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Post by Morehead State on Oct 1, 2021 9:17:28 GMT -5
Everyone saw the comments Joe Judge made about analytics. He tried to defend the unexplainable decision to punt from the Atlanta 39 on 4th and short. 31 other HC's would have gone for it in that spot.
But let's put "analytics" aside for a moment. EVERY Atlanta fan, player and coach was happy to see the Giants bring their punt team on the field. The Giants, by that decision, reduced their chances of winning that game. It was one of the dumbest decisions Joe Judge has ever made. And that is saying something because Joe Judge throws challenge flags when there is NO chance for a reversal of the call. My God he threw a flag on a play where there is an automatic review.
I was a huge advocate of Joe Judge as our HC. I really thought he represented a a new future for our team. Now it seems clear that he's not up to the job.
Analytics isn't the question. It's the judgement of our HC when the game is on the line.
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 1, 2021 9:23:24 GMT -5
Everyone saw the comments Joe Judge made about analytics. He tried to defend the unexplainable decision to punt from the Atlanta 39 on 4th and short. 31 other HC's would have gone for it in that spot.
But let's put "analytics" aside for a moment. EVERY Atlanta fan, player and coach was happy to see the Giants bring their punt team on the field. The Giants, by that decision, reduced their chances of winning that game. It was one of the dumbest decisions Joe Judge has ever made. And that is saying something because Joe Judge throws challenge flags when there is NO chance for a reversal of the call. My God he threw a flag on a play where there is an automatic review.
I was a huge advocate of Joe Judge as our HC. I really thought he represented a a new future for our team. Now it seems clear that he's not up to the job.
Analytics isn't the question. It's the judgement of our HC when the game is on the line.
if you have read any of my posts you know that I have never been impressed with Judge, I don't usually trash any one but as I have said a few times Judge still has everything to prove and we're all waiting for some good results, alas still too early I guess.. |
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Post by Providence on Oct 1, 2021 9:31:14 GMT -5
Yup, and poor judgement will wreck good data analysis. Football coaches who aren't utilizing the copious amounts of data available to them are doing their team a disservice. But just having a staff to analyze data ain't worth a damn if you don't have a head on your shoulders to make it work for you.
And the challenge flag on the unchallengeable play should give even the most ardent Judge supporter pause.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Oct 1, 2021 9:37:20 GMT -5
It was a pretty spineless decision. Last night the Jags had almost the exact same situation. 4th and 2 (1 yard less) at the Bengals 39. Meyer went for it, converted it and I believe that drive ended up in the TD to go up 21-14.
They lost anyway, but they would never have had a chance if they didn't go for that.
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Post by nygiantfanalways on Oct 1, 2021 9:41:34 GMT -5
Everyone saw the comments Joe Judge made about analytics. He tried to defend the unexplainable decision to punt from the Atlanta 39 on 4th and short. 31 other HC's would have gone for it in that spot.
But let's put "analytics" aside for a moment. EVERY Atlanta fan, player and coach was happy to see the Giants bring their punt team on the field. The Giants, by that decision, reduced their chances of winning that game. It was one of the dumbest decisions Joe Judge has ever made. And that is saying something because Joe Judge throws challenge flags when there is NO chance for a reversal of the call. My God he threw a flag on a play where there is an automatic review.
I was a huge advocate of Joe Judge as our HC. I really thought he represented a a new future for our team. Now it seems clear that he's not up to the job.
Analytics isn't the question. It's the judgement of our HC when the game is on the line.
Damn, I knew that we punted it on our side of the 50 yard line. But I didn't realize we were at the 39. What the hell was he thinking. This season Joe Judge is coaching scared and its cost us the last two games. |
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Post by spaceweather on Oct 1, 2021 9:50:05 GMT -5
Everyone saw the comments Joe Judge made about analytics. He tried to defend the unexplainable decision to punt from the Atlanta 39 on 4th and short. 31 other HC's would have gone for it in that spot.
But let's put "analytics" aside for a moment. EVERY Atlanta fan, player and coach was happy to see the Giants bring their punt team on the field. The Giants, by that decision, reduced their chances of winning that game. It was one of the dumbest decisions Joe Judge has ever made. And that is saying something because Joe Judge throws challenge flags when there is NO chance for a reversal of the call. My God he threw a flag on a play where there is an automatic review.
I was a huge advocate of Joe Judge as our HC. I really thought he represented a a new future for our team. Now it seems clear that he's not up to the job.
Analytics isn't the question. It's the judgement of our HC when the game is on the line.
Well said and completely agree. |
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3days
Starter
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Post by 3days on Oct 1, 2021 9:54:34 GMT -5
I really want him to be the answer and still hope he grows into the job. That said, it has been a really bad 3 games and real reasons for concern. I will be interested to see if the Giants are willing to make any major changes early on. Frankly felt it was needed after losing to Atlanta.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 1, 2021 10:02:39 GMT -5
Everyone saw the comments Joe Judge made about analytics. He tried to defend the unexplainable decision to punt from the Atlanta 39 on 4th and short. 31 other HC's would have gone for it in that spot.
But let's put "analytics" aside for a moment. EVERY Atlanta fan, player and coach was happy to see the Giants bring their punt team on the field. The Giants, by that decision, reduced their chances of winning that game. It was one of the dumbest decisions Joe Judge has ever made. And that is saying something because Joe Judge throws challenge flags when there is NO chance for a reversal of the call. My God he threw a flag on a play where there is an automatic review.
I was a huge advocate of Joe Judge as our HC. I really thought he represented a a new future for our team. Now it seems clear that he's not up to the job.
Analytics isn't the question. It's the judgement of our HC when the game is on the line.
if you have read any of my posts you know that I have never been impressed with Judge, I don't usually trash any one but as I have said a few times Judge still has everything to prove and we're all waiting for some good results, alas still too early I guess.. I think right now he needs to pull a Parcells if the offense is stagnant again moving the ball between the 20s and then choking away any chance at 7 he needs make changes and shake up the staff. One part of the staff I am happy with is how the OL coaches have at least kept a make shift unit digging into the 4th string at least work able. I have to say he didn't not get any carry over and these are his and Daves guys, in he meantime we see the Bengals buying into their second year head coach and taking the leap. |
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Post by leonperry on Oct 1, 2021 10:12:29 GMT -5
McAdoo was coming off an 11 win season, best in awhile and then next yr right off the bat they lost games they had no business losing and it went quickly downhill from there although for some different reasons.
am NOT saying Judge is in any way like him, but the dynamics of what happens to a new HC especially are similar to me, until you win games you should and pull out a game here or there where you seem to have no business winning that really highlights some good coaching moves (yeah I know there was Seattle last yr), you got one foot on the banana peel and one foot on the grave in this town as a HC.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 1, 2021 10:19:42 GMT -5
if you have read any of my posts you know that I have never been impressed with Judge, I don't usually trash any one but as I have said a few times Judge still has everything to prove and we're all waiting for some good results, alas still too early I guess.. I think right now he needs to pull a Parcells if the offense is stagnant again moving the ball between the 20s and then choking away any chance at 7 he needs make changes and shake up the staff. One part of the staff I am happy with is how the OL coaches have at least kept a make shift unit digging into the 4th string at least work able. I have to say he didn't not get any carry over and these are his and Daves guys, in he meantime we see the Bengals buying into their second year head coach and taking the leap. Bengals guy is in his 3rd year |
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Post by spaceweather on Oct 1, 2021 10:26:44 GMT -5
if you have read any of my posts you know that I have never been impressed with Judge, I don't usually trash any one but as I have said a few times Judge still has everything to prove and we're all waiting for some good results, alas still too early I guess.. I think right now he needs to pull a Parcells if the offense is stagnant again moving the ball between the 20s and then choking away any chance at 7 he needs make changes and shake up the staff. One part of the staff I am happy with is how the OL coaches have at least kept a make shift unit digging into the 4th string at least work able. I have to say he didn't not get any carry over and these are his and Daves guys, in he meantime we see the Bengals buying into their second year head coach and taking the leap. Agree, we are about to be on our 4th starting LG and the talent overall lacks on the OL (Gettlemans fault) so I am impressed with Sale and FLaherty working together. |
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 1, 2021 10:28:47 GMT -5
Everyone saw the comments Joe Judge made about analytics. He tried to defend the unexplainable decision to punt from the Atlanta 39 on 4th and short. 31 other HC's would have gone for it in that spot.
But let's put "analytics" aside for a moment. EVERY Atlanta fan, player and coach was happy to see the Giants bring their punt team on the field. The Giants, by that decision, reduced their chances of winning that game. It was one of the dumbest decisions Joe Judge has ever made. And that is saying something because Joe Judge throws challenge flags when there is NO chance for a reversal of the call. My God he threw a flag on a play where there is an automatic review.
I was a huge advocate of Joe Judge as our HC. I really thought he represented a a new future for our team. Now it seems clear that he's not up to the job.
Analytics isn't the question. It's the judgement of our HC when the game is on the line.
Let me play the devil's advocate here even though I basically agree with everything you said.
We were down 7-6 at the time with over 6 minutes left in the 3rd quarter. I don't think it was a "game on the line" moment although I understand the mentality that is was a defining point in the game.
It was a coach playing not to lose even though he was losing.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 1, 2021 10:31:20 GMT -5
I'm still dumbfounded by the call to punt on the 39 yard line... Made zero sense. That was coaching like a wimp IMO. It also hurts the confidence of your young QB because obviously you dont trust him. Also, it says you don't trust the defense to stop the other team from going 61 yards if you fail to convert.
Im worried he will try to over correct this now and go for a 4th and 8 on OUR 39 next game.
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Post by idkaname on Oct 1, 2021 10:37:10 GMT -5
I'm still dumbfounded by the call to punt on the 39 yard line... Made zero sense. That was coaching like a wimp IMO. It also hurts the confidence of your young QB because obviously you dont trust him. Also, it says you don't trust the defense to stop the other team from going 61 yards if you fail to convert. Im worried he will try to over correct this now and go for a 4th and 8 on OUR 39 next game. yep, dumbest part is there was a HIGH probability we would have the same or worse field position even if we forced Atlanta to punt…if you can’t make 3 yards you don’t deserve to win anyway. I mean come on…that’s so hard to defend in that situation, you have to prevent a big play and watch underneath…not to mention we drove down there pretty easy. Just bum coaching, maybe he’s feeling the pressure of his coaching job slipping away and like many players, thinking and not playing (coaching) |
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Post by TEM on Oct 1, 2021 10:48:23 GMT -5
I am a numbers guy. I am going to use a different play. 4 and 9 from the 50 with 1:58 on the clock. By league averages . You punt the ball. All fine and dandy. Go with the league odds in the macro. The micro is telling a different story. Any statistical modal ran with JJ, JG and PG as our coaching staff would say go for it on 4th down. Because the stats have shown when this coaching staff hands the ball back to the opponent with less than 3 minutes on the clock in a close game . There is a high probibility of a loss.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 1, 2021 10:56:42 GMT -5
I think right now he needs to pull a Parcells if the offense is stagnant again moving the ball between the 20s and then choking away any chance at 7 he needs make changes and shake up the staff. One part of the staff I am happy with is how the OL coaches have at least kept a make shift unit digging into the 4th string at least work able. I have to say he didn't not get any carry over and these are his and Daves guys, in he meantime we see the Bengals buying into their second year head coach and taking the leap. Agree, we are about to be on our 4th starting LG and the talent overall lacks on the OL (Gettlemans fault) so I am impressed with Sale and FLaherty working together. Flaherty was always a good coach he got caught up in that Flowers mess JR wanted him to workout in the worst way. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 1, 2021 10:59:08 GMT -5
I think right now he needs to pull a Parcells if the offense is stagnant again moving the ball between the 20s and then choking away any chance at 7 he needs make changes and shake up the staff. One part of the staff I am happy with is how the OL coaches have at least kept a make shift unit digging into the 4th string at least work able. I have to say he didn't not get any carry over and these are his and Daves guys, in he meantime we see the Bengals buying into their second year head coach and taking the leap. Bengals guy is in his 3rd year Thought he was a rookie with Judge last year wow I don't know how Judge survives without winning or with out Gettlemen ne wGM is gonna want his own guy most likely. |
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Post by idkaname on Oct 1, 2021 11:11:05 GMT -5
yep, dumbest part is there was a HIGH probability we would have the same or worse field position even if we forced Atlanta to punt…if you can’t make 3 yards you don’t deserve to win anyway. I mean come on…that’s so hard to defend in that situation, you have to prevent a big play and watch underneath…not to mention we drove down there pretty easy. Just bum coaching, maybe he’s feeling the pressure of his coaching job slipping away and like many players, thinking and not playing (coaching) It’s just much easier to blame Goodell/refs. you’re just corny at this point, again it’s controlled-not rigged. The players still need to execute and coaches still need to scheme. But while we’re on the topic of never catching breaks Attachment Deleted |
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Post by GameTime on Oct 1, 2021 12:10:13 GMT -5
analytics should be used as a guide not a be all end all.
Was dumb and he is proving to be overwhelmed.
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Post by idkaname on Oct 1, 2021 12:17:18 GMT -5
analytics should be used as a guide not a be all end all. Agreed. It should be used as a tool, not the answer. Human emotion, common sense, sense of situation etc need to be factored in as well. Ironic this is coming from you but I agree except id replace intuition for human emotion. Emotions make people do dumb things imo |
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Post by McCherry on Oct 1, 2021 12:58:23 GMT -5
It seems like Judge was a lot more aggressive last year when much less was expected of him.
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Post by piddy283 on Oct 1, 2021 13:23:24 GMT -5
Hated the decision, but thought the quote was hilarious. There's a time and a place for everything, but folks are too often focused on analytics. There are too many in game variables that come into play for folks to solely be worried about analytics. One of those variables being momentum.
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Post by moecoastie on Oct 1, 2021 14:01:55 GMT -5
I didnt mind his answer to the question but 2 incomplete passes, 2 penalties and a 6 yard run preceeded that decision. I would have punted inside the 5 yard line as well but I'm conservative.
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Post by bluejayc on Oct 1, 2021 14:10:40 GMT -5
Was in the stadium.....the same crowd (including me) who booed the decision to punt was the same crowd (including me) that cheered when it was downed at the 5......just food for thought. The Giants also held on D and then scored a TD on their next possession. All they really needed was one more D stop.....but didn't stop them for the rest of the game. Execution is everything......as the ol Bucs coach John McKay responded when a reporter asked him about his team's execution....."I'm all for it."
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Post by repeatchamps on Oct 1, 2021 14:11:48 GMT -5
It’s just much easier to blame Goodell/refs. you’re just corny at this point, again it’s controlled-not rigged. The players still need to execute and coaches still need to scheme. But while we’re on the topic of never catching breaks View AttachmentBall is not secured with knee down if you ask me. Barely having the ball touching your upper arm with your knee down does not constitute possession. |
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Post by bluejayc on Oct 1, 2021 14:45:50 GMT -5
you’re just corny at this point, again it’s controlled-not rigged. The players still need to execute and coaches still need to scheme. But while we’re on the topic of never catching breaks View AttachmentBall is not secured with knee down if you ask me. Barely having the ball touching your upper arm with your knee down does not constitute possession. I thought it was clearly out via multiple replays.....no issues with that call at all......but Ballard back in 2011 regular season vs. the Packers.....highway robbery......called incomplete.  |
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Oct 1, 2021 15:12:08 GMT -5
There is a strong case that we could easily be 2-1 if not for our HC being a nicampoop. That can’t happen. All season long for the Mets I’ve been a broken record about Luis Rojas flushing games. Make no mistake, he’s getting fired. If this continues on without some significant turnaround JJ deserves the same fate.
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 1, 2021 15:14:48 GMT -5
There is a strong case that we could easily be 2-1 if not for our HC being a nicampoop. That can’t happen. All season long for the Mets I’ve been a broken record about Luis Rojas flushing games. Make no mistake, he’s getting fired. If this continues on without some significant turnaround JJ deserves the same fate. Seems fitting.. They play in Flushing, Queens. |
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Post by Roswell on Oct 1, 2021 15:30:30 GMT -5
Everyone saw the comments Joe Judge made about analytics. He tried to defend the unexplainable decision to punt from the Atlanta 39 on 4th and short. 31 other HC's would have gone for it in that spot.
But let's put "analytics" aside for a moment. EVERY Atlanta fan, player and coach was happy to see the Giants bring their punt team on the field. The Giants, by that decision, reduced their chances of winning that game. It was one of the dumbest decisions Joe Judge has ever made. And that is saying something because Joe Judge throws challenge flags when there is NO chance for a reversal of the call. My God he threw a flag on a play where there is an automatic review.
I was a huge advocate of Joe Judge as our HC. I really thought he represented a a new future for our team. Now it seems clear that he's not up to the job.
Analytics isn't the question. It's the judgement of our HC when the game is on the line.
Yep. He's good at talking but, so far, bad at deciding. Kind of the opposite of Belichick. |
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Post by Jomo on Oct 1, 2021 19:34:08 GMT -5
Everyone saw the comments Joe Judge made about analytics. He tried to defend the unexplainable decision to punt from the Atlanta 39 on 4th and short. 31 other HC's would have gone for it in that spot.
But let's put "analytics" aside for a moment. EVERY Atlanta fan, player and coach was happy to see the Giants bring their punt team on the field. The Giants, by that decision, reduced their chances of winning that game. It was one of the dumbest decisions Joe Judge has ever made. And that is saying something because Joe Judge throws challenge flags when there is NO chance for a reversal of the call. My God he threw a flag on a play where there is an automatic review.
I was a huge advocate of Joe Judge as our HC. I really thought he represented a a new future for our team. Now it seems clear that he's not up to the job.
Analytics isn't the question. It's the judgement of our HC when the game is on the line.
Uh, yeah! He is a made up action figure who loves all new age stuff but can't win a game if his life depended on it. He has hired more coaches and analytics/strength and conditioning assistants than anyone and delivered..................let's say this all together now "NOTHING" It is actually good that DG and our HC go together this off season. Now if we just had someone in charge who knew what to look for in a President of Football Operations....we might have a chance going forward. |
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