to say Edge doesnt matter, but there is a school of thought recently with teams loading up on good DBs and looking for more push inside the DL. And if JJ is true to his word, he will be able to scheme pressure when needed. I wouldn't either, hence the term "hyper-bole". But you do have to question why no one is willing to pay guys like Clowney what they are looking for. |
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Apr 26, 2020 10:42:57 GMT -5
I wouldnt go as far to say Edge doesnt matter, but there is a school of thought recently with teams loading up on good DBs and looking for more push inside the DL. And if JJ is true to his word, he will be able to scheme pressure when needed. I wouldn't either, hence the term "hyper-bole". But you do have to question why no one is willing to pay guys like Clowney what they are looking for. True. I guess you can question the wisdom of paying a non-qb 20 mill a year, no matter how good he is. Unless he is like LT disruptive, you can easily have 2-3 good players for that $$. |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Apr 26, 2020 10:48:58 GMT -5
I wouldnt go as far to say Edge doesnt matter, but there is a school of thought recently with teams loading up on good DBs and looking for more push inside the DL. And if JJ is true to his word, he will be able to scheme pressure when needed. I wouldn't either, hence the term "hyper-bole". But you do have to question why no one is willing to pay guys like Clowney what they are looking for. Yannick and Clowney both think they are better than they are. |
|
Merc
Special Teams
Posts: 1,683
|
Post by Merc on Apr 26, 2020 10:59:31 GMT -5
I think Dallas beat us to the punch in rounds 4 & 5 for center and DE.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Apr 26, 2020 11:04:46 GMT -5
In this Pats-style D, the "Edge Rusher" is completely devalued. The speedy, bendy edge rusher who gets upfield is moot in this scheme. Belichick doesn't care about that position. Neither do Gettleman/Judge. We can see that based on their signings/drafting. Belichick values every other position on D (IDL, LB, CB, S) over ER. This defensive scheme is about disrupting the pocket from the inside shoulder of the Left Tackle to the inside shoulder of the Right Tackle, containing the QB in the pocket and forcing him to throw with guys in his face. The "Edge Rusher" in this scheme is there to contain the QB, NOT to rush upfield past and behind the QB like the overrated Osi Umenyiora used to always do. Rush to a certain depth, stay on the inside shoulder of the OT, and squeeze inside. Contain the QB. The pressure comes from the 3 IDL pushing the pocket inside, and blitzing ILBs up the middle. The secondary reads the pocket squeeze and covers accordingly. Haha...nice cheap shot on Osi. LOL totally uncalled for. |
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Apr 26, 2020 11:06:26 GMT -5
I wouldn't either, hence the term "hyper-bole". But you do have to question why no one is willing to pay guys like Clowney what they are looking for. Yannick and Clowney both think they are better than they are. Someone is worth what their contract says they are worth, not what they or their agent are asking for. |
|
|
|
Post by bringsimmsback on Apr 26, 2020 11:15:58 GMT -5
I wouldnt go as far to say Edge doesnt matter, but there is a school of thought recently with teams loading up on good DBs and looking for more push inside the DL. And if JJ is true to his word, he will be able to scheme pressure when needed. I wouldn't either, hence the term "hyper-bole". But you do have to question why no one is willing to pay guys like Clowney what they are looking for. Yeah, hyperbole aside, I've been bringing this up for a while. Not everyone in the NFL uses this approach but some do. More reliant on a strong back 7 then a single sack master. |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Apr 26, 2020 11:26:57 GMT -5
Yannick and Clowney both think they are better than they are. Someone is worth what their contract says they are worth, not what they or their agent are asking for. And what a team is willing to pay them. |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Apr 26, 2020 11:29:19 GMT -5
I wouldn't either, hence the term "hyper-bole". But you do have to question why no one is willing to pay guys like Clowney what they are looking for. Yeah, hyperbole aside, I've been bringing this up for a while. Not everyone in the NFL uses this approach but some do. More reliant on a strong back 7 then a single sack master. I think what we got out of a combination of X and Carter was just as productive as What the big ticket FA were producing. Fackrell is a Wild card. Can he reproduce the 18 season again giving enough snaps? |
|
redeyejedi
Special Teams
Draftbreakdown.com the poster formerly and still is known as Redeyejedi
Posts: 1,108
|
Post by redeyejedi on Apr 26, 2020 11:30:01 GMT -5
I think Dallas beat us to the punch in rounds 4 & 5 for center and DE. I thought we should of traded up for Tyler Biadasz made a mistake there but Shane Lemieux was my 2nd choice. |
|
