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Post by Nick6475 on Nov 9, 2023 14:56:29 GMT -5
I honestly wonder, and think it’s a fair question to ask, if Schoen feels more pressure to draft a QB than trade back and here’s why. If he drafts a new QB, it will buy him at least 2 more years no matter how bad they do IMO. It’s probably safe to assume they won’t be making the playoffs the rookies first year and maybe start making a playoff push in 2025. On the other hand, if he trades back and adds a few more pieces then we probably still don’t make the playoffs with whatever mish mash of QB’s we have playing next year. So then we draft a rookie QB in 2025, he has a typical rookie season and then that’s 2 years of losing. That means the earliest we can make a playoff push would be 2026. I don’t know if Mara would have the patience for that, BUT if Schien drafts a QB and he shows he’s an obvious franchise QB within the first two years, I think Mara would be a little more tolerant. Just a thought. To sum it up, drafting a rookie QB buys him more time IMO. Not that I have any say in what the Giants management does, but I would prefer Schoen not draft a QB this year, fill some other holes and maybe accrue some 2025 picks. Get the team in an overall better shape (minus QB) for next year and then look at getting a QB in 2025. I think that is probably be better long term play, but I wouldn't blame him if he wanted to go short term with a rookie QB to temporarily prolong his GM career.
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Post by McCherry on Nov 9, 2023 15:03:03 GMT -5
I honestly wonder, and think it’s a fair question to ask, if Schoen feels more pressure to draft a QB than trade back and here’s why. If he drafts a new QB, it will buy him at least 2 more years no matter how bad they do IMO. It’s probably safe to assume they won’t be making the playoffs the rookies first year and maybe start making a playoff push in 2025. On the other hand, if he trades back and adds a few more pieces then we probably still don’t make the playoffs with whatever mish mash of QB’s we have playing next year. So then we draft a rookie QB in 2025, he has a typical rookie season and then that’s 2 years of losing. That means the earliest we can make a playoff push would be 2026. I don’t know if Mara would have the patience for that, BUT if Schien drafts a QB and he shows he’s an obvious franchise QB within the first two years, I think Mara would be a little more tolerant. Just a thought. To sum it up, drafting a rookie QB buys him more time IMO. It's really Daboll who gets immediate job security with a rookie QB. I think Schoen is much safer than the coaches. He only signed the QB Daboll wanted. But you need a QB in this league. It's something you can't work around. It solidifies the locker room, fanbase, everything. Fans say, let's build up the OL before we get a QB. A good OL without a good QB is just as useless the other way around. You can't move forward without the QB of the present/future on your roster. The meat of the QB crop is on day two and three. With the extra second round pick, it makes sense to take a shot.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Nov 9, 2023 15:05:21 GMT -5
In terms of talent to succeed in the NFL I give Williams a 9. In terms of intangibles to succeed in the NFL I give him a 2. What is this scale based on? how would you score DJ based on the same scale? based on what I've seen 5 and 1 or 2
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Post by inconvenientruth on Nov 9, 2023 16:33:47 GMT -5
What is this scale based on? how would you score DJ based on the same scale? based on what I've seen 5 and 1 or 2 I would argue that from an intangible standpoint, Jones is the same as he was at Duke as he is today. Which is very poor. He doesn't sense pressure, doesn't throw with anticipation, doesn't look off receivers, and is a very slow processor. Williams fumble issues are entirely based on him holding the ball too long, not because of a slow processor, but because he's trying to make a play downfield and playing out of structure when he doenst need to. He also forces passes into coverage, downfield, as he erroneously thinks he can put the ball anywhere downfield, i mean, he has plenty of tape showing he can, but doesn't make it a good decision. Similar to Josh Allen in this regard. Context is important. Using Mike's scale DJ is in the negatives.
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Post by vinnie on Nov 9, 2023 16:39:10 GMT -5
I honestly wonder, and think it’s a fair question to ask, if Schoen feels more pressure to draft a QB than trade back and here’s why. If he drafts a new QB, it will buy him at least 2 more years no matter how bad they do IMO. It’s probably safe to assume they won’t be making the playoffs the rookies first year and maybe start making a playoff push in 2025. On the other hand, if he trades back and adds a few more pieces then we probably still don’t make the playoffs with whatever mish mash of QB’s we have playing next year. So then we draft a rookie QB in 2025, he has a typical rookie season and then that’s 2 years of losing. That means the earliest we can make a playoff push would be 2026. I don’t know if Mara would have the patience for that, BUT if Schien drafts a QB and he shows he’s an obvious franchise QB within the first two years, I think Mara would be a little more tolerant. Just a thought. To sum it up, drafting a rookie QB buys him more time IMO. Not that I have any say in what the Giants management does, but I would prefer Schoen not draft a QB this year, fill some other holes and maybe accrue some 2025 picks. Get the team in an overall better shape (minus QB) for next year and then look at getting a QB in 2025. I think that is probably be better long term play, but I wouldn't blame him if he wanted to go short term with a rookie QB to temporarily prolong his GM career. I’m pretty torn right now. For the past few years all I’ve preached is putting together a solid roster and THEN drafting a QB so you have him on a rookie contract and he starts off in a position to succeed. I’ve even said the QB doesn’t even have to be that good, just a bus driver, IF he is surrounded by lots and lost of talent.Now, after watching Jones for the past 5 years, I’m itching for a QB that can show us he’s our franchise QB. I want instant gratification, lol. I dunno, granted I won’t pretend to know the first thing about scouting college QB’s and how they’ll translate to the NFL and apparently most of the media doesn’t either considering the historic bust rate at QB’s they hype up every year. From the little I’ve seen of Williams, I haven’t been impressed but that means nothing, maybe he will turn out to be Mahomes Lite or maybe he’ll be just ok. I guess at this point I just have to trust Schoen because I do believe that if there’s a QB they truly think is “the guy” then they better get him now and worry about the rest of the roster later in the draft and free agency. Imagine if KC passed on Mahomes because their roster wasn’t up to snuff yet, they probably wouldn’t have a single ring yet. I’m confused on what they should do, maybe the more I watch these QB’s and where the Giants end up picking, I’ll be more persuaded one way or the other.
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nyg2
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Post by nyg2 on Nov 9, 2023 16:55:49 GMT -5
If we have the first or second pick, we should trade it for multiple high picks. Our roster is still very needy. imho I go back and forth with trade to take the QB if Schoen likes his job he has to be thinking if they are here again in a couple years trying to draft a QB he won't be the one making that pick. If they can get their guy with their #1 picking not have to trade the world to get their man, Think they need to consider it strongly. They will have 2 second round picks and their 3rd to bolster the roster. Either way right now I would not complain but I do think from everything I have seen from Jones that last year was an outlier and his health isn't worth the GM and coach risking their jobs over. If we are picking in the top-2, the choice either has to be QB or trade out of the pick. Some like Marvin Harrison Jr., but they are the very same individuals that complained about positional value when we took Saquon Barkley with the second overall pick. To me at least if we do manage to get a top-2 pick, Schoen will thoroughly study all the QBs and will be under enormous pressure to take a QB. Not from just the fanbase, but internally as well. The argument that if he takes a QB, he buys himself along with Daboll extra time does have merit to it. Any trade would almost certainly have to be an offer that you can't refuse, because you don't know where that future first round pick(s) will be and it's not like you get this opportunity every year to be picking a QB prospect at the top of the draft.
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Post by imgrate on Nov 9, 2023 18:37:35 GMT -5
I go back and forth with trade to take the QB if Schoen likes his job he has to be thinking if they are here again in a couple years trying to draft a QB he won't be the one making that pick. If they can get their guy with their #1 picking not have to trade the world to get their man, Think they need to consider it strongly. They will have 2 second round picks and their 3rd to bolster the roster. Either way right now I would not complain but I do think from everything I have seen from Jones that last year was an outlier and his health isn't worth the GM and coach risking their jobs over. If we are picking in the top-2, the choice either has to be QB or trade out of the pick. Some like Marvin Harrison Jr., but they are the very same individuals that complained about positional value when we took Saquon Barkley with the second overall pick. To me at least if we do manage to get a top-2 pick, Schoen will thoroughly study all the QBs and will be under enormous pressure to take a QB. Not from just the fanbase, but internally as well. The argument that if he takes a QB, he buys himself along with Daboll extra time does have merit to it. Any trade would almost certainly have to be an offer that you can't refuse, because you don't know where that future first round pick(s) will be and it's not like you get this opportunity every year to be picking a QB prospect at the top of the draft. I’m not arguing for marvin harrison jr, but the positional value of WRs is much much greater than a RB and makes it a reasonable position to draft early. For reference, the AAV of the #2 pick this year is 9m/yr, that would be the 31st highest paid WR in the league on an AAV basis. On the other hand, it would be the 10th highest paid RB. Additionally, the differential between the highest paid WR and the #2 pick is 22mill/yr, whereas for runningbacks it is 7mill/yr.
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Post by giantbob71 on Nov 9, 2023 18:54:34 GMT -5
I honestly wonder, and think it’s a fair question to ask, if Schoen feels more pressure to draft a QB than trade back and here’s why. If he drafts a new QB, it will buy him at least 2 more years no matter how bad they do IMO. It’s probably safe to assume they won’t be making the playoffs the rookies first year and maybe start making a playoff push in 2025. On the other hand, if he trades back and adds a few more pieces then we probably still don’t make the playoffs with whatever mish mash of QB’s we have playing next year. So then we draft a rookie QB in 2025, he has a typical rookie season and then that’s 2 years of losing. That means the earliest we can make a playoff push would be 2026. I don’t know if Mara would have the patience for that, BUT if Schien drafts a QB and he shows he’s an obvious franchise QB within the first two years, I think Mara would be a little more tolerant. Just a thought. To sum it up, drafting a rookie QB buys him more time IMO. It's really Daboll who gets immediate job security with a rookie QB. I think Schoen is much safer than the coaches. But you need a QB in this league. It's something you can't work around. It solidifies the locker room, fanbase, everything. Fans say, let's build up the OL before we get a QB. A good OL without a good QB is just as useless the other way around. You can't move forward without the QB of the present/future on your roster. The meat of the QB crop is on day two and three. With the extra second round pick, it makes sense to take a shot. Couldn't disagree more. Schoen was the one who ultimately gave DJ a stupid contract. The poor QB play (and OLine moves) this year is on him. If we go into next year with poor QB play, and no excuse (rookie QB), Schoen might not (shouldn't) survive the season. The idea that Schoen is going to be here for a long time, without making smart moves (DJ, Neal, letting both starting OGs walk, Slayton, Campbell, etc.), is silly. He needs to reset the clock with a rookie QB. Nobody should expect greatness from a rookie, so it buys him 2 years, minimum.
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Post by Rangers13 on Nov 9, 2023 18:56:10 GMT -5
I honestly wonder, and think it’s a fair question to ask, if Schoen feels more pressure to draft a QB than trade back and here’s why. If he drafts a new QB, it will buy him at least 2 more years no matter how bad they do IMO. It’s probably safe to assume they won’t be making the playoffs the rookies first year and maybe start making a playoff push in 2025. On the other hand, if he trades back and adds a few more pieces then we probably still don’t make the playoffs with whatever mish mash of QB’s we have playing next year. So then we draft a rookie QB in 2025, he has a typical rookie season and then that’s 2 years of losing. That means the earliest we can make a playoff push would be 2026. I don’t know if Mara would have the patience for that, BUT if Schien drafts a QB and he shows he’s an obvious franchise QB within the first two years, I think Mara would be a little more tolerant. Just a thought. To sum it up, drafting a rookie QB buys him more time IMO. he goes QB. I’m going with my QB and not somebody else’s at this point. Win or lose, I played to win by going QB. I’m not playing not to lose by playing a hope card with a guy with neck and knee issues who is questionable at reading defenses.
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Post by McCherry on Nov 9, 2023 19:16:33 GMT -5
If we are picking in the top-2, the choice either has to be QB or trade out of the pick. Some like Marvin Harrison Jr., but they are the very same individuals that complained about positional value when we took Saquon Barkley with the second overall pick. To me at least if we do manage to get a top-2 pick, Schoen will thoroughly study all the QBs and will be under enormous pressure to take a QB. Not from just the fanbase, but internally as well. The argument that if he takes a QB, he buys himself along with Daboll extra time does have merit to it. Any trade would almost certainly have to be an offer that you can't refuse, because you don't know where that future first round pick(s) will be and it's not like you get this opportunity every year to be picking a QB prospect at the top of the draft. I’m not arguing for marvin harrison jr, but the positional value of WRs is much much greater than a RB and makes it a reasonable position to draft early. For reference, the AAV of the #2 pick this year is 9m/yr, that would be the 31st highest paid WR in the league on an AAV basis. On the other hand, it would be the 10th highest paid RB. Additionally, the differential between the highest paid WR and the #2 pick is 22mill/yr, whereas for runningbacks it is 7mill/yr. No question, WR's are commonly drafted top 10. Harrison is ranked right behind the two QB's, which could align with where we end up. The Giants QB most likely is taken in the second round, or late first in a trade up.
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Post by IrishMike on Nov 9, 2023 19:47:42 GMT -5
I'd trade back if we could get a deal like what the Rams gave up in 2016.
2- First round picks 2- Second round picks 2- Third round picks
This year we would have a first, three seconds, two thirds. Plus two firsts, two seconds, two thirds next year. Add Brock Bowers (or Dallas Turner or Jer'zhan Newton), Taliese Fuaga RT and move Neal to RG.
After 2024 if Jones hasn't recovered or just isn't the guy at least we will have lots of picks and pieces in place to make a move for a QB if needed.
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nyg2
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Post by nyg2 on Nov 9, 2023 21:15:36 GMT -5
If we are picking in the top-2, the choice either has to be QB or trade out of the pick. Some like Marvin Harrison Jr., but they are the very same individuals that complained about positional value when we took Saquon Barkley with the second overall pick. To me at least if we do manage to get a top-2 pick, Schoen will thoroughly study all the QBs and will be under enormous pressure to take a QB. Not from just the fanbase, but internally as well. The argument that if he takes a QB, he buys himself along with Daboll extra time does have merit to it. Any trade would almost certainly have to be an offer that you can't refuse, because you don't know where that future first round pick(s) will be and it's not like you get this opportunity every year to be picking a QB prospect at the top of the draft. I’m not arguing for marvin harrison jr, but the positional value of WRs is much much greater than a RB and makes it a reasonable position to draft early. For reference, the AAV of the #2 pick this year is 9m/yr, that would be the 31st highest paid WR in the league on an AAV basis. On the other hand, it would be the 10th highest paid RB. Additionally, the differential between the highest paid WR and the #2 pick is 22mill/yr, whereas for runningbacks it is 7mill/yr. I agree the positional value of WR is greater than RB, what I'm saying is it wouldn't make much sense that if you have top-2 pick, where it seems right now Williams and Maye will go 1 and 2 in next years draft to take any position other than QB. Particularly since we have so many holes on this team and QB is on top of that list. If you have a top-2 pick, I think Schoen should evaluate all the QBs coming out and if he doesn't like any of them trade out of the pick to a QB needy team, because it's not like every year you'll get the opportunity to take a QB prospect at the top of the draft, so even if those first round pick(s) you get via trade aren't that great they give you the necessary ammo to move up.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Nov 10, 2023 7:16:32 GMT -5
based on what I've seen 5 and 1 or 2 I would argue that from an intangible standpoint, Jones is the same as he was at Duke as he is today. Which is very poor. He doesn't sense pressure, doesn't throw with anticipation, doesn't look off receivers, and is a very slow processor. Williams fumble issues are entirely based on him holding the ball too long, not because of a slow processor, but because he's trying to make a play downfield and playing out of structure when he doenst need to. He also forces passes into coverage, downfield, as he erroneously thinks he can put the ball anywhere downfield, i mean, he has plenty of tape showing he can, but doesn't make it a good decision. Similar to Josh Allen in this regard. Context is important. Using Mike's scale DJ is in the negatives. from what I've seen of Williams I would not touch it. I'm curious to see though how he'll work out in the NFL
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Post by myronguyton29 on Nov 10, 2023 7:18:11 GMT -5
Not that I have any say in what the Giants management does, but I would prefer Schoen not draft a QB this year, fill some other holes and maybe accrue some 2025 picks. Get the team in an overall better shape (minus QB) for next year and then look at getting a QB in 2025. I think that is probably be better long term play, but I wouldn't blame him if he wanted to go short term with a rookie QB to temporarily prolong his GM career. I’m pretty torn right now. For the past few years all I’ve preached is putting together a solid roster and THEN drafting a QB so you have him on a rookie contract and he starts off in a position to succeed. I’ve even said the QB doesn’t even have to be that good, just a bus driver, IF he is surrounded by lots and lost of talent.Now, after watching Jones for the past 5 years, I’m itching for a QB that can show us he’s our franchise QB. I want instant gratification, lol. I dunno, granted I won’t pretend to know the first thing about scouting college QB’s and how they’ll translate to the NFL and apparently most of the media doesn’t either considering the historic bust rate at QB’s they hype up every year. From the little I’ve seen of Williams, I haven’t been impressed but that means nothing, maybe he will turn out to be Mahomes Lite or maybe he’ll be just ok. I guess at this point I just have to trust Schoen because I do believe that if there’s a QB they truly think is “the guy” then they better get him now and worry about the rest of the roster later in the draft and free agency. Imagine if KC passed on Mahomes because their roster wasn’t up to snuff yet, they probably wouldn’t have a single ring yet. I’m confused on what they should do, maybe the more I watch these QB’s and where the Giants end up picking, I’ll be more persuaded one way or the other. pretty much how I feel overall........................
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Post by myronguyton29 on Nov 10, 2023 7:20:32 GMT -5
I go back and forth with trade to take the QB if Schoen likes his job he has to be thinking if they are here again in a couple years trying to draft a QB he won't be the one making that pick. If they can get their guy with their #1 picking not have to trade the world to get their man, Think they need to consider it strongly. They will have 2 second round picks and their 3rd to bolster the roster. Either way right now I would not complain but I do think from everything I have seen from Jones that last year was an outlier and his health isn't worth the GM and coach risking their jobs over. If we are picking in the top-2, the choice either has to be QB or trade out of the pick. Some like Marvin Harrison Jr., but they are the very same individuals that complained about positional value when we took Saquon Barkley with the second overall pick. To me at least if we do manage to get a top-2 pick, Schoen will thoroughly study all the QBs and will be under enormous pressure to take a QB. Not from just the fanbase, but internally as well. The argument that if he takes a QB, he buys himself along with Daboll extra time does have merit to it. Any trade would almost certainly have to be an offer that you can't refuse, because you don't know where that future first round pick(s) will be and it's not like you get this opportunity every year to be picking a QB prospect at the top of the draft. i agree and somewhat agree on the first few lines you said on qb or move out. For me it just depends ..............
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Post by myronguyton29 on Nov 10, 2023 7:22:26 GMT -5
It's really Daboll who gets immediate job security with a rookie QB. I think Schoen is much safer than the coaches. But you need a QB in this league. It's something you can't work around. It solidifies the locker room, fanbase, everything. Fans say, let's build up the OL before we get a QB. A good OL without a good QB is just as useless the other way around. You can't move forward without the QB of the present/future on your roster. The meat of the QB crop is on day two and three. With the extra second round pick, it makes sense to take a shot. Couldn't disagree more. Schoen was the one who ultimately gave DJ a stupid contract. The poor QB play (and OLine moves) this year is on him. If we go into next year with poor QB play, and no excuse (rookie QB), Schoen might not (shouldn't) survive the season. The idea that Schoen is going to be here for a long time, without making smart moves (DJ, Neal, letting both starting OGs walk, Slayton, Campbell, etc.), is silly. He needs to reset the clock with a rookie QB. Nobody should expect greatness from a rookie, so it buys him 2 years, minimum. i agree somewhat........
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Post by myronguyton29 on Nov 10, 2023 7:23:20 GMT -5
I honestly wonder, and think it’s a fair question to ask, if Schoen feels more pressure to draft a QB than trade back and here’s why. If he drafts a new QB, it will buy him at least 2 more years no matter how bad they do IMO. It’s probably safe to assume they won’t be making the playoffs the rookies first year and maybe start making a playoff push in 2025. On the other hand, if he trades back and adds a few more pieces then we probably still don’t make the playoffs with whatever mish mash of QB’s we have playing next year. So then we draft a rookie QB in 2025, he has a typical rookie season and then that’s 2 years of losing. That means the earliest we can make a playoff push would be 2026. I don’t know if Mara would have the patience for that, BUT if Schien drafts a QB and he shows he’s an obvious franchise QB within the first two years, I think Mara would be a little more tolerant. Just a thought. To sum it up, drafting a rookie QB buys him more time IMO. he goes QB. I’m going with my QB and not somebody else’s at this point. Win or lose, I played to win by going QB. I’m not playing not to lose by playing a hope card with a guy with neck and knee issues who is questionable at reading defenses. i somewhat agree here too lol rather that be a rookie or TT or whomever until you get your guy; if you're still here so then there's that.......
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Post by myronguyton29 on Nov 10, 2023 7:23:58 GMT -5
I’m not arguing for marvin harrison jr, but the positional value of WRs is much much greater than a RB and makes it a reasonable position to draft early. For reference, the AAV of the #2 pick this year is 9m/yr, that would be the 31st highest paid WR in the league on an AAV basis. On the other hand, it would be the 10th highest paid RB. Additionally, the differential between the highest paid WR and the #2 pick is 22mill/yr, whereas for runningbacks it is 7mill/yr. No question, WR's are commonly drafted top 10. Harrison is ranked right behind the two QB's, which could align with where we end up. The Giants QB most likely is taken in the second round, or late first in a trade up. definitely can see this.............
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Post by myronguyton29 on Nov 10, 2023 7:24:50 GMT -5
I'd trade back if we could get a deal like what the Rams gave up in 2016.
2- First round picks 2- Second round picks 2- Third round picks
This year we would have a first, three seconds, two thirds. Plus two firsts, two seconds, two thirds next year. Add Brock Bowers (or Dallas Turner or Jer'zhan Newton), Taliese Fuaga RT and move Neal to RG.
After 2024 if Jones hasn't recovered or just isn't the guy at least we will have lots of picks and pieces in place to make a move for a QB if needed.
that definitely sounds good............
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Post by Fletch842 on Nov 10, 2023 7:55:43 GMT -5
he goes QB. I’m going with my QB and not somebody else’s at this point. Win or lose, I played to win by going QB. I’m not playing not to lose by playing a hope card with a guy with neck and knee issues who is questionable at reading defenses. i somewhat agree here too lol rather that be a rookie or TT or whomever until you get your guy; if you're still here so then there's that....... TT's a good qb when he plays, but seems to be simply to fragile to count on.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Nov 10, 2023 9:55:50 GMT -5
i somewhat agree here too lol rather that be a rookie or TT or whomever until you get your guy; if you're still here so then there's that....... TT's a good qb when he plays, but seems to be simply to fragile to count on. people say he's fragile and has been hurt a lot. I'd like to see some data on that as I've really only seen him since he's been here. I did remember him playing for Buffalo mostly out of the other teams and seeing some of the games he played in and never knew him to be fragile.
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 10, 2023 11:45:55 GMT -5
If the Giants get the first pick.. There will not be enough graveyards to bury these mother ******* We withstood the seventies.. Took it on the chin with Ray Handley.. And witnessed the Boston massacre with Dave Gettleman. And yet through all that rubble.. We never had the first overall pick. To be that pathetic with the likes of the hibernating Bears, the flying south Cardinals, and the soon to be extinct Panthers.. No one with a pulse is safe..
Trading back for the sake of doing it is why fans make those decisions in the nosebleeds. Since we aren’t selling weight.. Quantity is not better than quality. If a quarterback is there, you take him. The most important position in sports is dead here.. and before we throw dirt on it.. we must aggressively and actively pursue all options at quarterback.
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Post by krappdetector on Nov 10, 2023 12:44:38 GMT -5
I don’t love any QB in this draft…I don’t think the 1st round QBs would be all that different from the 3rd round QBs. With that said…I wouldn’t mind the Giants trading out of a top 3 pick. Get another 1st and 2nd. We need players. Another mediocre QB won’t help. We already have one. And he’s under contact. Interesting idea.. but I doubt S&D are gonna ride their careers (and the team) into the ground with DJ at the helm. Because that's what's likely to happen. Isn't it more likely they reset the QB clock and make a fresh start going forward than risk another intolerable sĥitshow with the Ghost of Gettleman at QB? It's been said by many folks smarter than me that by the time a team is 'built good enough to draft a top QB' it's not picking where one is readily available! P.S. I think Vinnie nails it "... if KC passed on Mahomes because their roster wasn’t up to snuff yet, they probably wouldn’t have a single ring yet."
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miss86
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Post by miss86 on Nov 10, 2023 13:17:26 GMT -5
If a QB is there, we have the pick, and JS loves him. You take him. We should not be over thinking this. We need a QB, DJ ain't it.
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Post by McCherry on Nov 10, 2023 13:59:43 GMT -5
If a QB is there, we have the pick, and JS loves him. You take him. We should not be over thinking this. We need a QB, DJ ain't it. I don't think there's a chance we pass up Williams or Maye if we end up picking in the top 2. I'd honestly prefer if we won a few games to end up in top 5 with a chance to draft Harrison Jr. or Turner. I also like the other QB's. Having two second round picks give us flexibility to take one on day two or trade up into the back end of the first round.
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Post by Analyst on Nov 10, 2023 14:28:06 GMT -5
If a QB is there, we have the pick, and JS loves him. You take him. We should not be over thinking this. We need a QB, DJ ain't it. I don't think there's a chance we pass up Williams or Maye if we end up picking in the top 2. I'd honestly prefer if we won a few games to end up in top 5 with a chance to draft Harrison Jr. or Turner. I also like the other QB's. Having two second round picks give us flexibility to take one on day two or trade up into the back end of the first round. I cant believe Im saying this but Im starting to lean Maye over Williams. Ive been watching a bunch of them recently. Caleb seems too emotional a kid. NY might eat him up. Crying after games he lost, talking about cuddling with his dog.... I think he shows some good qualities for todays NFL game, but overall, Maye has been maturing quite a bit more. Reminds me kind of like a Justin Herbert / Trevor Lawrence type. Caleb reminds me of a more mobile Tony Romo-ish, with a side of Johnny Manziel. His personality is really hurting my thoughts on him. They say he is 6'1". I bet he barely is 6' if that. Now that we know where we are at QB for 2024, my QB study will be very detailed going forward. Williams, Maye, Penix, McCarthy, Ewers, Sanders, Nix, Daniels. Even some Duke QB named Leonard lol Looks just like DJ.
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Post by McCherry on Nov 10, 2023 14:29:47 GMT -5
TT's a good qb when he plays, but seems to be simply to fragile to count on. people say he's fragile and has been hurt a lot. I'd like to see some data on that as I've really only seen him since he's been here. I did remember him playing for Buffalo mostly out of the other teams and seeing some of the games he played in and never knew him to be fragile. Oct 11, 2015 - Knee MCL Sprain Grade 2 Taylor sprained his MCL against the Titans and missed 2 games. Jan 7, 2018 - Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Taylor was injured near the end of Buffalo's Wild Card loss to Jacksonville. Nov 27, 2016 - Inguinal Groin Tear Grade 3 Taylor played through the injury before undergoing surgery in January of 2017. Dec 3, 2017 - Knee Patella Sprain Taylor missed 1 game with a bruised patellar tendon in his left knee. Aug 26, 2017 - Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Taylor was concussed in Week 3 of the preseason. He received medical clearance the Tuesday before Week 1. Aug 23, 2018 - Hand Finger Dislocation Taylor dislocated his left pinkie in Cleveland's 3rd exhibition but returned to the game. Sep 20, 2018 - Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Taylor cleared the protocol in time for Week 4 but was held out because of a minor back injury. Sep 20, 2020 - Chest Lung Puncture Taylor suffered a punctured lung after pregame warmups in the Chargers' Week 2 contest against the Chiefs. He was sidelined for 6 games Nov 18, 2020 - Chest Rib Sprain/Pull Unspecified Taylor managed to suit up as Los Angeles' No. 2 quarterback Week 11 despite his lingering ribs injury Sep 19, 2021 - Thigh Hamstring Strain Grade 2 Taylor was forced out of Week 2's game against the Browns with a hamstring injury. He missed six games. Dec 5, 2021 - Hand Wrist Ligament Tear Taylor left Week 13 game with a left wrist injury. Oct 2, 2022 - Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Taylor came on in relief of Daniel Jones in Week 4. Oct 29, 2023 - Chest Rib Sprain/Pull Unspecified Taylor was taken to a local hospital after sustaining a rib injury in the second quarter of Week 8 vs. the Jets. He was later placed on IR.How's that?
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Post by jmike on Nov 10, 2023 14:29:55 GMT -5
If the Giants end up as the first pick of the draft, they can actually draft the player immediately, long before the draft event. Of course the NFL discourages this, but the rules allow it……..if the Giants are first and sure who they want, they should ignore the NFL’s wishes, draft their new QB and immediately start teaching him the playbook. Incidentally, if the Giants did do that, then the team picking second could pick, and on and on. The reason to do this in prior years is to get the player signed and under contract and ready to participate as soon as the draft is complete. With the new pay scale for draft picks this is not necessary and actually increases risk of him tearing a ligament stepping in a gopher hole before you have to make a decision on him. So, based on that I would say there is zero chance he will be signed before the draft. Then add in the NFL's desire to keep the draft spectacle, much of it focused on the top of the draft, the league will discourage them from doing this even if they wanted to. This further reduces the chance of that happening. Now, it might still happen, but I'd say the Giants have a better chance of winning the Super Bowl this year than signing their pick before the draft.
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Post by jmike on Nov 10, 2023 14:31:10 GMT -5
The NFL doesn't want to ruin the event of the NFL Draft. The first 2 days they get a lot of mileage from. Fans love it, the 1st rd is talked about for months previous. The Last thing they want is to do is mess with the Golden Goose. The Giants could sign him at the beginning of the new fiscal year if they're allowed but all they would gain is a few weeks. The draft is the end of March I believe. I believe the rookies get a week or so by themselves before any players come in. Then there is three 3 day practices allowed before pre season starts. The players union insists on down time for all players. Only playing time speeds up the learning process from what I understand. The draft is the end of April, they would gain at least a month and a half….who cares about the NFL’s little TV event. The NFL teams care, they are for profit businesses.
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Post by DJones19 on Nov 10, 2023 14:31:31 GMT -5
A couple days ago the Bears beat last year's generational QB that was drafted #1 overall with a undrafted rookie QB, 0 star recruit from a Division 2 school. Carolina traded up to get "their guy" at QB and got their coach...but that hasn't moved the needle in the right direction...it's turned them from a bad team into the worst team in the league. ...the Bears got their draft pick and DJ Moore and a few draft picks in return.
Carolina should be picking #1 overall, but they gave that pick to the Bears.
Looks like a win, win for the Bears...masterfully played. Might have been the move that turned their franchise around.
Got to be careful with what you do early in the draft. Don't reach!
...and even I can admit you can make that same argument for Danny Dimes, they drafted him when the team wasn't in good position to draft a QB with a depleted roster with a bloated contract at QB. It's the same way for the Giants going into the draft this year....little has changed.
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