te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,997
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Post by te88 on Oct 21, 2021 18:01:17 GMT -5
Decided to pull up the Cardinals since they’re currently undefeated and used to be a total loser org. Let’s compare the VP of Player Personnel. I mean look at the resumes. www.giants.com/team/front-office-roster/chris-marawww.azcardinals.com/team/front-office-roster/quentin-harrisIm sure you could do this comparison with most the VPs of player personnel in the league and C Mara would have the thinnest resume out there. Limited NFL track record and no other serious executive experience. the solution starts with firing this under qualified poser
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Post by nick030567 on Oct 21, 2021 18:13:14 GMT -5
Decided to pull up the Cardinals since they’re currently undefeated and used to be a total loser org. Let’s compare the VP of Player Personnel. I mean look at the resumes. www.giants.com/team/front-office-roster/chris-marawww.azcardinals.com/team/front-office-roster/quentin-harrisIm sure you could do this comparison with most the VPs of player personnel in the league and C Mara would have the thinnest resume out there. Limited NFL track record and no other serious executive experience. the solution starts with firing this under qualified poser Do you know who had the position before Mara?
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 21, 2021 18:29:18 GMT -5
Good ole Fredo
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Post by McCherry on Oct 21, 2021 18:42:26 GMT -5
Decided to pull up the Cardinals since they’re currently undefeated and used to be a total loser org. Let’s compare the VP of Player Personnel. I mean look at the resumes. www.giants.com/team/front-office-roster/chris-marawww.azcardinals.com/team/front-office-roster/quentin-harrisIm sure you could do this comparison with most the VPs of player personnel in the league and C Mara would have the thinnest resume out there. Limited NFL track record and no other serious executive experience. the solution starts with firing this under qualified poser Do you know who had the position before Mara? Dave Gettleman. But Chris Mara has always had a senior role in the front office since 2003, ranking just below the GM as VP of "player evaluation". So this idea that he has somehow usurped control since 2011 is just silly.
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Post by Martin on Oct 21, 2021 18:50:23 GMT -5
Do you know who had the position before Mara? Dave Gettleman. But Chris Mara has always had a senior role in the front office since 2003, ranking just below the GM as VP of "player evaluation". So this idea that he has somehow usurped control since 2011 is just silly. That's not the issue. This issue is he's not qualified. Its paper thin this resume of his. Think nepotism.
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Post by Rangers13 on Oct 21, 2021 18:52:36 GMT -5
. . . but it’s the coach
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,997
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Post by te88 on Oct 21, 2021 18:58:42 GMT -5
Do you know who had the position before Mara? Dave Gettleman. But Chris Mara has always had a senior role in the front office since 2003, ranking just below the GM as VP of "player evaluation". So this idea that he has somehow usurped control since 2011 is just silly. It’s not that he’s usurped control. It’s that the entire player evaluation team reports to him. He is in the reporting line for the scouts and the pro personnel guys evaluating current league players. I’m not gonna argue about how much control he has or doesn’t have but if you don’t think the guy is one of the biggest influences on the Giants player evaluation process and decisions in the building then you’re dreaming. I’d recommend going around and reading up on the VP of player personnel for other teams around the league to get an idea of e role this position plays in an org. Our guy sucks and has no resume to justify his position.
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,997
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Post by te88 on Oct 21, 2021 19:06:46 GMT -5
Do you know who had the position before Mara? Dave Gettleman. But Chris Mara has always had a senior role in the front office since 2003, ranking just below the GM as VP of "player evaluation". So this idea that he has somehow usurped control since 2011 is just silly. You are also incorrect. Gettleman did not hold the VP of Player Personnel position. Gettleman previously spent 15 seasons with the Giants (1998-2012) – one as the assistant director of pro personnel, 13 as director, and the final season as the team's senior pro personnel analyst. The Pro personnel director is the guy dealing with current NFL players - NOT the draft. This is the role he played with the Giants (and he did a good job). Mara has a much larger role than anything Gettleman ever did here before GM. This is Mara’s reports: PLAYER PERSONNEL Chris Mara Senior Vice President, Player Personnel Mark Koncz Co-Director of Player Personnel Tim McDonnell Co-Director of Player Personnel Chris Pettit Director of College Scouting Steven Price Pro Personnel Manager Blaise Bell College Scout – BLESTO D.J. Boisture College Area Scout – West Jeremy Breit College Regional Scout Cole Brown College Scouting Assistant Hannah Burnett College Area Scout – Midlands Marcus Cooper College Area Scout – Southeast Rita Giordanetti Assistant to General Manager/Scouting Patrick Hanscomb College Area Scout – Mid-Atlantic Chad Klunder College Scouting Coordinator Kyle O’Brien College Scouting – Senior Personnel Executive Marquis Pendleton College Area Scout – Northeast Brendan Prophett College Area Scout – Midwest Jeremiah Davis Pro Personnel – Executive Scout Nick La Testa Pro Personnel Scout Corey Lockett Pro Personnel Scout Matt Shauger Pro Personnel – Senior Scout/Football Systems Analyst Ken Sternfeld Senior Pro Personnel Executive Andrea Wagner Pro Personnel Assistant
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Post by McCherry on Oct 21, 2021 19:10:35 GMT -5
Dave Gettleman. But Chris Mara has always had a senior role in the front office since 2003, ranking just below the GM as VP of "player evaluation". So this idea that he has somehow usurped control since 2011 is just silly. It’s not that he’s usurped control. It’s that the entire player evaluation team reports to him. He is in the reporting line for the scouts and the pro personnel guys evaluating current league players. I’m not gonna argue about how much control he has or doesn’t have but if you don’t think the guy is one of the biggest influences on the Giants player evaluation process and decisions in the building then you’re dreaming. I’d recommend going around and reading up on the VP of player personnel for other teams around the league to get an idea of e role this position plays in an org. It's different in every organization, but Chris Mara is 3rd in the chain of command behind Kevin Abrams. He reports directly to he and Gettleman. So no, I don't believe he is one of the most influential people in the building.
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,997
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Post by te88 on Oct 21, 2021 19:15:23 GMT -5
It’s not that he’s usurped control. It’s that the entire player evaluation team reports to him. He is in the reporting line for the scouts and the pro personnel guys evaluating current league players. I’m not gonna argue about how much control he has or doesn’t have but if you don’t think the guy is one of the biggest influences on the Giants player evaluation process and decisions in the building then you’re dreaming. I’d recommend going around and reading up on the VP of player personnel for other teams around the league to get an idea of e role this position plays in an org. Well, it's different in every organization, but Chris Mara is 3rd in the chain of command behind Kevin Abrams. He reports directly to he and Gettleman. So no, I don't believe he is one of the most influential people in the building. Lol that’s right Mike it’s Dave and Kevin working 22 hours a day and deciding and figuring it all out on their own. Everyone else working in East Rutherford is playing dominoes in the cafeteria.
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Post by McCherry on Oct 21, 2021 19:22:07 GMT -5
Well, it's different in every organization, but Chris Mara is 3rd in the chain of command behind Kevin Abrams. He reports directly to he and Gettleman. So no, I don't believe he is one of the most influential people in the building. Lol that’s right Mike it’s Dave and Kevin working 22 hours a day and deciding and figuring it all out on their own. Everyone else working in East Rutherford is playing dominoes in the cafeteria. I didn't say they did all the work, only that they are higher in rank than Chris Mara. I also didn't say Chris Mara had no voice, just that he is not making decisions over the GM and VP.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 21, 2021 19:33:45 GMT -5
Dave Gettleman. But Chris Mara has always had a senior role in the front office since 2003, ranking just below the GM as VP of "player evaluation". So this idea that he has somehow usurped control since 2011 is just silly. You are also incorrect. Gettleman did not hold the VP of Player Personnel position. Gettleman previously spent 15 seasons with the Giants (1998-2012) – one as the assistant director of pro personnel, 13 as director, and the final season as the team's senior pro personnel analyst. The Pro personnel director is the guy dealing with current NFL players - NOT the draft. This is the role he played with the Giants (and he did a good job). Mara has a much larger role than anything Gettleman ever did here before GM. This is Mara’s reports: PLAYER PERSONNEL Chris Mara Senior Vice President, Player Personnel Mark Koncz Co-Director of Player Personnel Tim McDonnell Co-Director of Player Personnel Chris Pettit Director of College Scouting Steven Price Pro Personnel Manager Blaise Bell College Scout – BLESTO D.J. Boisture College Area Scout – West Jeremy Breit College Regional Scout Cole Brown College Scouting Assistant Hannah Burnett College Area Scout – Midlands Marcus Cooper College Area Scout – Southeast Rita Giordanetti Assistant to General Manager/Scouting Patrick Hanscomb College Area Scout – Mid-Atlantic Chad Klunder College Scouting Coordinator Kyle O’Brien College Scouting – Senior Personnel Executive Marquis Pendleton College Area Scout – Northeast Brendan Prophett College Area Scout – Midwest Jeremiah Davis Pro Personnel – Executive Scout Nick La Testa Pro Personnel Scout Corey Lockett Pro Personnel Scout Matt Shauger Pro Personnel – Senior Scout/Football Systems Analyst Ken Sternfeld Senior Pro Personnel Executive Andrea Wagner Pro Personnel Assistant Accorsi, Reese and Gettlemen made a good team from the college side to the pro side they were good. Think DG did do some scouting also Diehl said he found him,
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,997
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Post by te88 on Oct 21, 2021 19:35:55 GMT -5
Lol that’s right Mike it’s Dave and Kevin working 22 hours a day and deciding and figuring it all out on their own. Everyone else working in East Rutherford is playing dominoes in the cafeteria. I didn't say they did all the work, only that they are higher in rank than Chris Mara. I also didn't say Chris Mara had no voice, just that he is not making decisions over the GM and VP. The information and recommendations provided by Chris Mara and the entire department he oversees is what the decisions are largely based on. As posted above all the personnel directors report directly to Mara.The entire scouting department reports to Mara. Mara is also a Senior VP (one of TWO in the org - the other is Gettleman). Any way you slice it he is critical to the organization’s evaluation of players and the decisions on who to draft and sign. And he has been for almost 10 years.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 21, 2021 20:03:43 GMT -5
I didn't say they did all the work, only that they are higher in rank than Chris Mara. I also didn't say Chris Mara had no voice, just that he is not making decisions over the GM and VP. The information and recommendations provided by Chris Mara and the entire department he oversees is what the decisions are largely based on. As posted above all the personnel directors report directly to Mara.The entire scouting department reports to Mara. Mara is also a Senior VP (one of TWO in the org - the other is Gettleman). Any way you slice it he is critical to the organization’s evaluation of players and the decisions on who to draft and sign. And he has been for almost 10 years. They are about to go through their second GM in 4 years both with solid careers in support of the GM they worked for and Gettlemen was good in Carolina it is time to clean the whole upper crust up and get someone from outside to get this place in line.
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,997
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Post by te88 on Oct 21, 2021 20:17:54 GMT -5
The information and recommendations provided by Chris Mara and the entire department he oversees is what the decisions are largely based on. As posted above all the personnel directors report directly to Mara.The entire scouting department reports to Mara. Mara is also a Senior VP (one of TWO in the org - the other is Gettleman). Any way you slice it he is critical to the organization’s evaluation of players and the decisions on who to draft and sign. And he has been for almost 10 years. They are about to go through their second GM in 4 years both with solid careers in support of the GM they worked for and Gettlemen was good in Carolina it is time to clean the whole upper crust up and get someone from outside to get this place in line. 100%. They could change out Gettleman and Abrams but if you keep all the same scouts and same approaches to scouting, any of the leadership connected to personnel then what is really changing. Maybe they’ll get lucky when this broken clock happens to be striking 12 but it doesn’t seem likely. This is a true organizational <—— (emphasis on organizational) rebuild that needs to happen. Simply used the VP of Player Personnel position as case in point. The solution starts with a complete audit of the organization and it’s processes. I have no doubt that an independent audit would recommend Chris Mara and others in the organization be scrapped. Some positions would be eliminated entirely. And others would be recommended to be created. There is so much work to do and I don’t think John Mara really has the motivation or the awareness to get the ball rolling. He will continue his approach of “tweaking” here and there while the key flaws remain unaddressed.
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 21, 2021 20:22:45 GMT -5
It’s good to have family in high places.. If his name was Chris Smith, he would be working for Dairy Queen.
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Post by McCherry on Oct 21, 2021 20:29:22 GMT -5
It’s good to have family in high places.. If his name was Chris Smith, he would be working for Dairy Queen. I have a few friends with VP titles who work for their dad’s.. Which basically means they watch YouTube all day.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 21, 2021 20:30:28 GMT -5
They are about to go through their second GM in 4 years both with solid careers in support of the GM they worked for and Gettlemen was good in Carolina it is time to clean the whole upper crust up and get someone from outside to get this place in line. 100%. They could change out Gettleman and Abrams but if you keep all the same scouts and same approaches to scouting, any of the leadership connected to personnel then what is really changing. Maybe they’ll get lucky when this broken clock happens to be striking 12 but it doesn’t seem likely. This is a true organizational <—— (emphasis on organizational) rebuild that needs to happen. Simply used the VP of Player Personnel position as case in point. The solution starts with a complete audit of the organization and it’s processes. I have no doubt that an independent audit would recommend Chris Mara and others in the organization be scrapped. Some positions would be eliminated entirely. And others would be recommended to be created. There is so much work to do and I don’t think John Mara really has the motivation or the awareness to get the ball rolling. He will continue his approach of “tweaking” here and there while the key flaws remain unaddressed. Exactly this cancer has been running through the organization before the 2011 Super Bowl they weren't able to keep the roster stocked with their out of date methods and risky draft strategy. It is way past 12 time for change.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 21, 2021 20:31:38 GMT -5
It’s good to have family in high places.. If his name was Chris Smith, he would be working for Dairy Queen. John needs to send him home to help his wife do the Holiday I mean every day cooking.
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Post by cdngfan on Oct 21, 2021 20:39:02 GMT -5
Reading between the lines from articles about FO staff and coaches turning down Giants jobs:
Other teams have turned to new ways of evaluating talent. Using analytics, taking unconscious bias out of decisions, probably 10 other things I can’t name.
It takes time to change corporate infrastructure like that. To find the right personnel, custom design evaluation systems, trouble shoot and recalibrate when it doesn’t work right. Retrain and retrain and change pieces as it becomes clear that some hires just don’t fit.
In 2019 when facing questions about modernized player evaluation, Gettleman famously said “we’ve hired 4 computer folks”.
I don’t blame gettleman actually. It was like this when he got here. anyone using the term “computer folks” CLEARLY wasn’t hired to modernize this place.
IMO, a version of gettleman will replace gettleman, a version of judge will replace judge.
While other sucky franchises have found a way to keep up with how to evaluate talent in today’s NFL, we seem to be hiring guys that were more appropriate in the job 20 years ago.
Don’t have hope about judge’s or gettleman’s replacements until you start reading articles about “massive internal restructuring” of the FO.
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,997
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Post by te88 on Oct 21, 2021 20:48:58 GMT -5
Reading between the lines from articles about FO staff and coaches turning down Giants jobs: Other teams have turned to new ways of evaluating talent. Using analytics, taking unconscious bias out of decisions, probably 10 other things I can’t name. It takes time to change corporate infrastructure like that. To find the right personnel, custom design evaluation systems, trouble shoot and recalibrate when it doesn’t work right. Retrain and retrain and change pieces as it becomes clear that some hires just don’t fit. In 2019 when facing questions about modernized player evaluation, Gettleman famously said “we’ve hired 4 computer folks”. I don’t blame gettleman actually. It was like this when he got here. anyone using the term “computer folks” CLEARLY wasn’t hired to modernize this place. IMO, a version of gettleman will replace gettleman, a version of judge will replace judge. While other sucky franchises have found a way to keep up with how to evaluate talent in today’s NFL, we seem to be hiring guys that were more appropriate in the job 20 years ago. Don’t have hope about judge’s or gettleman’s replacements until you start reading articles about “massive internal restructuring” of the FO. Yes. The only organization that did this level of change in recent memory that I can think of no is the Browns. The Browns were completely broken as a football operation for decades. Sashi Brown gutted Cleveland, sold off all their players, and put a rube as HC while he continued to put the new organization in place. They conceded the football field for those years and were beyond horrible. Sashi was vilified. But today the Browns are a modern NFL franchise. Many of Sashis hires and processes are still in place. The team is competitive. This was an organization that went from truly nothing…no pedigree (the real Browns are the Baltimore Ravens), no tradition, no success. I’m not saying it’s the model to follow…simply that I think the Giants are facing a similar reckoning. They have not kept with the times and have missed the boat to be able to “tweak” their way to success. Like Cleveland their operation is broken to the core. They have to do an independent audit of everything they do and gut the organization. Frankly I don’t think John Mara has it in him.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 21, 2021 20:49:13 GMT -5
Reading between the lines from articles about FO staff and coaches turning down Giants jobs: Other teams have turned to new ways of evaluating talent. Using analytics, taking unconscious bias out of decisions, probably 10 other things I can’t name. It takes time to change corporate infrastructure like that. To find the right personnel, custom design evaluation systems, trouble shoot and recalibrate when it doesn’t work right. Retrain and retrain and change pieces as it becomes clear that some hires just don’t fit. In 2019 when facing questions about modernized player evaluation, Gettleman famously said “we’ve hired 4 computer folks”. I don’t blame gettleman actually. It was like this when he got here. anyone using the term “computer folks” CLEARLY wasn’t hired to modernize this place. IMO, a version of gettleman will replace gettleman, a version of judge will replace judge. While other sucky franchises have found a way to keep up with how to evaluate talent in today’s NFL, we seem to be hiring guys that were more appropriate in the job 20 years ago. Don’t have hope about judge’s or gettleman’s replacements until you start reading articles about “massive internal restructuring” of the FO. The Giants had done this before when the game and cap passed George Young bye, This is another stage, actually Gettlemen has admitted he try's to learn and they supposedly did a lot of growing in the the analytics department after he hinted he was wrong about it, probably to little to late but there is something in place for who ever will be calling the shots. to at least something to update.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 21, 2021 21:07:40 GMT -5
Just saw more confirmation that DG and Fredo the potato got to go watching Risner celebrate a TD with Gordon just bothers me really liked Risner versatile blocker and a dog.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 21, 2021 21:11:28 GMT -5
Just saw more confirmation that DG and Fredo the potato got to go watching Risner celebrate a TD with Gordon just bothers me really liked Risner versatile blocker and a dog. Risner would have looked awesome in 2019 and McClauren with the pick we lost on Beal in the 3rd But........
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 21, 2021 21:17:08 GMT -5
Dave Gettleman. But Chris Mara has always had a senior role in the front office since 2003, ranking just below the GM as VP of "player evaluation". So this idea that he has somehow usurped control since 2011 is just silly. You are also incorrect. Gettleman did not hold the VP of Player Personnel position. Gettleman previously spent 15 seasons with the Giants (1998-2012) – one as the assistant director of pro personnel, 13 as director, and the final season as the team's senior pro personnel analyst. The Pro personnel director is the guy dealing with current NFL players - NOT the draft. This is the role he played with the Giants (and he did a good job). Mara has a much larger role than anything Gettleman ever did here before GM. This is Mara’s reports: PLAYER PERSONNEL Chris Mara Senior Vice President, Player Personnel Mark Koncz Co-Director of Player Personnel Tim McDonnell Co-Director of Player Personnel Chris Pettit Director of College Scouting Steven Price Pro Personnel Manager Blaise Bell College Scout – BLESTO D.J. Boisture College Area Scout – West Jeremy Breit College Regional Scout Cole Brown College Scouting Assistant Hannah Burnett College Area Scout – Midlands Marcus Cooper College Area Scout – Southeast Rita Giordanetti Assistant to General Manager/Scouting Patrick Hanscomb College Area Scout – Mid-Atlantic Chad Klunder College Scouting Coordinator Kyle O’Brien College Scouting – Senior Personnel Executive Marquis Pendleton College Area Scout – Northeast Brendan Prophett College Area Scout – Midwest Jeremiah Davis Pro Personnel – Executive Scout Nick La Testa Pro Personnel Scout Corey Lockett Pro Personnel Scout Matt Shauger Pro Personnel – Senior Scout/Football Systems Analyst Ken Sternfeld Senior Pro Personnel Executive Andrea Wagner Pro Personnel Assistant Our entire personal department is infested with nepotism and relics from ybs past Tim McDonald is Johm's nephew Does the name DJ Boisture look familiar He is related to the loser Tom Boisture that was Player Personne/head of Scouting when our drafts sucked from 1991 to 2001,and was most responsible for the Cedric Jones fiasco and threw Dan Reeves under the bus .. This is a major problem
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 21, 2021 21:26:36 GMT -5
You are also incorrect. Gettleman did not hold the VP of Player Personnel position. Gettleman previously spent 15 seasons with the Giants (1998-2012) – one as the assistant director of pro personnel, 13 as director, and the final season as the team's senior pro personnel analyst. The Pro personnel director is the guy dealing with current NFL players - NOT the draft. This is the role he played with the Giants (and he did a good job). Mara has a much larger role than anything Gettleman ever did here before GM. This is Mara’s reports: PLAYER PERSONNEL Chris Mara Senior Vice President, Player Personnel Mark Koncz Co-Director of Player Personnel Tim McDonnell Co-Director of Player Personnel Chris Pettit Director of College Scouting Steven Price Pro Personnel Manager Blaise Bell College Scout – BLESTO D.J. Boisture College Area Scout – West Jeremy Breit College Regional Scout Cole Brown College Scouting Assistant Hannah Burnett College Area Scout – Midlands Marcus Cooper College Area Scout – Southeast Rita Giordanetti Assistant to General Manager/Scouting Patrick Hanscomb College Area Scout – Mid-Atlantic Chad Klunder College Scouting Coordinator Kyle O’Brien College Scouting – Senior Personnel Executive Marquis Pendleton College Area Scout – Northeast Brendan Prophett College Area Scout – Midwest Jeremiah Davis Pro Personnel – Executive Scout Nick La Testa Pro Personnel Scout Corey Lockett Pro Personnel Scout Matt Shauger Pro Personnel – Senior Scout/Football Systems Analyst Ken Sternfeld Senior Pro Personnel Executive Andrea Wagner Pro Personnel Assistant Our entire personal department is infested with nepotism and relics from ybs past Tim McDonald is Johm's nephew Does the name DJ Boisture look familiar He is related to the loser Tom Boisture that was Player Personne/head of Scouting when our drafts sucked from 1991 to 2001,and was most responsible for the Cedric Jones fiasco and threw Dan Reeves under the bus .. This is a major problem yup I remember good ole Tom Boisture when they got him and the other relics out of the picture they started drafting again.
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Post by jaymas on Oct 21, 2021 22:49:44 GMT -5
Do you know who had the position before Mara? Dave Gettleman. But Chris Mara has always had a senior role in the front office since 2003, ranking just below the GM as VP of "player evaluation". So this idea that he has somehow usurped control since 2011 is just silly. We're full on conspiracy theory with the Chris Mara stuff. I have no idea if he's good at his job or bad, but the usurping control and acting like he has no experience is wild. Guy has literally been a scout since 1980.
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Post by jaymas on Oct 21, 2021 22:54:15 GMT -5
Also, Tom boisture for the history buffs was a huge part of the 80s rosters. Literally led scouting that entire decade. Him, young and Parcels were basically a council of 3 on big decisions. No clue where or why we are destroying his name or his relatives.
Getting desparate up in here.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 21, 2021 22:57:22 GMT -5
Also, Tom boisture for the history buffs was a huge part of the 80s rosters. Literally led scouting that entire decade. Him, young and Parcels were basically a council of 3 on big decisions. No clue where or why we are destroying his name or his relatives. Getting desparate up in here. And a huge part of the decline and the bad drafts from 91 till Acorsi replaced him
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Post by Nite on Oct 21, 2021 22:57:47 GMT -5
Statism, nepotism, living in the past..Sounds familiar eh? The problem with the Maras is that they can't see the forest because the trees are in the way
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