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Post by Roosevelt on Feb 1, 2022 14:08:38 GMT -5
Forgive me if this has been discussed already.
I heard Shoen speak about how influential Daboll was in not only developing Josh Allen and the Bill's offense, but scouting him as well.
Meanwhile many folks want to tell us Allen is the reason Daboll's enjoyed the success he's had in Buffalo.
But going back to 2918 we heard that Josh had the athleticism but had accuracy issues - and that problem doesn't improve in the NFL. How many times have you heard a QB's numbers generally never improve from college to the pros? Not only that but how many other QB's who get picked early end up failing?
I'd like to hope this coach can make a difference with Jones as we saw the difference Garrett made compared to Shurmur. It can be argued Garrett made him worse, so why can't Daboll make him better?
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Post by idkaname on Feb 1, 2022 14:12:25 GMT -5
Honestly, Jones has improved. The team around him hasn't which is why it hasn't translated. I've been back and forth with supporting him but this year will let us know all we need to know. Even if it's because of the team around him again, it's just time to start over and let him move on
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Post by allnygin on Feb 1, 2022 14:48:00 GMT -5
Hopefully, Daboll does make him better. One thing judge said was that he was going to reduce the amount of mistakes daniel made, well, yeah, he did that but by doing that limited DJs potential.. That's my opinion, who know's.
What concerns me is he had a great coach known for developing QBs, played in an easy conference in college football and was still pedestrian. I guess if Cutcliff couldn't do it, Shurmur couldn't do it, Judge and Garrett couldn't do it, should we expect that Dabool can?
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Post by jaymas on Feb 1, 2022 15:01:27 GMT -5
Hopefully, Daboll does make him better. One thing judge said was that he was going to reduce the amount of mistakes daniel made, well, yeah, he did that but by doing that limited DJs potential.. That's my opinion, who know's. What concerns me is he had a great coach known for developing QBs, played in an easy conference in college football and was still pedestrian. I guess if Cutcliff couldn't do it, Shurmur couldn't do it, Judge and Garrett couldn't do it, should we expect that Dabool can? In college, DJ didn't play with a single NFL prospect. Without NFL prospects himself, Allen completed 56 percent of his passes and threw for 1800 yards. And he was far less pedestrian than Allen. And apparently, accuracy doesn't get better in the NFL, yet it did with Allen. Speaks well to Daboll and the rest of that staff's ability from David Culley to Ken Dorsey who were his position coaches. All these things prove is that coaching is paramount. Now, Allen and Jones are not the same considering the former is now one of the best QBs in the NFL. One had stable, great coaching and the right roster building philosophies...the other did not. I'd argue Shurmur did do it, Garrett and Judge did not. Here are the rookies that have averaged 2 passing TDs a game: Baker Mayfield Justin Herbert Daniel Jones Is it too late for Daniel Jones, maybe? We shall see. I also thought DJ was playing well up until he got hurt in the Dallas game this year. It's also worth noting again that the league clearly feels differently about Jones than the fans and media do. That's gotta count for something. Plus overall, I like DJ and I like his skillset for the version of the NFL that we're all watching. I'd like it to work out. He'll get his shot. |
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 1, 2022 15:08:36 GMT -5
I'm not a big college guy but I think DJ was MVP of both bowl games he played in.
I think he threw for over 400 yards and 5tds in the bowl game before he was drafted as a JR.
I think Dabol and company will get things done. All the eyes are on the wrong position in my opinion.
I think 85% of our focus should be on the oline.
My concerns in order:
1. Oline and its not even close.
2. WR which looks really bad.
3. Pass Rush which we were near the bottom of the NFL.
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Post by repeatchamps on Feb 1, 2022 15:20:24 GMT -5
Hopefully, Daboll does make him better. One thing judge said was that he was going to reduce the amount of mistakes daniel made, well, yeah, he did that but by doing that limited DJs potential.. That's my opinion, who know's. What concerns me is he had a great coach known for developing QBs, played in an easy conference in college football and was still pedestrian. I guess if Cutcliff couldn't do it, Shurmur couldn't do it, Judge and Garrett couldn't do it, should we expect that Dabool can? In college, DJ didn't play with a single NFL prospect. Without NFL prospects himself, Allen completed 56 percent of his passes and threw for 1800 yards. And he was far less pedestrian than Allen. And apparently, accuracy doesn't get better in the NFL, yet it did with Allen. Speaks well to Daboll and the rest of that staff's ability from David Culley to Ken Dorsey who were his position coaches. All these things prove is that coaching is paramount. Now, Allen and Jones are not the same considering the former is now one of the best QBs in the NFL. One had stable, great coaching and the right roster building philosophies...the other did not. I'd argue Shurmur did do it, Garrett and Judge did not. Here are the rookies that have averaged 2 passing TDs a game: Baker Mayfield Justin Herbert Daniel Jones Is it too late for Daniel Jones, maybe? We shall see. I also thought DJ was playing well up until he got hurt in the Dallas game this year. It's also worth noting again that the league clearly feels differently about Jones than the fans and media do. That's gotta count for something. Plus overall, I like DJ and I like his skillset for the version of the NFL that we're all watching. I'd like it to work out. He'll get his shot. I contend that this injury will be why his career may not pan out. If that's the case, Jason Garrett by calling that ludicrous play, single-handedly ruined any hope we had of Jones becoming a franchise QB. I said this at the time of the play call and I still stand by it now. Should Jones have not tried to bull over the would-be tacklers, maybe, but he was put in an impossible position the second that play call was sent in from Garrett. If it was me I would have fired him right after that game and not waited until when they did. A wide designed QB run at the inch yard line. Hideous play calling and a potential career ending moment to a young QB. |
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Post by thetruth on Feb 1, 2022 15:21:37 GMT -5
I'm not a big college guy but I think DJ was MVP of both bowl games he played in. I think he threw for over 400 yards and 5tds in the bowl game before he was drafted as a JR. I think Dabol and company will get things done. All the eyes are on the wrong position in my opinion. I think 85% of our focus should be on the oline. My concerns in order: 1. Oline and its not even close. 2. WR which looks really bad. 3. Pass Rush which we were near the bottom of the NFL. Imagine Burrows had an OL He'd go to the super, super bowl. I think those thinking simple fixing the OL is the be all end all solution for Daniel Jones you're in for a rude awakening. He has other, more troubling issues to worry about with his own play. Hope Daboll can fix some of those, to me, you either have those skills are you dont. |
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 1, 2022 15:39:19 GMT -5
I'm not a big college guy but I think DJ was MVP of both bowl games he played in. I think he threw for over 400 yards and 5tds in the bowl game before he was drafted as a JR. I think Dabol and company will get things done. All the eyes are on the wrong position in my opinion. I think 85% of our focus should be on the oline. My concerns in order: 1. Oline and its not even close. 2. WR which looks really bad. 3. Pass Rush which we were near the bottom of the NFL. Imagine Burrows had an OL He'd go to the super, super bowl. I think those thinking simple fixing the OL is the be all end all solution for Daniel Jones you're in for a rude awakening. He has other, more troubling issues to worry about with his own play. Hope Daboll can fix some of those, to me, you either have those skills are you dont. Even better imagine Burrow was playing with our line and receivers in our last 6 games. He would have loved that so much more than having Jamar Chase, Higgins and Boyd. Am I right? |
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Post by thetruth on Feb 1, 2022 15:40:30 GMT -5
Imagine Burrows had an OL He'd go to the super, super bowl. I think those thinking simple fixing the OL is the be all end all solution for Daniel Jones you're in for a rude awakening. He has other, more troubling issues to worry about with his own play. Hope Daboll can fix some of those, to me, you either have those skills are you dont. Even better imagine Burrow was playing with our line and receivers in our last 6 games. He would have loved that so much more than having Jamar Chase, Higgins and Boyd. Am I right? Remember how OBJ looked with bad QB play? WR's are impacted by production at the QB position, tremendously. I think Golloday is a much better WR than DJ is a QB. The limit to our offensive potential is Daniel Jones, not out OL. |
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Post by jaymas on Feb 1, 2022 15:41:23 GMT -5
I'm not a big college guy but I think DJ was MVP of both bowl games he played in. I think he threw for over 400 yards and 5tds in the bowl game before he was drafted as a JR. I think Dabol and company will get things done. All the eyes are on the wrong position in my opinion. I think 85% of our focus should be on the oline. My concerns in order: 1. Oline and its not even close. 2. WR which looks really bad. 3. Pass Rush which we were near the bottom of the NFL. Imagine Burrows had an OL He'd go to the super, super bowl. I think those thinking simple fixing the OL is the be all end all solution for Daniel Jones you're in for a rude awakening. He has other, more troubling issues to worry about with his own play. Hope Daboll can fix some of those, to me, you either have those skills are you dont. I keep seeing this. The difference between Cincy's oline and the Giants is still large, even if Cincy's is bottom 12. Combine that with a better offensive system, game schemes, and skill position players...and yeah. |
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southerner
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Bearer of Bad News
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Post by southerner on Feb 1, 2022 15:41:30 GMT -5
Forgive me if this has been discussed already.
I heard Shoen speak about how influential Daboll was in not only developing Josh Allen and the Bill's offense, but scouting him as well.
Meanwhile many folks want to tell us Allen is the reason Daboll's enjoyed the success he's had in Buffalo.
But going back to 2918 we heard that Josh had the athleticism but had accuracy issues - and that problem doesn't improve in the NFL. How many times have you heard a QB's numbers generally never improve from college to the pros? Not only that but how many other QB's who get picked early end up failing?
I'd like to hope this coach can make a difference with Jones as we saw the different Garrett made compared to Shurmur. It can be argued Garrett made him worse, so why can't Daboll make him better?
Well, for the last two years Jones had the clapper & the poser Judge for coaches which means he learned nothing. Dabol knows how to train a QB and what pieces are needed f to get the best out of Jones. judge and the Clapper didn’t have a clue how to do it. |
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Post by thetruth on Feb 1, 2022 15:42:20 GMT -5
Imagine Burrows had an OL He'd go to the super, super bowl. I think those thinking simple fixing the OL is the be all end all solution for Daniel Jones you're in for a rude awakening. He has other, more troubling issues to worry about with his own play. Hope Daboll can fix some of those, to me, you either have those skills are you dont. I keep seeing this. The difference between Cincy's oline and the Giants is still large, even if Cincy's is bottom 12. Combine that with a better offensive system, game schemes, and skill position players...and yeah. Between Cinci and the Giants there is one above-average (I would say Elite) offensive lineman. his name is Andrew Thomas. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 1, 2022 15:42:37 GMT -5
Imagine Burrows had an OL He'd go to the super, super bowl. I think those thinking simple fixing the OL is the be all end all solution for Daniel Jones you're in for a rude awakening. He has other, more troubling issues to worry about with his own play. Hope Daboll can fix some of those, to me, you either have those skills are you dont. Even better imagine Burrow was playing with our line and receivers in our last 6 games. He would have loved that so much more than having Jamar Chase, Higgins and Boyd. Am I right? Joe Burrows OL is not that good at all. Well below average. Burrow is just magic. |
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Post by thetruth on Feb 1, 2022 15:43:32 GMT -5
Even better imagine Burrow was playing with our line and receivers in our last 6 games. He would have loved that so much more than having Jamar Chase, Higgins and Boyd. Am I right? Joe Burrows OL is not that good at all. Well below average. Burrow is just magic. Diminshing the accomplishments of others QB's despite what they have at OL helps us feel better about ourselves. |
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 1, 2022 15:48:32 GMT -5
Even better imagine Burrow was playing with our line and receivers in our last 6 games. He would have loved that so much more than having Jamar Chase, Higgins and Boyd. Am I right? Joe Burrows OL is not that good at all. Well below average. Burrow is just magic. Nobody is saying Burrows OL is good. Nobody is saying Burrows is not great. Why do some people ignore that Burrows is throwing to elites skill players? |
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 1, 2022 15:51:41 GMT -5
Joe Burrows OL is not that good at all. Well below average. Burrow is just magic. Diminshing the accomplishments of others QB's despite what they have at OL helps us feel better about ourselves. You literally ignore what I wrote and just say what you wanted me to say. I have said several times on this board that Joe Burrows is very good or great. I have said many times that Burrows oline is bad. What I have also said is that Burrows is throwing to Jamar Chase, Higgins and Boyd. I'm pretty sure Burrows prefers throwing to them than he would our guys. |
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Post by jaymas on Feb 1, 2022 15:56:08 GMT -5
I keep seeing this. The difference between Cincy's oline and the Giants is still large, even if Cincy's is bottom 12. Combine that with a better offensive system, game schemes, and skill position players...and yeah. Between Cinci and the Giants there is one above-average (I would say Elite) offensive lineman. his name is Andrew Thomas. I don't disagree. However Cincy's is a real unit...ours not that much. What good is Andrew Thomas if everyone along the line with him should be a backup at best. Some shouldn't be in the league. |
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Post by GameTime on Feb 1, 2022 15:59:48 GMT -5
Daboll can "make him" more effective for sure.
But his ceiling is lot lower then I originally thought or hoped it would be.
I just think Jones will never be a really good NFL QB. He has all the physical tools but he lacks some important instincts that I dont think can be taught.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 1, 2022 16:02:39 GMT -5
Joe Burrows OL is not that good at all. Well below average. Burrow is just magic. Nobody is saying Burrows OL is good. Nobody is saying Burrows is not great. Why do some people ignore that Burrows is throwing to elites skill players? Chase is elite, Boyd and Higgins are not elite, just good WRs. A confident talented QB makes all the difference in the world. Golladay is on their level IMO. Shep is close. We don't know enough about Toney yet because of injury and how they used him. Engram is on their level as a receiver. Jamarr Chase really opened up everything for them on offense, but if you watch their games, Burrow is constantly under duress. This is how you know he is an elite special QB. |
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FBomb
Special Teams
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Post by FBomb on Feb 1, 2022 16:09:31 GMT -5
Here's how I see it. At the worst, DJ is a good stop gap. If they can't make him better, look for a QB next draft. We are tearing down and rebuilding. Next season is a wash anyway.
Just get some viable back up for WHEN Daniel goes down again.
Not to open old wounds, but holy Christ!! Wtf were they thinking with those 2??
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nyg2
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Post by nyg2 on Feb 1, 2022 16:11:39 GMT -5
Even better imagine Burrow was playing with our line and receivers in our last 6 games. He would have loved that so much more than having Jamar Chase, Higgins and Boyd. Am I right? Remember how OBJ looked with bad QB play? WR's are impacted by production at the QB position, tremendously. I think Golloday is a much better WR than DJ is a QB. The limit to our offensive potential is Daniel Jones, not out OL. Some guys don't understand that WR is a DEPENDENT position. Look at how Golladay looked when he had Stafford throwing him the ball vs how he looks with DJ throwing him the ball. How about when Justin Jefferson one of the best WRs in the league criticized Kirk Cousins because he felt he wasn't getting enough targets. Point is a WR can only be as good as the guy passing him the ball. |
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Post by Giggles on Feb 1, 2022 16:12:53 GMT -5
I think Jones' problems lies between his ears. Low football IQ and instincts can't really be removed. You'll have to game plan around these limitations.
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Post by snyder55 on Feb 1, 2022 16:24:14 GMT -5
Even better imagine Burrow was playing with our line and receivers in our last 6 games. He would have loved that so much more than having Jamar Chase, Higgins and Boyd. Am I right? Remember how OBJ looked with bad QB play? WR's are impacted by production at the QB position, tremendously. I think Golloday is a much better WR than DJ is a QB. The limit to our offensive potential is Daniel Jones, not out OL. I know that players play for money but if I were Golladay I would do whatever I could to get out of my contract because he is on a team doing a full rebuild and the best part of his career will be over by the team the Giants get back to full stride.. |
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 1, 2022 16:26:08 GMT -5
Looks like the neck issue is much adu about nothing.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 1, 2022 16:30:26 GMT -5
Remember how OBJ looked with bad QB play? WR's are impacted by production at the QB position, tremendously. I think Golloday is a much better WR than DJ is a QB. The limit to our offensive potential is Daniel Jones, not out OL. Some guys don't understand that WR is a DEPENDENT position. Look at how Golladay looked when he had Stafford throwing him the ball vs how he looks with DJ throwing him the ball. How about when Justin Jefferson one of the best WRs in the league criticized Kirk Cousins because he felt he wasn't getting enough targets. Point is a WR can only be as good as the guy passing him the ball. The QB is just as much or more dependent. KG had a horrible separation rate and a horrible clutch rate (catches/targets). At 48% it was one of the very worst on this team playing with the same QBs. I doubt he would play on Cincy never mind start. |
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Post by McCherry on Feb 1, 2022 16:33:05 GMT -5
Imagine Burrows had an OL He'd go to the super, super bowl. I think those thinking simple fixing the OL is the be all end all solution for Daniel Jones you're in for a rude awakening. He has other, more troubling issues to worry about with his own play. Hope Daboll can fix some of those, to me, you either have those skills are you dont. I keep seeing this. The difference between Cincy's oline and the Giants is still large, even if Cincy's is bottom 12. Combine that with a better offensive system, game schemes, and skill position players...and yeah. Jason Garrett was more of an impediment to the entire offense than just blaming it on the OL. Cincy also has 3 incredible WR's who get open. A better RB, TE. |
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Merc
Special Teams
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Post by Merc on Feb 1, 2022 17:08:07 GMT -5
What can Daboll do for Danny? Get him a functional OL.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 1, 2022 17:10:09 GMT -5
What can Daboll do for Danny? Get him a functional OL. That's on Schoen |
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Merc
Special Teams
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Post by Merc on Feb 1, 2022 17:11:50 GMT -5
What can Daboll do for Danny? Get him a functional OL. That's on Schoen Probably both. |
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Post by lt56 on Feb 1, 2022 17:25:05 GMT -5
yeah the Offensive Line being the Excuse for DJ is official DEAD considering the BEATING I seen Joe Burrow took this entire Playoffs
Stafford Line is not all that better either, two Super Bowl teams with very Average Lines, I would say the Bengals Line is Below Average
So Yeah I just think getting the ball out FASTER and using his mobility and excellent athleticism to make big plays down the Field instead of using his Athleticism for Designed Runs and getting him injured again...
Josh Allen is a special talent with an incredible Arm so a lot of these things DJ just cannot do BUT he does match Allen in Athleticism I think
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