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Post by piddy283 on Sept 17, 2021 11:05:50 GMT -5
Bashing the conservative play calling. He seems to think the Giants coaches don't trust Jones, but he's saying the same things we are. Too passive, particularly on that last drive....run, run, pass.
"Cut it loose! Let him go! Let him play!"
.....everyone is seeing it.
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Post by Jomo on Sept 17, 2021 11:07:51 GMT -5
The problem is with the D at the moment.
Bend until you break defense is going to get us about 4 wins.
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Post by nick030567 on Sept 17, 2021 11:12:09 GMT -5
Bashing the conservative play calling. He seems to think the Giants coaches don't trust Jones, but he's saying the same things we are. Too passive, particularly on that last drive....run, run, pass. "Cut it loose! Let him go! Let him play!" .....everyone is seeing it. . How is a guy who set rookie records not to be trusted?? He pretty much put this team on his back last night too
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Post by piddy283 on Sept 17, 2021 11:16:47 GMT -5
Bashing the conservative play calling. He seems to think the Giants coaches don't trust Jones, but he's saying the same things we are. Too passive, particularly on that last drive....run, run, pass. "Cut it loose! Let him go! Let him play!" .....everyone is seeing it. . How is a guy who set rookie records not to be trusted?? He pretty much put this team on his back last night too That's essentially what Collin was saying.....the FO says they trust Jones , but the play calling says different. It's too conservative for a player like Jones. He's a big QB who can run, use him as a weapon. Collin said Jones should be throwing the ball 40 times and running 8-9 RPO's a game. With our lack of a consistent run game, I don't necessarily disagree.
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Post by vinnie on Sept 17, 2021 11:20:43 GMT -5
I thought Garrett called a very good game last night and I’m not convinced it was all on him for the final drive after the INT. I would think, and as other PROFESSIONALS have said, normally the HC would have some input at a time like that. I wouldn’t be surprised if Judge told him to be conservative and they play for the FG. Garrett may have just been the fall guy in that scenario.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 17, 2021 11:24:45 GMT -5
. How is a guy who set rookie records not to be trusted?? He pretty much put this team on his back last night too That's essentially what Collin was saying.....the FO says they trust Jones , but the play calling says different. It's too conservative for a player like Jones. He's a big QB who can run, use him as a weapon. Collin said Jones should be throwing the ball 40 times and running 8-9 RPO's a game. With our lack of a consistent run game, I don't necessarily disagree. I agree with you both but I think the guys we have on the Oline are playing a factor in what plays they trust to run much more than the QB.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 17, 2021 11:33:46 GMT -5
That's essentially what Collin was saying.....the FO says they trust Jones , but the play calling says different. It's too conservative for a player like Jones. He's a big QB who can run, use him as a weapon. Collin said Jones should be throwing the ball 40 times and running 8-9 RPO's a game. With our lack of a consistent run game, I don't necessarily disagree. I agree with you both but I think the guys we have on the Oline are playing a factor in what plays they trust to run much more than the QB. By the 3rd quarter they obviously trusted the line because those patterns got deeper and deeper..Jones looked so calm back there...
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Post by piddy283 on Sept 17, 2021 11:37:41 GMT -5
I thought Garrett called a very good game last night and I’m not convinced it was all on him for the final drive after the INT. I would think, and as other PROFESSIONALS have said, normally the HC would have some input at a time like that. I wouldn’t be surprised if Judge told him to be conservative and they play for the FG. Garrett may have just been the fall guy in that scenario. Yup, I've heard many say the same thing. Nobody on this side really knows, but as a whole I agree with Cowherd and the overall passive play calling. I think Garrett had a decent game all around, but he got away from the RPO in the 2nd half it seemed, he stopped moving the pocket and rolling Jones out, and we didn't have a 20 yard throw until the 3rd quarter. I won't nitpick specific plays, but there were a couple that were complete head scratchers and untimely. Admittedly, Garrett has become my scapegoat. Until he proves me wrong on a week to week basis, I cannot stand the way he calls his games.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 17, 2021 11:40:01 GMT -5
I honestly don't mind a run or 2 there as it was a tough spot with Washington having basically 4 time outs..
However
You line up 75% of the game in shot gun...it worked... Barkley loves running our of tbe shotgun..
They come out in a tightly packed in 12 under center...no threat of RPO at all..
Jones was allowed to check out of runs all night and it worked..
Your TEs were batting 500 at best on run blocks ....
Come out shotgun..in an 11..... If you are going to run it twice on 1st and 2nd down spread the field and let Jones make tbe call at the mesh point who takes the ball... You probably end up with a 3rd and 2 or something where even a dump off to Barkley probably gets you the 1st...
An 11 gives you more space to throw it early as well as does an RPO fake That's my issus..
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 17, 2021 11:43:59 GMT -5
I agree with you both but I think the guys we have on the Oline are playing a factor in what plays they trust to run much more than the QB. By the 3rd quarter they obviously trusted the line because those patterns got deeper and deeper..Jones looked so calm back there... Exactly! One thing that impressed me is that he did not get happy feet in the first 15 minutes when he was getting hit on nearly every play. He is a tough kid.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 17, 2021 11:46:48 GMT -5
By the 3rd quarter they obviously trusted the line because those patterns got deeper and deeper..Jones looked so calm back there... Exactly! One thing that impressed me is that he did not get happy feet in the first 15 minutes when he was getting hit on nearly every play. He is a tough kid. This is exactly what I saw at Duke .. That game vs Clemson where his entire uniform was mud soaked head to toe witb all tbe hits he took..balls bouncing off of recievers hit between the numbers all nigbt.. Cool as a cucumber...that is where I was more impressed with him
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Rudy
Special Teams
Posts: 666
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Post by Rudy on Sept 17, 2021 11:54:58 GMT -5
IF Daniel Jones can take care of the football (i.e the fumbles), then he should get the opportunity to run more.
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mj312
Special Teams
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Post by mj312 on Sept 17, 2021 11:55:22 GMT -5
The giants have been losing games this way for 7 , 8, 9 years now .. we have had different players , different coaches , different schemes .. even with the conservative crap we were in position to win that game .. even with our bad offensive line we were in position to win that game .. The 1 common problem the giants have year after year is the inability to pressure the QB when it matters .. there’s not a single QB that fears the giants defense in the last 2 mins .. they have seen other guys go right down the field in film and see how it’s just too damn easy in crunch time .. every QB has their best game against the giants ..I say it year after year and I’m always told we need to invest in the offensive line blah blah blah but I will say it again .. THE GIANTS WILL NOT WIN COMPETITIVE FOOTBALL GAMES UNTIL THEY GET SOME REAL EFFIN PASS RUSHERS !!!!!!!!!
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Post by McCherry on Sept 17, 2021 11:58:09 GMT -5
Exactly! One thing that impressed me is that he did not get happy feet in the first 15 minutes when he was getting hit on nearly every play. He is a tough kid. This is exactly what I saw at Duke .. That game vs Clemson where his entire uniform was mud soaked head to toe witb all tbe hits he took..balls bouncing off of recievers hit between the numbers all nigbt.. Cool as a cucumber...that is where I was more impressed with him People say he has terrible pocket presence don't know what the term means. Pocket presence is standing in there, focused downfield, not on the pass rush. Yes, he holds the ball too long at times, that is a different issue than pocket presence.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 17, 2021 11:59:49 GMT -5
The giants have been losing games this way for 7 , 8, 9 years now .. we have had different players , different coaches , different schemes .. even with the conservative crap we were in position to win that game .. even with our bad offensive line we were in position to win that game .. The 1 common problem the giants have year after year is the inability to pressure the QB when it matters .. there’s not a single QB that fears the giants defense in the last 2 mins .. they have seen other guys go right down the field in film and see how it’s just too damn easy in crunch time .. every QB has their best game against the giants ..I say it year after year and I’m always told we need to invest in the offensive line blah blah blah but I will say it again .. THE GIANTS WILL NOT WIN COMPETITIVE FOOTBALL GAMES UNTIL THEY GET SOME REAL EFFIN PASS RUSHERS !!!!!!!!! No team in the NFL will ever be a consistent winner if the lose the line battles on both sides of the ball. The NFL has changed a lot over the last 5 decades but a large majority of games are still won or lost in the trenches. That has not changed.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 17, 2021 12:06:18 GMT -5
The giants have been losing games this way for 7 , 8, 9 years now .. we have had different players , different coaches , different schemes .. even with the conservative crap we were in position to win that game .. even with our bad offensive line we were in position to win that game .. The 1 common problem the giants have year after year is the inability to pressure the QB when it matters .. there’s not a single QB that fears the giants defense in the last 2 mins .. they have seen other guys go right down the field in film and see how it’s just too damn easy in crunch time .. every QB has their best game against the giants ..I say it year after year and I’m always told we need to invest in the offensive line blah blah blah but I will say it again .. THE GIANTS WILL NOT WIN COMPETITIVE FOOTBALL GAMES UNTIL THEY GET SOME REAL EFFIN PASS RUSHERS !!!!!!!!! No team in the NFL will ever be a consistent winner if the lose the line battles on both sides of the ball. The NFL has changed a lot over the last 5 decades but a large majority of games are still won or lost in the trenches. That has not changed. Exactly.. Though strangely enough I'm actually thinking tbe O line even as battered inside as tvey have been witb injuries might be turning tbe corner... Figure out a way to get Peart average and tbis line could be good enough and young
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Post by lt56 on Sept 17, 2021 12:38:24 GMT -5
again he throws a excellent deep ball, yes they need to let him do it more
that dink and dunk stuff Garrett call is when he starts to struggle but when allowed to air it out he looks really good
look, finding a QB is not easy so DJ is our QB unless they can find something better. He has all the physical tools, just need to be consistent
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mj312
Special Teams
Posts: 1,131
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Post by mj312 on Sept 17, 2021 13:09:02 GMT -5
The giants have been losing games this way for 7 , 8, 9 years now .. we have had different players , different coaches , different schemes .. even with the conservative crap we were in position to win that game .. even with our bad offensive line we were in position to win that game .. The 1 common problem the giants have year after year is the inability to pressure the QB when it matters .. there’s not a single QB that fears the giants defense in the last 2 mins .. they have seen other guys go right down the field in film and see how it’s just too damn easy in crunch time .. every QB has their best game against the giants ..I say it year after year and I’m always told we need to invest in the offensive line blah blah blah but I will say it again .. THE GIANTS WILL NOT WIN COMPETITIVE FOOTBALL GAMES UNTIL THEY GET SOME REAL EFFIN PASS RUSHERS !!!!!!!!! No team in the NFL will ever be a consistent winner if the lose the line battles on both sides of the ball. The NFL has changed a lot over the last 5 decades but a large majority of games are still won or lost in the trenches. That has not changed. I agree , but even if you go back to when our offensive line was truly abysmal and eli was getting killed we were still in so many of those games .. this has to be at least the 10th game over 5 years that we have lost in the same exact fashion .. in position to win the game with less than 1 minute and we can’t stop the team for driving for the game winning kick .. it’s sickening because you know it’s coming .. and I’m not talking about tom Brady level QBs .. very average QBs constantly have game winning drives against the giants
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 17, 2021 13:15:25 GMT -5
29 points and he says “cut him loose?” First, Jones always plays well against Washington. It’s the only team it’s a given he will put the numbers up. Also, he has shown to be hesitant in the pocket and concerned about his fumbling issues. He had a run last night that easily could have netted another 5-8 yards. Instead, he falls to the ground like it’s a stick up. As for Jason Garrett. He answered the critics. He was aggressive, and kept Washington on their heels. It’s not his fault Golladay only shows up every other quarter.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 17, 2021 13:16:14 GMT -5
Bashing the conservative play calling. He seems to think the Giants coaches don't trust Jones, but he's saying the same things we are. Too passive, particularly on that last drive....run, run, pass. "Cut it loose! Let him go! Let him play!" .....everyone is seeing it. What he watching the lion king or something they hundg 29 on a really good D and left another 11 on the field I thin it's a good sign they opened it up more and probably will do more in the future. When you look at the stats Giants won every major stat still not enough when you drop TDs and have them called back on sticky tack BS.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 17, 2021 13:17:31 GMT -5
Bashing the conservative play calling. He seems to think the Giants coaches don't trust Jones, but he's saying the same things we are. Too passive, particularly on that last drive....run, run, pass. "Cut it loose! Let him go! Let him play!" .....everyone is seeing it. Cowterd is a pud
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Post by McCherry on Sept 17, 2021 13:19:41 GMT -5
29 points and he says “cut him loose?” First, Jones always plays well against Washington. It’s the only team it’s a given he will out there numbers up. Also, he has shown to be hesitant in the pocket and concerned about his fumbling issues. He had a run last night that easily could have netted another 5-8 yards. Instead, he falls to the ground like it’s a stick up. As for Jason Garrett. He answered the critics. He was aggressive, and kept Washington on their heels. It’s not his fault Golladay only shows up every other quarter. I thought the play calling was good for the most part. Different from we’ve ever seen. I'm not sure if he answered the critics, since he's being heavily criticized today for being too conservative at the wrong time. That was inexcusable.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 17, 2021 13:22:08 GMT -5
29 points and he says “cut him loose?” First, Jones always plays well against Washington. It’s the only team it’s a given he will out there numbers up. Also, he has shown to be hesitant in the pocket and concerned about his fumbling issues. He had a run last night that easily could have netted another 5-8 yards. Instead, he falls to the ground like it’s a stick up. As for Jason Garrett. He answered the critics. He was aggressive, and kept Washington on their heels. It’s not his fault Golladay only shows up every other quarter. I thought the play calling was good for the most part. Different from we’ve ever seen. I'm not sure if he answered the critics, since he's being heavily criticized today for being too conservative at the wrong time. That was inexcusable. 29 points normally wins you football games. Criticizing him for the last series is lazy. The defense, allowed some no body to go down the field with one timeout left. Did Garret tell Slayton to drop the ball that would have iced the game?
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Post by piddy283 on Sept 17, 2021 13:32:40 GMT -5
Bashing the conservative play calling. He seems to think the Giants coaches don't trust Jones, but he's saying the same things we are. Too passive, particularly on that last drive....run, run, pass. "Cut it loose! Let him go! Let him play!" .....everyone is seeing it. Cowterd is a pud Been listening to him for years. He's developed a bit of an elitist attitude in recent times, but I'm a fan. Even when I disagree with him, which is often, I like the way he thinks and arrives at his point of view.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 17, 2021 13:38:10 GMT -5
Been listening to him for years. He's developed a bit of an elitist attitude in recent times, but I'm a fan. Even when I disagree with him, which is often, I like the way he thinks and arrives at his point of view. We have been so bad I never listen to much unless it is like baldy or some of the other guys who know the game inside out.
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Post by piddy283 on Sept 17, 2021 13:45:57 GMT -5
Bashing the conservative play calling. He seems to think the Giants coaches don't trust Jones, but he's saying the same things we are. Too passive, particularly on that last drive....run, run, pass. "Cut it loose! Let him go! Let him play!" .....everyone is seeing it. What he watching the lion king or something they hundg 29 on a really good D and left another 11 on the field I thin it's a good sign they opened it up more and probably will do more in the future. When you look at the stats Giants won every major stat still not enough when you drop TDs and have them called back on sticky tack BS. Washington ran more plays, had more first downs, had more yards, and outscored us. Those are major stats that we did not win. Heinicke threw it 14 more times and had nearly 100 more passing yards than Jones. If you listen to Collin's spiel, he found it odd that Washington was willing to put the ball in the hands of a QB starting his 3rd career game while the Giants were content being conservative with a QB starting his 27th-28th. Beyond our first 10-15 plays, which are scripted, we were vanilla in the first half. TJ Houshmandzadeh was a guest on the show, and echoed these exact thoughts. About half way through the 3rd quarter, Aikman made a comment about us throwing out first 20+ yard throw. Beyond the opening series and a few plays sprinkled here and there, the play calling was conservative. It was better than it has been, but it was still conservative.
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Post by piddy283 on Sept 17, 2021 13:46:25 GMT -5
Been listening to him for years. He's developed a bit of an elitist attitude in recent times, but I'm a fan. Even when I disagree with him, which is often, I like the way he thinks and arrives at his point of view. We have been so bad I never listen to much unless it is like baldy or some of the other guys who know the game inside out. I could watch the Baldy Breakdowns all day. He's the man.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 17, 2021 13:47:10 GMT -5
We have been so bad I never listen to much unless it is like baldy or some of the other guys who know the game inside out. I could watch the Baldy Breakdowns all day. He's the man. Yup and he don't sugar coat it.
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Post by Roswell on Sept 17, 2021 13:49:57 GMT -5
This is exactly what I saw at Duke .. That game vs Clemson where his entire uniform was mud soaked head to toe witb all tbe hits he took..balls bouncing off of recievers hit between the numbers all nigbt.. Cool as a cucumber...that is where I was more impressed with him People say he has terrible pocket presence don't know what the term means. Pocket presence is standing in there, focused downfield, not on the pass rush. Yes, doesn't get rid of the ball at times, that is a different issue than pocket presence. It's more than just that. It's sliding or sidestepping to buy time. It's feeling pressure to secure the ball.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 17, 2021 13:52:52 GMT -5
People say he has terrible pocket presence don't know what the term means. Pocket presence is standing in there, focused downfield, not on the pass rush. Yes, doesn't get rid of the ball at times, that is a different issue than pocket presence. It's more than just that. It's sliding or sidestepping to buy time. It's feeling pressure to secure the ball. He seemed to do that a bit last night as well...
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