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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 1, 2022 18:19:04 GMT -5
To answer the question? Design the offense around what he does good and is comfortable with,(and to those that want to attack me for being logical,do it for the next guy as well if we move on).
Far better chance of success...and not jamming a trapezoid into a square hole like what happened the past 2 years ..
FWIW a lot of the top qbs this happens between coaching staff and qb..
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Post by Roosevelt on Feb 1, 2022 20:43:20 GMT -5
Daboll can "make him" more effective for sure. But his ceiling is lot lower then I originally thought or hoped it would be. I just think Jones will never be a really good NFL QB. He has all the physical tools but he lacks some important instincts that I dont think can be taught. I get that sentiment now but didn't he surprise you in year 1? He was much better than I expected except he was a bit careless with the fumbles.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Feb 1, 2022 20:50:19 GMT -5
yeah the Offensive Line being the Excuse for DJ is official DEAD considering the BEATING I seen Joe Burrow took this entire Playoffs Stafford Line is not all that better either, two Super Bowl teams with very Average Lines, I would say the Bengals Line is Below Average So Yeah I just think getting the ball out FASTER and using his mobility and excellent athleticism to make big plays down the Field instead of using his Athleticism for Designed Runs and getting him injured again... Josh Allen is a special talent with an incredible Arm so a lot of these things DJ just cannot do BUT he does match Allen in Athleticism I think www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankingsBengals OL was ranked 20th...ours was ranked 30th in 2021. Also Consider that in those middle ranked teams, 15-20, there really isn't much difference...Comparing a middling OL to an almost dead last one is kinda reaching.
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Post by Jomo on Feb 1, 2022 20:57:22 GMT -5
I keep seeing this. The difference between Cincy's oline and the Giants is still large, even if Cincy's is bottom 12. Combine that with a better offensive system, game schemes, and skill position players...and yeah. Between Cinci and the Giants there is one above-average (I would say Elite) offensive lineman. his name is Andrew Thomas. I won't throw around the elite label just yet but he is developing into a gem right now. Hopefully it continues.
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Post by bigblueones on Feb 1, 2022 21:36:45 GMT -5
I'm not a big college guy but I think DJ was MVP of both bowl games he played in. I think he threw for over 400 yards and 5tds in the bowl game before he was drafted as a JR. I think Dabol and company will get things done. All the eyes are on the wrong position in my opinion. I think 85% of our focus should be on the oline. My concerns in order: 1. Oline and its not even close. 2. WR which looks really bad. 3. Pass Rush which we were near the bottom of the NFL. BINGO BINGO BINGO and BINGO is your Name O Yes. I think DJ will be OK, maybe not great, but enough to get us to the next franchise QB. I do think JM was right when he said "We did everything we could to screw this kid up.." He just didn't mention it was HIS fault. Give him a line, a few targets (no we did NOT have targets) and a TE who is real, and get rid of Barkley, and he'll do OK. His deep ball is good, his legs are good, the problem is they made him try to do too much. Is he Eli? No. And Eli was a Gomer, there was plenty of Eli bashing for years. But we're not drafting a QB so forget about that. We can't afford Rodgers so forget about that. I would suggest folks get used to Daniel Jones under center for at LEAST another season.
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Post by Sarcasman on Feb 2, 2022 1:25:29 GMT -5
Even better imagine Burrow was playing with our line and receivers in our last 6 games. He would have loved that so much more than having Jamar Chase, Higgins and Boyd. Am I right? Remember how OBJ looked with bad QB play? WR's are impacted by production at the QB position, tremendously. I think Golloday is a much better WR than DJ is a QB. The limit to our offensive potential is Daniel Jones, not out OL. That's the truth. I wish the best for him and the team but I'm not optimistic.
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Post by Sarcasman on Feb 2, 2022 1:28:20 GMT -5
Even better imagine Burrow was playing with our line and receivers in our last 6 games. He would have loved that so much more than having Jamar Chase, Higgins and Boyd. Am I right? Joe Burrows OL is not that good at all. Well below average. Burrow is just magic. The AFC is gonna see some great football for a lot of years. Mahomes, Allen, Burrow damn.
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Feb 2, 2022 1:28:54 GMT -5
Get him a decent oline. He has the tools and athleticism already.
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Post by GameTime on Feb 2, 2022 13:04:52 GMT -5
Daboll can "make him" more effective for sure. But his ceiling is lot lower then I originally thought or hoped it would be. I just think Jones will never be a really good NFL QB. He has all the physical tools but he lacks some important instincts that I dont think can be taught. I get that sentiment now but didn't he surprise you in year 1? He was much better than I expected except he was a bit careless with the fumbles. gonna sit back and watch Rosie. I've been wrong so much in hoping for this or that the last several years. Time to expect nothing and just let it play out
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 2, 2022 15:46:16 GMT -5
Joe Burrows OL is not that good at all. Well below average. Burrow is just magic. The AFC is gonna see some great football for a lot of years. Mahomes, Allen, Burrow damn. Looks liks Rodgers as well in Denver
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Post by Rangers13 on Feb 2, 2022 15:57:15 GMT -5
Really need to abolish this cheesy nickname.
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Post by jaymas on Feb 2, 2022 16:00:43 GMT -5
The AFC is gonna see some great football for a lot of years. Mahomes, Allen, Burrow damn. Looks liks Rodgers as well in Denver Denver really gonna pull off the acquisition of two legends in their later years and get Superbowl out of it...would be wild if they can do it again.
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Post by DandyDon on Feb 2, 2022 16:01:57 GMT -5
Honestly, Jones has improved. The team around him hasn't which is why it hasn't translated. I've been back and forth with supporting him but this year will let us know all we need to know. Even if it's because of the team around him again, it's just time to start over and let him move on Frankly, I'm not sure this year is going to show us anything about him, unless things around him improve substantialy. And I'm our current cap situation, there's no guarantee of that.
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Post by idkaname on Feb 2, 2022 16:05:09 GMT -5
Honestly, Jones has improved. The team around him hasn't which is why it hasn't translated. I've been back and forth with supporting him but this year will let us know all we need to know. Even if it's because of the team around him again, it's just time to start over and let him move on Frankly, I'm not sure this year is going to show us anything about him, unless things around him improve substantialy. And I'm our current cap situation, there's no guarantee of that. Well that's kind of my point...he'll have to shine through the sewage or get dumped because we might as well groom a new guy through a rebuild
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Post by Kruunch on Feb 2, 2022 16:22:16 GMT -5
Really need to abolish this cheesy nickname. Dumbest nickname imaginable..
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Post by thetruth on Feb 2, 2022 16:26:00 GMT -5
Get him a decent oline. He has the tools and athleticism already. Which tools? You said Athleticism. Yes, but thats not a factor really. no more running, not what the neck. What else does he bring to the table? - Accuracy? - Pocket Awareness? - Post snap play recognition? - The ability to throw off platform? - Arm Strength? - Protecting the ball? These are the most important traits for a QB. When we stop focusing so much on the OL and evaluate Danny on the above, relative to his peers. How does he stack up? QB's with elite traits get ahead. For example, Burrow is elite in everything, with the exception of throwing off platform and arm strength. DJ is average at best is some, below average in others.
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Post by GameTime on Feb 2, 2022 16:27:17 GMT -5
Really need to abolish this cheesy nickname. Dumbest nickname imaginable.. that nick name went by the wayside. Its not even fitting. Not many use it anymore
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Post by Kase1 on Feb 2, 2022 16:36:19 GMT -5
Dumbest nickname imaginable.. that nick name went by the wayside. Its not even fitting. Not many use it anymore And if he really turns the corner and looks like our future qb, I'll be bringing it back!!! Love the nickname, haven't used it since his play never lived up to it
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Post by Kruunch on Feb 2, 2022 16:38:10 GMT -5
Get him a decent oline. He has the tools and athleticism already. Which tools? You said Athleticism. Yes, but thats not a factor really. no more running, not what the neck. What else does he bring to the table? - Accuracy? - Pocket Awareness? - Post snap play recognition? - The ability to throw off platform? - Arm Strength? - Protecting the ball? These are the most important traits for a QB. When we stop focusing so much on the OL and evaluate Danny on the above, relative to his peers. How does he stack up? QB's with elite traits get ahead. For example, Burrow is elite in everything, with the exception of throwing off platform and arm strength. DJ is average at best is some, below average in others. Joe Burrow put holes in the theory that you can’t play with a subpar offensive line. Danny Dimebags has been giving every excuse in the book. Since the Giants drafted him they have coddled and protected him at every turn. The last straw was when they came out with saying they let him down. Right, I guess it’s even now. Because, he has let the team down. When you need to surround your quarterback with great players to play on an even level field, you don’t have your quarterback. If we roll with Jones with no viable plan b, we deserve everything that comes from it.
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Post by GameTime on Feb 2, 2022 16:42:22 GMT -5
that nick name went by the wayside. Its not even fitting. Not many use it anymore And if he really turns the corner and looks like our future qb, I'll be bringing it back!!! Love the nickname, haven't used it since his play never lived up to it doesnt really effect me either way. Nick names that express some sort of "talent" as an athlete are double edge swords. You start to suck and the nick name becomes a joke
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Post by idkaname on Feb 2, 2022 16:42:27 GMT -5
yeah the Offensive Line being the Excuse for DJ is official DEAD considering the BEATING I seen Joe Burrow took this entire Playoffs Stafford Line is not all that better either, two Super Bowl teams with very Average Lines, I would say the Bengals Line is Below Average So Yeah I just think getting the ball out FASTER and using his mobility and excellent athleticism to make big plays down the Field instead of using his Athleticism for Designed Runs and getting him injured again... Josh Allen is a special talent with an incredible Arm so a lot of these things DJ just cannot do BUT he does match Allen in Athleticism I think The part you ignored is the refs not calling the holding on the first play, which we know always gets called against us. so there's that. funny how the "good" teams always get away with penalties and the "bad" teams get "unlucky" with missed/blown calls
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Post by thetruth on Feb 2, 2022 16:43:56 GMT -5
Which tools? You said Athleticism. Yes, but thats not a factor really. no more running, not what the neck. What else does he bring to the table? - Accuracy? - Pocket Awareness? - Post snap play recognition? - The ability to throw off platform? - Arm Strength? - Protecting the ball? These are the most important traits for a QB. When we stop focusing so much on the OL and evaluate Danny on the above, relative to his peers. How does he stack up? QB's with elite traits get ahead. For example, Burrow is elite in everything, with the exception of throwing off platform and arm strength. DJ is average at best is some, below average in others. Joe Burrow put holes in the theory that you can’t play with a subpar offensive line. Danny Dimebags has been giving every excuse in the book. Since the Giants drafted him they have coddled and protected him at every turn. The last straw was when they came out with saying they let him down. Right, I guess it’s even now. Because, he has let the team down. When you need to surround your quarterback with great players to play on an even level field, you don’t have your quarterback. If we roll with Jones with no viable plan b, we deserve everything that comes from it. Absolutely right. We can't just think of a new scapegoat every spring and "fix" it only to be shocked when there was, naturally, a lot more to our issues on offense than just "weapons" or "ol". Its takes a group effort to be this bad Yes we have an OL issue, but if we dont see that QB is also an issue based on evidence presented I honestly dont know what to tell you. Prepare to be shocked, I suppose.
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Post by thetruth on Feb 2, 2022 16:47:33 GMT -5
Which tools? You said Athleticism. Yes, but thats not a factor really. no more running, not what the neck. What else does he bring to the table? - Accuracy? - Pocket Awareness? - Post snap play recognition? - The ability to throw off platform? - Arm Strength? - Protecting the ball? These are the most important traits for a QB. When we stop focusing so much on the OL and evaluate Danny on the above, relative to his peers. How does he stack up? QB's with elite traits get ahead. For example, Burrow is elite in everything, with the exception of throwing off platform and arm strength. DJ is average at best is some, below average in others. Joe Burrow put holes in the theory that you can’t play with a subpar offensive line. Danny Dimebags has been giving every excuse in the book. Since the Giants drafted him they have coddled and protected him at every turn. The last straw was when they came out with saying they let him down. Right, I guess it’s even now. Because, he has let the team down. When you need to surround your quarterback with great players to play on an even level field, you don’t have your quarterback. If we roll with Jones with no viable plan b, we deserve everything that comes from it. /photo/1 they dont even have one decent starter, they're all playing worse in the post season
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 2, 2022 17:23:39 GMT -5
Get him a decent oline. He has the tools and athleticism already. Which tools? You said Athleticism. Yes, but thats not a factor really. no more running, not what the neck. What else does he bring to the table? - Accuracy?- Pocket Awareness? - Post snap play recognition? - The ability to throw off platform? - Arm Strength? - Protecting the ball? These are the most important traits for a QB. When we stop focusing so much on the OL and evaluate Danny on the above, relative to his peers. How does he stack up? QB's with elite traits get ahead. For example, Burrow is elite in everything, with the exception of throwing off platform and arm strength. DJ is average at best is some, below average in others. Shawn Ohara said that Danny is more accurate than Eli and throws a better ball as well. Was he lying?
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 2, 2022 17:25:44 GMT -5
Which tools? You said Athleticism. Yes, but thats not a factor really. no more running, not what the neck. What else does he bring to the table? - Accuracy? - Pocket Awareness? - Post snap play recognition? - The ability to throw off platform? - Arm Strength? - Protecting the ball? These are the most important traits for a QB. When we stop focusing so much on the OL and evaluate Danny on the above, relative to his peers. How does he stack up? QB's with elite traits get ahead. For example, Burrow is elite in everything, with the exception of throwing off platform and arm strength. DJ is average at best is some, below average in others. Joe Burrow put holes in the theory that you can’t play with a subpar offensive line. Danny Dimebags has been giving every excuse in the book. Since the Giants drafted him they have coddled and protected him at every turn. The last straw was when they came out with saying they let him down. Right, I guess it’s even now. Because, he has let the team down. When you need to surround your quarterback with great players to play on an even level field, you don’t have your quarterback. If we roll with Jones with no viable plan b, we deserve everything that comes from it. Get back to us when he does it without Mixon, Jamar Chase, Boyd and Higgins. Get back to use when it is many QB's doing it not only the #1 draft pick of the whole NFL.
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Post by thetruth on Feb 2, 2022 17:27:57 GMT -5
Which tools? You said Athleticism. Yes, but thats not a factor really. no more running, not what the neck. What else does he bring to the table? - Accuracy?- Pocket Awareness? - Post snap play recognition? - The ability to throw off platform? - Arm Strength? - Protecting the ball? These are the most important traits for a QB. When we stop focusing so much on the OL and evaluate Danny on the above, relative to his peers. How does he stack up? QB's with elite traits get ahead. For example, Burrow is elite in everything, with the exception of throwing off platform and arm strength. DJ is average at best is some, below average in others. Shawn Ohara said that Danny is more accurate than Eli and throws a better ball as well. Was he lying? Yes
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Post by Kruunch on Feb 2, 2022 17:40:53 GMT -5
Joe Burrow put holes in the theory that you can’t play with a subpar offensive line. Danny Dimebags has been giving every excuse in the book. Since the Giants drafted him they have coddled and protected him at every turn. The last straw was when they came out with saying they let him down. Right, I guess it’s even now. Because, he has let the team down. When you need to surround your quarterback with great players to play on an even level field, you don’t have your quarterback. If we roll with Jones with no viable plan b, we deserve everything that comes from it. Get back to us when he does it without Mixon, Jamar Chase, Boyd and Higgins. Get back to use when it is many QB's doing it not only the #1 draft pick of the whole NFL. I’ll get back to you now, he’s in the super bowl. A Bengals franchise that is arguably the worst run team in American sports. Is a game away from being champions. And that’s in part to their quarterback. Yeah, he’s got weapons. But, their biggest artillery is Joe Burrow. Get back to me when Jones isn’t a meme.
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Post by jaymas on Feb 2, 2022 17:43:03 GMT -5
Get him a decent oline. He has the tools and athleticism already. Which tools? You said Athleticism. Yes, but thats not a factor really. no more running, not what the neck. What else does he bring to the table? - Accuracy?- Pocket Awareness? - Post snap play recognition? - The ability to throw off platform?- Arm Strength?- Protecting the ball? These are the most important traits for a QB. When we stop focusing so much on the OL and evaluate Danny on the above, relative to his peers. How does he stack up? QB's with elite traits get ahead. For example, Burrow is elite in everything, with the exception of throwing off platform and arm strength. DJ is average at best is some, below average in others. I think he's demonstrated all of those are at a well above average level. I worry about #2 and the last one, though I believe both can be coached. Post snap play recognition is so dependent on system and game scheme. Don't have a sense of whether or not he is good at either, we just know that people generally think he's smart. Athleticism goes well beyond the ability to run. Don't think those things are 1 to 1.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 2, 2022 17:53:48 GMT -5
Get back to us when he does it without Mixon, Jamar Chase, Boyd and Higgins. Get back to use when it is many QB's doing it not only the #1 draft pick of the whole NFL. I’ll get back to you now, he’s in the super bowl. A Bengals franchise that is arguably the worst run team in American sports. Is a game away from being champions. And that’s in part to their quarterback. Yeah, he’s got weapons. But, their biggest artillery is Joe Burrow. Get back to me when Jones isn’t a meme. Burrows is a great QB. If Joe can throw 95 yards that does not mean that every other QB needs to throw 95 yards. It would be great to have a Joe Burrows but there is just the one so we will have to hope that our guy stapes up once he gets better coaching, protection and some guys to get open that can catch the ball. Please do not come back with Kenny Golladay. Its been a long day and I do not have the energy to explain why KG is not Jamar Chase.
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Post by thetruth on Feb 2, 2022 17:54:04 GMT -5
Which tools? You said Athleticism. Yes, but thats not a factor really. no more running, not what the neck. What else does he bring to the table? - Accuracy?- Pocket Awareness? - Post snap play recognition? - The ability to throw off platform?- Arm Strength?- Protecting the ball? These are the most important traits for a QB. When we stop focusing so much on the OL and evaluate Danny on the above, relative to his peers. How does he stack up? QB's with elite traits get ahead. For example, Burrow is elite in everything, with the exception of throwing off platform and arm strength. DJ is average at best is some, below average in others. I think he's demonstrated all of those are at a well above average level. I worry about #2 and the last one, though I believe both can be coached. Post snap play recognition is so dependent on system and game scheme. Don't have a sense of whether or not he is good at either, we just know that people generally think he's smart. Athleticism goes well beyond the ability to run. Don't think those things are 1 to 1. - Accuracy on his first read? agreed. However, when he has to relocate he struggles. I do like his downfield accuracy though, its a strength regardless of situation. - Ability to throw off platform is something that DJ struggles with. He doesn't throw well with various arm angles or particularly on the run. Think about Mahomes/Allen, they're the best with this. DJ is definitely most effective in the pocket. -In terms of being an athlete, DJ is fast, but not agile, nor does he understand how to slide as a QB. This negates his speed benefit as he simply doesn't know how to avoid punishment.
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