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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on May 11, 2020 13:52:21 GMT -5
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Post by Zimonami on May 11, 2020 14:26:22 GMT -5
lol... no panic. I ain't saying it'll be great... that will depend on the coaching and the schemes. Baker was lost in Bettcher's zone defense last year. His man skills were more impressive, which was what you saw in all his college hi-lite reels... tight man coverage. If we run a zone this year, the coaches will have to do a much better job teaching him his assignments.... for which he'll have to come to meetings and pay attention instead of nodding off, as word had it. So far, the general feel on these boards is a decent level of confidance that we'll have much better coaching. Let's hope so. The last batch was among the worst in memory... particularly the DB's, and the OLine.... garbage coaching.
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Post by Jomo on May 11, 2020 14:41:07 GMT -5
You gave me a much needed laugh! I agree with Zim, the kid has physical tools that are better than he showed. ….and he showed improvement through the year. He has a new coach who hopefully will try to utilize what he's good at rather than the opposite. No reason to panic. The headline overstated what was written in the article. Visualize for a moment adding another player to the mix in our D backfield who plays with 1st round skill..
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Post by dvision on May 11, 2020 14:50:49 GMT -5
The entire secondary was a mess the past few seasons. I'm gonna lay some of that blame on Bettcher and the other coaches that were supposed to prepare these guys. I'm gonna give all the rookies a pass. If we see more of the same this season then I'll pass judgement on players like Baker..
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Merc
Special Teams
Posts: 1,683
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Hmmmmm
May 11, 2020 15:11:51 GMT -5
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Post by Merc on May 11, 2020 15:11:51 GMT -5
We probably won't see a lot of zone coverage this year. Different talent set with better coaches.
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Post by OrangeGiant on May 11, 2020 15:11:53 GMT -5
I think he will benefit from the new coaches maybe more than any other player on defense. We might see a different player with a year of experience and being put in his position of strength rather than being used in a manner that doesn't.
We really can't afford many misses in the draft when you're trading up to get someone in the first round..so let's hope it happens.
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Post by Zimonami on May 11, 2020 15:30:59 GMT -5
We probably won't see a lot of zone coverage this year. Different talent set with better coaches. I've never been sold on zone coverage for a Pro defense. Very few teams have been great at it over the years. There is just too much field to cover with a potential for 4-5 receivers. With tackle eligible it could be 6. The more, the merrier for the offense . A team with smart receivers and QB can eat a zone alive, as we've seen done against us. Finding dead spots in the coverage is usually easy to see in films, and teams sure have exploited us. Especially with Collins... he was always 1-2 steps behind his man running through his zone before he realized too late that he was supposed to cover that guy. Baker was similar last year when he didn't have man coverage on the WR from the snap. He couldn't identify who he might have to be covering, and whether or not to break off coverage as he traversed zone areas. It can be a mess.... give these CB's man coverage, Amen.
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May 11, 2020 15:34:39 GMT -5
Post by snyder55 on May 11, 2020 15:34:39 GMT -5
The entire secondary was a mess the past few seasons. I'm gonna lay some of that blame on Bettcher and the other coaches that were supposed to prepare these guys. I'm gonna give all the rookies a pass. If we see more of the same this season then I'll pass judgement on players like Baker.. I don't know what other options those coaches had as far as putting better quality players on the field but they sure looked completely bewildered out the last season...
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Post by TheAnalyst on May 11, 2020 15:55:56 GMT -5
DeAndre Baker, Touchdown Eraser 2020
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Merc
Special Teams
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Post by Merc on May 11, 2020 16:07:37 GMT -5
We probably won't see a lot of zone coverage this year. Different talent set with better coaches. I've never been sold on zone coverage for a Pro defense. Very few teams have been great at it over the years. There is just too much field to cover with a potential for 4-5 receivers. With tackle eligible it could be 6. The more, the merrier for the offense . A team with smart receivers and QB can eat a zone alive, as we've seen done against us. Finding dead spots in the coverage is usually easy to see in films, and teams sure have exploited us. Especially with Collins... he was always 1-2 steps behind his man running through his zone before he realized too late that he was supposed to cover that guy. Baker was similar last year when he didn't have man coverage on the WR from the snap. He couldn't identify who he might have to be covering, and whether or not to break off coverage as he traversed zone areas. It can be a mess.... give these CB's man coverage, Amen. I don't know if it was Bettcher's style or Shurmer's direction, but it was a waste of our secondary's talent.
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Deleted
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May 11, 2020 16:30:52 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2020 16:30:52 GMT -5
I think this team is going to surprise many people first in that it will simply look nothing like the giants of the last few seasons. throw away the books on the shurmur era, and all the horrible performances from guys. though i think baker obivously had legit problems, discipline, etc, not just to be blamed on the staff, I really think the slate is wiped clean now. lets see what happens with him and so many others in 2020. this isnt our fathers gia...oh, this isnt OUR giants we've known anymore.
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May 11, 2020 17:08:24 GMT -5
Post by McCherry on May 11, 2020 17:08:24 GMT -5
I've been hard on Baker but he's really not someone I'm worried about at this point.
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Post by Kruunch on May 11, 2020 17:20:32 GMT -5
I've been hard on Baker but he's really not someone I'm worried about at this point. Right. What's there to be worried about? Just slept through meetings. Couldn't grasp the playbook. And on a few occasions let up on a play. Other than that there's nothing to be worried about.. Getting beat on the field is tolerable. Not taking your job seriously with preparation and understanding your playbook is not. Kid better grow the **** up this year. If we want to take the next step in our defense, Baker has to be a big contributor.
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Post by TCHOF on May 11, 2020 17:21:38 GMT -5
Hopefully this DC will wake him up when he falls asleep in meetings ….
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May 11, 2020 17:25:56 GMT -5
Post by Delicreep on May 11, 2020 17:25:56 GMT -5
I've been hard on Baker but he's really not someone I'm worried about at this point. Right. What's there to be worried about? Just slept through meetings. Couldn't grasp the playbook. And on a few occasions let up on a play. Other than that there's nothing to be worried about.. Getting beat on the field is tolerable. Not taking your job seriously with preparation and understanding your playbook is not. Kid better grow the **** up this year. If we want to take the next step in our defense, Baker has to be a big contributor. OK...lot of low cards in that hand. How does a DC look at those factors and say, "here's our linchpin"? I have to feel that a switch to a simple (and of course not simple) man coverage base is the plan.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on May 11, 2020 17:31:06 GMT -5
"There are plenty of young options at cornerback, including Sam Beal ..."
Who?
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Post by Kruunch on May 11, 2020 17:35:06 GMT -5
Right. What's there to be worried about? Just slept through meetings. Couldn't grasp the playbook. And on a few occasions let up on a play. Other than that there's nothing to be worried about.. Getting beat on the field is tolerable. Not taking your job seriously with preparation and understanding your playbook is not. Kid better grow the **** up this year. If we want to take the next step in our defense, Baker has to be a big contributor. OK...lot of low cards in that hand. How does a DC look at those factors and say, "here's our linchpin"? I have to feel that a switch to a simple (and of course not simple) man coverage base is the plan. Simple. First, Graham has to have a 1 on 1 with Baker. Find how what makes the young man tick. Last year was last year, clean slate this year. But... We won't be tolerating this nonsense, we're building a team of players that put team first, themselves second. Want to be part of that? Because we think you can be a part of something special here. If that doesn't work, put him on special teams. That means punt coverage, kickoff, you name it. A little humble pie can do wonders..
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Post by McCherry on May 11, 2020 17:52:29 GMT -5
I've been hard on Baker but he's really not someone I'm worried about at this point. Right. What's there to be worried about? Just slept through meetings. Couldn't grasp the playbook. And on a few occasions let up on a play. Other than that there's nothing to be worried about.. Getting beat on the field is tolerable. Not taking your job seriously with preparation and understanding your playbook is not. Kid better grow the **** up this year. If we want to take the next step in our defense, Baker has to be a big contributor. I realize some posters here won't give him any credit but he did play better down the stretch, This kid has an amazing pedigree with an outstanding college career. I can't believe it's over because he fell asleep at a couple meetings. I slept my way through college. What's the point of having any faith in the new coaching staff if they can't salvage a high talented sophomore first round pick? And let's be honest, we do have depth and other options if need be. Much much worse rookies have been redeemed.
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May 11, 2020 18:19:18 GMT -5
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Post by giantsrock on May 11, 2020 18:19:18 GMT -5
Right. What's there to be worried about? Just slept through meetings. Couldn't grasp the playbook. And on a few occasions let up on a play. Other than that there's nothing to be worried about.. Getting beat on the field is tolerable. Not taking your job seriously with preparation and understanding your playbook is not. Kid better grow the **** up this year. If we want to take the next step in our defense, Baker has to be a big contributor. I realize some posters here won't give him any credit but he did play better down the stretch, This kid has an amazing pedigree with an outstanding college career. I can't believe it's over because he fell asleep at a couple meetings. I slept my way through college. What's the point of having any faith in the new coaching staff if they can't salvage a high talented sophomore first round pick? And let's be honest, we do have depth and other options if need be. Much much worse rookies have been redeemed. As the article said "He was graded as the 105th cornerback by Pro Football Focus." Is it even possible to be much much worse than that?
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Post by Kruunch on May 11, 2020 18:22:18 GMT -5
Right. What's there to be worried about? Just slept through meetings. Couldn't grasp the playbook. And on a few occasions let up on a play. Other than that there's nothing to be worried about.. Getting beat on the field is tolerable. Not taking your job seriously with preparation and understanding your playbook is not. Kid better grow the **** up this year. If we want to take the next step in our defense, Baker has to be a big contributor. I realize some posters here won't give him any credit but he did play better down the stretch, This kid has an amazing pedigree with an outstanding college career. I can't believe it's over because he fell asleep at a couple meetings. I slept my way through college. What's the point of having any faith in the new coaching staff if they can't salvage a high talented sophomore first round pick? And let's be honest, we do have depth and other options if need be. Much much worse rookies have been redeemed. Well can't speak for everyone but credit should be given when it's due. Want to say he played "better" down the stretch? Ok. Could it be the competition? Eagles were decimated at WR, signing guys off the street. Dolphins? I'll just leave that one alone. Redskins and last but not least those pesky Eagles and their no name wide receivers again. You sleeping though College is completely different than a paid professional sleeping through meetings. Baker is employed by a billion dollar franchise, that is paying him handsomely to play in a league that chews up and spits out highly talented players. Very strange comparison with that one... I don't recall any player still on this team that has slept through meetings, didn't study his playbook, or gave up on some plays. All three things are attached for better or worse to Baker. Easiest way to redeem himself is to have a good season.
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Post by Roosevelt on May 11, 2020 19:42:07 GMT -5
I've never been sold on zone coverage
Who can after watching the Giants try to play it for years?
Seemed to me our guys were just slow to react to the QB.
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May 11, 2020 19:47:12 GMT -5
Post by ThatGuyRich on May 11, 2020 19:47:12 GMT -5
When we came back up into the 1st rd and drafted Baker last year I really thought we got a steal with a third 1st rd pick. I thought him and JJ were 2 ballhawks at CB. And thought Peppers was going to be a real upgrade in pass defense. I knew FS was going to be a mess. The whole damn secondary was a mess. Not a single one of them were anywhere as good as I hoped and thought.
I was really rooting for Baker to come along as the season went on. He never did as far as I'm concerned. All I remember is him constantly running 2 steps behind the guy with the ball. Deep balls, crossing patterns, and square outs in the end zone.
Now with that said I am really rooting for this kid to get himself together and please be coachable. And if we need to use him in man then do it. Lets not force things on people that can't succeed that way. Give them the tools to succeed. Maybe we use combo's of man and zone in the same defense. But this kid is going to have to learn zone anyway. I mean lets be real.
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May 11, 2020 20:16:32 GMT -5
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Post by lexington11 on May 11, 2020 20:16:32 GMT -5
You gave me a much needed laugh! I agree with Zim, the kid has physical tools that are better than he showed. ….and he showed improvement through the year. He has a new coach who hopefully will try to utilize what he's good at rather than the opposite. No reason to panic. The headline overstated what was written in the article. Visualize for a moment adding another player to the mix in our D backfield who plays with 1st round skill.. hes a up on the line of scrimmage guy so he can use his physicality. He was mostly used off the ball which is not his strength. He will show what he really is this year.
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May 12, 2020 5:17:11 GMT -5
Post by GameTime on May 12, 2020 5:17:11 GMT -5
its very simple......Baker has to want to be a great NFL corner. if he doesnt have that drive then he will not make it very long.
He let up ONE TD in college and SEVEN last season. His confidence is shaken and he is dealing with self doubt.
As Krunch said Graham as to find out what make this kid tick and push him.
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May 12, 2020 5:37:43 GMT -5
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Post by TCHOF on May 12, 2020 5:37:43 GMT -5
its very simple......Baker has to want to be a great NFL corner. if he doesnt have that drive then he will not make it very long. He let up ONE TD in college and SEVEN last season. His confidence is shaken and he is dealing with self doubt. As Krunch said Graham as to find out what make this kid tick and push him. Maybe tape the game plans to the inside of his eyelids?
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May 12, 2020 6:04:18 GMT -5
Post by GameTime on May 12, 2020 6:04:18 GMT -5
its very simple......Baker has to want to be a great NFL corner. if he doesnt have that drive then he will not make it very long. He let up ONE TD in college and SEVEN last season. His confidence is shaken and he is dealing with self doubt. As Krunch said Graham as to find out what make this kid tick and push him. Maybe tape the game plans to the inside of his eyelids? so, as a fan, you've given up on Baker already?
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May 12, 2020 6:26:45 GMT -5
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Post by TCHOF on May 12, 2020 6:26:45 GMT -5
Maybe tape the game plans to the inside of his eyelids? so, as a fan, you've given up on Baker already? Haven’t given up ... just being realistic. In my experience, I have never seen a person overcome a poor work ethic. If this guy is the first to do it, that would be great.
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Post by GameTime on May 12, 2020 6:58:52 GMT -5
so, as a fan, you've given up on Baker already? Haven’t given up ... just being realistic. In my experience, I have never seen a person overcome a poor work ethic. If this guy is the first to do it, that would be great. "never"....no one you knew has never improved his/her work ethic ever??!! Wow you must know some pretty lame people then. Either that or everyone you know is just awesome. If you want to be realistic then focus on the fact that he got better the last part of the season. I do agree its all up to him to get the "eye of the tiger" so to speak. I totally disagree he is doomed to to a life of NFL mediocrity.
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Post by bavarobeast on May 12, 2020 7:33:18 GMT -5
Baker gave up one touchdown in college. He shut down the best WR’s in the SEC. He has physical tools to become an all - pro. He had a bad “ rookie year” with questionable coaching.
RUMOR is he dozed off in a meeting - zero proof that was a regular issue. News flash - he’s probably not the first player to do that.
The drama dudes need to un wad their undies and relax - DB will be fine.
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Deleted
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May 12, 2020 7:38:47 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2020 7:38:47 GMT -5
Baker gave up one touchdown in college. He shut down the best WR’s in the SEC. He has physical tools to become an all - pro. He had a bad “ rookie year” with questionable coaching. RUMOR is he dozed off in a meeting - zero proof that was a regular issue. News flash - he’s probably not the first player to do that. The drama dudes need to un wad their undies and relax - DB will be fine. I guess because you just said so then it will be! I hope you are right this time! I guess I'm a drama dude because it's unacceptable for a player struggling to be caught sleeping during meetings. I'm also well a ware that players do fall a sleep with LT being the 1st that comes to mind but I was under the belief this happened after a few years of dominating in the league.
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