goldenratio
Special Teams
"Son, you all got to do better than this,"
Posts: 749
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Post by goldenratio on Jul 16, 2018 12:52:38 GMT -5
I wanted Barkley and was so excited when we picked him. And then getting Hernandez at #2 my feet didn't touch the ground for 3 days. If we didn't draft Barkley I was praying we would draft down and get picks. Only wanted 1st and 2nd rd picks. Am very happy the way things worked out. Woohoo B A R K L E Y! WE GOT BARKLEY!
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Post by EliQB10 on Jul 16, 2018 14:54:28 GMT -5
These are all legitimate concerns but with the right coaching maybe one of them becomes a legitimate NFL starting QB, maybe not?...With that being said I am in no way disappointed that we ended up with Barkley...Let's Go Giants! Well the biggest concern is a damned near certainty...and that's that our QB's career will be ending soon. So they have "concerns" about these guy and failed to trust their scouting and judgement and just pretended that Eli was 28 years old....and did essentially nothing about it except half measures like drafting a QB in RD 4.
Which QB did you want?
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CrushGroove
Special Teams
Grouchy Tiger Squad
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Post by CrushGroove on Jul 16, 2018 15:23:48 GMT -5
I think about it like this, the 2018 QB class was underwhelming and had no clear standout pro ready QB. Give Eli this year to prove he still has it, if he doesn't we suck this year and likely end up with a high draft pick next year. If we do ok and are middle of the pack, let's evaluate where we really are and adjust those positions accordingly. We can also see what we have in our 2 young backup QBs.
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Post by snyder55 on Jul 16, 2018 15:45:06 GMT -5
I think Barkley was a can't miss selection and I'm not sure any of the QBs had that distinction...
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 16, 2018 16:24:05 GMT -5
Well the biggest concern is a damned near certainty...and that's that our QB's career will be ending soon. So they have "concerns" about these guy and failed to trust their scouting and judgement and just pretended that Eli was 28 years old....and did essentially nothing about it except half measures like drafting a QB in RD 4.
Which QB did you want? Well going into the draft I wanted Mayfield. Obviously that turned out to be impossible. I would say Rosen would have been my next choice, then Darnold.
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 16, 2018 16:25:02 GMT -5
I think Barkley was a can't miss selection and I'm not sure any of the QBs had that distinction... Can't miss for?....3 years? 5 years? Hit on a QB and you have the most important position in all of sports locked up for 15 years.
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Post by EliQB10 on Jul 16, 2018 16:48:40 GMT -5
I think Barkley was a can't miss selection and I'm not sure any of the QBs had that distinction... Can't miss for?....3 years? 5 years? Hit on a QB and you have the most important position in all of sports locked up for 15 years.
Your point is well taken but our front office did not view any of the QBs as 1st round pick material so like you've stated earlier only time will tell if this decision comes back to bite us...
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Post by Speedman on Jul 16, 2018 20:43:36 GMT -5
These are all legitimate concerns but with the right coaching maybe one of them becomes a legitimate NFL starting QB, maybe not?...With that being said I am in no way disappointed that we ended up with Barkley...Let's Go Giants! Well the biggest concern is a damned near certainty...and that's that our QB's career will be ending soon. So they have "concerns" about these guy and failed to trust their scouting and judgement and just pretended that Eli was 28 years old....and did essentially nothing about it except half measures like drafting a QB in RD 4.
Where do you get that they failed to trust their scouting and judgement?
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Post by EliQB10 on Jul 16, 2018 20:53:24 GMT -5
Well the biggest concern is a damned near certainty...and that's that our QB's career will be ending soon. So they have "concerns" about these guy and failed to trust their scouting and judgement and just pretended that Eli was 28 years old....and did essentially nothing about it except half measures like drafting a QB in RD 4.
Where do you get that they failed to trust their scouting and judgement? Good question? Is it so hard to believe that the front office just didn't feel that any of the QBs was their guy?
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 16, 2018 23:00:02 GMT -5
Well the biggest concern is a damned near certainty...and that's that our QB's career will be ending soon. So they have "concerns" about these guy and failed to trust their scouting and judgement and just pretended that Eli was 28 years old....and did essentially nothing about it except half measures like drafting a QB in RD 4.
Where do you get that they failed to trust their scouting and judgement? That is my opinion. I think Gettleman went for the short term gain at the cost of the long term interests of the team.
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 17, 2018 6:11:51 GMT -5
I have no problem if the decision to pass on a QB was based on the fact that we weren’t sold on any of the QB’s.
I have a big problem if we passed on a QB we had rated as a franchise QB because we think that Eli can bring us another championship.
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Post by Speedman on Jul 17, 2018 7:40:41 GMT -5
I have no problem if the decision to pass on a QB was based on the fact that we weren’t sold on any of the QB’s. I have a big problem if we passed on a QB we had rated as a franchise QB because we think that Eli can bring us another championship. My feeling is that they weren’t sold on any of the QB’s.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 8:24:39 GMT -5
Chosen Rosen was the guy to inevitably take the reigns from Eli sometime next year. We'd instantly be looking upward for a decade plus, with a QB to rival the Wentz' and Goffs, to go with our receiving talent. I'm a huge Eli homer but that was a no brainer imo. Already hearing rave reviews about his demeanor, knowledge, skill and work ethic from established vets like Patrick Peterson in Arizona. Excellent RBs are taken in the 3rd round or later regularly. Kareem Hunt and Alvin Kamara, versus Christian Mccaffrey for instance. The Bears RBs for example. Gettleman, and I'm a big fan of Getty, drafted McCaffrey too high. The last RB taken at #2 overall was Trent Richardson by the Browns. Who was the Head Coach of that team? Pat Shurmur. That's a concern as well. Everything I saw on the field from Rosen was amazing, quite frankly. It was a no brainer pick imo. Mark my words on this one.
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Post by ukgiantsfan on Jul 17, 2018 10:23:41 GMT -5
i didnt really like any of the5 top drafted QBs this year ........i absolutely loved Saquon ( and would have been fine with Chubb )
DG made the right call IMO
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Post by Parademon1 on Jul 17, 2018 13:40:38 GMT -5
DG is an ol school smashmouth type GM, IMO, he probably envisions Eli as being a smart game managing type QB his final 2 yrs in the NFL that will minimize mistakes that a rookie QB would make. Eli doesn't have to win a game solely with his arm anymore , he just has to move the chains with smart, efficient completions, keep the defense honest with a few deep throws to OBJ & feed SB the ball 17-20x a game & spread the ball amongst OBJ, Shep , Engram & let's not forget Gallman, I really think he's gonna play a role in the O this yr with the D so focused on SB. SB being in the backfield will force opposing Ds to respect the run game for the 1st time in 5 yrs. That is gonna open up so many other aspects of the passing attack that were not there these past 5 yrs. Seam routes to Engram will be there, the slants will be there for both OBJ/Shep, wheel routes to SB will be there. Winning the TOP will help the D be better rested come the 4th qt, it'll keep the other team's O sitting on the sidelines longer as well. Those of you crying for a QB will be singing SB's praises later this yr.
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Post by snyder55 on Jul 17, 2018 15:44:07 GMT -5
I think Barkley was a can't miss selection and I'm not sure any of the QBs had that distinction... Can't miss for?....3 years? 5 years? Hit on a QB and you have the most important position in all of sports locked up for 15 years.
if I had my way I would have traded the #2 pick for more picks but I don't know what kind of deals were offered to the Giants so my second choice there was Barkley...
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Post by EliQB10 on Jul 17, 2018 20:00:59 GMT -5
DG is an ol school smashmouth type GM, IMO, he probably envisions Eli as being a smart game managing type QB his final 2 yrs in the NFL that will minimize mistakes that a rookie QB would make. Eli doesn't have to win a game solely with his arm anymore , he just has to move the chains with smart, efficient completions, keep the defense honest with a few deep throws to OBJ & feed SB the ball 17-20x a game & spread the ball amongst OBJ, Shep , Engram & let's not forget Gallman, I really think he's gonna play a role in the O this yr with the D so focused on SB. SB being in the backfield will force opposing Ds to respect the run game for the 1st time in 5 yrs. That is gonna open up so many other aspects of the passing attack that were not there these past 5 yrs. Seam routes to Engram will be there, the slants will be there for both OBJ/Shep, wheel routes to SB will be there. Winning the TOP will help the D be better rested come the 4th qt, it'll keep the other team's O sitting on the sidelines longer as well. Those of you for a QB will be singing SB's praises later this yr. From your lips to God's ears...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 10:09:01 GMT -5
i didnt really like any of the5 top drafted QBs this year ........i absolutely loved Saquon ( and would have been fine with Chubb ) DG made the right call IMO How does anybody not like any of the top 5 QBs from last year? There was literally a prototypical styled QB for every known successful mold of QB. You had the athletic freak running phenom, the do-it-all golden boy, the cerebral and accurate pocket passing maestro, the big rocket-armed country stud, and the fiery rah-rah leader and productive winner. There was a guy for everybody and the majority of analysts, scouts, etc., even most fans, recognized this past draft class to be one of the best prospective QB classes to come around in a long time. If you didn't like any of them, you probably don't like football.
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Post by KingCap88 on Jul 18, 2018 10:09:36 GMT -5
I wanted the Giants to go for a QB, but I'm happy with Barkley. If Eli doesn't play well this season then Webb and Lauletta will get their shot or the Giants draft a first-round QB in 2019.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 18, 2018 10:15:22 GMT -5
i didnt really like any of the5 top drafted QBs this year ........i absolutely loved Saquon ( and would have been fine with Chubb ) DG made the right call IMO How does anybody not like any of the top 5 QBs from last year? There was literally a prototypical styled QB for every known successful mold of QB. You had the athletic freak running phenom, the do-it-all golden boy, the cerebral and accurate pocket passing maestro, the big rocket-armed country stud, and the fiery rah-rah leader and productive winner. There was a guy for everybody and the majority of analysts, scouts, etc., even most fans, recognized this past draft class to be one of the best prospective QB classes to come around in a long time. I didn’t see that at all. I read a lot of media vomit about them but that’s just lounge music designed to fill space. Neither I nor anyone else can be certain that all 5 QBs will be successful in the NFL despite the fanciful media descriptions and shills of the paid heads. It was certainly a good class of QBs as far as the number of QBs coming out at this point that’s all it is. I only liked one of them for the Giants, but I like football just fine. I guess I’m just not so quick to surrender my own view in the name of media noise.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 20:12:16 GMT -5
Are you being sarcastic Sarcasman? No one is ever "certain" that any player at all will be successful, that goes for Saquon Barkley as well. This QB class was a lot more than quantity of players at the position. The numbers Lamar Jackson and Baker Mayfield put up are phenomenal, and very rare. 2 Heisman winner right there. To have just the two of them in the same class makes it above average for your typical draft class, add the pedigree and pro-readiness of Darnold and Rosen, who together would make an above average QB class, and you have one of the better classes to come out in a long time. Then you have Allen, who's film and stats aren't great, but his measurables are absolutely off the charts, and he would be in a discussion for top overall pick in many other weaker drafts. Put them all together and it really was an epic draft class, prospectively. The numbers bear that out. Of course we will have to wait to find out for sure. The media hype went both ways, and the positive hype was mostly surrounding Darnold and Allen, whereas Rosen, Mayfield and Jackson got a lot of undeserving negative press.
P.S. - Don't take my word or the medias. 5 QBs taken in the 1st round, by real NFL GMs. 4 in the top 10 should tell you a lot.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 18, 2018 21:04:48 GMT -5
Are you being sarcastic Sarcasman? No one is ever "certain" that any player at all will be successful, that goes for Saquon Barkley as well. This QB class was a lot more than quantity of players at the position. The numbers Lamar Jackson and Baker Mayfield put up are phenomenal, and very rare. 2 Heisman winner right there. To have just the two of them in the same class makes it above average for your typical draft class, add the pedigree and pro-readiness of Darnold and Rosen, who together would make an above average QB class, and you have one of the better classes to come out in a long time. Then you have Allen, who's film and stats aren't great, but his measurables are absolutely off the charts, and he would be in a discussion for top overall pick in many other weaker drafts. Put them all together and it really was an epic draft class, prospectively. The numbers bear that out. Of course we will have to wait to find out for sure. The media hype went both ways, and the positive hype was mostly surrounding Darnold and Allen, whereas Rosen, Mayfield and Jackson got a lot of undeserving negative press. P.S. - Don't take my word or the medias. 5 QBs taken in the 1st round, by real NFL GMs. 4 in the top 10 should tell you a lot. I was not being facetious, although you were on solid ground with that view. I wouldn't mess with you just to mess with you, I don't know you well enough for that yet! I do believe that a couple of franchise QBs may come out of this class, but not 5. I also believe that a couple may be journeymen or out of the league before too long, also not 5. GMs miss on picks all the time; Heisman trophy winners go on to suck as pros, as you say, we can not be certain. It is certainly possible that I've been watching the game so long that I'm skeptical but I've seen more than enough of the aforementioned to not be so. There's no right or wrong here it's just a differing view. These certainly aren't deeply held beliefs of mine, just my gut feeling.
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 19, 2018 9:45:03 GMT -5
Well it's in the past and nothing can be done. We did not take a QB with the 2nd pick.
But if some or all of those guys we could have drafted become outstanding NFL QB's, and we are languishing in mediocrity with marginal QB play for years.....I am going to blame some of the people in that room.......and that I do not forgive.
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goldenratio
Special Teams
"Son, you all got to do better than this,"
Posts: 749
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Post by goldenratio on Jul 19, 2018 10:00:26 GMT -5
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Post by Miked1958 on Jul 19, 2018 13:22:10 GMT -5
I have to admit that as much as I believed we should have gone after a QB, I wanted us to take Barkley. And while I'm not totally comfortable that we passed on a QB, I think I would have felt similar passing on Barkley. I was not totally sold on any one of the QBs. So I was okay with grabbing the Best player available. Heard rumors that the only one the Giants might of considered if there was Mayfield. I guess we will never know because he went #1 overall. Will have to see how it all shakes out over next 5 years. But who knows we may of got our QB a few rounds later
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Post by TEM on Jul 19, 2018 17:53:43 GMT -5
Everyone of the QBs in this past class had a Red flag.
90 % of a QB is from the neck up . One lacked that
One was a concussion away from using a bib and a highchair.
One could not keep his cool.
One had ball control issues throwing the Football
One was a turnover machine
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 6:03:20 GMT -5
Everyone of the QBs in this past class had a Red flag. 90 % of a QB is from the neck up . One lacked that One was a concussion away from using a bib and a highchair. One could not keep his cool. One had ball control issues throwing the Football One was a turnover machine The Rosen concussion thing was blown so far out of proportion. He wouldn't even have started for another year unless Eli got hurt. Nobody is worried about Rosen's concussions in Arizona.
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Post by TEM on Jul 20, 2018 6:13:29 GMT -5
Everyone of the QBs in this past class had a Red flag. 90 % of a QB is from the neck up . One lacked that One was a concussion away from using a bib and a highchair. One could not keep his cool. One had ball control issues throwing the Football One was a turnover machine The Rosen concussion thing was blown so far out of proportion. He wouldn't even have started for another year unless Eli got hurt. Nobody is worried about Rosen's concussions in Arizona. IMO: it was not and was a serious red flag. As MH said a franchise QB is a 10-14 year player. The problem with concussions is; Once you start to get them . You are more likely to get more. How many is too many 3 , 5 10? I understand why some GMs passed on him.
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Post by TEM on Jul 20, 2018 6:13:49 GMT -5
The Rosen concussion thing was blown so far out of proportion. He wouldn't even have started for another year unless Eli got hurt. Nobody is worried about Rosen's concussions in Arizona. IMO: it was not and was a serious red flag. As MH said a franchise QB is a 10-14 year player. The problem with concussions is; Once you start to get them . You are more likely to get more. How many is too many 3 , 5 10? I understand why some GMs passed on him.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 6:16:33 GMT -5
Are you being sarcastic Sarcasman? No one is ever "certain" that any player at all will be successful, that goes for Saquon Barkley as well. This QB class was a lot more than quantity of players at the position. The numbers Lamar Jackson and Baker Mayfield put up are phenomenal, and very rare. 2 Heisman winner right there. To have just the two of them in the same class makes it above average for your typical draft class, add the pedigree and pro-readiness of Darnold and Rosen, who together would make an above average QB class, and you have one of the better classes to come out in a long time. Then you have Allen, who's film and stats aren't great, but his measurables are absolutely off the charts, and he would be in a discussion for top overall pick in many other weaker drafts. Put them all together and it really was an epic draft class, prospectively. The numbers bear that out. Of course we will have to wait to find out for sure. The media hype went both ways, and the positive hype was mostly surrounding Darnold and Allen, whereas Rosen, Mayfield and Jackson got a lot of undeserving negative press. P.S. - Don't take my word or the medias. 5 QBs taken in the 1st round, by real NFL GMs. 4 in the top 10 should tell you a lot. I was not being facetious, although you were on solid ground with that view. I wouldn't mess with you just to mess with you, I don't know you well enough for that yet! I do believe that a couple of franchise QBs may come out of this class, but not 5. I also believe that a couple may be journeymen or out of the league before too long, also not 5. GMs miss on picks all the time; Heisman trophy winners go on to suck as pros, as you say, we can not be certain. It is certainly possible that I've been watching the game so long that I'm skeptical but I've seen more than enough of the aforementioned to not be so. There's no right or wrong here it's just a differing view. These certainly aren't deeply held beliefs of mine, just my gut feeling. Oh I agree the chances of 5 out of 5 happening is slim. To be honest I could easily see Allen and Mayfield struggle and eventually bounce around the league, maybe Mayfield cuts out a career as a backup. I can see Darnold busting altogether, or he could be really solid, like a Stafford. Jackson is pure boom or bust. The hit-or-miss aspect surrounds every prospect. The guy I wanted though, was Rosen. I don't see a bust at all. I see a top 5 QB for the next decade, only possible thing that can infringe on that is injury, like Aaron Rodgers, and if he Romo'd it wouldn't be until he's older. He was 100% the guy above all other prospects on the board, even a trade up to get the two next best prospects, that's how highly graded I had Rosen.
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