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Post by TEM on May 23, 2021 17:13:48 GMT -5
gmenhq.com/2021/05/23/ny-giants-shortest-fastest-receivers-nfc-east/2/I feel the need for speed. It seems we have the fastest WR group in the NFC East. With an average 40 time of 4.44 . With John Ross being the fastest with 4.42 The WFT have the second with an average speed of 4.43 but that does not include Cam Sims time of 4.59 (unofficial). He refused to run it. Dallas is in 3rd with an average time of 4.48. Philly is the slowest with Smith's unofficial time of 4.29 Coach I need more sticking compound on my hands. The WFT has the highest team catch percentage with 66% Allen Humphries leads Washington with 71% Dallas comes in 2nd with a team catch percentage of 60% Lamb being the best on the roster with 67% The giants are 3rd in the catch department with a team average of 55% Ross with 42% Golliday with 58% Shep having the highest with 67% "Shepard is a bit of an outlier. He is the shortest receiver in the division, but only two receivers across the NFC East have highest career catch percentages. His abilities cannot be overstated for the Giants"The Eagles have a team catch percentage of 54% How is the view from up there?Dallas has the tallest receiver group with a team height average WR of 73.8 inches. Just under 6'2" Washington comes in 2nd in getting hit by rain first with a WR height average of 72.6inches Just over 6' The Giants and Philly are tied for last with an average WR height of 72.2 inches a hair over 6' Golliday is the 2nd tallest in the devision 76 inches Shep is the shortest at 70 inches. All 4 teams are built differently as it pertains to their wideout group. Speed, hands , height all have their advantages . My thoughts: Speed gets off the line separation. Without hands or height .Some balls will not be caught Height gives a WR an advantage . Without speed or sure hands he may not get the opportunity to jump for the ball and bring it down. Good hands without speed or height may not move the chains. Me I think a team needs a combination of receivers with these 3 qualities.
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Post by giantlegacy on May 23, 2021 18:00:44 GMT -5
I actually think hight is the most overrated quality
But you need a combo of speed,hands and the most major omission from this. Good route running in this era..
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jay051
Special Teams
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Post by jay051 on May 23, 2021 18:10:06 GMT -5
I actually think hight is the most overrated quality But you need a combo of speed,hands and the most major omission from this. Good route running in this era.. Yup. Height is definitely an overrated quality even though its nice to have for 50/50 balls. Steve Smith had the combination of hands, route running and deceptive speed while here in NY. Nicks had all that plus power. |
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Post by Zimonami on May 23, 2021 18:28:54 GMT -5
You can be the tallest and/or the fastest, but without good hands you ain't playing in the NFL. There are dozens of shorter, slower receivers who were successful in the NFL. The entire receiving corps of the '86 Giants were called the Smurfs.. Neither fast nor tall, but reliable. There has never been a single successful WR in the NFL with bad hands.
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robl
Special Teams
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Post by robl on May 23, 2021 18:36:28 GMT -5
Wes Welker.
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Post by giantlegacy on May 23, 2021 18:45:38 GMT -5
I actually think hight is the most overrated quality But you need a combo of speed,hands and the most major omission from this. Good route running in this era.. Yup. Height is definitely an overrated quality even though its nice to have for 50/50 balls. Steve Smith had the combination of hands, route running and deceptive speed while here in NY. Nicks had all that plus power. Odell is actually the prototype for a modern type WR that i love... The catch radius he created was insane and what he was able to do with the ball post catch was next level as well He had everything but hight but he didn't need it |
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Post by JoeBigBlue on May 23, 2021 18:48:27 GMT -5
Odell was relatively short.
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Post by McCherry on May 23, 2021 18:49:35 GMT -5
Here's a list of the 40 times of the top-10 receivers in 2020. Hill is the only one on the list under 6 feet and less than 190 lbs.
Stefon Diggs - 4.5
Travis Kelce - 4.7
Deandre Hopkins - 4.5
Justin Jefferson - 4.4
Davante Adams - 4.5
Calvin Ridley - 4.4
DK Metcalf - 4.3
Tyreek Hill - 4.2
Allen Robinson - 4.6
Darren Waller - 4.5
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Post by Zimonami on May 23, 2021 21:12:23 GMT -5
Here's a list of the 40 times of the top receivers from 2020. Hill is the only one in the top-10 under 6 feet. Stefon Diggs - 4.5 Travis Kelce - 4.7 Deandre Hopkins - 4.5 Justin Jefferson - 4.4 Davante Adams - 4.5 Calvin Ridley - 4.4 DK Metcalf - 4.3 Tyreek Hill - 4.2 Allen Robinson - 4.6 Darren Waller - 4.5 We all know that players get taller, stronger, faster. So, this means nothing because not a single one of them would be on that list if he had bad hands. Naturally if you have a 6'3" dude and his competition is 5'10, and they both have good hands, the taller guy will get most of the snaps, unless the short guy has ace moves and the tall guy is a dud, like our 2020 receivers. But if a taller and and or faster guy has bad hands he isn't on anyone's team. |
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Post by Blue Hulk on May 23, 2021 21:17:32 GMT -5
Here's a list of the 40 times of the top receivers from 2020. Hill is the only one in the top-10 under 6 feet. Stefon Diggs - 4.5 Travis Kelce - 4.7 Deandre Hopkins - 4.5 Justin Jefferson - 4.4 Davante Adams - 4.5 Calvin Ridley - 4.4 DK Metcalf - 4.3 Tyreek Hill - 4.2 Allen Robinson - 4.6 Darren Waller - 4.5 Kenny Golladay runs a 4.5 |
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Post by Jomo on May 23, 2021 21:21:54 GMT -5
Heart and smart
Start there....
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Post by fishinthesalt on May 23, 2021 21:47:25 GMT -5
Plaxico had all 3 but was missing brains. Need those too.
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Post by giantlegacy on May 23, 2021 23:03:03 GMT -5
Here's a list of the 40 times of the top receivers from 2020. Hill is the only one in the top-10 under 6 feet. Stefon Diggs - 4.5 Travis Kelce - 4.7 Deandre Hopkins - 4.5 Justin Jefferson - 4.4 Davante Adams - 4.5 Calvin Ridley - 4.4 DK Metcalf - 4.3 Tyreek Hill - 4.2 Allen Robinson - 4.6 Darren Waller - 4.5 Kenny Golladay runs a 4.5 He also has 2 TEs and a useless possession receicer (Robinson)that teams weren't frightened on that list as well |
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Post by TCHOF on May 24, 2021 4:20:16 GMT -5
Kenny Golladay runs a 4.5 He also has 2 TEs and a useless possession receicer (Robinson)that teams weren't frightened on that list as well Robinson is a “useless possession receiver”? |
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Post by moecoastie on May 24, 2021 6:15:51 GMT -5
Ive never heard of a crappy receiver with good hands. Same cannot be said about tall or fast receivers Of course you may argue that a threshold must be met. Maybe running a 4.5 and atleast 5'10?
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Post by TEM on May 24, 2021 6:54:36 GMT -5
Ive never heard of a crappy receiver with good hands. Same cannot be said about tall or fast receivers Of course you may argue that a threshold must be met. Maybe running a 4.5 and atleast 5'10? Domenik Hixon I cant say was a crappy receiver. He was missing something. He had a career 61% completion percentage and only a career 26% offensive snap count Manningham had a 58% completion percentage and 47% snap count. Hicks had a 55% completion percentage and 53% snap count. Cruz had a 59.5 %completion percentage and 67.5 percent snap count. Although Hixon had good hands he was not played as much as his other 3 counterparts. He had the hands but lacked something else that kept him off the field. His hands were used more as a returner because he most likely could not run a proper route. Why this whole study is opinionated an subjective . It leaves out other qualities that are also need to be a good WR. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2021 6:56:41 GMT -5
Good hands and route running makes a quality WR..
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 24, 2021 7:38:28 GMT -5
Hands and precise route running short area quiks, last winning contested balls might be the biggest. most of the best WRs that we won with here were 4.4 and up Nicks was a 4.6 Manningham was a 4.5 Boss nor Ballard were burners for the position. it is feel and route running smarts that gets guys open. Shep is not a burner but more time then not he is open more then some of our faster WRs. In todays league there are a lot of guys who run fast or are tall but if that is all they have they are not gonna be better then a polished guy who runs a 4.5 or 4.6 and wins the battle for the ball. Thats what made OBJ special he had speed and was polished. the only place he was maybe average or below was contested catches at times.
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Post by TheAnalyst on May 24, 2021 7:48:54 GMT -5
Route Running
Without that, height, hands and speed mean nothing.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 24, 2021 7:51:04 GMT -5
Ive never heard of a crappy receiver with good hands. Same cannot be said about tall or fast receivers Of course you may argue that a threshold must be met. Maybe running a 4.5 and atleast 5'10? Domenik Hixon I cant say was a crappy receiver. He was missing something. He had a career 61% completion percentage and only a career 26% offensive snap count Manningham had a 58% completion percentage and 47% snap count. Hicks had a 55% completion percentage and 53% snap count. Cruz had a 59.5 %completion percentage and 67.5 percent snap count. Although Hixon had good hands he was not played as much as his other 3 counterparts. He had the hands but lacked something else that kept him off the field. His hands were used more as a returner because he most likely could not run a proper route. Why this whole study is opinionated an subjective . It leaves out other qualities that are also need to be a good WR. The three things the OP listed hands is #1 speed is nice but if the guy is a crappy route runner and has OK hands forget it, Give me Nicks not super tall 4.6 40 will do what ever it takes to come down with the ball and became a really good route runner and had great hands. That is what was driving the hype for Chase this year he has the speed to go with contested ball champ good hands not sure about his route running but he is they of WR I like runs after catch like a RB. Thats why I liked the Toney pick for us I called for it if they traded down before and during the draft for them to grab this kid and I'm happy about it. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 24, 2021 8:00:38 GMT -5
Yup. Height is definitely an overrated quality even though its nice to have for 50/50 balls. Steve Smith had the combination of hands, route running and deceptive speed while here in NY. Nicks had all that plus power. Odell is actually the prototype for a modern type WR that i love... The catch radius he created was insane and what he was able to do with the ball post catch was next level as well He had everything but hight but he didn't need it OBJ had everything the only place I can remember him lacking bit a was on contested catches Bradberry actually won a game against us for the Panthers getting a contested TD out of his hands I had seen it a few other times, but with his gifts to get chunks and TDs with RAC early in his career here he was a nightmare, Until teams figured out he was the only thing they had to worry about. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on May 24, 2021 8:05:08 GMT -5
gmenhq.com/2021/05/23/ny-giants-shortest-fastest-receivers-nfc-east/2/I feel the need for speed. It seems we have the fastest WR group in the NFC East. With an average 40 time of 4.44 . With John Ross being the fastest with 4.42 The WFT have the second with an average speed of 4.43 but that does not include Cam Sims time of 4.59 (unofficial). He refused to run it. Dallas is in 3rd with an average time of 4.48. Philly is the slowest with Smith's unofficial time of 4.29 Coach I need more sticking compound on my hands. The WFT has the highest team catch percentage with 66% Allen Humphries leads Washington with 71% Dallas comes in 2nd with a team catch percentage of 60% Lamb being the best on the roster with 67% The giants are 3rd in the catch department with a team average of 55% Ross with 42% Golliday with 58% Shep having the highest with 67% "Shepard is a bit of an outlier. He is the shortest receiver in the division, but only two receivers across the NFC East have highest career catch percentages. His abilities cannot be overstated for the Giants"The Eagles have a team catch percentage of 54% How is the view from up there?Dallas has the tallest receiver group with a team height average WR of 73.8 inches. Just under 6'2" Washington comes in 2nd in getting hit by rain first with a WR height average of 72.6inches Just over 6' The Giants and Philly are tied for last with an average WR height of 72.2 inches a hair over 6' Golliday is the 2nd tallest in the devision 76 inches Shep is the shortest at 70 inches. All 4 teams are built differently as it pertains to their wideout group. Speed, hands , height all have their advantages . My thoughts: Speed gets off the line separation. Without hands or height .Some balls will not be caught Height gives a WR an advantage . Without speed or sure hands he may not get the opportunity to jump for the ball and bring it down. Good hands without speed or height may not move the chains. Me I think a team needs a combination of receivers with these 3 qualities. One of our best WR cores ever Nicks Cruz and Manningham were neither tall or burners cruz was the the fastest with a 4.45 all and their own unique skill set and good to great hands. |
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Post by Rangers13 on May 24, 2021 8:12:38 GMT -5
Plaxico had all 3 but was missing brains. Need those too. lol - yeah, when you have speed, agility, height, hands yet aren’t smart enough not to shoot yourself in the leg, it’s a problem. |
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Post by giantlegacy on May 24, 2021 8:22:53 GMT -5
Ive never heard of a crappy receiver with good hands. Same cannot be said about tall or fast receivers Of course you may argue that a threshold must be met. Maybe running a 4.5 and atleast 5'10? 4.5 is threshold Also (I forgot the number) short shuttle and 3 cone might be nore important Hight is a bonus |
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Post by ratbastich on May 24, 2021 8:37:00 GMT -5
The thing about speed is that it is very negligible. A 4.4, 40 is not that noticeable of a difference from a 4.6 unless you have a stopwatch. How fast is the player from a complete stop? How quick can a player accelerate out of a cut or after receiving the ball. Also, are players really going that fast wearing all that equipment.
Short burst and agility testing is a better indication and of course hands. Many of your more successful receivers are usually in the 5'11" to 6'2" range(in the 80's and 90's a lot were in the 5'9"+ range). Running crisp routes gives the "slower" receivers a chance to gain separation.
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Post by giantlegacy on May 24, 2021 8:49:48 GMT -5
Hands and precise route running short area quiks, last winning contested balls might be the biggest. most of the best WRs that we won with here were 4.4 and up Nicks was a 4.6 Manningham was a 4.5 Boss nor Ballard were burners for the position. it is feel and route running smarts that gets guys open. Shep is not a burner but more time then not he is open more then some of our faster WRs. In todays league there are a lot of guys who run fast or are tall but if that is all they have they are not gonna be better then a polished guy who runs a 4.5 or 4.6 and wins the battle for the ball. Thats what made OBJ special he had speed and was polished. the only place he was maybe average or below was contested catches at times. Also a different game back then.Today is all about speed,just look at how many blazers have entered the league the past 3 years or so. And it's also dangerous (not you,but others)to say we never won with a fleet of guys that had deep speed (some want to use this to justify still wanting to play an ancient way ),mainly because we had (other than Manningham which is why he was only a Z and his tree was limited and why he never put up an 80 catch 1200 yard year like he could have with his physicalability))a bunch of high IQ players that were able to find the soft spots pre and post snap which made for easier seperation when running routes full speed with our Erheart Perkins/Run and Shoot hybrid (which is why guys like Edelman and Welker flourished with new England in that system as well) With option routes making a comeback league wide with air raid concepts being added high IQ is also going to be important |
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Post by giantlegacy on May 24, 2021 8:52:17 GMT -5
The thing about speed is that it is very negligible. A 4.4, 40 is not that noticeable of a difference from a 4.6 unless you have a stopwatch. How fast is the player from a complete stop? How quick can a player accelerate out of a cut or after receiving the ball. Also, are players really going that fast wearing all that equipment. Short burst and agility testing is a better indication and of course hands. Many of your more successful receivers are usually in the 5'11" to 6'2" range(in the 80's and 90's a lot were in the 5'9"+ range). Running crisp routes gives the "slower" receivers a chance to gain separation. Bigger recievers don't have the natural agility the guys in your range do which is why most are very limited to an extent with route running and post catch yardage ..its almost unicorn attributes to find a big bodied guy that can have that ability (J Jones,Megatron,ect ) |
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Post by Dezzr on May 24, 2021 8:53:34 GMT -5
Hands and the ability to control your space.
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Post by GameTime on May 24, 2021 9:14:06 GMT -5
great hands
being in sync with the QB and the system
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Post by Kruunch on May 24, 2021 9:14:58 GMT -5
They’re all equal importance. Some, more than others.
Speed seems to be everyone’s favorite. Whenever we draft/sign a receiver we need to know his 40 time. Sinorice Moss ran a 4.38. And he couldn’t catch a cold in Antarctica. Then we have height, after Plaxico we all wanted receivers who were tall. See Ramses Barden. He had the height of a small forward, and played even smaller on the football field. And last, hands. Which, is what separates the men from the boys. This is a standard requirement in the NFL. You can have the speed of a cheetah, and the height of the Sears tower. If you can’t catch at a high rate, you’ll be the fastest, tallest life insurance agent.
Give me Jerry Rice clone and I’ll be good. A fast receiver, who runs great routes, and is a tireless worker.
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