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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 26, 2021 15:24:49 GMT -5
Great. What was the offer he turned down? The exact details? I do not know. But the obvious fact is he turned down the "very reasonable" trade back offer, without even negotiating once the prized QB wasnt taken #1 overall to see if that increased the value. Im not saying he was offered what just was offered for the Dolphins pick. Im saying he was offered a good deal and then didnt do his job after.
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 26, 2021 15:35:16 GMT -5
Great. What was the offer he turned down? The exact details? I do not know. But the obvious fact is he turned down the "very reasonable" trade back offer, without even negotiating once the prized QB wasnt taken #1 overall to see if that increased the value. Im not saying he was offered what just was offered for the Dolphins pick. Im saying he was offered a good deal and then didnt do his job after. I know you don't know the exact details. And I'm not arguing the actual facts with you, on those we agree. You don't know if the offer was good, you know that it was deemed reasonable from Gettelman's point of view. I agree that the best approach there is to respond and try to get that offer up to where it is actually good (not just reasonable) and acceptable to you. I have no idea if that happened or not, same as you. Those are the facts. I'm ridiculing the hysterical after the fact reactions from childish fans that do have any more facts in evidence than are established but continue to make things up in order to justify their emotional shower cries every time the subject comes up.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 26, 2021 15:41:48 GMT -5
Great. What was the offer he turned down? The exact details? I do not know. But the obvious fact is he turned down the "very reasonable" trade back offer, without even negotiating once the prized QB wasnt taken #1 overall to see if that increased the value. Im not saying he was offered what just was offered for the Dolphins pick. Im saying he was offered a good deal and then didnt do his job after. look at what the Colts got from the Jets. They rebuilt most of their line off that trade. Meanwhile, we’re years ((and only 15 wins) beyond this ridiculously draft and people are still stirring the pot. Move on from those who never acknowledge Gettleman openly stated he never picked up the ringing phone along with claiming Barkley makes everybody better including the QB, WR, OL and defense. He also mocked computer guys and their analytics while claiming Jonathan Stewart was in his 10th year and hasn’t lost anything. “Position value” is a “crock” he claimed. Nice work by Miami. Maybe the Giants will get over .500 this year although they would need to go 18-0 for Gettleman to reach .500 since arriving here to “kick @ss everyday”. lol. He’s like our Rex Ryan
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 26, 2021 15:45:21 GMT -5
The exact details? I do not know. But the obvious fact is he turned down the "very reasonable" trade back offer, without even negotiating once the prized QB wasnt taken #1 overall to see if that increased the value. Im not saying he was offered what just was offered for the Dolphins pick. Im saying he was offered a good deal and then didnt do his job after. I know you don't know the exact details. And I'm not arguing the actual facts with you, on those we agree. You don't know if the offer was good, you know that it was deemed reasonable from Gettelman's point of view. I agree that the best approach there is to respond and try to get that offer up to where it is actually good (not just reasonable) and acceptable to you. I have no idea if that happened or not, same as you. Those are the facts. I'm ridiculing the hysterical after the fact reactions from childish fans that do have any more facts in evidence than are established but continue to ,are thongs up in order to justify their emotional shower cries every time the subject comes up. We should have traded back.... Im going to go grab a beer and get the grill fired up now Sarc. Its nearing the 5pm hour. emoji
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 26, 2021 16:06:40 GMT -5
I know you don't know the exact details. And I'm not arguing the actual facts with you, on those we agree. You don't know if the offer was good, you know that it was deemed reasonable from Gettelman's point of view. I agree that the best approach there is to respond and try to get that offer up to where it is actually good (not just reasonable) and acceptable to you. I have no idea if that happened or not, same as you. Those are the facts. I'm ridiculing the hysterical after the fact reactions from childish fans that do have any more facts in evidence than are established but continue to ,are thongs up in order to justify their emotional shower cries every time the subject comes up. We should have traded back.... Im going to go grab a beer and get the grill fired up now Sarc. Its nearing the 5pm hour. There's no argument there. If the QB you want (if you want one) is there you take him. If not, you trade back. But for the second part to happen in reality, it requires an amenable partner. The important there was reality, not the theoretical world where folks make up some emotional theory and dream up scenarios based on corollary (or not) happenstance. I get that that's the stuff of sports call in radio fans and message boards but let's not confuse that with actual reality. I think most fans are smarter than that. Great idea on the booze and bbq, I think I'll do the same.
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Post by nygfanstrick on Mar 26, 2021 17:00:54 GMT -5
Give me all the QB picks before our selection. Give us the most weapon options and OL options possible. Take whoever is the highest rated period
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 26, 2021 17:34:27 GMT -5
Thats what we should have done in 2018 no doubt. LOL, another hindsight GM. Hindsight? We were screaming it when it happened.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 26, 2021 18:00:25 GMT -5
Give me all the QB picks before our selection. Give us the most weapon options and OL options possible. Take whoever is the highest rated period Exactly because Parsons goes ahead of us probably and Surtain could as well(and would probably not be a BPA )
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Post by Miked1958 on Mar 26, 2021 18:19:06 GMT -5
Yes look at the updated mock i just posted. This one has QBs 1-4 as you suggested and Pitts going to NY. You called it!! As much as it feels that way, it never happens. One of those teams will go OT or WR IMO. Well we know Jags are taking Lawrence. Jets could go somewhere other then QB but i think they are done with Darnold SF to me doesnt give up that many assets to draft anything other then a QB Atlanta could be the one who goes for a WR or something else
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 26, 2021 18:33:22 GMT -5
As much as it feels that way, it never happens. One of those teams will go OT or WR IMO. Well we know Jaga are taking Lawrence. Jets could go somewhere other then QB but i think they are done with Darnold SF to me doesnt give up that many assets to draft anything other then a QB Atlanta could be the one who goes for a WR or something else If Atlanta doesn’t want the 4th QB, they could be a good trade down candidate
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2021 18:33:48 GMT -5
Jets 2 pick could be a legend trade if they decide to keep Darnold.....
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 26, 2021 19:29:52 GMT -5
Thats what we should have done in 2018 no doubt. LOL, another hindsight GM. Nope ... a lot of us were saying that at the time
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 26, 2021 19:31:54 GMT -5
more like foresight before that draft I wanted Baker. When he was taken #1, I wanted the trade back I was hearing from the Broncos. Hndsight need not apply. Pretty sure that Red doesn’t know what hindsight means
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 26, 2021 19:36:26 GMT -5
A lot of people think that the 49ers traded up to draft Mac Jones.
IMO if that happens, it is possible that 5 QB’s go in the top 10, which would be great for us
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Post by imgrate on Mar 26, 2021 21:48:31 GMT -5
The exact details? I do not know. But the obvious fact is he turned down the "very reasonable" trade back offer, without even negotiating once the prized QB wasnt taken #1 overall to see if that increased the value. Im not saying he was offered what just was offered for the Dolphins pick. Im saying he was offered a good deal and then didnt do his job after. I know you don't know the exact details. And I'm not arguing the actual facts with you, on those we agree. You don't know if the offer was good, you know that it was deemed reasonable from Gettelman's point of view. I agree that the best approach there is to respond and try to get that offer up to where it is actually good (not just reasonable) and acceptable to you. I have no idea if that happened or not, same as you. Those are the facts. I'm ridiculing the hysterical after the fact reactions from childish fans that do have any more facts in evidence than are established but continue to make things up in order to justify their emotional shower cries every time the subject comes up. Nah f that. Taking a RB #2 overall is so utterly stupid that literally having any other pick in the first round and not taking a RB at 2 would have been better for us. I'm talking even if someone would have given us the 10th overall pick and then also a 7th round pick its better than taking a rb #2 overall. My point? A shit deal is guaranteed to be findable. Anything that guaranteed us not drafting a RB at #2 would have helped us. I mean I'm the epitome of the whiny person you're talking about because it really is that ****ing stupid to take a RB at #2. I'm even going to one-up my already crazy rant... You know how people give aris shit about saying Rosen would have been the better pick? I agree with that! You know why? Because we would've found out Rosen sucks and been able to get a second round pick for him. AND even more crazy, if that second round pick ended being a complete bust? It still is a better deal than taking a rb #2 overall. Why? Because the cap space of a top paid RB wouldn't be on the books and you could sign someone of actual value.
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 26, 2021 22:15:23 GMT -5
I know you don't know the exact details. And I'm not arguing the actual facts with you, on those we agree. You don't know if the offer was good, you know that it was deemed reasonable from Gettelman's point of view. I agree that the best approach there is to respond and try to get that offer up to where it is actually good (not just reasonable) and acceptable to you. I have no idea if that happened or not, same as you. Those are the facts. I'm ridiculing the hysterical after the fact reactions from childish fans that do have any more facts in evidence than are established but continue to make things up in order to justify their emotional shower cries every time the subject comes up. Nah f that. Taking a RB #2 overall is so utterly stupid that literally having any other pick in the first round and not taking a RB at 2 would have been better for us. I'm talking even if someone would have given us the 10th overall pick and then also a 7th round pick its better than taking a rb #2 overall. My point? A shit deal is guaranteed to be findable. Anything that guaranteed us not drafting a RB at #2 would have helped us. I mean I'm the epitome of the whiny person you're talking about because it really is that ****ing stupid to take a RB at #2. I'm even going to one-up my already crazy rant... You know how people give aris shit about saying Rosen would have been the better pick? I agree with that! You know why? Because we would've found out Rosen sucks and been able to get a second round pick for him. AND even more crazy, if that second round pick ended being a complete bust? It still is a better deal than taking a rb #2 overall. Why? Because the cap space of a top paid RB wouldn't be on the books and you could sign someone of actual value. All valid points. Although I have to say I doubt that had he traded the pick for for shit, or taken a crap QB they they clearly didn't believe in it would not have been received better by the fan base. At some point you have to live with the decisions you paid the guy to make. Second guessing those based on fantasies isn't a better outcome. It's just whining after the fact. Had the facts been different, I'm not one of those that can pretend the reaction would have been different.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 26, 2021 22:43:31 GMT -5
Those who like and endorse this Miami trade before picks are made are demonstrating the same foresight as they did in ridiculing that #2 not being moved.
On the flip side, those playing the hindsight card won’t even mention this Miami trade. They again must we waiting to use that hindsight card.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 26, 2021 22:47:10 GMT -5
A lot of people think that the 49ers traded up to draft Mac Jones. IMO if that happens, it is possible that 5 QB’s go in the top 10, which would be great for us hmm, that would be very interesting. Let’s hope Jones is the real deal. This is what scared many of us. When you’re picking #2, #6 and #4 you better make sure you have a QB b/c there were so many older QB’s and young ones at risk to not work out. Quite amazing the Giants had the #2, #6 and #4 yet never traded back even once in a QB league.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 26, 2021 22:51:30 GMT -5
Jets 2 pick could be a legend trade if they decide to keep Darnold..... who are you thinking? - Atlanta? Maybe - Washington? Snyder is crazy enough too imo. It will cost a lot - Denver? Maybe - Carolina? Maybe - Texas? Who knows what is happening there - Chicago? What are they thinking?
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Post by imgrate on Mar 26, 2021 23:01:38 GMT -5
Nah f that. Taking a RB #2 overall is so utterly stupid that literally having any other pick in the first round and not taking a RB at 2 would have been better for us. I'm talking even if someone would have given us the 10th overall pick and then also a 7th round pick its better than taking a rb #2 overall. My point? A shit deal is guaranteed to be findable. Anything that guaranteed us not drafting a RB at #2 would have helped us. I mean I'm the epitome of the whiny person you're talking about because it really is that ****ing stupid to take a RB at #2. I'm even going to one-up my already crazy rant... You know how people give aris shit about saying Rosen would have been the better pick? I agree with that! You know why? Because we would've found out Rosen sucks and been able to get a second round pick for him. AND even more crazy, if that second round pick ended being a complete bust? It still is a better deal than taking a rb #2 overall. Why? Because the cap space of a top paid RB wouldn't be on the books and you could sign someone of actual value. All valid points. Although I have to say I doubt that had he traded the pick for for shit, or taken a crap QB they they clearly didn't believe in it would not have been received better by the fan base. At some point you have to live with the decisions you paid the guy to make. Second guessing those based on fantasies isn't a better outcome. It's just whining after the fact. Had the facts been different, I'm not one of those that can pretend the reaction would have been different. If they picked Rosen, then yes I would've given him shit. No doubt. But that would've been a year or so later. Prior to the draft, there was potential for Rosen to be a good pick. Whereas, prior to the draft, taking Barkley would be an awful decision because even if he was an all star, he plays a non valuable position and is already going to be a top earner at his position. Literally no win situation due to opportunity cost in taking Barkley
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 27, 2021 0:47:05 GMT -5
All valid points. Although I have to say I doubt that had he traded the pick for for shit, or taken a crap QB they they clearly didn't believe in it would not have been received better by the fan base. At some point you have to live with the decisions you paid the guy to make. Second guessing those based on fantasies isn't a better outcome. It's just whining after the fact. Had the facts been different, I'm not one of those that can pretend the reaction would have been different. If they picked Rosen, then yes I would've given him shit. No doubt. But that would've been a year or so later. Prior to the draft, there was potential for Rosen to be a good pick. Whereas, prior to the draft, taking Barkley would be an awful decision because even if he was an all star, he plays a non valuable position and is already going to be a top earner at his position. Literally no win situation due to opportunity cost in taking Barkley I'm not defending Gettleman for that pick, it's indefensible. And I'm no barometer for this stuff, I wanted Rosen. But Gettelman had an expectation of value on Barkley that he felt wasn't getting met by suitors. He was wrong. But that's his call and for whatever reason, he made it. I believe it's his job to generate as much interest in that pick as he can and deal it. He didn't. He misjudged where the roster was and rejected whatever initial offer was on the table. That's all, so I think it is ridiculous to create fantastic scenarios that didn't exist just to get wound up over.
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2021 7:17:49 GMT -5
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Post by JoeyCush on Mar 27, 2021 7:51:56 GMT -5
Man if Mac Jones finds his way into the top 10 that would be extraordinary for the Giants. 5 of the top 10 being QBs with Sewell, Slater, Parsons, Pitts, Chase, Smith, Waddle, Surtain, Farley available. You would have to think Denver and/or Dallas go defense at their spots.
If say Jones gets into the top 10 and both Dallas and Denver take a defensive player, that would mean only 3 non QB offensive prospects taken before the Giants pick. What a win that would be.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 27, 2021 8:50:31 GMT -5
that’s a nice haul IMO. If you’re not going QB and a team offers to swap #1’s which isn’t too far back and get multiple #2 picks, why not? That is unless you have DE or a somebody besides a HB you want. That wasn’t the case.
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2021 8:57:06 GMT -5
that’s a nice haul IMO. If you’re not going QB and a team offers to swap #1’s which isn’t too far back and get multiple #2 picks, why not? That is unless you have DE or a somebody besides a HB you want. That wasn’t the case. I disagree. I would have set a high price and stuck to it. Just as the Dolphins did.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 27, 2021 9:22:24 GMT -5
that’s a nice haul IMO. If you’re not going QB and a team offers to swap #1’s which isn’t too far back and get multiple #2 picks, why not? That is unless you have DE or a somebody besides a HB you want. That wasn’t the case. I disagree. I would have set a high price and stuck to it. Just as the Dolphins did. Maybe the Giants would have got a better deal. Gettleman didn’t pick up the phone. The market in 08 may have been different and the Dolphins did ‘t really hold out b/c the offer came weeks before the draft rather than the phone ringing minutes before the Giants pick. 3 #2 picks and drop back only a few slots is a windfall. Look at what it did for the Colts. Those two lineman and MIKE drafted would be starters for the Giants overnight
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2021 9:40:00 GMT -5
I disagree. I would have set a high price and stuck to it. Just as the Dolphins did. Maybe the Giants would have got a better deal. Gettleman didn’t pick up the phone. The market in 08 may have been different and the Dolphins did ‘t really hold out b/c the offer came weeks before the draft rather than the phone ringing minutes before the Giants pick. 3 #2 picks and drop back only a few slots is a windfall. Look at what it did for the Colts. Those two lineman and MIKE drafted would be starters for the Giants overnight This is the way I see it . MY logic: What were those GMs doing with the time they had between the Super bowl and the Draft? Where was their can't refuse offer in that time frame? The only reason to hold onto the pick for the Wow offer during the 10 minutes the Giants were on the clock. Is if there was a bidding war going on. By what the Jets gave the Colts. There was no bidding war going on or the Colts would have waited for the best possible offer.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 27, 2021 9:49:33 GMT -5
Maybe the Giants would have got a better deal. Gettleman didn’t pick up the phone. The market in 08 may have been different and the Dolphins did ‘t really hold out b/c the offer came weeks before the draft rather than the phone ringing minutes before the Giants pick. 3 #2 picks and drop back only a few slots is a windfall. Look at what it did for the Colts. Those two lineman and MIKE drafted would be starters for the Giants overnight This is the way I see it . MY logic: What were those GMs doing with the time they had between the Super bowl and the Draft? Where was their can't refuse offer in that time frame? The only reason to hold onto the pick for the Wow offer during the 10 minutes the Giants were on the clock. Is if there was a bidding war going on. By what the Jets gave the Colts. There was no bidding war going on or the Colts would have waited for the best possible offer. it’s your opinion, not logic. Bottom line is Gettleman did nothing and appears if you were a GM you would do no better. So your position gets the same ridicule as you seem to be defending what happened. 15 wins in 3 years is a shiat job. Congrats to the Colts for a brilliant move and Miami. Both of which have more win than the Giants over the past 3 years.
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2021 9:52:53 GMT -5
This is the way I see it . MY logic: What were those GMs doing with the time they had between the Super bowl and the Draft? Where was their can't refuse offer in that time frame? The only reason to hold onto the pick for the Wow offer during the 10 minutes the Giants were on the clock. Is if there was a bidding war going on. By what the Jets gave the Colts. There was no bidding war going on or the Colts would have waited for the best possible offer. it’s your opinion, not logic. Bottom line is Gettleman did nothing and appears if you were a GM you would do no better. So your position gets the same ridicule as you seem to be defending what happened. 15 wins in 3 years is a shiat job. Congrats to the Colts for a brilliant move and Miami. Both of which have more win than the Giants over the past 3 years. It is logic. If a Gm really wanted that pick . He would have made a can't refuse offer just as the 49rers before draft day.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 27, 2021 9:55:48 GMT -5
it’s your opinion, not logic. Bottom line is Gettleman did nothing and appears if you were a GM you would do no better. So your position gets the same ridicule as you seem to be defending what happened. 15 wins in 3 years is a shiat job. Congrats to the Colts for a brilliant move and Miami. Both of which have more win than the Giants over the past 3 years. It is logic. If a Gm really wanted that pick . He would have made a can't refuse offer just as the 49rers before draft day. lol, that’s your logic. I’m on the same page as quite a few as are you yet they’re clearly two different groups of fans.
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