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Post by bigblueones on Jan 22, 2022 9:11:38 GMT -5
....evaluating player talent.
I think if I were to pick ONE problem the Giants have had I'd pick that. Sure you can pick coaching, assistants, meddling by Mara's, the lack of picking the right coach or GM by the Mara's but if I look back at the last ten years, our picks never seem to work out and we're constantly talking about draft picks or FA's who "haven't worked out." I hope to GOD Schoen is good at finding a staff to evaluate player talent. We need a Diggs, a Beasley, an Allen...etc.
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FBomb
Special Teams
Posts: 2,254
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Post by FBomb on Jan 22, 2022 9:43:44 GMT -5
According to the stories, Gettleman nixed a lot of players that the scouts were high on for players he and Mara liked.
Not defending any of the current scouts, but our biggest problem just "retired"
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Post by nick030567 on Jan 22, 2022 9:51:40 GMT -5
According to the stories, Gettleman nixed a lot of players that the scouts were high on for players he and Mara liked. Not defending any of the current scouts, but our biggest problem just "retired" Who would that be?? Because I think we can all agree that the players they've brought in since 2010 have mostly been disappointments.Those drafts were awful from 2011 onward. I would've gotten rid of a lot of players too. The only one I didn't feel right about was JPP. I thought he just needed most plays off, was constantly on the field because the depth sucked at DE. It seems something went awry with their front office "team" when Reese was promoted and Gettleman left for Carolina. Both of those guys helped Accorsi majorly..I think their replacements were part of the problem during that period of time. Marc Ross for instance
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giantsalmon
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Post by giantsalmon on Jan 22, 2022 9:52:32 GMT -5
....evaluating player talent. I think if I were to pick ONE problem the Giants have had I'd pick that. Sure you can pick coaching, assistants, meddling by Mara's, the lack of picking the right coach or GM by the Mara's but if I look back at the last ten years, our picks never seem to work out and we're constantly talking about draft picks or FA's who "haven't worked out." I hope to GOD Schoen is good at finding a staff to evaluate player talent. We need a Diggs, a Beasley, an Allen...etc. From everything I have been able to dig up(we live in Niagara County) through reading or contacts that are employed in the Bills organization, player evaluation is a strong suit of his.
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FBomb
Special Teams
Posts: 2,254
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Post by FBomb on Jan 22, 2022 9:53:40 GMT -5
According to the stories, Gettleman nixed a lot of players that the scouts were high on for players he and Mara liked. Not defending any of the current scouts, but our biggest problem just "retired" Who would that be?? Because I think we can all agree that the players they've brought in since 2010 have mostly been disappointments.Those drafts were awful from 2011 onward. I would've gotten rid of a lot of players too. The only one I didn't feel right about was JPP. I thought he just needed most plays off, was constantly on the field because the depth sucked at DE. It seems something went awry with their "team" when Reese was promoted and Gettleman left for Carolina. Both of those guys helped Accorsi majorly How would I know who that would be? I didn't write the articles.
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giantsalmon
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Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
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Post by giantsalmon on Jan 22, 2022 9:56:16 GMT -5
According to the stories, Gettleman nixed a lot of players that the scouts were high on for players he and Mara liked. Not defending any of the current scouts, but our biggest problem just "retired" Who would that be?? Because I think we can all agree that the players they've brought in since 2010 have mostly been disappointments.Those drafts were awful from 2011 onward. I would've gotten rid of a lot of players too. The only one I didn't feel right about was JPP. I thought he just needed most plays off, was constantly on the field because the depth sucked at DE. It seems something went awry with their "team" when Reese was promoted and Gettleman left for Carolina. Both of those guys helped Accorsi majorly Most championship caliber teams need savvy vets and young stars. Because of the mishandling of funds and the dart board style of FA, NYG has had to let worthy guys walk. I remember watching young JPP soaking up Tucks leadership, wondering if that would be him someday. Well, he certainly is that type of leader for Tampa now.
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Post by Nite on Jan 22, 2022 10:08:15 GMT -5
According to the stories, Gettleman nixed a lot of players that the scouts were high on for players he and Mara liked. Not defending any of the current scouts, but our biggest problem just "retired" That dude set us back at least 5 years. Worst GM in our history
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Post by bigblueones on Jan 22, 2022 10:10:24 GMT -5
We can all produce a long list of failed draft picks this organization has chosen. Off the top of my head Flowers, Lauletta, Deandre Baker, Sam Beal, Eli Apple, Davis Webb?????? Ryan Nassib (I'm not sure if we traded for him or picked him in the draft). I do consider Barkley and Jones failed picks at this time because of injuries and lack of production. I am getting a gut feeling Jones stays because the QB draft class isn't great, and we move Barkley because of money but I could be wrong.
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Post by Kruunch on Jan 22, 2022 10:30:40 GMT -5
According to the stories, Gettleman nixed a lot of players that the scouts were high on for players he and Mara liked. Not defending any of the current scouts, but our biggest problem just "retired" Our drafts sucked way before Gettleman. From 2009-2013 we had a grand total of 19 players out of the league in 2014. Since our last super bowl, Beckham and Shepard are the only players to receive an extension. This roster has been in hospice for sometime now. You don’t lose as much as we do on one man alone. It takes a collaborative effort of ineptness from everyone. Gettleman, just compounded the mistake with his own idiotic ways of building a roster.
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Post by bigblueones on Jan 22, 2022 10:42:47 GMT -5
According to the stories, Gettleman nixed a lot of players that the scouts were high on for players he and Mara liked. Not defending any of the current scouts, but our biggest problem just "retired" Our drafts sucked way before Gettleman. From 2009-2013 we had a grand total of 19 players out of the league in 2014. Since our last super bowl, Beckham and Shepard are the only players to receive an extension. This roster has been in hospice for sometime now. You don’t lose as much as we do on one man alone. It takes a collaborative effort of ineptness from everyone. Gettleman, just compounded the mistake with his own idiotic ways of building a roster. Who else would be to blame, Ross and Chris Mara? That's who things point to for me anyways, or at least as accomplices
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Post by nick030567 on Jan 22, 2022 10:51:10 GMT -5
Who would that be?? Because I think we can all agree that the players they've brought in since 2010 have mostly been disappointments.Those drafts were awful from 2011 onward. I would've gotten rid of a lot of players too. The only one I didn't feel right about was JPP. I thought he just needed most plays off, was constantly on the field because the depth sucked at DE. It seems something went awry with their "team" when Reese was promoted and Gettleman left for Carolina. Both of those guys helped Accorsi majorly How would I know who that would be? I didn't write the articles. Lol I was just curious if you recalled who they were referencing! I just thought the talent was atrocious. Most of the players Gettleman got rid of use to go. Some I disagreed with though for sure. Especially after that first preseason. I think Okwara was cut? Who was an okay rotational piece, and also had his best preseason. It was either him or Wynn. But again, not like they were game changers. Just a little better than who replaced them (Josh Mauro, Kareem Martin).
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Post by Kruunch on Jan 22, 2022 10:55:38 GMT -5
Our drafts sucked way before Gettleman. From 2009-2013 we had a grand total of 19 players out of the league in 2014. Since our last super bowl, Beckham and Shepard are the only players to receive an extension. This roster has been in hospice for sometime now. You don’t lose as much as we do on one man alone. It takes a collaborative effort of ineptness from everyone. Gettleman, just compounded the mistake with his own idiotic ways of building a roster. Who else would be to blame, Ross and Chris Mara? That's who things point to for me anyways, or at least as accomplices Everyone.. From the scouts, to all the men in the front office. Everyone has their grubby little hands in this disaster. Also, the players. Let’s not let them off the hook, as players they too have a responsibility. If a fart in the wind lasts longer than your career, you’re a bust.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jan 22, 2022 10:58:58 GMT -5
....evaluating player talent. I think if I were to pick ONE problem the Giants have had I'd pick that. Sure you can pick coaching, assistants, meddling by Mara's, the lack of picking the right coach or GM by the Mara's but if I look back at the last ten years, our picks never seem to work out and we're constantly talking about draft picks or FA's who "haven't worked out." I hope to GOD Schoen is good at finding a staff to evaluate player talent. We need a Diggs, a Beasley, an Allen...etc. Excellent point bigblue, I also think this has been the main underlying problem the last 10 years or so. Even last year with Tony as our #1 pick. I loved the trade back for the extra #1 pick and it has turned out to be gold as a top 10 1st rd pick. Now Tony might turn out to be a real good player but he gave us nothing last year. I would grade his worth to the team as an "F" or "inc". And the same with our top FA Goladay. Not a single TD between the both of them. A top FA and a #1 pick. Talk about a swing and a miss. Getty did leave us with a great draft this season. This may be the only bright spot Schoen has stepped into as our new GM. But I couldn't agree more about evaluating the players were drafting. Just off the top of my head was Peart, was he the best 3rd rd pick ? the best OL ? Not drafting an OL in this last draft. The coaching or the GM or both thought we were OK on the OL ? Even when we drafted Eli Apple why didn't he fit ? Is the coaching not on the same page as the scouting ? Is it a difference in philosophy between the HC and the GM in what they want ? The famous line by Vince Lombardi " What the hell is going on out there".
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Tyrell
Special Teams
Posts: 441
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Post by Tyrell on Jan 22, 2022 11:00:28 GMT -5
Id love this draft to just be a line of solid dudes from our first rounders all the way through, nothin fancy nancy just good team oriented football players that fill the gaps of our pressing needs, oline, lb, etc.
With a good draft and coaching staff im thinking more and more we could actually be ok pretty quickly. Remember the saints game where we had most of our roster and the oline sneakily played pretty well? That was almost like a football team
No reason we couldnt be that team every week which would at least be a start.
Theres my positive thought of the day...
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 22, 2022 12:20:21 GMT -5
Id love this draft to just be a line of solid dudes from our first rounders all the way through, nothin fancy nancy just good team oriented football players that fill the gaps of our pressing needs, oline, lb, etc. With a good draft and coaching staff im thinking more and more we could actually be ok pretty quickly. Remember the saints game where we had most of our roster and the oline sneakily played pretty well? That was almost like a football team No reason we couldnt be that team every week which would at least be a start. Theres my positive thought of the day... This should be a pure meat and potatoes as I like to call it draft the first 2 days (front 7 defense,O line )maybe with the exception of a TE that can block and be a solid move the chains type in the passing game (think Higbee or Brate)...combined with making our training staff 21st century so our playmaker actually are on the field 80% of the time watch this team make a huge jump all over
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Post by McCherry on Jan 22, 2022 12:26:10 GMT -5
Id love this draft to just be a line of solid dudes from our first rounders all the way through, nothin fancy nancy just good team oriented football players that fill the gaps of our pressing needs, oline, lb, etc. With a good draft and coaching staff im thinking more and more we could actually be ok pretty quickly. Remember the saints game where we had most of our roster and the oline sneakily played pretty well? That was almost like a football team No reason we couldnt be that team every week which would at least be a start. Theres my positive thought of the day... This should be a pure meat and potatoes as I like to call it draft the first 2 days (front 7 defense,O line )maybe with the exception of a TE that can block and be a solid move the chains type in the passing game (think Higbee or Brate)...combined with making our training staff 21st century so our playmaker actually are on the field 80% of the time watch this team make a huge jump all over The Bills have drafted very well in the later rounds over Schoen's time there. Also have done very well gambling on free agency, like Mitch Morse for example.
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Post by Bigjeep on Jan 22, 2022 12:30:33 GMT -5
....evaluating player talent. I think if I were to pick ONE problem the Giants have had I'd pick that. Sure you can pick coaching, assistants, meddling by Mara's, the lack of picking the right coach or GM by the Mara's but if I look back at the last ten years, our picks never seem to work out and we're constantly talking about draft picks or FA's who "haven't worked out." I hope to GOD Schoen is good at finding a staff to evaluate player talent. We need a Diggs, a Beasley, an Allen...etc. Goes without saying! That's why he was fired!
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 22, 2022 12:33:38 GMT -5
This should be a pure meat and potatoes as I like to call it draft the first 2 days (front 7 defense,O line )maybe with the exception of a TE that can block and be a solid move the chains type in the passing game (think Higbee or Brate)...combined with making our training staff 21st century so our playmaker actually are on the field 80% of the time watch this team make a huge jump all over The Bills have drafted very well in the later rounds over Schoen's time there. Also have done very well gambling on free agency, like Mitch Morse for example. Most of their WRs are mid round or later guys...of course adding a stud like Diggs as a final piece helps and having a really good qb....and take one every year Just look at the mid round guys we should have been taking ..Mooney,Quez Watkins,Peoples Jones ...(fwiw Issah McKenzie is a FA.......probably a nice budget guy to bring in to replace Shepard) Knox was a meat and potatoes type TE that except for one game has been great for them they got I think in the 3rd or 4th Oh They have the number 1 defense in the NFL that nobody talks about
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Post by Jomo on Jan 22, 2022 12:36:29 GMT -5
....evaluating player talent. I think if I were to pick ONE problem the Giants have had I'd pick that. Sure you can pick coaching, assistants, meddling by Mara's, the lack of picking the right coach or GM by the Mara's but if I look back at the last ten years, our picks never seem to work out and we're constantly talking about draft picks or FA's who "haven't worked out." I hope to GOD Schoen is good at finding a staff to evaluate player talent. We need a Diggs, a Beasley, an Allen...etc. Our whole player evaluation process needs to be dismantled, Chris Mara needs to be promoted to Executive Vice President in charge of the mail room......and suppies. Our strategy on position priorities, cap management and evaluation of individual players are as bad as one could imagine. No one is worth retaining there imo.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 22, 2022 12:54:24 GMT -5
....evaluating player talent. I think if I were to pick ONE problem the Giants have had I'd pick that. Sure you can pick coaching, assistants, meddling by Mara's, the lack of picking the right coach or GM by the Mara's but if I look back at the last ten years, our picks never seem to work out and we're constantly talking about draft picks or FA's who "haven't worked out." I hope to GOD Schoen is good at finding a staff to evaluate player talent. We need a Diggs, a Beasley, an Allen...etc. Our whole player evaluation process needs to be dismantled, Chris Mara needs to be promoted to Executive Vice President in charge of the mail room......and suppies. Our strategy on position priorities, cap management and evaluation of individual players are as bad as one could imagine. No one is worth retaining there imo. Chris Mara to overall franchise bean counter (not including the cap) Abrams,Petit....all gone
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Post by bigblueones on Jan 22, 2022 13:14:56 GMT -5
I kind of want to see Schoen return to the best player available model, I always liked that approach. Seems when Gettleman tried to fill a need, it went unfilled because the player was crap.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 22, 2022 14:10:57 GMT -5
I kind of want to see Schoen return to the best player available model, I always liked that approach. Seems when Gettleman tried to fill a need, it went unfilled because the player was crap. Unfortunately Barkley was BPA
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Post by bigblueones on Jan 22, 2022 14:13:55 GMT -5
I guess that's a true
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giantsalmon
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Post by giantsalmon on Jan 22, 2022 16:23:10 GMT -5
This should be a pure meat and potatoes as I like to call it draft the first 2 days (front 7 defense,O line )maybe with the exception of a TE that can block and be a solid move the chains type in the passing game (think Higbee or Brate)...combined with making our training staff 21st century so our playmaker actually are on the field 80% of the time watch this team make a huge jump all over The Bills have drafted very well in the later rounds over Schoen's time there. Also have done very well gambling on free agency, like Mitch Morse for example. Morse is a key piece, and a leader of that entire team. THAT is the type of difference maker you want when overpaying in FA.
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giantsalmon
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Post by giantsalmon on Jan 22, 2022 16:25:23 GMT -5
The Bills have drafted very well in the later rounds over Schoen's time there. Also have done very well gambling on free agency, like Mitch Morse for example. Most of their WRs are mid round or later guys...of course adding a stud like Diggs as a final piece helps and having a really good qb....and take one every year Just look at the mid round guys we should have been taking ..Mooney,Quez Watkins,Peoples Jones ...(fwiw Issah McKenzie is a FA.......probably a nice budget guy to bring in to replace Shepard) Knox was a meat and potatoes type TE that except for one game has been great for them they got I think in the 3rd or 4th Oh They have the number 1 defense in the NFL that nobody talks about McKenzie is the type of player they seem to continually find. He's a versatile high effort weapon.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 22, 2022 16:35:34 GMT -5
According to the stories, Gettleman nixed a lot of players that the scouts were high on for players he and Mara liked. Not defending any of the current scouts, but our biggest problem just "retired" Who would that be?? Because I think we can all agree that the players they've brought in since 2010 have mostly been disappointments.Those drafts were awful from 2011 onward. I would've gotten rid of a lot of players too. The only one I didn't feel right about was JPP. I thought he just needed most plays off, was constantly on the field because the depth sucked at DE. It seems something went awry with their front office "team" when Reese was promoted and Gettleman left for Carolina. Both of those guys helped Accorsi majorly..I think their replacements were part of the problem during that period of time. Marc Ross for instance 2009 on through the Gettlemen years it has been bad really, Joe Schoen seems to be about collaboration this franchise has been through ten years of arrogance Schoen seems to be a people person and understand he will only be as good as his people closest to him are.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 22, 2022 16:39:29 GMT -5
The Bills have drafted very well in the later rounds over Schoen's time there. Also have done very well gambling on free agency, like Mitch Morse for example. Most of their WRs are mid round or later guys...of course adding a stud like Diggs as a final piece helps and having a really good qb....and take one every year Just look at the mid round guys we should have been taking ..Mooney,Quez Watkins,Peoples Jones ...(fwiw Issah McKenzie is a FA.......probably a nice budget guy to bring in to replace Shepard) Knox was a meat and potatoes type TE that except for one game has been great for them they got I think in the 3rd or 4th Oh They have the number 1 defense in the NFL that nobody talks about Beasly was also a nice add early on gave Allen a security blanket.
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Post by nick030567 on Jan 22, 2022 16:40:10 GMT -5
Who would that be?? Because I think we can all agree that the players they've brought in since 2010 have mostly been disappointments.Those drafts were awful from 2011 onward. I would've gotten rid of a lot of players too. The only one I didn't feel right about was JPP. I thought he just needed most plays off, was constantly on the field because the depth sucked at DE. It seems something went awry with their "team" when Reese was promoted and Gettleman left for Carolina. Both of those guys helped Accorsi majorly Most championship caliber teams need savvy vets and young stars. Because of the mishandling of funds and the dart board style of FA, NYG has had to let worthy guys walk. I remember watching young JPP soaking up Tucks leadership, wondering if that would be him someday. Well, he certainly is that type of leader for Tampa now. Yeah, many of us thought the torch was being passed; Strahan-Osi/Tuck-JPP...problem is they never drafted JPP's sidekick. Instead they drafted DaMONSTER Moore lmao. He was always good for a personal foul lol. JPP was a casualty of those poor drafts and bad injury luck. In retrospect they probably would've been better off just over paying for Osi until 2016 when he retired lol. Think ATL didn't even sign him for much...
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Post by Jomo on Jan 22, 2022 16:41:36 GMT -5
I kind of want to see Schoen return to the best player available model, I always liked that approach. Seems when Gettleman tried to fill a need, it went unfilled because the player was crap. Unfortunately Barkley was BPA How do we reconcile BPA at #2 alongside 2 first round picks (received in a trade for our #2) that are now starting on the OL? I think it is too one dimensional to view the draft as either BPA or drafting to need. It's a more dynamic decision imo.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 22, 2022 16:45:28 GMT -5
Unfortunately Barkley was BPA How do we reconcile BPA at #2 alongside 2 first round picks (received in a trade for our #2) that are now starting on the OL? I think it is too one dimensional to view the draft as either BPA or drafting to need. It's a more dynamic decision imo. It's honestly fluid.. Nelson was not considered BPA on a lot of teams boards due to position value... Often a QB is not BPA but because position value that is ursurped.usurped..
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