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Post by thetruth on Feb 16, 2021 18:22:19 GMT -5
 Lets not pretend that "fixing" the cap was ever a concern or that we dont have "space" 'this' year. There's a reason the Rams and Saints essentially do what they want when they want to do it. Very easy to work around Some food for thought going into FA |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 18:41:03 GMT -5
I don’t understand this.
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Post by McCherry on Feb 16, 2021 18:49:38 GMT -5
The graph demonstrates how contracts are backloaded over time. Just because a player is valued at an average $ number per season doesn’t mean that amount is paid evenly per season. |
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Post by thetruth on Feb 16, 2021 18:55:15 GMT -5
The graph demonstrates how contracts are backloaded over time. Just because a player is valued at an average $ number per season doesn’t mean that amount is paid evenly per season. Not to mention, future years cap space is available to use for 2021 contracts . Just just because we can't get players under the 2021 cap we can use future years to compensate. Its a soft cap at best. Sign LW, sign a big ticket FA WR and lets goooo. |
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Post by McCherry on Feb 16, 2021 19:13:30 GMT -5
The graph demonstrates how contracts are backloaded over time. Just because a player is valued at an average $ number per season doesn’t mean that amount is paid evenly per season. Not to mention, future years cap space is available to use for 2021 contracts . Just just because we can't get players under the 2021 cap we can use future years to compensate. Its a soft cap at best. Sign LW, sign a big ticket FA WR and lets goooo. That’s what I meant by “backloaded”. You’re right though, many fans surprisingly don’t understand this concept. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 16, 2021 19:19:21 GMT -5
The graph demonstrates how contracts are backloaded over time. Just because a player is valued at an average $ number per season doesn’t mean that amount is paid evenly per season. Not to mention, future years cap space is available to use for 2021 contracts . Just just because we can't get players under the 2021 cap we can use future years to compensate. Its a soft cap at best. Sign LW, sign a big ticket FA WR and lets goooo. You can bring back both LW and Tomlinson and get one big get .... We have contracts we can extend as well (Bradberry and Zeitler.) Though I differ in that because this pass rush class is so weak at the top I'd rather get a pass rusher as my big get and flood our offense with a high double dip at WR) |
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Post by thetruth on Feb 16, 2021 19:26:16 GMT -5
Not to mention, future years cap space is available to use for 2021 contracts . Just just because we can't get players under the 2021 cap we can use future years to compensate. Its a soft cap at best. Sign LW, sign a big ticket FA WR and lets goooo. You can bring back both LW and Tomlinson and get one big get .... We have contracts we can extend as well (Bradberry and Zeitler.) Though I differ in that because this pass rush class is so weak at the top I'd rather get a pass rusher as my big get and flood our offense with a high double dip at WR) Id take pass rusher over everything else to be honest. Im not confident in the draft and its a massive need. Though, im also guessing we plan to address WR in round 1 and ignore it entirely in FA. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 16, 2021 19:48:42 GMT -5
Paying Williams will turn that red bar blue. Maybe a few of them. Lol
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 16, 2021 20:16:25 GMT -5
They have a lot of money in 2022 and 2023 but back loading contracts gotta to be careful with.
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Post by McCherry on Feb 16, 2021 20:44:50 GMT -5
They have a lot of money in 2022 and 2023 but back loading contracts gotta to be careful with. Most big contacts are set up that way. If we don't win in the next 2-3 year window, you have to scrap it all anyway. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 16, 2021 20:55:36 GMT -5
They have a lot of money in 2022 and 2023 but back loading contracts gotta to be careful with. Most big contacts are set up that way. If we don't win in the next 2-3 year window, you have to scrap it all anyway. That's the window of Jones back of his rookie deal and his option year as well |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 16, 2021 21:00:07 GMT -5
They have a lot of money in 2022 and 2023 but back loading contracts gotta to be careful with. Most big contacts are set up that way. If we don't win in the next 2-3 year window, you have to scrap it all anyway. most of the newer ones are front loaded less later can get out of them early. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 21:17:48 GMT -5
The Cap is cap.
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Post by Rangers13 on Feb 16, 2021 21:30:56 GMT -5
Giants have no choice but to backload
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 16, 2021 21:35:21 GMT -5
Most big contacts are set up that way. If we don't win in the next 2-3 year window, you have to scrap it all anyway. most of the newer ones are front loaded less later can get out of them early. Front loading includes big year 2 numbers ...we will have plenty in 2022 |
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Post by McCherry on Feb 16, 2021 21:46:14 GMT -5
most of the newer ones are front loaded less later can get out of them early. Front loading includes big year 2 numbers ...we will have plenty in 2022 It depends on your current and future cap situation and the amount moves you need to make. Despite the opinions of many, in our case we don’t need to make that many “big” FA moves over the next couple years, so we’ve got the space to absorb those hits early. In short, we have just as much leverage to appease Williams as anyone. |
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Post by imgrate on Feb 16, 2021 21:49:45 GMT -5
The graph demonstrates how contracts are backloaded over time. Just because a player is valued at an average $ number per season doesn’t mean that amount is paid evenly per season. Not to mention, future years cap space is available to use for 2021 contracts . Just just because we can't get players under the 2021 cap we can use future years to compensate. Its a soft cap at best. Sign LW, sign a big ticket FA WR and lets goooo. Its still a limited resource. In any isolated year, sure you can finagle it, but it eventually limits your flexibility. |
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Post by piddy283 on Feb 16, 2021 22:32:28 GMT -5
The graph demonstrates how contracts are backloaded over time. Just because a player is valued at an average $ number per season doesn’t mean that amount is paid evenly per season. Not to mention, future years cap space is available to use for 2021 contracts . Just just because we can't get players under the 2021 cap we can use future years to compensate. Its a soft cap at best. Sign LW, sign a big ticket FA WR and lets goooo. Please no big FA WR. Spend on defense, or OL, if anything beyond DT & LW. There isn't a top end WR worth it this year, as much as we need it. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 8:16:08 GMT -5
So now fans don't care about signing big names with back loaded contracts just like Reese did for that one playoff game in 2016.
Interesting thing is that I keep hearing how Getty took over a team in cap hell because of those signings so he gets a pass for this mess of a team he assembled but now it's fine to do it again..
Hypocrisy at it's finest..
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Post by TEM on Feb 17, 2021 8:19:26 GMT -5
IMO:
Back loading contracts are a double edged sword . We always assumed the cap would increase. This year changed that paradigm. It dropped 15-20 million.
It was estimated that each team's losses were between 70 and 100 million ( the gate ,parking fees and concessions). At 85 million in losses and a cap at 185. It will take almost 6 years of a flat cap to recoup. Next year if there are partial or no fans in the seats again . It will be worse. The days of counting eggs as chickens are over.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 17, 2021 8:25:39 GMT -5
most of the newer ones are front loaded less later can get out of them early. Front loading includes big year 2 numbers ...we will have plenty in 2022 Yea the way the Giants set up Martinez / Bradberry / and Ryan have set them up to be healthy cap wise for the future. Actually without the covid deal they were good to go this year the part that hurt most are guys that opted out pushes last years numbers to this year, other wise Solder would have been I believe a 14 mill cap savings |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 8:34:31 GMT -5
Front loading includes big year 2 numbers ...we will have plenty in 2022 Yea the way the Giants set up Martinez / Bradberry / and Ryan have set them up to be healthy cap wise for the future. Actually without the covid deal they were good to go this year the part that hurt most are guys that opted out pushes last years numbers to this year, other wise Solder would have been I believe a 14 mill cap savingsWhen he opted out this did hurt the Giants which is why I wouldn't be surprised if they keep him and try him as the RT or at least the back up tackle.. |
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Post by piddy283 on Feb 17, 2021 8:40:45 GMT -5
So now fans don't care about signing big names with back loaded contracts just like Reese did for that one playoff game in 2016. Interesting thing is that I keep hearing how Getty took over a team in cap hell because of those signings so he gets a pass for this mess of a team he assembled but now it's fine to do it again.. Hypocrisy at it's finest.. I leave contracts to the smart folks, but I've really liked how DG has approached most of the contracts he's signed. Even his whiffs, many haven't impacted us long term. Whatever that is, let's keep doing that. |
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Post by jb456 on Feb 17, 2021 8:58:13 GMT -5
They have a lot of money in 2022 and 2023 but back loading contracts gotta to be careful with. They have even more money than people think. Those future cap projections include Solder and Tate... |
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Post by Delicreep on Feb 17, 2021 9:09:14 GMT -5
Front loading includes big year 2 numbers ...we will have plenty in 2022 It depends on your current and future cap situation and the amount moves you need to make. Despite the opinions of many, in our case we don’t need to make that many “big” FA moves over the next couple years, so we’ve got the space to absorb those hits early. In short, we have just as much leverage to appease Williams as anyone. If you were williams, would you want $xxx frontloaded or the same amount backloaded? |
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Post by jb456 on Feb 17, 2021 9:18:45 GMT -5
So now fans don't care about signing big names with back loaded contracts just like Reese did for that one playoff game in 2016. Interesting thing is that I keep hearing how Getty took over a team in cap hell because of those signings so he gets a pass for this mess of a team he assembled but now it's fine to do it again.. Hypocrisy at it's finest.. To be fair, those scenarios are different. Reese went out and signed $200M worth of FA and gave OV and gave an $85M contract to a DE that couldn't get to the QB while on a line that included Ndomukung Suh. In the year before getting his massive contract from the Giants, OV had 7.5 sacks as a DE, Also, the Salary cap was $155M when the Giants awarded OV that massive contract. LW should get at least that amount, probably more since as a DT he had 11.5 sacks while surrounded by less talent on the line and the salary cap is going to jump to at least $209M in 2022 (25% more than 2016). Signing your own players that you know fit your system is a lot less risky than going on the open market (see Nate Solder / OV situation). In the end, NFL teams have to spend the money (there is a salary cap floor). If they don't spend the money on their money on their own FA's, they will just need to go out into FA and overspend there. So if you don't like the back-loading strategy, who do you want the Giants to spend $100+M on in 2022 in the FA market? At least $75M - $85M of that money needs to be spent.... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 9:25:38 GMT -5
So now fans don't care about signing big names with back loaded contracts just like Reese did for that one playoff game in 2016. Interesting thing is that I keep hearing how Getty took over a team in cap hell because of those signings so he gets a pass for this mess of a team he assembled but now it's fine to do it again.. Hypocrisy at it's finest.. To be fair, those scenarios are different. Reese went out and signed $200M worth of FA and gave OV and gave an $85M contract to a DE that couldn't get to the QB while on a line that included Ndomukung Suh. In the year before getting his massive contract from the Giants, OV had 7.5 sacks as a DE, Also, the Salary cap was $155M when the Giants awarded OV that massive contract. LW should get at least that amount, probably more since as a DT he had 11.5 sacks while surrounded by less talent on the line and the salary cap is going to jump to at least $209M in 2022 (25% more than 2016). Signing your own players that you know fit your system is a lot less risky than going on the open market (see Nate Solder / OV situation). In the end, NFL teams have to spend the money (there is a salary cap floor). If they don't spend the money on their money on their own FA's, they will just need to go out into FA and overspend there. So if you don't like the back-loading strategy, who do you want the Giants to spend $100+M on in 2022 in the FA market? At least $75M - $85M of that money needs to be spent.... I just want consistency and I would rather they over spend on top FAs that were great for more then just the previous contract year. As for 2022 if that LBer White from the Bucs is available then I'm all for sending him a blank check.. |
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Post by giantsalmon on Feb 17, 2021 9:30:25 GMT -5
If NYG signs LW I really think they need to sign DT too. He is flat out steady on the inside and an emerging leader on the defense. There was clearly a chemistry with LW, DT, and Lawrence.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 17, 2021 9:30:26 GMT -5
It depends on your current and future cap situation and the amount moves you need to make. Despite the opinions of many, in our case we don’t need to make that many “big” FA moves over the next couple years, so we’ve got the space to absorb those hits early. In short, we have just as much leverage to appease Williams as anyone. If you were williams, would you want $xxx frontloaded or the same amount backloaded? Probably have to use a bit more prorated signing bonus than we want However even with extending contracts,cuts cancel them out and we have over 100 million in 2022 Let's say 25 million signing bonus and a 5 million base salary this year Give him a higher 2022 number lime 23 million guaranteed in 2022 That is 53 million in 2 years.....could end up being more than half his contract paid in 2 years.... This way you have less base in 2023 and 2024 (if it's a 4 year deal )and plenty of room starting in 2023 if they have to eat dead money early 80% of the league is going to have to deal with this reality of backloadibg contracts,but unlike most we have insane space to buffer potential issues starting next year.. He'll Dallas and Philly,how do they eat all that dead money..Philly has dead end players with a lot of dead money hits impending so tbey can't even extend Dallas probably has to convert a lot of base into bonus and kill most of their space tbe next 3 years to even get under...and then more work to do if they want to bring back Dak Teams not on rookie qb deals all have to push out money for years.. We are in a really good spot TBH... |
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 17, 2021 9:31:17 GMT -5
To be fair, those scenarios are different. Reese went out and signed $200M worth of FA and gave OV and gave an $85M contract to a DE that couldn't get to the QB while on a line that included Ndomukung Suh. In the year before getting his massive contract from the Giants, OV had 7.5 sacks as a DE, Also, the Salary cap was $155M when the Giants awarded OV that massive contract. LW should get at least that amount, probably more since as a DT he had 11.5 sacks while surrounded by less talent on the line and the salary cap is going to jump to at least $209M in 2022 (25% more than 2016). Signing your own players that you know fit your system is a lot less risky than going on the open market (see Nate Solder / OV situation). In the end, NFL teams have to spend the money (there is a salary cap floor). If they don't spend the money on their money on their own FA's, they will just need to go out into FA and overspend there. So if you don't like the back-loading strategy, who do you want the Giants to spend $100+M on in 2022 in the FA market? At least $75M - $85M of that money needs to be spent.... I just want consistency and I would rather they over spend on top FAs that were great for more then just the previous contract year. As for 2022 if that LBer White from the Bucs is available then I'm all for sending him a blank check.. White will be on the 3rd year of his rookie deal (taken 1 spot ahead of us in 2019 David is available though |
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