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Post by Jomo on Sept 18, 2020 14:21:38 GMT -5
Are we going to down grade their lunch plan? point is that there are other ways to hold players accountable. Ultimately if you dont get the job done the you go down the rungs on the depth chart. Other than less playing time, which is "benching light" what other form of accountability are you thinking of? I am honestly just curious. My comment about the meal plan was in gest (as I often do) but are you thinking about more time in the film room, running laps. I am at a loss on the accountability thing with football players. Do we dress them down in front of the team while watch game films? These all seem amateurish to me and I can't come up with a single form of accountability for bad play other than less time on the field or no time on the field.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 18, 2020 14:27:11 GMT -5
point is that there are other ways to hold players accountable. Ultimately if you dont get the job done the you go down the rungs on the depth chart. Other than less playing time, which is "benching light" what other form of accountability are you thinking of? I am honestly just curious. My comment about the meal plan was in gest (as I often do) but are you thinking about more time in the film room, running laps. I am at a loss on the accountability thing with football players. Do we dress them down in front of the team while watch game films? Its not about punishment at this point for some. Like Gates for example. Like you said in the film...."Hey Gates.....you see this pay right here. You messed it up bad. Show me what you did wrong? Do you even know what you did wrong"........Some thing like that. QBs mess up every week and they start the week after. Accountability is admitting you messed up and working to not do it again. A player being coach-able and not making excuses for when they mess up.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 14:50:25 GMT -5
Engram is gone before October IMO. The OL will be shuffled around the next couple of weeks. Only 2 guys you can shuffle. The other 3 positions are pencilled in
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Post by Jomo on Sept 18, 2020 15:02:38 GMT -5
Other than less playing time, which is "benching light" what other form of accountability are you thinking of? I am honestly just curious. My comment about the meal plan was in gest (as I often do) but are you thinking about more time in the film room, running laps. I am at a loss on the accountability thing with football players. Do we dress them down in front of the team while watch game films? Its not about punishment at this point for some. Like Gates for example. Like you said in the film...."Hey Gates.....you see this pay right here. You messed it up bad. Show me what you did wrong? Do you even know what you did wrong"........Some thing like that. QBs mess up every week and they start the week after. Accountability is admitting you messed up and working to not do it again. A player being coach-able and not making excuses for when they mess up. OK, I get it GT. The original question asked if we thought the players would (actually) be held accountable. We'll never know what goes on in those film sessions as fans. I guess if they have impact we might see evidence of it. I was thinking more short term like this week. Will we see less playing time for Engram or will Peart be slotted in a bit. I trust Judge much more in this regard than either McAdoo or Surmur.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 15:02:52 GMT -5
We have the depth at certain positions to make changes. I don’t think anyone will be benched going into game 2, but at some point this HC knows he’ll lose credibility if he keeps publicly defending his players without seeing the results on the field. RT and corner number 2 would right now could be in play Ballentine did nothing to warrant any a hot seat,in fact other than a few plays at the end of the game you didn't even know he was on the field (which is a good thing for a young corner making his first start on the outside) Flemming...that leash got really short quickly Cam Fleming is the best RT this organization could find the entire offseason. The Scouting department couldn’t find anyone better who was available. No one in FA was better then Fleming. That’s obviously why he is starting right? It’s hard to be believe that he was the best we could get. Imagine how bad the depth chart behind him must be
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 15:05:06 GMT -5
point is that there are other ways to hold players accountable. Ultimately if you dont get the job done the you go down the rungs on the depth chart. Other than less playing time, which is "benching light" what other form of accountability are you thinking of? I am honestly just curious. My comment about the meal plan was in gest (as I often do) but are you thinking about more time in the film room, running laps. I am at a loss on the accountability thing with football players. Do we dress them down in front of the team while watch game films? These all seem amateurish to me and I can't come up with a single form of accountability for bad play other than less time on the field or no time on the field. I think he wants them beaten in front of their peers. Or water boarded. Something along those lines. That’s what I got from it anyway
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Post by McCherry on Sept 18, 2020 15:12:52 GMT -5
RT and corner number 2 would right now could be in play Ballentine did nothing to warrant any a hot seat,in fact other than a few plays at the end of the game you didn't even know he was on the field (which is a good thing for a young corner making his first start on the outside) Flemming...that leash got really short quickly Cam Fleming is the best RT this organization could find the entire offseason. The Scouting department couldn’t find anyone better who was available. No one in FA was better then Fleming. That’s obviously why he is starting right? It’s hard to be believe that he was the best we could get. Imagine how bad the depth chart behind him must be Flemming lined up against T.J. Watt all night and gave up 1 tackle.
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Post by Jomo on Sept 18, 2020 15:13:44 GMT -5
The thing with accountability is that the softer stuff, other than benching, is best done in ways that will be invisible to us in the short term. We will know whether the behind the scenes stuff (to the fans) will be impactful based on performance in the next few weeks.
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Post by Parademon1 on Sept 18, 2020 15:14:53 GMT -5
If you can't be relied on to be responsible for your actions on a week to week basis & continue to repeat them, then you are not someone that a HC, coaching staff & teammates can rely on to be reliable & have to be replaced. Had TC & Reese held Flowers accountable, he woulda been benched in yr 2 & traded either that yr or in yr 3 when he was still worth a #3 at least. TC was quick to bench David Wilson after fumbling in his 1st NFL start due to not being "accountable" to hold on to the ball, yet they didn't hold Flowers "accountable for his yrs of being unaccountable.
A player's draft status should not determine who get's more chances to screw up & cost the team games, if you show that you can't be accountable for your actions, you should lose your job just like you would in the real world. If a player can't handle getting criticized by his HC or coaches , then he is thin skinned & has no business being in the NFL. You deal with both praise & Critique, not just one. If Judge is gonna sugar coat his criticism of a players lackluster performance for fear of hurting his little feelings, then I don't want that guy as the HC of the NY Giants.
Parcells embarrassed the OL after the 13yd rushing effort vs SF & called them "club 13" the rest of the yr & going into that playoff game rematch vs SF, they responded by rushing for over 216yds.
Today's players would probably be all butthurt if a HC ragged on them like that.
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Post by lt56 on Sept 18, 2020 15:15:12 GMT -5
Zeitler and Fleming was awful on that right side
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Post by Jomo on Sept 18, 2020 15:16:19 GMT -5
Zeitler and Fleming was awful on that right side Yes they were.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 18, 2020 15:49:05 GMT -5
Its not about punishment at this point for some. Like Gates for example. Like you said in the film...."Hey Gates.....you see this pay right here. You messed it up bad. Show me what you did wrong? Do you even know what you did wrong"........Some thing like that. QBs mess up every week and they start the week after. Accountability is admitting you messed up and working to not do it again. A player being coach-able and not making excuses for when they mess up. OK, I get it GT. The original question asked if we thought the players would (actually) be held accountable. We'll never know what goes on in those film sessions as fans. I guess if they have impact we might see evidence of it. I was thinking more short term like this week. Will we see less playing time for Engram or will Peart be slotted in a bit. I trust Judge much more in this regard than either McAdoo or Surmur. Judge says they will be looking at film "critically"... I trust Judge as well.
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 18, 2020 15:49:47 GMT -5
Judge came in here preaching "accountability" as one of his mantras. There were some guys who played piss poor on Monday night (Engram, Fleming). Anyone think that these turds will actually be held "accountable"? Engram played terrible. However, the coaches need to be accountable as to how they're using him. IMO Engram is a wide receiver playing the TE position and is struggling at it...
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Post by Jomo on Sept 19, 2020 8:03:43 GMT -5
It is such a murky term, "accountability" making it pretty much useless. From a search in Google:
What is the meaning of accountability? Accountability is the obligation to explain, justify, and take responsibility for one's actions. Accountability is the state of being accountable, meaning responsible for something or obligated to answer to someone, such as a person with more authority, like a boss.
It is totally disconnected from fixing anything.
For me it is a throwaway word meant to sound like something useful is actually happening.
Rather than saying we are going to hold people accountable, I would much rather hear a coach say, "we are going to fix these issues one way or another."
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Post by GameTime on Sept 19, 2020 8:14:45 GMT -5
It is such a murky term, "accountability" making it pretty much useless. From a search in Google: What is the meaning of accountability? Accountability is the obligation to explain, justify, and take responsibility for one's actions. Accountability is the state of being accountable, meaning responsible for something or obligated to answer to someone, such as a person with more authority, like a boss.It is totally disconnected from fixing anything. For me it is a throwaway word meant to sound like something useful is actually happening. Rather than saying we are going to hold people accountable, I would much rather hear a coach say, "we are going to fix these issues one way or another." In sports you assume being held "accountable" is holding the fact that you made mistakes and will work to correct. No one is pulling out a dictionary and saying.."Hey coach...I just have to admit I made mistakes but I dont really have to fix anything".... Below is what Judge said in one interview which relates to your concern Q: Win or lose, this is going to be your first day after. Sunday, Monday, whatever it is, Tuesday. When you look at it, how are you going to balance between breaking the team down and criticizing them when they perform badly, building them back up, encouragement versus laying down the law? Are you going to publicly criticize players, because you really have not done that much or at all?
A: To be honest with you, I think it's my job to support the players. I think it's our job internally to make corrections and adjustments that are necessary. But I don't think you're going to see too much different from me than you've seen already, if that kind of paints a little bit of a picture for you. I kind of am who I am every day. But internally, we'll address things always. We're going to be very blunt and honest. We're very transparent in this organization, and we'll always be very direct with what we have to do to correct it. That being said, I'd say on a weekly basis, that will always be a little different. Sometimes a team needs some encouraging, sometimes they need a 'come to Jesus' meeting. Whatever each week calls for, that's what we're going to go ahead and have. I think that no matter what tone you do it in, it's always about teaching. Players don't go out there and intentionally make mistakes. They don't go out there and intentionally screw up. Whatever tone it requires to get the message across, we better be teaching them so that when they leave that meeting, it's clear in how they have to improve and what they have to correct going forward. That to me is the emphasis for myself and every coach on this staff.
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Post by McCherry on Sept 19, 2020 8:36:58 GMT -5
It is such a murky term, "accountability" making it pretty much useless. From a search in Google: What is the meaning of accountability? Accountability is the obligation to explain, justify, and take responsibility for one's actions. Accountability is the state of being accountable, meaning responsible for something or obligated to answer to someone, such as a person with more authority, like a boss.It is totally disconnected from fixing anything. For me it is a throwaway word meant to sound like something useful is actually happening. Rather than saying we are going to hold people accountable, I would much rather hear a coach say, "we are going to fix these issues one way or another." You obviously don't understand the definition of the term even when it's clearly explained to you.
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Post by ocgiant on Sept 19, 2020 9:50:27 GMT -5
I would not over think it since the Giants are not a very good football team and Pittsburgh got better as the game went on while the Giants weaknesses were exposed
I would trust the players know what accountability means at this point. If they do not then this team is in worst shape than we know
The secondary needs time playing together, LBs & DL, I actually felt for the first time in a long time some confidence in their play
OL needs to find a center, unless there is a better option, give the OL a week of run blocking practice and see what happens
Engram I'd put him at receiver at this point what do the Giants have to lose?
Special Teams liked what I saw maybe Peppers can bust one open
If the Giants can improve upon last week's play, limit mistakes and get SB contributing there's chance to pull out a W
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Post by Jomo on Sept 19, 2020 10:35:35 GMT -5
It is such a murky term, "accountability" making it pretty much useless. From a search in Google: What is the meaning of accountability? Accountability is the obligation to explain, justify, and take responsibility for one's actions. Accountability is the state of being accountable, meaning responsible for something or obligated to answer to someone, such as a person with more authority, like a boss.It is totally disconnected from fixing anything. For me it is a throwaway word meant to sound like something useful is actually happening. Rather than saying we are going to hold people accountable, I would much rather hear a coach say, "we are going to fix these issues one way or another." In sports you assume being held "accountable" is holding the fact that you made mistakes and will work to correct. No one is pulling out a dictionary and saying.."Hey coach...I just have to admit I made mistakes but I dont really have to fix anything".... Q: Win or lose, this is going to be your first day after. Sunday, Monday, whatever it is, Tuesday. When you look at it, how are you going to balance between breaking the team down and criticizing them when they perform badly, building them back up, encouragement versus laying down the law? Are you going to publicly criticize players, because you really have not done that much or at all?
A: To be honest with you, I think it's my job to support the players. I think it's our job internally to make corrections and adjustments that are necessary. But I don't think you're going to see too much different from me than you've seen already, if that kind of paints a little bit of a picture for you. I kind of am who I am every day. But internally, we'll address things always. We're going to be very blunt and honest. We're very transparent in this organization, and we'll always be very direct with what we have to do to correct it. That being said, I'd say on a weekly basis, that will always be a little different. Sometimes a team needs some encouraging, sometimes they need a 'come to Jesus' meeting. Whatever each week calls for, that's what we're going to go ahead and have. I think that no matter what tone you do it in, it's always about teaching. Players don't go out there and intentionally make mistakes. They don't go out there and intentionally screw up. Whatever tone it requires to get the message across, we better be teaching them so that when they leave that meeting, it's clear in how they have to improve and what they have to correct going forward. That to me is the emphasis for myself and every coach on this staff.
Yes, thanks for putting that up. Judge's response is exactly as it should be and I trust he is doing what needs to be done. He didn't use a throw away word to dodge the issue. He was granular in describing the process. Perfect response actually. It also matches up pretty well with the last line of my previous post: "we are going to fix these issues one way or another." Without action, "accountability" is just a safe space word which someone can hide behind.
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Post by Zimonami on Sept 19, 2020 11:05:36 GMT -5
"To be honest with you, I think it's my job to support the players," Judge said. "I think it's our job internally to make corrections and adjustments that are necessary. But I don't think you're going to see too much different from me than you've seen already, if that kind of paints a little bit of a picture for you. I kind of am who I am every day. But internally, we'll address things always. We're going to be very blunt and honest. We're very transparent in this organization, and we'll always be very direct with what we have to do to correct it." www.giants.com/news/joe-judge-offensive-line-andrew-thomas-nick-gates-cam-fleming-steelers-week-oneThe key word here is, 'internally'. We might never know if he reams anyone out, and that is exactly the way it needs to be. When players see their coach criticizing them to the press/in public, he won't have their respect for long. Would anyone like their boss reaming them out in front of everyone else in the office? it's one game, and already people are worrying about whether or not JJ will hold players accountable. It's something I don't even think about, because it is none of our business. If we can see poor play, so can he and his coaches. They'll do what they deem best.
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Post by Jomo on Sept 19, 2020 12:23:50 GMT -5
"To be honest with you, I think it's my job to support the players," Judge said. "I think it's our job internally to make corrections and adjustments that are necessary. But I don't think you're going to see too much different from me than you've seen already, if that kind of paints a little bit of a picture for you. I kind of am who I am every day. But internally, we'll address things always. We're going to be very blunt and honest. We're very transparent in this organization, and we'll always be very direct with what we have to do to correct it." www.giants.com/news/joe-judge-offensive-line-andrew-thomas-nick-gates-cam-fleming-steelers-week-oneThe key word here is, 'internally'. We might never know if he reams anyone out, and that is exactly the way it needs to be. When players see their coach criticizing them to the press/in public, he won't have their respect for long. Would anyone like their boss reaming them out in front of everyone else in the office? it's one game, and already people are worrying about whether or not JJ will hold players accountable. It's something I don't even think about, because it is none of our business. If we can see poor play, so can he and his coaches. They'll do what they deem best. Right on point Zim.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 20, 2020 6:39:03 GMT -5
In sports you assume being held "accountable" is holding the fact that you made mistakes and will work to correct. No one is pulling out a dictionary and saying.."Hey coach...I just have to admit I made mistakes but I dont really have to fix anything".... Q: Win or lose, this is going to be your first day after. Sunday, Monday, whatever it is, Tuesday. When you look at it, how are you going to balance between breaking the team down and criticizing them when they perform badly, building them back up, encouragement versus laying down the law? Are you going to publicly criticize players, because you really have not done that much or at all?
A: To be honest with you, I think it's my job to support the players. I think it's our job internally to make corrections and adjustments that are necessary. But I don't think you're going to see too much different from me than you've seen already, if that kind of paints a little bit of a picture for you. I kind of am who I am every day. But internally, we'll address things always. We're going to be very blunt and honest. We're very transparent in this organization, and we'll always be very direct with what we have to do to correct it. That being said, I'd say on a weekly basis, that will always be a little different. Sometimes a team needs some encouraging, sometimes they need a 'come to Jesus' meeting. Whatever each week calls for, that's what we're going to go ahead and have. I think that no matter what tone you do it in, it's always about teaching. Players don't go out there and intentionally make mistakes. They don't go out there and intentionally screw up. Whatever tone it requires to get the message across, we better be teaching them so that when they leave that meeting, it's clear in how they have to improve and what they have to correct going forward. That to me is the emphasis for myself and every coach on this staff.
Yes, thanks for putting that up. Judge's response is exactly as it should be and I trust he is doing what needs to be done. He didn't use a throw away word to dodge the issue. He was granular in describing the process. Perfect response actually. It also matches up pretty well with the last line of my previous post: "we are going to fix these issues one way or another."Without action, "accountability" is just a safe space word which someone can hide behind. thats why I posted it to you. Seemed like what you wanted....
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Post by GameTime on Sept 20, 2020 6:42:19 GMT -5
"To be honest with you, I think it's my job to support the players," Judge said. "I think it's our job internally to make corrections and adjustments that are necessary. But I don't think you're going to see too much different from me than you've seen already, if that kind of paints a little bit of a picture for you. I kind of am who I am every day. But internally, we'll address things always. We're going to be very blunt and honest. We're very transparent in this organization, and we'll always be very direct with what we have to do to correct it." www.giants.com/news/joe-judge-offensive-line-andrew-thomas-nick-gates-cam-fleming-steelers-week-oneThe key word here is, 'internally'. We might never know if he reams anyone out, and that is exactly the way it needs to be. When players see their coach criticizing them to the press/in public, he won't have their respect for long. Would anyone like their boss reaming them out in front of everyone else in the office? it's one game, and already people are worrying about whether or not JJ will hold players accountable. It's something I don't even think about, because it is none of our business. If we can see poor play, so can he and his coaches. They'll do what they deem best. Judge has done that from day one it seems. Keeping thing internal that need to be. But open with other key elements
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