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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 30, 2021 10:33:27 GMT -5
Anyone defending this sh-t show is not a real fan. Oline shit show, Daniel Jones Shit show, or WR shit show? I'll assume you mean OL shit show since that's the topic of the thread but there are a lot of shit shows going around so please be more specific... it's a septic tank worth of shit.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 30, 2021 10:41:19 GMT -5
You can also evaluate Jones’ fundamentals without having certain personnel on the field. How Jones reads a defense. How Jones goes through a progression. How Jones locks on to a receiver/makes predictable throws. How he calls out protection audibles. These are all on display regardless of who is around him. LT - No QB could develop behind this abomination that we call an OL. In fact, the 3 best QB's in the league wouldn't be contenders behind this Oline. You think Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady or Jackson's teams would be super bowl contenders when their starting LT gives up 2 sacks and a hold in 1/2 of play? The Giants have a fundamental problem. Let's say Jones shits the bed this year and they want to replace him with a good potential fit. I would be ok with that decision. Do they do it knowing that their line is in disarray, need to give up multiple picks, and they new QB might not develop because he is running for his life on more than 50% of his plays. There is no hope in developing a QB when your Oline is ranked 32 of 32 or 31 of 32. Edit - the Giants have cemented their position as the Cleveland Browns of the last half decade.... I think there is a good chance if takes another beating he might need a new start. This is not conducive to growing young QB
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Post by McCherry on Aug 30, 2021 10:42:54 GMT -5
Jones played well yesterday, so much more good than bad. That's without 4 of his main weapons, under pressure and Slayton dropping perfect passes. Of course, fans see the one mistake and seem to miss the rest of the game. And that team we played wasn't terrible either.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 30, 2021 10:46:07 GMT -5
Being a Giants fan it is like a bad version of ground dog day since mid 2012. No matter who is running it it stays the same, they hired a GM who was good at drafting trenches same result bad OL, the coach was good a developing QBs and had a creative offensive mind not here kind like being Snake bitten.
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Post by jb456 on Aug 30, 2021 10:46:53 GMT -5
LT - No QB could develop behind this abomination that we call an OL. In fact, the 3 best QB's in the league wouldn't be contenders behind this Oline. You think Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady or Jackson's teams would be super bowl contenders when their starting LT gives up 2 sacks and a hold in 1/2 of play? The Giants have a fundamental problem. Let's say Jones shits the bed this year and they want to replace him with a good potential fit. I would be ok with that decision. Do they do it knowing that their line is in disarray, need to give up multiple picks, and they new QB might not develop because he is running for his life on more than 50% of his plays. There is no hope in developing a QB when your Oline is ranked 32 of 32 or 31 of 32. Edit - the Giants have cemented their position as the Cleveland Browns of the last half decade.... Everything you said makes perfect sense. That’s the indictment on Gettleman that half the fans constantly point out and half the fans defend. But if Jones, the 6th overall pick, can’t make plays because of this OL then he’s not worthy of being the 6th overall pick. Plenty of high QB picks start on bad teams with bad OLs and still look good with the fundamentals listed above. If Jones keeps turning the ball over in idiotic fashion in the red zone, he won't have many supporters by the end of the year. Unfortunately, he may not be replaced because of the underlying problems that I mentioned. You don't just throw assets to get a new QB if you don't think you can develop him with the current roster or coaching staff. I don't even think Judge's position with the team is solidified if the Giants go 6/11 7/10 this year. The New GM might come in on the condition that he can be involved with selecting the HC. Hell, I wouldn't want to bet my career on a person that I didn't even select and might not think he is the best bet for the team. Don't get me wrong, I like what I've seen of Judge but winning is all that matters at this point. Moral victories were a 2020 thing. Now, it's time to shit or get off the pot.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 30, 2021 10:54:35 GMT -5
yeah but he makes mistakes that he owns above an beyond the other players around him. I get the poor play around him but he still creates poor play all by himself. Every QB makes mistakes, and I am not defending DJs. But you remember the definition of insanity? Tell me one thing that has improved around DJ so far? Name one thing on the offense we was any better than last year? The OL looks worse than the end of the season last year. He basically had the same WRs and TEs as last year. Again, I'm not making excuses for him. But he's not going to progress faster with junk around him. Jones included
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Post by GameTime on Aug 30, 2021 10:55:50 GMT -5
Anyone defending this sh-t show is not a real fan. well thats just a crazy statement. There can be different perspectives of why they look they way the did last night. I am as real as it gets and I still have hope they get it together.
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Post by jb456 on Aug 30, 2021 10:57:23 GMT -5
Jones played well yesterday, so much more good than bad. That's without 4 of his main weapons, under pressure and Slayton dropping perfect passes. Of course, fans see the one mistake and seem to miss the rest of the game. And that team we played wasn't terrible either. I think he did average (He would have been good without that turnover). Turning the ball in the redzone, 2 or 1 yard line is inexcusable and for some reason I believe that Jones does this more than most QB's in the league. I don't have the stats to back that statement up though. IMO, a stupid play like that offsets at least 1 TD drive. It is what it is. I'm not doom and gloom yet because Jones has played exactly 1/2 of football this year. The problem is that 1/2 is all he will get before the season starts and he hasn't been able to practice with Golliday, Barkley, Randolph or Toney. What can you realistically expect from the Giants offense until game 3 or 4? They aren't probably scoring more than 24 points. The Giants defense better come out and be dominant early in the season...
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Post by GameTime on Aug 30, 2021 10:58:52 GMT -5
Missing Booker and throwing the stupid pick had zero to do with weapons. if Jerry Rice was in the end zone on that play it still would have been picked. Missing your wide open RB right in front of your face is huge mistake. I still like Jones and have a modicum of faith he will still "get it" at some point. But you cannot blame his screw ups on "no weapons". Currently he is part of the problem on the offense. I've been working crazy hours and didn't see the game in its entirety. What quarter did that miss occur and what happened? Also, I've said multiple times in this thread alone that I'm like 35% to 40% convinced that Jones can be a franchise QB so you aren't conversing with a homer at all. I've also mentioned that that Interception was indefensible and he has to learn to throw it away and avoid turnovers in the endzone. I have a sneaking suspicion that Jones is one of the highest in the league when it comes to turnovers in the endzone but don't have the analytics to back that feeling up. First quarter I think. Booker lined up slot left. He broke off the line about 5 yard and cut across from Jones' left to right. From the QB view camera he had a clear path to throw and he wasnt even looking at all. He was looking for something over to the right side. In the mean time AT was getting beat as was Larsen. Was it terrible? No but these are things that this kid has to get done.
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Post by Bigjeep on Aug 30, 2021 11:02:33 GMT -5
Until, there is NO Threads about Jones mistakes and the OL poor play. There remains a problem..
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Post by GameTime on Aug 30, 2021 11:03:58 GMT -5
I agree. But everything works together. He basically had the same offensive weapons he had last year, and yet another patchwork ol. Josh Allen had a great 3rd year partly because they improved everything around him. DJ still hasn't had any of the new fa, draft picks and saquon to play with. Am I concerned? Yes. But you can't surround him with the same mediocracy and expect him to suddenly become superman. You can also evaluate Jones’ fundamentals without having certain personnel on the field. How Jones reads a defense. How Jones goes through a progression. How Jones locks on to a receiver/makes predictable throws. How he calls out protection audibles. These are all on display regardless of who is around him. those are his biggest flaws. Add that to him wanting to make the big TD plays, which goes back to last season, only to throw a pick.
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Post by jb456 on Aug 30, 2021 11:06:00 GMT -5
I've been working crazy hours and didn't see the game in its entirety. What quarter did that miss occur and what happened? Also, I've said multiple times in this thread alone that I'm like 35% to 40% convinced that Jones can be a franchise QB so you aren't conversing with a homer at all. I've also mentioned that that Interception was indefensible and he has to learn to throw it away and avoid turnovers in the endzone. I have a sneaking suspicion that Jones is one of the highest in the league when it comes to turnovers in the endzone but don't have the analytics to back that feeling up. First quarter I think. Booker lined up slot left. He broke off the line about 5 yard and cut across from Jones' left to right. From the QB view camera he had a clear path to throw and he wasnt even looking at all. He was looking for something over to the right side. In the mean time AT was getting beat as was Larsen. Was it terrible? No but these are things that this kid has to get done. I see, it wasn't an incomplete pass, it was failure to go through his progressions? That's not horrible but yeah, he needs to improve on that. Everyone is going to be looking at this kid through a microscope, and justifiably so.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 30, 2021 11:08:00 GMT -5
First quarter I think. Booker lined up slot left. He broke off the line about 5 yard and cut across from Jones' left to right. From the QB view camera he had a clear path to throw and he wasnt even looking at all. He was looking for something over to the right side. In the mean time AT was getting beat as was Larsen. Was it terrible? No but these are things that this kid has to get done. I see, it wasn't an incomplete pass, it was failure to go through his progressions? That's not horrible but yeah, he needs to improve on that. Everyone is going to be looking at this kid through a microscope, and justifiably so. the pocket is caving so why isnt he looking for his outlet? Because he is oblivious what is going on in the pocket way too often. Not a good thing for a QB to do. He has guts and hangs in there but to a fault. Is it guts or is clueless? He wants to trust the protection so badly but he cant
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Post by vinnie on Aug 30, 2021 11:09:52 GMT -5
This. The OL excuse is no longer warranted. The Gettleman defenders supported his decision that “the current OL is fine.” “If the staff believes it’s fine then it’s fine.” They’ve defended this OL as a unit and it’s individual parts. Jones got all these weapons around him. No more excuses. No no no…it’s the coaching! All of these guys have potential but no coach can tap into it. Once we get a real OL coach all of you will see how good they really are. Gettleman knows what he’s doing and Judge hand picked these players, they would have never drafted them as high as they did if they sucked as bad as they appear to.
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Post by vinnie on Aug 30, 2021 11:12:29 GMT -5
Oline shit show, Daniel Jones Shit show, or WR shit show? I'll assume you mean OL shit show since that's the topic of the thread but there are a lot of shit shows going around so please be more specific... it's a septic tank worth of shit. Stop being so positive, it’s starting to wear off on me.
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Post by vinnie on Aug 30, 2021 11:15:08 GMT -5
Anyone defending this sh-t show is not a real fan. well thats just a crazy statement. There can be different perspectives of why they look they way the did last night. I am as real as it gets and I still have hope they get it together. You off your meds again?
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 30, 2021 11:15:13 GMT -5
it's a septic tank worth of shit. Stop being so positive, it’s starting to wear off on me. LOL told you I'm running short on patience.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 30, 2021 11:15:55 GMT -5
well thats just a crazy statement. There can be different perspectives of why they look they way the did last night. I am as real as it gets and I still have hope they get it together. You off your meds again? Nope...actually taking extra!!!
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 30, 2021 11:18:28 GMT -5
You off your meds again? Nope...actually taking extra!!! What ya got lol.
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Post by jb456 on Aug 30, 2021 11:18:40 GMT -5
I see, it wasn't an incomplete pass, it was failure to go through his progressions? That's not horrible but yeah, he needs to improve on that. Everyone is going to be looking at this kid through a microscope, and justifiably so. the pocket is caving so why isnt he looking for his outlet? Because he is oblivious what is going on in the pocket way too often. Not a good thing for a QB to do. He has guts and hangs in there but to a fault. Is it guts or is clueless? He wants to trust the protection so badly but he cant I still haven't seen the play but your latest description makes it much worse in my mind. Jones pocket presence has been terrible and this reinforces it. I see and now that play is elevated to almost as bad as the interception since it means that he hasn't improved in one of his key flaws.. Oh man, there is a dark cloud hovering over the beginning of the season....
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 30, 2021 11:25:01 GMT -5
it's a septic tank worth of shit. Stop being so positive, it’s starting to wear off on me. Here is my positive take for the 2 weeks till opening day. Thomas got himself straight half way through last year and ran blocked really good but also stifled some pretty good pass rushers the last 8 games JPP being one D lawrence being another and the kid the jet that just ruptured his Achilles. That said he knows he can do this knows how to do it hopefully when he gets his line mate in Lemieux back they jell and get going. Thats it.
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Post by bluebuddha on Aug 30, 2021 11:36:00 GMT -5
This. The OL excuse is no longer warranted. The Gettleman defenders supported his decision that “the current OL is fine.” “If the staff believes it’s fine then it’s fine.” They’ve defended this OL as a unit and it’s individual parts. Jones got all these weapons around him. No more excuses. No no no…it’s the coaching! All of these guys have potential but no coach can tap into it. Once we get a real OL coach all of you will see how good they really are. Gettleman knows what he’s doing and Judge hand picked these players, they would have never drafted them as high as they did if they sucked as bad as they appear to. How would you fix this team for next year? What specific moves would you make? Who would your GM be? Who would be your coaches? Your QB? Your olineman? Who would be on your roster? What contracts would you give out to these players? Who would you draft? Just curious how you would fix the mess you think we are in.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 30, 2021 11:46:19 GMT -5
Jones' ceiling would be higher but keeps bashing his head against it causing him to stupid shit on the field!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2021 11:51:24 GMT -5
hey, lorenzo carter looks good! *looking for positives
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Post by McCherry on Aug 30, 2021 11:52:19 GMT -5
the pocket is caving so why isnt he looking for his outlet? Because he is oblivious what is going on in the pocket way too often. Not a good thing for a QB to do. He has guts and hangs in there but to a fault. Is it guts or is clueless? He wants to trust the protection so badly but he cant I still haven't seen the play but your latest description makes it much worse in my mind. Jones pocket presence has been terrible and this reinforces it. I see and now that play is elevated to almost as bad as the interception since it means that he hasn't improved in one of his key flaws.. Oh man, there is a dark cloud hovering over the beginning of the season....What? did you watch the game or not?
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 30, 2021 11:55:46 GMT -5
No no no…it’s the coaching! All of these guys have potential but no coach can tap into it. Once we get a real OL coach all of you will see how good they really are. Gettleman knows what he’s doing and Judge hand picked these players, they would have never drafted them as high as they did if they sucked as bad as they appear to. How would you fix this team for next year? What specific moves would you make? Who would your GM be? Who would be your coaches? Your QB? Your olineman? Who would be on your roster? What contracts would you give out to these players? Who would you draft? Just curious how you would fix the mess you think we are in. He doesn't have a plan ,he just wants to fire and cut eveoke without any viable solutions so he can keep complaining
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Post by vinnie on Aug 30, 2021 12:41:17 GMT -5
No no no…it’s the coaching! All of these guys have potential but no coach can tap into it. Once we get a real OL coach all of you will see how good they really are. Gettleman knows what he’s doing and Judge hand picked these players, they would have never drafted them as high as they did if they sucked as bad as they appear to. How would you fix this team for next year? What specific moves would you make? Who would your GM be? Who would be your coaches? Your QB? Your olineman? Who would be on your roster? What contracts would you give out to these players? Who would you draft? Just curious how you would fix the mess you think we are in. That’s a lot of questions. Let’s start off with what I would have done and hindsight has ZERO to do with it. I would have NEVER drafted a RB with the 2nd overall pick, especially without an O line. I wouldn’t have reached or drafted a QB without an O line, receivers, a shoddy defense, etc unless he was an almost guaranteed “can’t miss”. I would have built up the team, specifically the O line, before I ever wasted a QB on a rookie contract. You know, like Gettleman said he would ~4 years ago “fix the O line once and for all” and “build from the inside out”. It’s obvious no matter how good a QB is, he can’t succeed without a decent supporting cast. I personally don’t think Jones is a franchise QB but he’s also been put in less than ideal circumstances from day 1. To loose lol answer your question, I would start fixing the team next year with an O line.
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Post by lexington11 on Aug 30, 2021 12:56:19 GMT -5
Jones unfortunately is probably gone next year. This team is just one big hot mess. Between injuries and guys not living up to the hype has just killed this franchise. Oh, add in terrible draft picks like Andrew Thomas.
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Post by jb456 on Aug 30, 2021 12:57:53 GMT -5
I still haven't seen the play but your latest description makes it much worse in my mind. Jones pocket presence has been terrible and this reinforces it. I see and now that play is elevated to almost as bad as the interception since it means that he hasn't improved in one of his key flaws.. Oh man, there is a dark cloud hovering over the beginning of the season.... What? did you watch the game or not? Yes, I watched most of it but missed the first series and parts here and there based on work and at home responsibilities. Jones finished strong at the half but the drive before he almost had a pass picked off to Pettis that hasn't even been discussed here. The interception was so ugly I had to fight myself from turning the game off right there. Do you disagree with the description of the play and that's why you are speaking up? Does it matter if I saw it or not if Jones still can't feel pressure in the pocket (one of his key issues going back to his rookie year)? I can't say there is a dark cloud hovering over the beginning of the season when I saw Jones make and idiotic turnover on the 1 yard line and when someone tells me that he still can't feel pressure in the pocket? Couple that with the injuries to the offense (Play makers) and the poor play from AT, what would a rational argument be to the contrary?I didn't say the Giants were doomed and they have no shot at succeeding this year, just that there is a dark cloud hovering over the BEGINNING of the season and there is. You think the Giants are gearing up to come out of the gate strong?
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 30, 2021 13:05:53 GMT -5
What? did you watch the game or not? Yes, I watched most of it but missed the first series and parts here and there based on work and at home responsibilities. Jones finished strong at the half but the drive before he almost had a pass picked off to Pettis that hasn't even been discussed here. The interception was so ugly I had to fight myself from turning the game off right there. Do you disagree with the description of the play and that's why you are speaking up? Does it matter if I saw it or not if Jones still can't feel pressure in the pocket (one of his key issues going back to his rookie year)? I can't say there is a dark cloud hovering over the beginning of the season when I saw Jones make and idiotic turnover on the 1 yard line and when someone tells me that he still can't feel pressure in the pocket? Couple that with the injuries to the offense (Play makers) and the poor play from AT, what would a rational argument be to the contrary?I didn't say the Giants were doomed and they have no shot at succeeding this year, just that there is a dark cloud hovering over the BEGINNING of the season and there is. You think the Giants are gearing up to come out of the gate strong? I actually think Jones sensed pressure much better yesterday. He didn't seem close to losing the ball, his single biggest issue in his career so far. He covered up and took the sack, ran or threw as needed. There were a couple plays he didn't do the right thing but that was about it. Eli did that his entire career. Jones can make all the throws. He needs to help his OL out a bit though.
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