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Post by TCHOF on Apr 15, 2021 9:49:58 GMT -5
Features Parsons, who apparently has a big personality.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 18, 2021 14:13:16 GMT -5
Everything about Micah Parsons is a positive showing personality, supposedly well liked by teammates, his play, work ethic........ except for this issue with the hazing. And apparently it was pretty bad and vulga.
20-21 year olds do make stupid mistakes. Hopefully something like this was an outlier not a personality disorder. I would love his talent on the Giants but the team needs to think long and hard and get to the bottom of that incident.
Tough decision to make on an exceptional talent. Is this young man going to grow up and put this behind him or is this a red flag to run away from.
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 18, 2021 14:24:24 GMT -5
Everything about Micah Parsons is a positive showing personality, supposedly well liked by teammates, his play, work ethic........ except for this issue with the hazing. And apparently it was pretty bad and vulga. 20-21 year olds do make stupid mistakes. Hopefully something like this was an outlier not a personality disorder. I would love his talent on the Giants but the team needs to think long and hard and get to the bottom of that incident. Tough decision to make on an exceptional talent. Is this young man going to grow up and put this behind him or is this a red flag to run away from. I think he has already put this behind him. It’s the fans and detractors who keep bringing it up. This kid can flat out play. We seen what Graham can do on a defense, let’s give him more pieces to work with. And that starts with the best linebacker in the draft. No more taking a flyer on an unknown late round pick. Or overpaying for a player who’s best years are behind him. It’s been 37 years since we drafted a linebacker in the 1st round. That’s way too long for a franchise that used to pride themselves at the position. Everyone wants offense.. offense. I’ll still stick to my roots, we’re a defensive franchise. Always have been, always will be. Let’s make a good defense, great again. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 18, 2021 14:39:49 GMT -5
Everything about Micah Parsons is a positive showing personality, supposedly well liked by teammates, his play, work ethic........ except for this issue with the hazing. And apparently it was pretty bad and vulga. 20-21 year olds do make stupid mistakes. Hopefully something like this was an outlier not a personality disorder. I would love his talent on the Giants but the team needs to think long and hard and get to the bottom of that incident. Tough decision to make on an exceptional talent. Is this young man going to grow up and put this behind him or is this a red flag to run away from. I think he has already put this behind him. It’s the fans and detractors who keep bringing it up. This kid can flat out play. We seen what Graham can do on a defense, let’s give him more pieces to work with. And that starts with the best linebacker in the draft. No more taking a flyer on an unknown late round pick. Or overpaying for a player who’s best years are behind him. It’s been 37 years since we drafted a linebacker in the 1st round. That’s way too long for a franchise that used to pride themselves in the position. Everyone wants offense.. offense. I still stick to my roots, we’re a defensive franchise. Always have been, always will be. Let’s make a good defense, great again. If Micah is there at #11 we should jump on him. Kruunch can you imagine him next to Martinez in our defense. With our big D line LW, Shelton, and Dex. We go from a so so to somewhat weak vs the run defense to a tough Son of a B defense. We can still get a hell of a good OL especially G in the 2nd rd . |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 18, 2021 14:40:21 GMT -5
IF he is past the childish BS and concerns, he would be a hell of a LB in the NFL.
I would say the same about DeAndre Baker too though.
I think Parsons is only behind Lawrence and Chase as far as talent and impact go in this draft.
Personality worries me a bit though. Makes it a very high risk high reward pick.
It's hard for me to argue not going in on him though. Before I realized the off the field issues I would have easily taken him top 5.
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Post by SemperFi on Apr 18, 2021 14:52:17 GMT -5
Everything about Micah Parsons is a positive showing personality, supposedly well liked by teammates, his play, work ethic........ except for this issue with the hazing. And apparently it was pretty bad and vulga. 20-21 year olds do make stupid mistakes. Hopefully something like this was an outlier not a personality disorder. I would love his talent on the Giants but the team needs to think long and hard and get to the bottom of that incident. Tough decision to make on an exceptional talent. Is this young man going to grow up and put this behind him or is this a red flag to run away from. I think he has already put this behind him. It’s the fans and detractors who keep bringing it up. This kid can flat out play. We seen what Graham can do on a defense, let’s give him more pieces to work with. And that starts with the best linebacker in the draft. No more taking a flyer on an unknown late round pick. Or overpaying for a player who’s best years are behind him. It’s been 37 years since we drafted a linebacker in the 1st round. That’s way too long for a franchise that used to pride themselves at the position. Everyone wants offense.. offense. I’ll still stick to my roots, we’re a defensive franchise. Always have been, always will be. Let’s make a good defense, great again. And if he hasn't. We blew another 1st rounder... And I get your fervor. Been a Giants fan since '56. Defense is King.
Problem is- we are not going to win many games by going 1 touchdown and 3 field goals...16 to 10. Because we have a great defense but can't score.
We need balance. We just do. Fix the O line and back up the receiver corps in case we loose Shep. Get insurance at RB. Go for the best defensive player that can rush the QB in round 2, not named Parsons.
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Post by TEM on Apr 18, 2021 14:55:53 GMT -5
He opted out and has issues outside of football. That is risky move at 11.
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Post by TEM on Apr 18, 2021 15:02:27 GMT -5
I think he has already put this behind him. It’s the fans and detractors who keep bringing it up. This kid can flat out play. We seen what Graham can do on a defense, let’s give him more pieces to work with. And that starts with the best linebacker in the draft. No more taking a flyer on an unknown late round pick. Or overpaying for a player who’s best years are behind him. It’s been 37 years since we drafted a linebacker in the 1st round. That’s way too long for a franchise that used to pride themselves at the position. Everyone wants offense.. offense. I’ll still stick to my roots, we’re a defensive franchise. Always have been, always will be. Let’s make a good defense, great again. And if he hasn't. We blew another 1st rounder... And I get your fervor. Been a Giants fan since '56. Defense is King.
Problem is- we are not going to win many games by going 1 touchdown and 3 field goals...16 to 10. Because we have a great defense but can't score.
We need balance. We just do. Fix the O line and back up the receiver corps in case we loose Shep. Get insurance at RB. Go for the best defensive player that can rush the QB in round 2, not named Parsons.
Nailed it. |
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 18, 2021 15:11:54 GMT -5
I think he has already put this behind him. It’s the fans and detractors who keep bringing it up. This kid can flat out play. We seen what Graham can do on a defense, let’s give him more pieces to work with. And that starts with the best linebacker in the draft. No more taking a flyer on an unknown late round pick. Or overpaying for a player who’s best years are behind him. It’s been 37 years since we drafted a linebacker in the 1st round. That’s way too long for a franchise that used to pride themselves at the position. Everyone wants offense.. offense. I’ll still stick to my roots, we’re a defensive franchise. Always have been, always will be. Let’s make a good defense, great again. And if he hasn't. We blew another 1st rounder... And I get your fervor. Been a Giants fan since '56. Defense is King.
Problem is- we are not going to win many games by going 1 touchdown and 3 field goals...16 to 10. Because we have a great defense but can't score.
We need balance. We just do. Fix the O line and back up the receiver corps in case we loose Shep. Get insurance at RB. Go for the best defensive player that can rush the QB in round 2, not named Parsons.
Of course we need balance. That’s why we signed Golladay to a huge contract. Also signed Rudolph and a bunch of receivers for depth, getting Barkley back, signed Booker as our back up running back. Signed two offensive lineman, Jonotthan Harrison, and Zach Fulton. We also snagged a young assistant Russ Callaway. This whole offseason besides Williams and Jackson has been addressing the offense. I want an edge rusher, but there isn’t one who is worth the 11th overall pick. And as much as I want an offensive lineman, I know Slater and Sewell are long shots. So, why not bring the best linebacker in the Country to an already good defense? Let’s makes a strength that much stronger.. |
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Post by 3days on Apr 18, 2021 16:07:18 GMT -5
He is the only defensive player I would be happy with at 11, that said would be much, much happier with one of the top OL or Smith.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 18, 2021 16:20:21 GMT -5
He opted out and has issues outside of football. That is risky move at 11. If his past actions concern you I understand and if you believe his past character flaw doesn't allow him to make amends, I could understand that. Opting out does't raise any flags with me though. Didn't Slater, Chase, and Sewell opt out also? I don't see why opting should affect his draft status. Especially if he had the desire to keep himself in shape and prepare and excel at his proday. If anything it benefitted him as he proved he can motivate himself. I actually think the players that opted out are the smarter ones of bunch. They properly calculated the risks and benefits of playing an extra year in the middle of a pandemic and shortened season. They insured their health and a chance to get drafted and make money. Instead of a chance to get injured or sick for free. |
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Post by TEM on Apr 18, 2021 16:31:46 GMT -5
He opted out and has issues outside of football. That is risky move at 11. If his past actions concern you I understand and if you believe his past character flaw doesn't allow him to make amends, I could understand that. Opting out does't raise any flags with me though. Didn't Slater, Chase, and Sewell opt out also? I don't see why opting should affect his draft status. Especially if he had the desire to keep himself in shape and prepare and excel at his proday. If anything it benefitted him as he proved he can motivate himself. I actually think the players that opted out are the smarter ones of bunch. They properly calculated the risks and benefits of playing an extra year in the middle of a pandemic and shortened season. They insured their health and a chance to get drafted and make money. Instead of a chance to get injured or sick for free. I see it differently.. You either want to play football or you do not. It is that simple . Teams invest a lot on players. Not playing football did not decrease their odds of contracting it. The statistical rates were the same for the public and athletes. An underlying medical condition. That l agree with. Minimize you exposer. That was not the case with these guys . How could you play football with a condition? You have to ask how committed to football are they? I got it twice from the same guy I work with. I still have to go to work and take my chances so l can earn a living. I am sorry I call a duck a duck. What would the country look like today if everyone decided to opt out. Grocery store workers, Medical workers. Delivery service workers....... Pharmaceutical. Workers...... Those people are dedicated. The model the over valued inflated head prima donnas should follow. |
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 18, 2021 18:51:13 GMT -5
If his past actions concern you I understand and if you believe his past character flaw doesn't allow him to make amends, I could understand that. Opting out does't raise any flags with me though. Didn't Slater, Chase, and Sewell opt out also? I don't see why opting should affect his draft status. Especially if he had the desire to keep himself in shape and prepare and excel at his proday. If anything it benefitted him as he proved he can motivate himself. I actually think the players that opted out are the smarter ones of bunch. They properly calculated the risks and benefits of playing an extra year in the middle of a pandemic and shortened season. They insured their health and a chance to get drafted and make money. Instead of a chance to get injured or sick for free. I see it differently.. You either want to play football or you do not. It is that simple . Teams invest a lot on players. Not playing football did not decrease their odds of contracting it. The statistical rates were the same for the public and athletes. An underlying medical condition. That l agree with. Minimize you exposer. That was not the case with these guys . How could you play football with a condition? You have to ask how committed to football are they? I got it twice from the same guy I work with. I still have to go to work and take my chances so l can earn a living. I am sorry I call a duck a duck. What would the country look like today if everyone decided to opt out. Grocery store workers, Medical workers. Delivery service workers....... Pharmaceutical. Workers...... Those people are dedicated. The model the over valued inflated head prima donnas should follow. You make a good point but this isn't about dedication to a job. They don't get paid and they were going to get drafted anyway. This is about insuring their health against injuries and sickness and making thier services available on to the NFL and getting a paycheck. Opting out doesn't diminish their talent. If NFL teams are knocking players that sat out there are other teams will take that talent. Me personally I wouldn't care if they opted out but I hope my competitors do, so my team gets better. Sorry you didn't get the option to opt out like the college did but college athlete don't get paid and most aren't paying for thier own house, food or dependants. I don't think the majority of paid workers got to opt out Ike you or me. I would have been interesting to see how "dedicated" people are if they were given the choice. I would have taken it in a heartbeat knowing what I know now. Instead I got laid off so it still worked out as I was freed from my loyalty to my job. Loyalty is a one way street. Maybe if I didn't get laid off my view would be similar to yours but employers don't look out for you, only the bottom line. |
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Post by SemperFi on Apr 18, 2021 19:03:13 GMT -5
And if he hasn't. We blew another 1st rounder... And I get your fervor. Been a Giants fan since '56. Defense is King.
Problem is- we are not going to win many games by going 1 touchdown and 3 field goals...16 to 10. Because we have a great defense but can't score.
We need balance. We just do. Fix the O line and back up the receiver corps in case we loose Shep. Get insurance at RB. Go for the best defensive player that can rush the QB in round 2, not named Parsons.
Of course we need balance. That’s why we signed Golladay to a huge contract. Also signed Rudolph and a bunch of receivers for depth, getting Barkley back, signed Booker as our back up running back. Signed two offensive lineman, Jonotthan Harrison, and Zach Fulton. We also snagged a young assistant Russ Callaway. This whole offseason besides Williams and Jackson has been addressing the offense. I want an edge rusher, but there isn’t one who is worth the 11th overall pick. And as much as I want an offensive lineman, I know Slater and Sewell are long shots. So, why not bring the best linebacker in the Country to an already good defense? Let’s makes a strength that much stronger.. If the Giants pick Parsons at 11, I will be thrilled. I trust they will have vetted him completely and feel the risk of his failing is very small. We will know soon enough. "In Judge, we trust"! |
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Post by TEM on Apr 18, 2021 19:04:37 GMT -5
I see it differently.. You either want to play football or you do not. It is that simple . Teams invest a lot on players. Not playing football did not decrease their odds of contracting it. The statistical rates were the same for the public and athletes. An underlying medical condition. That l agree with. Minimize you exposer. That was not the case with these guys . How could you play football with a condition? You have to ask how committed to football are they? I got it twice from the same guy I work with. I still have to go to work and take my chances so l can earn a living. I am sorry I call a duck a duck. What would the country look like today if everyone decided to opt out. Grocery store workers, Medical workers. Delivery service workers....... Pharmaceutical. Workers...... Those people are dedicated. The model the over valued inflated head prima donnas should follow. You make a good point but this isn't about dedication to a job. They don't get paid and they were going to get drafted anyway. This is about insuring their health against injuries and sickness and making thier services available on to the NFL and getting a paycheck. Opting out doesn't diminish their talent. If NFL teams are knocking players that sat out there are other teams will take that talent. Me personally I wouldn't care if they opted out but I hope my competitors do, so my team gets better. Sorry you didn't get the option to opt out like the college did but college athlete don't get paid and most aren't paying for thier own house, food or dependants. I don't think the majority of paid workers got to opt out Ike you or me. I would have been interesting to see how "dedicated" people are if they were given the choice. I would have taken it in a heartbeat knowing what I know now. Instead I got laid off so it still worked out as I was freed from my loyalty to my job. Loyalty is a one way street. Maybe if I didn't get laid off my view would be similar to yours but employers don't look out for you, only the bottom line. But they do .They get the free education that the rest of us have or had to maintain a GPA just to get loans for. Most do not have a choice . Don't work ,don't pay your bills. It is a 0 sum argument for them. |
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Post by Nite on Apr 18, 2021 19:16:05 GMT -5
You make a good point but this isn't about dedication to a job. They don't get paid and they were going to get drafted anyway. This is about insuring their health against injuries and sickness and making thier services available on to the NFL and getting a paycheck. Opting out doesn't diminish their talent. If NFL teams are knocking players that sat out there are other teams will take that talent. Me personally I wouldn't care if they opted out but I hope my competitors do, so my team gets better. Sorry you didn't get the option to opt out like the college did but college athlete don't get paid and most aren't paying for thier own house, food or dependants. I don't think the majority of paid workers got to opt out Ike you or me. I would have been interesting to see how "dedicated" people are if they were given the choice. I would have taken it in a heartbeat knowing what I know now. Instead I got laid off so it still worked out as I was freed from my loyalty to my job. Loyalty is a one way street. Maybe if I didn't get laid off my view would be similar to yours but employers don't look out for you, only the bottom line. But they do .They get the free education that the rest of us have or had to maintain a GPA just to get loans for. Most do not have a choice . Don't work ,don't pay your bills. It is a 0 sum argument for them. In some cases thats equivalent to $200K + for in kind payment, plus they get a degree and a start on work life unburdened by college debt. Unlike the vast majority of their peers. |
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 19, 2021 10:23:53 GMT -5
You make a good point but this isn't about dedication to a job. They don't get paid and they were going to get drafted anyway. This is about insuring their health against injuries and sickness and making thier services available on to the NFL and getting a paycheck. Opting out doesn't diminish their talent. If NFL teams are knocking players that sat out there are other teams will take that talent. Me personally I wouldn't care if they opted out but I hope my competitors do, so my team gets better. Sorry you didn't get the option to opt out like the college did but college athlete don't get paid and most aren't paying for thier own house, food or dependants. I don't think the majority of paid workers got to opt out Ike you or me. I would have been interesting to see how "dedicated" people are if they were given the choice. I would have taken it in a heartbeat knowing what I know now. Instead I got laid off so it still worked out as I was freed from my loyalty to my job. Loyalty is a one way street. Maybe if I didn't get laid off my view would be similar to yours but employers don't look out for you, only the bottom line. But they do .They get the free education that the rest of us have or had to maintain a GPA just to get loans for. Most do not have a choice . Don't work ,don't pay your bills. It is a 0 sum argument for them. I think we are digressing from my original point of why opting out puts a stigma on a prospects character. I understand the view that it shows a lack dedication. As long as you apply those character flaws to Sewell, Slater and other draft picks that opted out and bump the high character guys like Paye and Azeez for showing dedication to the game I don't see an issue with it especially if you feel the Giants roster should be filled with high character guys over more physically talented with questionable characters. Personally I feel if a candidate opted out but dedicated his off time to getting better at his craft and excelled at thier proday shouldn't have a stigma of being less dedicated but should be looked at as guy who is willing to put the work in to get better. Neither decision is wrong to me. |
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Post by TEM on Apr 19, 2021 10:55:01 GMT -5
But they do .They get the free education that the rest of us have or had to maintain a GPA just to get loans for. Most do not have a choice . Don't work ,don't pay your bills. It is a 0 sum argument for them. I think we are digressing from my original point of why opting out puts a stigma on a prospects character. I understand the view that it shows a lack dedication. As long as you apply those character flaws to Sewell, Slater and other draft picks that opted out and bump the high character guys like Paye and Azeez for showing dedication to the game I don't see an issue with it especially if you feel the Giants roster should be filled with high character guys over more physically talented with questionable characters. Personally I feel if a candidate opted out but dedicated his off time to getting better at his craft and excelled at thier proday shouldn't have a stigma of being less dedicated but should be looked at as guy who is willing to put the work in to get better. Neither decision is wrong to me. I disagree You get better by playing |
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Post by imgrate on Apr 19, 2021 12:15:01 GMT -5
I think we are digressing from my original point of why opting out puts a stigma on a prospects character. I understand the view that it shows a lack dedication. As long as you apply those character flaws to Sewell, Slater and other draft picks that opted out and bump the high character guys like Paye and Azeez for showing dedication to the game I don't see an issue with it especially if you feel the Giants roster should be filled with high character guys over more physically talented with questionable characters. Personally I feel if a candidate opted out but dedicated his off time to getting better at his craft and excelled at thier proday shouldn't have a stigma of being less dedicated but should be looked at as guy who is willing to put the work in to get better. Neither decision is wrong to me. I disagree You get better by playing I dont disagree with that, but these guys also potentially worsen their draft position (and your first paycheck) by playing another season. Especially if their tape is already really good. |
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 19, 2021 12:20:46 GMT -5
I disagree You get better by playing I dont disagree with that, but these guys also potentially worsen their draft position (and your first paycheck) by playing another season. Especially if their tape is already really good. The real blue chip guys it probably won't affect one way or the other ... Sewell, Chase, Slater, etc. But other guys it may affect a lot ... for instance a guy like Rousseau could really have helped himself by playing this year. I saw something today that Caleb Farley hasn't played a football game in 512 days! |
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 19, 2021 12:41:19 GMT -5
I dont disagree with that, but these guys also potentially worsen their draft position (and your first paycheck) by playing another season. Especially if their tape is already really good. The real blue chip guys it probably won't affect one way or the other ... Sewell, Chase, Slater, etc. But other guys it may affect a lot ... for instance a guy like Rousseau could really have helped himself by playing this year. I saw something today that Caleb Farley hasn't played a football game in 512 days! and just had back surgery. |
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 19, 2021 12:50:26 GMT -5
The real blue chip guys it probably won't affect one way or the other ... Sewell, Chase, Slater, etc. But other guys it may affect a lot ... for instance a guy like Rousseau could really have helped himself by playing this year. I saw something today that Caleb Farley hasn't played a football game in 512 days! and just had back surgery. His second one! Also had an ACL in college. |
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 19, 2021 12:59:32 GMT -5
I dont disagree with that, but these guys also potentially worsen their draft position (and your first paycheck) by playing another season. Especially if their tape is already really good. The real blue chip guys it probably won't affect one way or the other ... Sewell, Chase, Slater, etc. But other guys it may affect a lot ... for instance a guy like Rousseau could really have helped himself by playing this year. I saw something today that Caleb Farley hasn't played a football game in 512 days! A guy like Rousseau could have also benefitted by getting pro training in his off season to prepare for the draft. His proday was abysmal. I would be very weary of his work ethic. |
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 19, 2021 13:41:10 GMT -5
The real blue chip guys it probably won't affect one way or the other ... Sewell, Chase, Slater, etc. But other guys it may affect a lot ... for instance a guy like Rousseau could really have helped himself by playing this year. I saw something today that Caleb Farley hasn't played a football game in 512 days! A guy like Rousseau could have also benefitted by getting pro training in his off season to prepare for the draft. His proday was abysmal. I would be very weary of his work ethic. Did his pro day performance have anything to do with his preparation? Looked like he was in pretty good shape to me .... |
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 19, 2021 14:47:48 GMT -5
A guy like Rousseau could have also benefitted by getting pro training in his off season to prepare for the draft. His proday was abysmal. I would be very weary of his work ethic. Did his pro day performance have anything to do with his preparation? Looked like he was in pretty good shape to me .... That's the thing you think he would have known he was going to suck if actually trained for it. It is like knowing your weakness is multiplication so you keep doing addition problems and hope no one notices. Maybe he just not that good of a tester or not that athletic. Either way it raises questions what exactly was he training for. |
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Post by imgrate on Apr 19, 2021 14:54:21 GMT -5
I dont disagree with that, but these guys also potentially worsen their draft position (and your first paycheck) by playing another season. Especially if their tape is already really good. The real blue chip guys it probably won't affect one way or the other ... Sewell, Chase, Slater, etc. But other guys it may affect a lot ... for instance a guy like Rousseau could really have helped himself by playing this year. I saw something today that Caleb Farley hasn't played a football game in 512 days! I just think of injury and chance. If Rousseau balled out this year, then yea he's probably a top 10 pick. If he tears his acl in week 2, then he's probably a 4th round pick. If he stays in shape and doesn't get hurt, then probably worst case scenario is early 2nd round pick. And honestly I just checked and the $$ numbers make me look wrong. Jedrick wills, the #10 overall pick got 19.7mill gtd. Leviska Shenault, 10th pick in second round got 4.mill gtd. Ben bartch, 10th pick in 4th round got 760k gtd. |
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 19, 2021 14:59:20 GMT -5
The real blue chip guys it probably won't affect one way or the other ... Sewell, Chase, Slater, etc. But other guys it may affect a lot ... for instance a guy like Rousseau could really have helped himself by playing this year. I saw something today that Caleb Farley hasn't played a football game in 512 days! I just think of injury and chance. If Rousseau balled out this year, then yea he's probably a top 10 pick. If he tears his acl in week 2, then he's probably a 4th round pick. If he stays in shape and doesn't get hurt, then probably worst case scenario is early 2nd round pick. And honestly I just checked and the $$ numbers make me look wrong. Jedrick wills, the #10 overall pick got 19.7mill gtd. Leviska Shenault, 10th pick in second round got 4.mill gtd. Ben bartch, 10th pick in 4th round got 760k gtd. Fair points ... |
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Post by TCHOF on May 5, 2021 14:58:00 GMT -5
Micah Parsons on the Hey Rookie show saying that his dream place to go would be Dallas.
Imagine saying that for all teams to hear right before the draft?
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Post by IrishMike on May 5, 2021 19:05:05 GMT -5
Micah Parsons on the Hey Rookie show saying that his dream place to go would be Dallas. Imagine saying that for all teams to hear right before the draft? A part of me still wishes we took him just to screw Dallas over. He is a great talent. That's pretty shocking he would say that though. Why would that even be his dream? Doesn't he know they stink. |
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