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Post by Kase1 on Apr 23, 2021 12:05:28 GMT -5
I think you mean to say "if we could get an edge rusher in the 3rd or 4th rounds, I will be happy" Unfortunately this is a BAD year for edge rushers, ESPECIALLY 1st round edge rushers Disagree, this is a very deep draft in edge players. There just isn't that wow guy at the top to keep the talking heads busy. If Phillips didn't have his concussion issues, they would be talking about him with Sewell, Chase and Pitts. The perception of the edge class would in turn have a different perception. Draft time is so much about shiny things and not about the meat of it. This edge class is excellent, variable in skill set and deep. WR, OL, Edge, CB are the 4 deepest positions in this draft and in that order. Nice that they are the positions in most need of talent for our team. LB has some top end talent, but little depth. RB has little top end talent and little depth QB is the same as every year with the bonus of a clear top guy. The other 4 are much the same as QBs that come out every year. S is light at the top, but some talent later in the draft, TE is a weak class, it has Pitts and pick your flaws guys through the rest. I don't think there are more than 10 draft able guys here at most. DL is much like safety, weak at the top with has some good talent later. WR, OL, Edge and CB all have a solid top end and deep talent in the draft. Particularly at WR. LMFAO, What This is the WORST draft class for edge rushers in YEARS. Yea, there are a bunch of mid round prospects but nobody that 'wow's' the crowd, hell even Paye, Olujari, Rousseau, Oweh or Tryon would be 2nd round picks in a normal draft year. I agree that WR, OL, and CB are deep this year, but couldnt disagree with your analysis of the edge class any more.
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 23, 2021 12:11:03 GMT -5
IS there any chance that Kwity Paye is like a Justin Tuck type? Or was Tuck more explosive in his younger days? I feel like that would be the closest player comparison for Paye. We play a much different scheme than we did when Tuck was here though
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Post by jmike on Apr 23, 2021 12:22:00 GMT -5
Disagree, this is a very deep draft in edge players. There just isn't that wow guy at the top to keep the talking heads busy. If Phillips didn't have his concussion issues, they would be talking about him with Sewell, Chase and Pitts. The perception of the edge class would in turn have a different perception. Draft time is so much about shiny things and not about the meat of it. This edge class is excellent, variable in skill set and deep. WR, OL, Edge, CB are the 4 deepest positions in this draft and in that order. Nice that they are the positions in most need of talent for our team. LB has some top end talent, but little depth. RB has little top end talent and little depth QB is the same as every year with the bonus of a clear top guy. The other 4 are much the same as QBs that come out every year. S is light at the top, but some talent later in the draft, TE is a weak class, it has Pitts and pick your flaws guys through the rest. I don't think there are more than 10 draft able guys here at most. DL is much like safety, weak at the top with has some good talent later. WR, OL, Edge and CB all have a solid top end and deep talent in the draft. Particularly at WR. LMFAO, What This is the WORST draft class for edge rushers in YEARS. Yea, there are a bunch of mid round prospects but nobody that 'wow's' the crowd, hell even Paye, Olujari, Rousseau, Oweh or Tryon would be 2nd round picks in a normal draft year. I agree that WR, OL, and CB are deep this year, but couldnt disagree with your analysis of the edge class any more. Seems you just like shiny things too. As a class it has more talent than last years for example. It just doesn't have a Chase Young at the top. Which leads many to say it is a down year because they only really look at the top 2 or 3 guys and compare that to other years. Last year's edge class was pretty bad after Young. Much like this year's TE class after Pitts. It would be like saying it is a strong class because of Pitts. This one doesn't have a Young, but has a bunch of next tier guys. You could probably find an edge player as deep as the 4th round that will contribute in year one. You don't get that most years, lucky to find one deep in the 2nd round.
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 23, 2021 12:38:23 GMT -5
LMFAO, What This is the WORST draft class for edge rushers in YEARS. Yea, there are a bunch of mid round prospects but nobody that 'wow's' the crowd, hell even Paye, Olujari, Rousseau, Oweh or Tryon would be 2nd round picks in a normal draft year. I agree that WR, OL, and CB are deep this year, but couldnt disagree with your analysis of the edge class any more. Seems you just like shiny things too. As a class it has more talent than last years for example. It just doesn't have a Chase Young at the top. Which leads many to say it is a down year because they only really look at the top 2 or 3 guys and compare that to other years. Last year's edge class was pretty bad after Young. Much like this year's TE class after Pitts. It would be like saying it is a strong class because of Pitts. This one doesn't have a Young, but has a bunch of next tier guys. You could probably find an edge player as deep as the 4th round that will contribute in year one. You don't get that most years, lucky to find one deep in the 2nd round. Well my wife DOES say that I like gaudy things, LOL if these guys were coming out last year, NONE of them would be 1st rounders. This years draft class at edge rusher is filled with 2nd-4th round talent, in my eyes thats a very average class
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Post by jmike on Apr 23, 2021 12:51:17 GMT -5
Seems you just like shiny things too. As a class it has more talent than last years for example. It just doesn't have a Chase Young at the top. Which leads many to say it is a down year because they only really look at the top 2 or 3 guys and compare that to other years. Last year's edge class was pretty bad after Young. Much like this year's TE class after Pitts. It would be like saying it is a strong class because of Pitts. This one doesn't have a Young, but has a bunch of next tier guys. You could probably find an edge player as deep as the 4th round that will contribute in year one. You don't get that most years, lucky to find one deep in the 2nd round. Well my wife DOES say that I like gaudy things, LOL if these guys were coming out last year, NONE of them would be 1st rounders. This years draft class at edge rusher is filled with 2nd-4th round talent, in my eyes thats a very average class Last year the only edge guys in the first were Young and Chaisson. None of the top 3 this year are as good as Young. All of them are better than Chaisson as prospects. Next one to go was Gross-Matos with the 6th pick in the 2nd. There are at least 2 other guys, maybe 3 that are as good prospects as he was last year. Next 2 to go were Taylor and Davidson. Peyton Turner is as good a prospect as Taylor and he's looking like a 3rd round pick. Sorry, can't agree with you on this. Other than Young, this class is better than last year top to bottom and it really isn't close IMO.
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 23, 2021 13:39:15 GMT -5
Well my wife DOES say that I like gaudy things, LOL if these guys were coming out last year, NONE of them would be 1st rounders. This years draft class at edge rusher is filled with 2nd-4th round talent, in my eyes thats a very average class Last year the only edge guys in the first were Young and Chaisson. None of the top 3 this year are as good as Young. All of them are better than Chaisson as prospects. Next one to go was Gross-Matos with the 6th pick in the 2nd. There are at least 2 other guys, maybe 3 that are as good prospects as he was last year. Next 2 to go were Taylor and Davidson. Peyton Turner is as good a prospect as Taylor and he's looking like a 3rd round pick. Sorry, can't agree with you on this. Other than Young, this class is better than last year top to bottom and it really isn't close IMO. Thats fine, we dont have to agree
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Post by vinnie on Apr 23, 2021 20:56:44 GMT -5
Picking any edge in this class at 11 would be a massive reach which is why I fully expect DG to pick an edge.
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Post by jmike on Apr 24, 2021 8:26:29 GMT -5
Picking any edge in this class at 11 would be a massive reach which is why I fully expect DG to pick an edge. In most of these draft projection the first edge player off the board is picked no later than 14. We pick at 11; I'd say "massive reach" is a bit of an exaggeration. 2 players go between 11 and 14....2...massive? I think not.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 24, 2021 8:37:55 GMT -5
Picking any edge in this class at 11 would be a massive reach which is why I fully expect DG to pick an edge. safe bet he’ll tell the press “you can never have enough pass rushers” despite later picks which haven’t worked out and reaching here lol.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 26, 2021 10:04:02 GMT -5
IS there any chance that Kwity Paye is like a Justin Tuck type? Or was Tuck more explosive in his younger days? I feel like that would be the closest player comparison for Paye. We play a much different scheme than we did when Tuck was here though I think Paye is more explosive then Tuck was tho thats his strength speed agility and power still wouldn't be right for this defense or at least the best fit. Think Ojulari is the best fit he can do some of everything play hand in dirt or standing and get into coverage and has been really good against the run. Saying that don't see any of these guys being the highest rated guys on the board even tho the latter is climbing.
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Post by thetruth on Apr 26, 2021 10:09:29 GMT -5
I feel like that would be the closest player comparison for Paye. We play a much different scheme than we did when Tuck was here though I think Paye is more explosive then Tuck was tho thats his strength speed agility and power still wouldn't be right for this defense or at least the best fit. Think Ojulari is the best fit he can do some of everything play hand in dirt or standing and get into coverage and has been really good against the run. Saying that don't see any of these guys being the highest rated guys on the board even tho the latter is climbing. Paye is a better athelete but has no idea what he's doing when pass rushing. Its why he only had 11 sacks in 4 years. His pass rush skillset leave a lot to be desired and is a projection
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wtfjjk
Special Teams
Posts: 1,195
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Post by wtfjjk on Apr 26, 2021 11:12:13 GMT -5
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Post by jmike on Apr 26, 2021 11:31:15 GMT -5
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 26, 2021 11:32:27 GMT -5
Do you really want to hurt me?? Do you really want to make me cry??
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Post by jmike on Apr 26, 2021 11:36:02 GMT -5
Do you really want to hurt me?? Do you really want to make me cry?? LMAO!
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 26, 2021 11:53:07 GMT -5
Do you really want to hurt me?? Do you really want to make me cry?? This is what many of us are saying to Gettleman right now in regards to thinking about taking Paye at 11
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Post by jmike on Apr 26, 2021 12:11:09 GMT -5
Do you really want to hurt me?? Do you really want to make me cry?? This is what many of us are saying to Gettleman right now in regards to thinking about taking Paye at 11 Biggest argument against picking him it seems is "Doesn't fit the defense." So if the Giants pick him, this assumes the poster knows more about what fits the Giants defense than Judge and his staff. Now does that make sense to you? I sure hope not. Which you all might be right, maybe he doesn't fit and I am off base. If that is the case then he won't be the pick. He won't be the pick if better players are there either. If I were to wager, I think one of the 2 'bama receivers is the pick, I don't think they both will be gone. I like the kid quite a bit, but I also don't see a scenario where he would me my preferred choice left on the board at 11. But wtf do I know, I'm just some idiot fan with opinions. If they take him they got a hell of a player that obviously fits what they want to do on defense. Because they wouldn't pick a player that doesn't fit what they want.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 26, 2021 12:16:25 GMT -5
This is what many of us are saying to Gettleman right now in regards to thinking about taking Paye at 11 Biggest argument against picking him it seems is "Doesn't fit the defense." So if the Giants pick him, this assumes the poster knows more about what fits the Giants defense than Judge and his staff. Now does that make sense to you? I sure hope not. Which you all might be right, maybe he doesn't fit and I am off base. If that is the case then he won't be the pick. He won't be the pick if better players are there either. If I were to wager, I think one of the 2 'bama receivers is the pick, I don't think they both will be gone. I like the kid quite a bit, but I also don't see a scenario where he would me my preferred choice left on the board at 11. But wtf do I know, I'm just some idiot fan with opinions. If they take him they got a hell of a player that obviously fits what they want to do on defense. Because they wouldn't pick a player that doesn't fit what they want. It's more the mock draft industry insisting Paye is a fit and a few idiots on bbv that saw his workout warrior numbers and think Graham is a miracle worker and cam make him fit that spew the ignorance... Paye to a 3/4 base not only would be a bad pick for the team but probably kill his career before it gets started
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Post by jmike on Apr 26, 2021 12:24:21 GMT -5
Biggest argument against picking him it seems is "Doesn't fit the defense." So if the Giants pick him, this assumes the poster knows more about what fits the Giants defense than Judge and his staff. Now does that make sense to you? I sure hope not. Which you all might be right, maybe he doesn't fit and I am off base. If that is the case then he won't be the pick. He won't be the pick if better players are there either. If I were to wager, I think one of the 2 'bama receivers is the pick, I don't think they both will be gone. I like the kid quite a bit, but I also don't see a scenario where he would me my preferred choice left on the board at 11. But wtf do I know, I'm just some idiot fan with opinions. If they take him they got a hell of a player that obviously fits what they want to do on defense. Because they wouldn't pick a player that doesn't fit what they want. It's more the mock draft industry insisting Paye is a fit and a few idiots on bbv that saw his workout warrior numbers and think Graham is a miracle worker and cam make him fit that spew the ignorance... Paye to a 3/4 base not only would be a bad pick for the team but probably kill his career before it gets started LOL...ok. I loved the 90s, nice to be back there again.
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 26, 2021 15:47:14 GMT -5
Biggest argument against picking him it seems is "Doesn't fit the defense." So if the Giants pick him, this assumes the poster knows more about what fits the Giants defense than Judge and his staff. Now does that make sense to you? I sure hope not. Which you all might be right, maybe he doesn't fit and I am off base. If that is the case then he won't be the pick. He won't be the pick if better players are there either. If I were to wager, I think one of the 2 'bama receivers is the pick, I don't think they both will be gone. I like the kid quite a bit, but I also don't see a scenario where he would me my preferred choice left on the board at 11. But wtf do I know, I'm just some idiot fan with opinions. If they take him they got a hell of a player that obviously fits what they want to do on defense. Because they wouldn't pick a player that doesn't fit what they want. It's more the mock draft industry insisting Paye is a fit and a few idiots on bbv that saw his workout warrior numbers and think Graham is a miracle worker and cam make him fit that spew the ignorance... Paye to a 3/4 base not only would be a bad pick for the team but probably kill his career before it gets started SOMEONE gets it
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 26, 2021 15:50:45 GMT -5
Biggest argument against picking him it seems is "Doesn't fit the defense." So if the Giants pick him, this assumes the poster knows more about what fits the Giants defense than Judge and his staff. Now does that make sense to you? I sure hope not. Which you all might be right, maybe he doesn't fit and I am off base. If that is the case then he won't be the pick. He won't be the pick if better players are there either. If I were to wager, I think one of the 2 'bama receivers is the pick, I don't think they both will be gone. I like the kid quite a bit, but I also don't see a scenario where he would me my preferred choice left on the board at 11. But wtf do I know, I'm just some idiot fan with opinions. If they take him they got a hell of a player that obviously fits what they want to do on defense. Because they wouldn't pick a player that doesn't fit what they want. It's more the mock draft industry insisting Paye is a fit and a few idiots on bbv that saw his workout warrior numbers and think Graham is a miracle worker and cam make him fit that spew the ignorance... Paye to a 3/4 base not only would be a bad pick for the team but probably kill his career before it gets started If we drafted Paye, wouldn't that mean that Patrick Graham had signed off on him? I mean, no chance that Judge is on board with a defensive pick until he gets Graham's buy-in, right?
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 26, 2021 16:18:40 GMT -5
It's more the mock draft industry insisting Paye is a fit and a few idiots on bbv that saw his workout warrior numbers and think Graham is a miracle worker and cam make him fit that spew the ignorance... Paye to a 3/4 base not only would be a bad pick for the team but probably kill his career before it gets started If we drafted Paye, wouldn't that mean that Patrick Graham had signed off on him? I mean, no chance that Judge is on board with a defensive pick until he gets Graham's buy-in, right? Why would he sign off on a guy who is a bad scheme fit and would have to experiment for at least a year if not 2 how to use him ? Especially when there are much better scheme fits if they wanted to reach for am edge rusher? Luckily seems very little smoke id any other than the twats that don't watch one ounce of our games...
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 26, 2021 17:00:33 GMT -5
If we drafted Paye, wouldn't that mean that Patrick Graham had signed off on him? I mean, no chance that Judge is on board with a defensive pick until he gets Graham's buy-in, right? Why would he sign off on a guy who is a bad scheme fit and would have to experiment for at least a year if not 2 how to use him ? Especially when there are much better scheme fits if they wanted to reach for am edge rusher? Luckily seems very little smoke id any other than the twats that don't watch one ounce of our games... So you think that Judge would sign off on a defensive pick without Graham’s buy-in? I highly doubt that. If we pick him, it will mean that Graham wants him. If Graham doesn’t think he’s a good fit, we won’t draft him.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 26, 2021 17:07:01 GMT -5
Why would he sign off on a guy who is a bad scheme fit and would have to experiment for at least a year if not 2 how to use him ? Especially when there are much better scheme fits if they wanted to reach for am edge rusher? Luckily seems very little smoke id any other than the twats that don't watch one ounce of our games... So you think that Judge would sign off on a defensive pick without Graham’s buy-in? I highly doubt that. If we pick him, it will mean that Graham wants him. If Graham doesn’t think he’s a good fit, we won’t draft him. Sometimes a coordinator has an oversized ego thinking he can turn a square peg into a round one...we see this all over the NFL...especially if they put up workout warrior numbers during workout season Both sides of the ball Who's idea was it to dump Ron Dayne into a WCO where it was a finesse style running attack with us for instance... Or Clint Sintam (over Max under)with our first 2nd round pick when we were not playing anything remotely close to what his strengths are.? If there is no concensus and the clock is ticking this is what often happens when the GM basically has to make a pick and he just says I'm taking this guy ,,try to mold him. I would really hope Graham has put together a list of guys that doesn't have his name on it for early pick
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Post by jb456 on Apr 26, 2021 20:26:36 GMT -5
I think Paye is more explosive then Tuck was tho thats his strength speed agility and power still wouldn't be right for this defense or at least the best fit. Think Ojulari is the best fit he can do some of everything play hand in dirt or standing and get into coverage and has been really good against the run. Saying that don't see any of these guys being the highest rated guys on the board even tho the latter is climbing. Paye is a better athelete but has no idea what he's doing when pass rushing. Its why he only had 11 sacks in 4 years. His pass rush skillset leave a lot to be desired and is a projection Why does Paye have such a high projection? Edge with 11 sacks in 4 years is similar to eating 12 white castle hamburgers and drinking a gallon of malt liquor. The results are similar to having flare up of Colitis and Crohns disease. Can't they draft an edge player who can't get to the QB in the 3rd round?
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Post by thetruth on Apr 26, 2021 22:42:04 GMT -5
Paye is a better athelete but has no idea what he's doing when pass rushing. Its why he only had 11 sacks in 4 years. His pass rush skillset leave a lot to be desired and is a projection Why does Paye have such a high projection? Edge with 11 sacks in 4 years is similar to eating 12 white castle hamburgers and drinking a gallon of malt liquor. The results are similar to having flare up of Colitis and Crohns disease. Can't they draft an edge player who can't get to the QB in the 3rd round? High floor player whos great against the run. Just wont ever be a great pass rusher. Very hard to develop those skills if you dont have them in college.
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Post by jmike on Apr 27, 2021 7:52:47 GMT -5
Why would he sign off on a guy who is a bad scheme fit and would have to experiment for at least a year if not 2 how to use him ? Especially when there are much better scheme fits if they wanted to reach for am edge rusher? Luckily seems very little smoke id any other than the twats that don't watch one ounce of our games... So you think that Judge would sign off on a defensive pick without Graham’s buy-in? I highly doubt that. If we pick him, it will mean that Graham wants him. If Graham doesn’t think he’s a good fit, we won’t draft him. Which is exactly my point. Thank you.
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Post by jmike on Apr 27, 2021 7:56:06 GMT -5
So you think that Judge would sign off on a defensive pick without Graham’s buy-in? I highly doubt that. If we pick him, it will mean that Graham wants him. If Graham doesn’t think he’s a good fit, we won’t draft him. Sometimes a coordinator has an oversized ego thinking he can turn a square peg into a round one...we see this all over the NFL...especially if they put up workout warrior numbers during workout season Both sides of the ball Who's idea was it to dump Ron Dayne into a WCO where it was a finesse style running attack with us for instance... Or Clint Sintam (over Max under)with our first 2nd round pick when we were not playing anything remotely close to what his strengths are.? If there is no concensus and the clock is ticking this is what often happens when the GM basically has to make a pick and he just says I'm taking this guy ,,try to mold him. I would really hope Graham has put together a list of guys that doesn't have his name on it for early pick So, if I am reading this right, if the Giants do in fact end up drafting Paye, it isn't because they feel he fits, it is because Graham has an oversized ego? Or is it, they do think he fits but are just idiots because giantlegacy understands what the Giants want to do on defense better than the Giants defensive coordinator?
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 27, 2021 8:00:00 GMT -5
Sometimes a coordinator has an oversized ego thinking he can turn a square peg into a round one...we see this all over the NFL...especially if they put up workout warrior numbers during workout season Both sides of the ball Who's idea was it to dump Ron Dayne into a WCO where it was a finesse style running attack with us for instance... Or Clint Sintam (over Max under)with our first 2nd round pick when we were not playing anything remotely close to what his strengths are.? If there is no concensus and the clock is ticking this is what often happens when the GM basically has to make a pick and he just says I'm taking this guy ,,try to mold him. I would really hope Graham has put together a list of guys that doesn't have his name on it for early pick So, if I am reading this right, if the Giants do in fact end up drafting Paye, it isn't because they feel he fits, it is because Graham has an oversized ego? Or is it, they do think he fits but are just idiots because giantlegacy understands what the Giants want to do on defense better than the Giants defensive coordinator? How does a guy with remedial pass rush skills at best who at best will be a run shopping DE that is best fit for a 4/3 a better fit than a potential shut down corner that can help the back end force a qb to hold the ball a little longer to help what we have (Paye will not be any better than any of our edge rushers currently on roster,you can't take a guy like this at 11)at 11? A run stopping at best 4/3 rotational guy at 11 Lol Ok
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Post by jmike on Apr 27, 2021 8:05:46 GMT -5
Paye is a better athelete but has no idea what he's doing when pass rushing. Its why he only had 11 sacks in 4 years. His pass rush skillset leave a lot to be desired and is a projection Why does Paye have such a high projection? Edge with 11 sacks in 4 years is similar to eating 12 white castle hamburgers and drinking a gallon of malt liquor. The results are similar to having flare up of Colitis and Crohns disease. Can't they draft an edge player who can't get to the QB in the 3rd round? Mostly because scouts and coaches tend to watch these players play a lot. Much of what a football player can provide to a defense doesn't show up on the stat sheet. If you are looking for a pure pass rusher, you could find one in the 3rd or 4th round, but they will do little else for the defense. Ryan Anderson is such a player coming out for example. Generally speaking players that go high in the draft on defense are good in multiple areas. Paye is not an outside pass rusher, if that is all you want, he isn't the player. He is a player that pressures the backfield on both run and pass from multiple angles and alignments. He's a player that can set the edge, control the LOS. If you are looking for an Osi Umenyiora type edge rusher, he isn't that. People here talk about "scheme fit" and what they mean is "role fit". Many are looking for that traditional pass rushing outside linebacker role. Which is fine, I agree the Giants need that. Paye doesn't fit that role, this does not mean he doesn't fit the Giants scheme. He does fit the scheme, just not that role.
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