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Post by McCherry on Dec 31, 2020 19:07:07 GMT -5
You have to keep him and possibly extend him one year to lower next year salary cap #. No sure I understand/agree with the current role for Hernandez as he was never as bad as Lemieux has been in pass protection. Obviously the coaches see something I don't but Lemieux is terrible imho. I heard something about Hernandez possibly could still be struggling with post-covid symptoms. I had fatigue for 2 months, I couldn't imagine blocking anybody, but if I were healthy, hell yeah.
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Post by krappdetector on Dec 31, 2020 20:45:24 GMT -5
He's in top 6 of guards great in Pass pro he is by far our best OL and has a fantastic work ethic to spread throughout our young OL. The money is appetizing but he might be our second bast palyer on the offensive side of the ball. ARIS said it better. I'll say it again... Nelson/Chubb vs Barkley/Hernandez Per PFF... (and general eyeball test): "At left guard, Quenton Nelson is among the best guards in the league and is already making his mark as one of the top overall players in the NFL after two outstanding seasons to start his career. Nelson had the No. 2 run-blocking grade and the No. 7 pass-blocking grade in 2019, as his combination of power, quickness and technique have him on a Hall-of-Fame path despite entering just his third NFL season." We should not even be having this discussion if the rebuild commenced properly in 2018. But here we are.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2020 21:07:34 GMT -5
The real question is.. how would Chubb look running behind Nelson and the rest of our OLine vs. How Barkley would look behind the Browns OLine. Once you ask that question the outlook changes dramatically.
A LG & RB doesn't change things without proper tackle help imo. Flowers, Hart & Nelson doesn't alter the NFL at all.
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 31, 2020 21:15:24 GMT -5
The real question is.. how would Chubb look running behind Williams and the rest of our OLine vs. How Barkley would look behind the Browns OLine. Once you ask that question the outlook changes dramatically. A LG & RB doesn't change things without proper tackle help imo. Flowers, Hart & Williams doesn't alter the NFL at all. Williams?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2020 21:19:05 GMT -5
The real question is.. how would Chubb look running behind Williams and the rest of our OLine vs. How Barkley would look behind the Browns OLine. Once you ask that question the outlook changes dramatically. A LG & RB doesn't change things without proper tackle help imo. Flowers, Hart & Williams doesn't alter the NFL at all. Williams? Nelson** fixed it 😅
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Post by fifthavephil on Dec 31, 2020 21:41:59 GMT -5
He has $34 million reasons not to retire. He opted out this year, next year he could very well be ready to play. He’s preparing for an NFL season, not going into outer space. He might want a couple more years now that he will be healthy, Probably the best the guy has felt the last 5 years. He might be a solid piece at RT if he decides to play and the Giants decide to keep him. Giants, will try to move Solder. The Rams Andrew Whitworth ( 39 years old) had a short season. Due to knee surgery and may retire. Solder will be a good fit.
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Post by Deplorable on Dec 31, 2020 21:53:22 GMT -5
Losing weight is one thing, these guys are trained to put weight on fast. The real indication will be his family. He has made a lot of money in his career, is he happy being home with his family? Or does he want to get back out there? Not many people turn down that kind of money. If he does, he’s a better man than most. Kind of what I was getting at with seeing the video with he and his family. No doubt the money is very significant. We shall see "with HIM and his family", not "with HE and his family".
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Post by TCHOF on Dec 31, 2020 22:35:16 GMT -5
Kind of what I was getting at with seeing the video with he and his family. No doubt the money is very significant. We shall see "with HIM and his family", not "with HE and his family". Happy Douchey New Year!
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 31, 2020 23:56:35 GMT -5
He might want a couple more years now that he will be healthy, Probably the best the guy has felt the last 5 years. He might be a solid piece at RT if he decides to play and the Giants decide to keep him. Giants, will try to move Solder. The Rams Andrew Whitworth ( 39 years old) had a short season. Due to knee surgery and may retire. Solder will be a good fit. That would be a good deal for both Giants probably have to eat some of he salary.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 1, 2021 0:02:08 GMT -5
He's in top 6 of guards great in Pass pro he is by far our best OL and has a fantastic work ethic to spread throughout our young OL. The money is appetizing but he might be our second bast palyer on the offensive side of the ball. ARIS said it better. I'll say it again... Nelson/Chubb vs Barkley/Hernandez Per PFF... (and general eyeball test): "At left guard, Quenton Nelson is among the best guards in the league and is already making his mark as one of the top overall players in the NFL after two outstanding seasons to start his career. Nelson had the No. 2 run-blocking grade and the No. 7 pass-blocking grade in 2019, as his combination of power, quickness and technique have him on a Hall-of-Fame path despite entering just his third NFL season." We should not even be having this discussion if the rebuild commenced properly in 2018. But here we are.I don't even know WTF your talking about this was in response tozietler and was about zeitler. Had nothing to do with Hernandez Bakely Chubb or Nelson
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 5:49:52 GMT -5
The real question is.. how would Chubb look running behind Nelson and the rest of our OLine vs. How Barkley would look behind the Browns OLine. Once you ask that question the outlook changes dramatically. A LG & RB doesn't change things without proper tackle help imo. Flowers, Hart & Nelson doesn't alter the NFL at all. I thought, and I could be wrong...but didn't we sign Solder at that time?... and believed he was the answer to the LT spot? Flowers played, and if I recall he was benched, as right tackle? The ending of the Flowers as tackle experiment? I'd have to look it all up, but Barkley had a great rookie season...but unless I am going senile, Solder and Hernandez were on the left side? Greco, Wheeler, Pulley and Patrick Ohameh were all shuffled around as well. Somebody please help on this. I believe Jamon Brown was also on that OL later in the year?.. and actually played very well. Where are my reading glasses?...oh crap, on top of my head. I only put this up there for the comparisons we were all having during that important 2 overall draft year with an older Eli, a bunch of then unknown how good they would be in the NFL QB's with good scouting reports, and that being the argument...horse before carriage over and over. Personally, any running back would of been the last thing on my mind...I don't play fantasy football, and know, as you should as a well paid employee of PFF, the OL and play calling makes and breaks any gifted running back. I was all in on Nelson that year. The arguments were strong at the time, to rebuild... or give Eli more, more...more. That was in many fans eyes, the time to begin to rebuild, and with a rebuild you start in the trenches, and QB...not running back. Oh, Chubb and Barkley require completely different blocking schemes as they are completely different runners. As an ex player who padded it all up, you should know this....and why Hernandez and his gap/man blocking seemed an odd pick to me at the time for a zone blocking scheme needed for Barkley's style running. At pick 2, IMHO, we should have taken a QB to sit behind Eli a year, but that argument is sort of played out, as is the running back at 2 pick. That said, it is what it is...and we move forward, and pray to sweet Jesus himself we don't sign Barkley, a running back, to his second contract.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 9:36:20 GMT -5
I have been saying they should keep him over signing 2 DTs to big money and don't be surprised if Solder is the RT for next season..
It would be great if they could score an equal FA guard for half Zeitler's money or a RT for that 6 millionish they will have to pay Solder but to think both of these 3rd day rookies are going to become solid players at this point is too big a risk for my tastes..
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 1, 2021 9:39:54 GMT -5
Kind of what I was getting at with seeing the video with he and his family. No doubt the money is very significant. We shall see "with HIM and his family", not "with HE and his family". you need to stop grading papers for grammar, this isn't the classroom...
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katcavage75
Special Teams
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.- Vince Lombardi
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Post by katcavage75 on Jan 1, 2021 13:12:49 GMT -5
KZ is our best Olineman. Keep him at his present contract for 2021. If healthy the Giants can redo his deal next year. Sometimes best to wait and see.
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Post by Jomo on Jan 2, 2021 9:05:38 GMT -5
Wonder if solder can play og? Pretty sure we'll be stuck with him, if he's versitile could add to his value. I don’t think he ever played the position. Is there guards who are 6’8”? I think we’re stuck with him, yeah we can cut him and take the cap hit. But, is that what the Giants want to do? I would not be shocked they want to keep him as an extremely expensive backup. I thought we were going to be out of cap jail with Solder next year, could be wrong but he needs to go. He lost his heart to compete the way we need him to perhaps before he even arrived here. I'd love him as a neighbor, but not on my roster.
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 2, 2021 9:27:39 GMT -5
I think we have all seen Solder take his last snap as a Giant.
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 2, 2021 9:29:39 GMT -5
I don’t think he ever played the position. Is there guards who are 6’8”? I think we’re stuck with him, yeah we can cut him and take the cap hit. But, is that what the Giants want to do? I would not be shocked they want to keep him as an extremely expensive backup. I thought we were going to be out of cap jail with Solder next year, could be wrong but he needs to go. He lost his heart to compete the way we need him to perhaps before he even arrived here. I'd love him as a neighbor, but not on my roster. getting the team out of a bad cap situation is where good GMs earn their pay, I hope DG is up to the task.
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Post by jb456 on Jan 2, 2021 9:39:00 GMT -5
No way should we extend him. He will be 31 next year, you might as well say he’ll be 85 beginning training camp. He plays an extremely violent position, and has done it for a long time. It’s just the matter of time before the wheels fall off, remember Chris Snee? What are the options? Are we comfortable with Lemieux stepping in? Or do we go the free agency/draft route? Either way, it’s a fair discussion. He had an ok year, but who wants to pay ok players $12 million? I say keep him for the year, and draft his replacement. The bigger question is what do we do with Solder? His contract is an anchor to our salary cap. Can’t get rid of him, and no one would trade for him. Solder will be a post June 1st cut.
$16.5m cost to keep him. $10m cost to cut him. $6.5m cost to cut him post June 1st.
The $10m we save by not having Solder on the team next year can cover the cost of our entire draft class.
Are you sure about this? Spotrac shows the deadcap as $10.5M. I didn't see anything about saving an extra $4M on the page from a post June 1 cut. Don't get me wrong, I would be all aboard for cutting him if they save $10M but I'm on the fence for $6M... www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/nate-solder-7732/
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Post by Kruunch on Jan 2, 2021 12:27:10 GMT -5
I don’t think he ever played the position. Is there guards who are 6’8”? I think we’re stuck with him, yeah we can cut him and take the cap hit. But, is that what the Giants want to do? I would not be shocked they want to keep him as an extremely expensive backup. I thought we were going to be out of cap jail with Solder next year, could be wrong but he needs to go. He lost his heart to compete the way we need him to perhaps before he even arrived here. I'd love him as a neighbor, but not on my roster. Agreed. He’s the kind of guy you would call if you needed a ride from the airport. Hell, I would ask him to check my mail when I’m out of town. Just stay the hell away from my team. Unless you’re buying tickets to watch the game, then charge him double.
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Post by Kase1 on Jan 2, 2021 16:41:27 GMT -5
I keep flip flopping on the issue...
Before the season started, I was cool with grooming Lemieux for LG, moving Hernandez to RG and letting Zeitler walk come 2021, now im not too sure.
Hernandez looks like a shell of himself, dude took a few BIG steps backwards. Lemieux, while a good run blocker, has been somewhat exposed with it comes to pass pro
I like having Zeitler, our most consistent OL, but at what cost. I'd be cool with extending him to offset his cap hit.
If it comes down to EITHER Zeitler OR Williams/Tomlinson, it will be sad to see Zeitler go
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Jan 2, 2021 17:21:49 GMT -5
The Odell, OV, and Collins moves all went in our favor. I wouldn't trade back for any of them. A few of the many "bad moves" DG was criticized for that ended up working out. I think they moves to get rid of each of them are fine decisions, everyone has a price but you need to replace the talent. The problem is we never replaced the #1 WR. Or EDGE. Both of which are critical to Ws/Ls. Rather than just accruing interior DL To be fair to Getty on the edge rushers, we lost all three of the top players (Carter, Ximines, Fackrell) to season ending injuries. And Carter and Fackrell were playing pretty well before going down.
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Post by TCHOF on Jan 2, 2021 18:23:31 GMT -5
I think they moves to get rid of each of them are fine decisions, everyone has a price but you need to replace the talent. The problem is we never replaced the #1 WR. Or EDGE. Both of which are critical to Ws/Ls. Rather than just accruing interior DL To be fair to Getty on the edge rushers, we lost all three of the top players (Carter, Ximines, Fackrell) to season ending injuries. And Carter and Fackrell were playing pretty well before going down. Carter is by no means a #1 edge rusher. Fackrell is a journeyman on a one year deal. Meanwhile, JPP has 30.5 sacks for the Bucs, even after missing a bunch of time due to a neck injury.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 2, 2021 20:00:19 GMT -5
I keep flip flopping on the issue... Before the season started, I was cool with grooming Lemieux for LG, moving Hernandez to RG and letting Zeitler walk come 2021, now im not too sure. Hernandez looks like a shell of himself, dude took a few BIG steps backwards. Lemieux, while a good run blocker, has been somewhat exposed with it comes to pass pro I like having Zeitler, our most consistent OL, but at what cost. I'd be cool with extending him to offset his cap hit. If it comes down to EITHER Zeitler OR Williams/Tomlinson, it will be sad to see Zeitler go Lemiuex is the worst pass blocking offensive lineman in the league. Hernandez was the second highest rated OL on the team before contracting COVID. I don’t know where fans are getting that he’s not playing because he’s being beaten. Lemiuex has been horrible.
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Post by TCHOF on Jan 2, 2021 20:20:28 GMT -5
I keep flip flopping on the issue... Before the season started, I was cool with grooming Lemieux for LG, moving Hernandez to RG and letting Zeitler walk come 2021, now im not too sure. Hernandez looks like a shell of himself, dude took a few BIG steps backwards. Lemieux, while a good run blocker, has been somewhat exposed with it comes to pass pro I like having Zeitler, our most consistent OL, but at what cost. I'd be cool with extending him to offset his cap hit. If it comes down to EITHER Zeitler OR Williams/Tomlinson, it will be sad to see Zeitler go Lemiuex is the worst pass blocking offensive lineman in the league. Hernandez was the second highest rated OL on the team before contracting COVID. I don’t know where fans are getting that he’s not playing because he’s being beaten. Lemiuex has been horrible. Clearly, the coaching staff prefers Lemieux. Has nothing to do with COVID
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 2, 2021 21:05:07 GMT -5
Solder will be a post June 1st cut.
$16.5m cost to keep him. $10m cost to cut him. $6.5m cost to cut him post June 1st.
The $10m we save by not having Solder on the team next year can cover the cost of our entire draft class.
Are you sure about this? Spotrac shows the deadcap as $10.5M. I didn't see anything about saving an extra $4M on the page from a post June 1 cut. Don't get me wrong, I would be all aboard for cutting him if they save $10M but I'm on the fence for $6M... www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/nate-solder-7732/Sportrac is correct (or very close to correct depending who you ask) but when you cut someone after June 1st you split the dead cap money. So if we cut Solder after J1 then we will have 6.5m dead this year and 4m dead the next year.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 2, 2021 21:13:30 GMT -5
Carter is by no means a #1 edge rusher. Fackrell is a journeyman on a one year deal. Meanwhile, JPP has 30.5 sacks for the Bucs, even after missing a bunch of time due to a neck injury. The truth about JPP is people around here were pissed off that Reese signed him to a 1 year deal after the fireworks. Then they were pissed at Gettleman when that ran out and we franchised him and even more mad when DG signed him to a 4 year deal.
In hindsight JPP still had a lot left in the tank and being on a defense with other studs certainly helps. I bet he would do great here now.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 2, 2021 21:18:07 GMT -5
Lemiuex is the worst pass blocking offensive lineman in the league. I doubt that very much. If that were the case why on earth would we have him playing when Hernandez is sitting? I mean sure I could see playing "the worst OL" if you have guys injured or something, but I seriously doubt Judge would sit a perfectly good Hernandez and play the worst guy on earth.
Just an opinion. He absolutely has his mistakes at times. That's to be expected with the number of rookies we have, first time Center, rotating QBs, fired OL coach ect.
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Post by bluebuddha on Jan 2, 2021 21:21:16 GMT -5
I keep flip flopping on the issue... Before the season started, I was cool with grooming Lemieux for LG, moving Hernandez to RG and letting Zeitler walk come 2021, now im not too sure. Hernandez looks like a shell of himself, dude took a few BIG steps backwards. Lemieux, while a good run blocker, has been somewhat exposed with it comes to pass pro I like having Zeitler, our most consistent OL, but at what cost. I'd be cool with extending him to offset his cap hit. If it comes down to EITHER Zeitler OR Williams/Tomlinson, it will be sad to see Zeitler go Lemiuex is the worst pass blocking offensive lineman in the league. Hernandez was the second highest rated OL on the team before contracting COVID. I don’t know where fans are getting that he’s not playing because he’s being beaten. Lemiuex has been horrible. I think it is just a case of Will being drafted for Shurmurs offense more than anything else. There is a reason why our offense looks bad it was built for a different coach. The defense has been revamped and performing better. Next year will be the offense. I don't think Will will be a part off it. He could be traded to a team that is set on a power blocking scheme.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 2, 2021 22:24:01 GMT -5
Lemiuex is the worst pass blocking offensive lineman in the league. I doubt that very much. If that were the case why on earth would we have him playing when Hernandez is sitting? I mean sure I could see playing "the worst OL" if you have guys injured or something, but I seriously doubt Judge would sit a perfectly good Hernandez and play the worst guy on earth.
Just an opinion. He absolutely has his mistakes at times. That's to be expected with the number of rookies we have, first time Center, rotating QBs, fired OL coach ect.
www.nj.com/giants/2020/12/why-giants-will-hernandez-hasnt-been-playing-over-shane-lemieux-and-what-that-means-for-2021.htmlFrom Week 8-16, Lemieux ranks last of 83 guards in overall grade (29.9) and 82nd in pass-blocking grade (13.8). He’s allowed 24 pressures (third-most) and five sacks (second-most), including two allowed against the Ravens.
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 2, 2021 22:33:03 GMT -5
I think we have all seen Solder take his last snap as a Giant. Really? They still have 14 mill in dead cap on him.
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