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Post by Kruunch on Nov 29, 2020 11:22:49 GMT -5
Comparing our success over the last 40 years to Detroit was not the point. We have won 4 Super Bowls to their 0. We all know that. And so what they have 4 Fords in their front office. Most family owned businesses do. We have 3. I’m sure Pittsburg has a few. Look at their hires over the last 35 years. All retreads or men who had no business being a head coach. And let’s go deeper, how many franchise quarterbacks has this franchise had? Besides Matthew Stafford who have they had? Rodney Peete? Eric Kramer? Not exactly the quarterbacks I would want with my franchise. You changed your point. You said they were hands off owners. That is what I was responding to. I never implied that ownership is not involved. They always are to some degree. What I am saying is ; when ownership is hands on and F the organization up and fail to acknowledge that. What you end up with is the Lions, Jets Browns. At some point if the same revolving door keeps spinning. There is more going on than just the GM and HC. All the teams with multiple wins without an ownership change ( Was) after the wins all have a commonality . They do not overly extend blame to the GM of HC. Tim and Wellington realized they were the problem. That root problem was fixed. The result 5 appearances and 4 wins. I never changed my point. The Fords aren’t the Jones or Snyder’s of this league. They make their hires and let the men they hire do their jobs. Look, the Ford family isn’t in the conversation of best owners in professional football. But, to lay blame on them is not true. Bad hires, bad drafts, just overall bad work from this franchise. You need a lot of things to go right to be successful in this league. Ownership, general manager and head coach. All 3 have to work as one. If one of them doesn’t, the chain breaks. The best franchises understand this better than anyone. Wasn’t it Pete Rozelle who realized their was a problem, and intervened? That’s when George Young was hired and the rest was history. |
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Post by TEM on Nov 29, 2020 11:34:20 GMT -5
You changed your point. You said they were hands off owners. That is what I was responding to. I never implied that ownership is not involved. They always are to some degree. What I am saying is ; when ownership is hands on and F the organization up and fail to acknowledge that. What you end up with is the Lions, Jets Browns. At some point if the same revolving door keeps spinning. There is more going on than just the GM and HC. All the teams with multiple wins without an ownership change ( Was) after the wins all have a commonality . They do not overly extend blame to the GM of HC. Tim and Wellington realized they were the problem. That root problem was fixed. The result 5 appearances and 4 wins. I never changed my point. The Fords aren’t the Jones or Snyder’s of this league. They make their hires and let the men they hire do their jobs. Look, the Ford family isn’t in the conversation of best owners in professional football. But, to lay blame on them is not true. Bad hires, bad drafts, just overall bad work from this franchise. You need a lot of things to go right to be successful in this league. Ownership, general manager and head coach. All 3 have to work as one. If one of them doesn’t, the chain breaks. The best franchises understand this better than anyone. Wasn’t it Pete Rozelle who realized their was a problem, and intervened? That’s when George Young was hired and the rest was history. The Maras had to acknowledge the problem . Teams that are perpetual losers don't. I will see it that way until some teams proves they can win multiples by changing the HC or the GM when the wind blows the wrong way. |
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 29, 2020 11:36:31 GMT -5
I never changed my point. The Fords aren’t the Jones or Snyder’s of this league. They make their hires and let the men they hire do their jobs. Look, the Ford family isn’t in the conversation of best owners in professional football. But, to lay blame on them is not true. Bad hires, bad drafts, just overall bad work from this franchise. You need a lot of things to go right to be successful in this league. Ownership, general manager and head coach. All 3 have to work as one. If one of them doesn’t, the chain breaks. The best franchises understand this better than anyone. Wasn’t it Pete Rozelle who realized their was a problem, and intervened? That’s when George Young was hired and the rest was history. The Maras had to acknowledge the problem . Teams that are perpetual losers don't. I will see it that way until some teams proves they can win multiples by changing the HC or the GM when the wind blows the wrong way. You make it sound so easy.. Want to throw your hat into the ring? |
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Post by TEM on Nov 29, 2020 12:21:04 GMT -5
The Maras had to acknowledge the problem . Teams that are perpetual losers don't. I will see it that way until some teams proves they can win multiples by changing the HC or the GM when the wind blows the wrong way. You make it sound so easy.. Want to throw your hat into the ring? Not easy just going with what the league has proven. The evidence shows . Having a policy the fires the GM and HC every 2 -4 years does not produce the desired results. |
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 29, 2020 12:26:04 GMT -5
You make it sound so easy.. Want to throw your hat into the ring? Not easy just going with what the league has proven. The evidence shows . Having a policy the fires the GM and HC every 2 -4 years does not produce the desired results. Aren’t we in that same boat? We have our 3rd head coach in 4 years. And our 2nd GM in 3.. And, depending on this year and next we could be on our 3rd GM.. |
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Post by TEM on Nov 29, 2020 12:32:39 GMT -5
Not easy just going with what the league has proven. The evidence shows . Having a policy the fires the GM and HC every 2 -4 years does not produce the desired results. Aren’t we in that same boat? We have our 3rd head coach in 4 years. And our 2nd GM in 3.. And, depending on this year and next we could be on our 3rd GM.. I have been making that point all season with the fire DG talk. .This needs to be able to play out with JJ and DJ for 2 or 4 more seasons. |
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 29, 2020 12:36:19 GMT -5
Aren’t we in that same boat? We have our 3rd head coach in 4 years. And our 2nd GM in 3.. And, depending on this year and next we could be on our 3rd GM.. I have been making that point all season with the fire DG talk. .This needs to be able to play out with JJ and DJ for 2 or 4 more seasons. You also said we should have kept Shurmur for another year. I get what you’re saying, but it comes to a point results matter. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Nov 29, 2020 12:42:26 GMT -5
I thought Patricia had the best shot of Belichik asst. to succeed. Now I guess it will have to be Judge. Thought Patricia was going to build a dominant defense in Detroit. The only thing I don't understand these teams that make big moves this time of year. Any interim coach can't put anything new in to improve the team the last 5-6 weeks of the season. Are they really getting any kind of jump on a new hire candidate ? My answer is NO ! Varabel is good in Tennessee think I butchered his name tho. I forgot about Mike (notice I went first name). Good Judge reminds me of Mike, a tough no nonsense guy. Don't remember the name of coach in Miami but he might be a Belechik guy, not sure. Never liked Weiss or McDaniel. Was worried when McDaniels name was mentioned as a Giant candidate. |
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Post by TEM on Nov 29, 2020 12:42:33 GMT -5
I have been making that point all season with the fire DG talk. .This needs to be able to play out with JJ and DJ for 2 or 4 more seasons. You also said we should have kept Shurmur for another year. I get what you’re saying, but it comes to a point results matter. I wanted to keep Shurmur because of DJ development . He struggled in the first half of the season. It seems some of that has been resolved, We will know more in the upcoming weeks. As far as results I believe they will come with being patience. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 29, 2020 12:55:22 GMT -5
Varabel is good in Tennessee think I butchered his name tho. I forgot about Mike (notice I went first name). Good Judge reminds me of Mike, a tough no nonsense guy. Don't remember the name of coach in Miami but he might be a Belechik guy, not sure. Never liked Weiss or McDaniel. Was worried when McDaniels name was mentioned as a Giant candidate. Yea he is. Flores is his name I compared them and their trajectory to ours last year second half the Dolphins started playing tough and winning games culminating in beating the Pats final game when they needed it for seeding. Forgot about him to and I was comparing his team and ours Brian Flores. |
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 29, 2020 21:10:07 GMT -5
Wasn’t it Pete Rozelle who realized their was a problem, and intervened? That’s when George Young was hired and the rest is history. No , everyone knew there was a problem . Pete Rozelle came up with the fix. Everyone knew it was a problem, but yet they did nothing to fix it? Rozelle, forced the Giants hand. If not for him stepping in, the Mara’s would have continued the bickering. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 30, 2020 20:59:50 GMT -5
fingers crossed but thus far looks like Judge is breaking away from the typical post-bellichick coaching fail He is 4-7 lol Slow down there killer. Bill Obrien was pretty good until he tried to be the GM. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 30, 2020 21:02:02 GMT -5
I thought Patricia had the best shot of Belichik asst. to succeed. Now I guess it will have to be Judge. Thought Patricia was going to build a dominant defense in Detroit. The only thing I don't understand these teams that make big moves this time of year. Any interim coach can't put anything new in to improve the team the last 5-6 weeks of the season. Are they really getting any kind of jump on a new hire candidate ? My answer is NO ! Varabel is good in Tennessee think I butchered his name tho. Vrabel was a player under Belichick not a coach. He isnt under the Belichick umbrella of coaches. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 30, 2020 21:10:23 GMT -5
Varabel is good in Tennessee think I butchered his name tho. Vrabel was a player under Belichick not a coach. He isnt under the Belichick umbrella of coaches. Thought he coached for a couple years with BB before he got the gig with Tennessee if not it was a risky hire that payed off. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 30, 2020 21:11:40 GMT -5
Vrabel was a player under Belichick not a coach. He isnt under the Belichick umbrella of coaches. Thought he coached for a couple years with BB before he got the gig with Tennessee if not it was a risky hire that payed off. He did not. He coached under Bill Obrien in Houston. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 30, 2020 21:17:03 GMT -5
Thought he coached for a couple years with BB before he got the gig with Tennessee if not it was a risky hire that payed off. He did not. He coached under Bill Obrien in Houston. AH-HA tricky so he would be second generation BB tree type guy. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 30, 2020 21:21:03 GMT -5
Thought he coached for a couple years with BB before he got the gig with Tennessee if not it was a risky hire that payed off. He did not. He coached under Bill Obrien in Houston. Good to know I didn't realize he spent 3 years at Ohio ST as LB and DL coach before heading to Houston. |
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