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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 17, 2021 13:56:34 GMT -5
What he watching the lion king or something they hundg 29 on a really good D and left another 11 on the field I thin it's a good sign they opened it up more and probably will do more in the future. When you look at the stats Giants won every major stat still not enough when you drop TDs and have them called back on sticky tack BS. Washington ran more plays, had more first downs, had more yards, and outscored us. Those are major stats that we did not win. Heinicke threw it 14 more times and had nearly 100 more passing yards than Jones. If you listen to Collin's spiel, he found it odd that Washington was willing to put the ball in the hands of a QB starting his 3rd career game while the Giants were content being conservative with a QB starting his 27th-28th. Beyond our first 10-15 plays, which are scripted, we were vanilla in the first half. TJ Houshmandzadeh was a guest on the show, and echoed these exact thoughts. About half way through the 3rd quarter, Aikman made a comment about us throwing out first 20+ yard throw. Beyond the opening series and a few plays sprinkled here and there, the play calling was conservative. It was better than it has been, but it was still conservative. We had more Yards more yards rushing won TOP 31 and change, they had a a couple more first downs the score is because our D was loose on the Back end they are not holding up. II thought the Giants did what they had to do to slow the Pass Rush with RPO's and some of the quick game and read options and took there shots also. I think the play calling needs to be better if they don't screw up 36 or 40 maybe even 43 points are on the board, 29 should cover you pretty good, this was another game thats on the back of the defense. |
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Post by repeatchamps on Sept 17, 2021 13:57:38 GMT -5
I honestly don't mind a run or 2 there as it was a tough spot with Washington having basically 4 time outs.. However You line up 75% of the game in shot gun...it worked... Barkley loves running our of tbe shotgun.. They come out in a tightly packed in 12 under center...no threat of RPO at all..
Jones was allowed to check out of runs all night and it worked..
Your TEs were batting 500 at best on run blocks ....
Come out shotgun..in an 11.....
If you are going to run it twice on 1st and 2nd down spread the field and let Jones make tbe call at the mesh point who takes the ball...
You probably end up with a 3rd and 2 or something where even a dump off to Barkley probably gets you the 1st...
An 11 gives you more space to throw it early as well as does an RPO fake
That's my issue..You and I are synced on most topics lol: thegiantsboard.proboards.com/post/547941/thread |
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Post by Roswell on Sept 17, 2021 13:59:46 GMT -5
I thought the play calling was good for the most part. Different from we’ve ever seen. I'm not sure if he answered the critics, since he's being heavily criticized today for being too conservative at the wrong time. That was inexcusable. 29 points normally wins you football games. Criticizing him for the last series is lazy. The defense, allowed some no body to go down the field with one timeout left. Did Garret tell Slayton to drop the ball that would have iced the game? Exactly. This wasn't on the OC. This was on the DC and HC and Big Dex and Slayton and the Giant secondary and pass rush. Specifically their ineffectiveness with 2 min left in the half and the game. You can't let a QB who's never won a start own you in the 2 minute drill. |
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Post by Roswell on Sept 17, 2021 14:01:17 GMT -5
It's more than just that. It's sliding or sidestepping to buy time. It's feeling pressure to secure the ball. He seemed to do that a bit last night as well... I agree. I thought he was better than he was in any game last year. I was just pointing out that there's more to pocket presence than what MC listed. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 17, 2021 14:03:17 GMT -5
People say he has terrible pocket presence don't know what the term means. Pocket presence is standing in there, focused downfield, not on the pass rush. Yes, doesn't get rid of the ball at times, that is a different issue than pocket presence. It's more than just that. It's sliding or sidestepping to buy time. It's feeling pressure to secure the ball. What does everyone want, When there was quick pressure he secured the balll and took the sack instead bone headed trying to throw it away in the face of pressure just to have it tipped and picked. He slid after making enough yards to make it 2nd and short instead of giving it up, when they had penalties he ran and put them back in field goal range. this is 2 games 0 picks and when he and the offense have had the ball they have been moving it hasn't fumbled in the pocket and only has the one fumble. We should all be hoping he can give us this week in and week out, so they can use those picks next year on Pass rushers and and a little more OL help. |
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Post by Jomo on Sept 17, 2021 14:04:29 GMT -5
He seemed to do that a bit last night as well... I agree. I thought he was better than he was in any game last year. I was just pointing out that there's more to pocket presence than what MC listed. I agree. He made several really strong and accurate throws to the sidelines under serious pressure while sliding away from it. That is a high level skill. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 17, 2021 14:06:18 GMT -5
I honestly don't mind a run or 2 there as it was a tough spot with Washington having basically 4 time outs.. However You line up 75% of the game in shot gun...it worked... Barkley loves running our of tbe shotgun.. They come out in a tightly packed in 12 under center...no threat of RPO at all..
Jones was allowed to check out of runs all night and it worked..
Your TEs were batting 500 at best on run blocks ....
Come out shotgun..in an 11.....
If you are going to run it twice on 1st and 2nd down spread the field and let Jones make tbe call at the mesh point who takes the ball...
You probably end up with a 3rd and 2 or something where even a dump off to Barkley probably gets you the 1st...
An 11 gives you more space to throw it early as well as does an RPO fake
That's my issue..You and I are synced on most topics lol: thegiantsboard.proboards.com/post/547941/threadAnd to be honest that legit was a tough spot to be in as a playcaller with Washington having all 3 time outs and so close in where space was tight.. It would have almost been better had the turnover happened near midfield just out of FG range so we could have run some plays to bleed the clock a bit ..at least to the 2 minute warning... Devils advocate. We throw 3 in completions and kick it with 2.15 left They get little over 2 minutes , 3 time outs and tbe 2 minute warning.. But my point is not what was called but basically screaming to the world its Barkley twice,a pass then kick witb formation and player personnel...... They would have been better off kicking the FG on first down than come out 12 tight formation under center with no motion or anything... That front 4 is too talented with our line litterally put together to say this is what we are going to do,we are going to impose our will,try to stop it THIS is tbe goober style ball I am evangelical about hating so much |
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Post by Blue Hulk on Sept 17, 2021 14:07:05 GMT -5
Play calling was terrible. This crap team lined up a 3 man front in a goal line situation on an obvious run play. I was calling plays at home in front of my friends and seemed like a genius. I could tell pre snap where vulnerabilty was in that crap underneath coverage.
We go bring in a man to man corner and go zone all game....any time a man would go in motion, no one followed then they hit the quick out. ABC stuff
They need to audible more at the line. Wave off the damn run play when u see a blitz coming....but nooooo.....Linebackers drop into the box and the play goes on. smh
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Post by Roswell on Sept 17, 2021 14:08:28 GMT -5
I agree. I thought he was better than he was in any game last year. I was just pointing out that there's more to pocket presence than what MC listed. I agree. He made several really strong and accurate throws to the sidelines under serious pressure while sliding away from it. That is a high level skill. I think he's going to be good. He's just got to know when to live for the next play and has to stop being Charlie Brown at the worst possible times. Yesterday I thought he played a very, very strong game. He's a great runner too. He outruns the secondary a lot of times. |
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Post by Roswell on Sept 17, 2021 14:09:46 GMT -5
And to be honest that legit was a tough spot to be in as a playcaller with Washington having all 3 time outs and so close in where space was tight.. It would have almost been better had the turnover happened near midfield just out of FG range so we could have run some plays to bleed the clock a bit ..at least to the 2 minute warning... Devils advocate. We throw 3 in completions and kick it with 2.15 left They get little over 2 minutes , 3 time outs and tbe 2 minute warning.. But my point is not what was called but basically screaming to the world its Barkley twice,a pass then kick witb formation and player personnel...... They would have been better off kicking the FG on first down than come out 12 tight formation under center with no motion or anything... That front 4 is too talented with our line litterally put together to say this is what we are going to do,we are going to impose our will,try to stop it THIS is tbe goober style ball I am evangelical about hating so much I would've loved to see a naked bootleg on that first down. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 17, 2021 14:10:13 GMT -5
I agree. He made several really strong and accurate throws to the sidelines under serious pressure while sliding away from it. That is a high level skill. I think he's going to be good. He's just got to know when to live for the next play and has to stop being Charlie Brown at the worst possible times. Yesterday I thought he played a very, very strong game. He's a great runner too. He outruns the secondary a lot of times. Last nothing his house call it looked effortless and no sign of flailing about to fall |
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 17, 2021 14:14:38 GMT -5
And to be honest that legit was a tough spot to be in as a playcaller with Washington having all 3 time outs and so close in where space was tight.. It would have almost been better had the turnover happened near midfield just out of FG range so we could have run some plays to bleed the clock a bit ..at least to the 2 minute warning... Devils advocate. We throw 3 in completions and kick it with 2.15 left They get little over 2 minutes , 3 time outs and tbe 2 minute warning.. But my point is not what was called but basically screaming to the world its Barkley twice,a pass then kick witb formation and player personnel...... They would have been better off kicking the FG on first down than come out 12 tight formation under center with no motion or anything... That front 4 is too talented with our line litterally put together to say this is what we are going to do,we are going to impose our will,try to stop it THIS is tbe goober style ball I am evangelical about hating so much I would've loved to see a naked bootleg on that first down. That would have been disastrous because that formation and knowing Garrett's tendencies there are only 2 plays to watch A gap run Naked bootleg.... Even a 21 would have been less predictable as they already established Penny as a ball carrier...play fake to Penny dump off to Barkley in the flat in space.. Or a fake to Penny he hits one gap while Barkley hits the opposite gap Just watch what the 49ers do witb a basic 21 with a fullback and hoe many different runs and blocking ideas tvey use |
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 17, 2021 14:28:46 GMT -5
Bashing the conservative play calling. He seems to think the Giants coaches don't trust Jones, but he's saying the same things we are. Too passive, particularly on that last drive....run, run, pass. "Cut it loose! Let him go! Let him play!" .....everyone is seeing it. Cowterd is a pud I have a hard time believing that a football discussion board is debating the opinions of an onlooker. Hey, Aunt Phyllis how do you think the operation on Uncle Bob's heart is going? |
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Post by repeatchamps on Sept 17, 2021 14:30:52 GMT -5
And to be honest that legit was a tough spot to be in as a playcaller with Washington having all 3 time outs and so close in where space was tight.. It would have almost been better had the turnover happened near midfield just out of FG range so we could have run some plays to bleed the clock a bit ..at least to the 2 minute warning... Devils advocate. We throw 3 in completions and kick it with 2.15 left They get little over 2 minutes , 3 time outs and tbe 2 minute warning.. But my point is not what was called but basically screaming to the world its Barkley twice,a pass then kick witb formation and player personnel......
They would have been better off kicking the FG on first down than come out 12 tight formation under center with no motion or anything...
That front 4 is too talented with our line literally put together to say this is what we are going to do,we are going to impose our will,try to stop it THIS is the goober style ball I am evangelical about hating so much Exactly. Show the pre-snap look to be less obvious! Disguise things! |
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Post by soullessnight on Sept 17, 2021 14:49:02 GMT -5
These posts are laughable,
How the hell can you “turn lose Jones” when the guy fumbles at twice the rate of anyone else in the NFL? Yesterday might have been 1 of a handful of games he didn’t put the ball on the turf.
And I don’t care if he keeps some of the fumbles, a fumble is a fumble and they lose games period.
The kid has to stop predetermine where he’s going with the ball, stop staring down receivers, learn how to slide, and stop fumbling. I know he didn’t fumble last game, but that doesn’t mean it’s solved. Let’s see him not fumble 6-9 games in a row first.
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Post by Roswell on Sept 17, 2021 14:50:10 GMT -5
I would've loved to see a naked bootleg on that first down. That would have been disastrous because that formation and knowing Garrett's tendencies there are only 2 plays to watch A gap run Naked bootleg.... Even a 21 would have been less predictable as they already established Penny as a ball carrier...play fake to Penny dump off to Barkley in the flat in space.. Or a fake to Penny he hits one gap while Barkley hits the opposite gap Just watch what the 49ers do witb a basic 21 with a fullback and hoe many different runs and blocking ideas tvey use Could be why I'm not an OC. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 17, 2021 14:51:40 GMT -5
These posts are laughable, How the hell can you “turn lose Jones” when the guy fumbles at twice the rate of anyone else in the NFL? Yesterday might have been 1 of a handful of games he didn’t put the ball on the turf. And I don’t care if he keeps some of the fumbles, a fumble is a fumble and they lose games period. The kid has to stop predetermine where he’s going with the ball, stop staring down receivers, learn how to slide, and stop fumbling. I know he didn’t fumble last game, but that doesn’t mean it’s solved. Let’s see him not fumble 6-9 games in a row first. Lol @ this post |
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 17, 2021 14:55:30 GMT -5
That would have been disastrous because that formation and knowing Garrett's tendencies there are only 2 plays to watch A gap run Naked bootleg.... Even a 21 would have been less predictable as they already established Penny as a ball carrier...play fake to Penny dump off to Barkley in the flat in space.. Or a fake to Penny he hits one gap while Barkley hits the opposite gap Just watch what the 49ers do witb a basic 21 with a fullback and hoe many different runs and blocking ideas tvey use Could be why I'm not an OC. They run a naked bootleg and it's sniffed out 3 of 4 disastrous things can happen 1.Gets blasted for a loss 2.Gets blasted and fumbles 3.He says oh shit throws a pass witb nothing on it to a very lonely DB 4. Same as e but very lonely DB drops it And guess what The "Jones sucks" narrative gets deafening and less defensible as it happens in a time where he can win the game That formation was tbe problem 1st |
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Post by ratbastich on Sept 17, 2021 14:56:35 GMT -5
Is anyone else concerned that our quarterback has to be the leading rusher in order for us to stay close? I mean, athleticism is nice and all that but we really need for him to stay back and throw it. Him running it...and I know that it seems to be one of the only things that worked in this game...can lead to a really short shelf life.
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Post by piddy283 on Sept 17, 2021 15:04:42 GMT -5
Washington ran more plays, had more first downs, had more yards, and outscored us. Those are major stats that we did not win. Heinicke threw it 14 more times and had nearly 100 more passing yards than Jones. If you listen to Collin's spiel, he found it odd that Washington was willing to put the ball in the hands of a QB starting his 3rd career game while the Giants were content being conservative with a QB starting his 27th-28th. Beyond our first 10-15 plays, which are scripted, we were vanilla in the first half. TJ Houshmandzadeh was a guest on the show, and echoed these exact thoughts. About half way through the 3rd quarter, Aikman made a comment about us throwing out first 20+ yard throw. Beyond the opening series and a few plays sprinkled here and there, the play calling was conservative. It was better than it has been, but it was still conservative. We had more Yards more yards rushing won TOP 31 and change, they had a a couple more first downs the score is because our D was loose on the Back end they are not holding up. II thought the Giants did what they had to do to slow the Pass Rush with RPO's and some of the quick game and read options and took there shots also. I think the play calling needs to be better if they don't screw up 36 or 40 maybe even 43 points are on the board, 29 should cover you pretty good, this was another game thats on the back of the defense. Not that it matters, but ESPN has the WFT with more yards, etc.: www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401326127 Agreed, 29 points should be more than enough to win. Especially against a backup QB. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 17, 2021 15:06:28 GMT -5
Is anyone else concerned that our quarterback has to be the leading rusher in order for us to stay close? I mean, athleticism is nice and all that but we really need for him to stay back and throw it. Him running it...and I know that it seems to be one of the only things that worked in this game...can lead to a really short shelf life. It's not a good look that's for sure. . But if it leads to teams having to now account for him running it it opens up a lot of other things in the future.. For a supposedly really good front 7 having a qb run for 95 (should have been 120 without that penalty)it will get DCs on our schedule to take major notice |
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 17, 2021 15:07:27 GMT -5
We had more Yards more yards rushing won TOP 31 and change, they had a a couple more first downs the score is because our D was loose on the Back end they are not holding up. II thought the Giants did what they had to do to slow the Pass Rush with RPO's and some of the quick game and read options and took there shots also. I think the play calling needs to be better if they don't screw up 36 or 40 maybe even 43 points are on the board, 29 should cover you pretty good, this was another game thats on the back of the defense. Not that it matters, but ESPN has the WFT with more yards, etc.: www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401326127 Agreed, 29 points should be more than enough to win. Especially against a backup QB. In fairness, Heinicke is a better QB than Fitzpatrick. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Sept 17, 2021 15:18:07 GMT -5
Bashing the conservative play calling. He seems to think the Giants coaches don't trust Jones, but he's saying the same things we are. Too passive, particularly on that last drive....run, run, pass. "Cut it loose! Let him go! Let him play!" .....everyone is seeing it. Piddy he also said he went on a Giant web site and what he got was fire Getty, Judge, and Garrett. Fire everybody. He said when you don't get the QB right everybody looks bad. He did use examples. I get a kick from him even though I disagree with him often he always brings facts for his side of the argument. You just have to take him with a grain of salt. Cause there is always part of his argument that is true. He said after the game he was on a Giant web site where he got his info from. Maybe he could have been listening to the brain power from our web site. lol Guess every Giant web site sounded the same last night. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Sept 17, 2021 15:29:06 GMT -5
I thought Garrett called a very good game last night and I’m not convinced it was all on him for the final drive after the INT. I would think, and as other PROFESSIONALS have said, normally the HC would have some input at a time like that. I wouldn’t be surprised if Judge told him to be conservative and they play for the FG. Garrett may have just been the fall guy in that scenario. Yup, I've heard many say the same thing. Nobody on this side really knows, but as a whole I agree with Cowherd and the overall passive play calling. I think Garrett had a decent game all around, but he got away from the RPO in the 2nd half it seemed, he stopped moving the pocket and rolling Jones out, and we didn't have a 20 yard throw until the 3rd quarter. I won't nitpick specific plays, but there were a couple that were complete head scratchers and untimely. Admittedly, Garrett has become my scapegoat. Until he proves me wrong on a week to week basis, I cannot stand the way he calls his games. And did you notice all 3 of Jones big runs went to the left side not a rollout to the right. So I guess it was a run all the way no option. Thomas on the left and Rudolph with sealing the edge. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 17, 2021 15:35:07 GMT -5
Is anyone else concerned that our quarterback has to be the leading rusher in order for us to stay close? I mean, athleticism is nice and all that but we really need for him to stay back and throw it. Him running it...and I know that it seems to be one of the only things that worked in this game...can lead to a really short shelf life. It's not a good look that's for sure. . But if it leads to teams having to now account for him running it it opens up a lot of other things in the future.. For a supposedly really good front 7 having a qb run for 95 (should have been 120 without that penalty)it will get DCs on our schedule to take major notice I think showing that and really Washington loses that game if that TD stand because a field goal isn't enough. Should have lost anyway they have several shots out there of Lawrence moving with the snap that might be why he missed maybe it screwed up the operation. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 17, 2021 15:45:31 GMT -5
Bashing the conservative play calling. He seems to think the Giants coaches don't trust Jones, but he's saying the same things we are. Too passive, particularly on that last drive....run, run, pass. "Cut it loose! Let him go! Let him play!" .....everyone is seeing it. Piddy he also said he went on a Giant web site and what he got was fire Getty, Judge, and Garrett. Fire everybody. He said when you don't get the QB right everybody looks bad. He did use examples. I get a kick from him even though I disagree with him often he always brings facts for his side of the argument. You just have to take him with a grain of salt. Cause there is always part of his argument that is true. He said after the game he was on a Giant web site where he got his info from. Maybe he could have been listening to the brain power from our web site. lol Guess every Giant web site sounded the same last night. I'm sure he probably has elements of truth within many of the things he says but how does one bring facts to a discussion of opinions? |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Sept 17, 2021 15:59:31 GMT -5
Piddy he also said he went on a Giant web site and what he got was fire Getty, Judge, and Garrett. Fire everybody. He said when you don't get the QB right everybody looks bad. He did use examples. I get a kick from him even though I disagree with him often he always brings facts for his side of the argument. You just have to take him with a grain of salt. Cause there is always part of his argument that is true. He said after the game he was on a Giant web site where he got his info from. Maybe he could have been listening to the brain power from our web site. lol Guess every Giant web site sounded the same last night. I'm sure he probably has elements of truth within many of the things he says but how does one bring facts to a discussion of opinions? Well your right I should have said he brings talking points to his side of the argument or discussion. Just mean't he makes points sometimes that I didn't think of and I sometimes I find them interesting. |
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Post by piddy283 on Sept 17, 2021 16:43:56 GMT -5
In fairness, Heinicke is a better QB than Fitzpatrick. True. As mentioned in other threads, he's no slouch and gave TB a run for their money in the playoffs last year. |
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Post by DandyDon on Sept 17, 2021 19:06:59 GMT -5
This is exactly what I saw at Duke .. That game vs Clemson where his entire uniform was mud soaked head to toe witb all tbe hits he took..balls bouncing off of recievers hit between the numbers all nigbt.. Cool as a cucumber...that is where I was more impressed with him People say he has terrible pocket presence don't know what the term means. Pocket presence is standing in there, focused downfield, not on the pass rush. Yes, doesn't get rid of the ball at times, that is a different issue than pocket presence. Yes, but it's also about that "6th sense" that QBs develop where their experience tells them when to get out of dodge. IMO, this comes from experience and something he will get better at. The problem the past couple years has been he is under so much pressure from bad protection he really has no choice but to ignore that sense. |
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giantsalmon
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Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
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Post by giantsalmon on Sept 17, 2021 20:58:14 GMT -5
And to be honest that legit was a tough spot to be in as a playcaller with Washington having all 3 time outs and so close in where space was tight.. It would have almost been better had the turnover happened near midfield just out of FG range so we could have run some plays to bleed the clock a bit ..at least to the 2 minute warning... Devils advocate. We throw 3 in completions and kick it with 2.15 left They get little over 2 minutes , 3 time outs and tbe 2 minute warning.. But my point is not what was called but basically screaming to the world its Barkley twice,a pass then kick witb formation and player personnel...... They would have been better off kicking the FG on first down than come out 12 tight formation under center with no motion or anything... That front 4 is too talented with our line litterally put together to say this is what we are going to do,we are going to impose our will,try to stop it THIS is tbe goober style ball I am evangelical about hating so much I would've loved to see a naked bootleg on that first down. off of a fake to Saquon he would have scored and I hoped they would not get away from what they were doing so well. I was incensed it was so predictable. I too, was blaming Garrett but it may have been Judge. In his presser he dismissed the questions on conservative play calling saying making them take timeouts there was THE play. Sure, when your D is playing well. Where was LW? Not sure he made an impactful play all night. |
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