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Post by inconvenientruth on Nov 10, 2023 14:31:45 GMT -5
I would argue that from an intangible standpoint, Jones is the same as he was at Duke as he is today. Which is very poor. He doesn't sense pressure, doesn't throw with anticipation, doesn't look off receivers, and is a very slow processor. Williams fumble issues are entirely based on him holding the ball too long, not because of a slow processor, but because he's trying to make a play downfield and playing out of structure when he doenst need to. He also forces passes into coverage, downfield, as he erroneously thinks he can put the ball anywhere downfield, i mean, he has plenty of tape showing he can, but doesn't make it a good decision. Similar to Josh Allen in this regard. Context is important. Using Mike's scale DJ is in the negatives. from what I've seen of Williams I would not touch it. I'm curious to see though how he'll work out in the NFL Everyone has a right to their opinion. However, I would throw caution to hot takes, look for substance/context to marry opinion.
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Post by Analyst on Nov 10, 2023 14:39:35 GMT -5
A couple days ago the Bears beat last year's generational QB that was drafted #1 overall with a undrafted rookie QB, 0 star recruit from a Division 2 school. Carolina traded up to get "their guy" at QB and got their coach...but that hasn't moved the needle in the right direction...it's turned them from a bad team into the worst team in the league. ...the Bears got their draft pick and DJ Moore and a few draft picks in return. Carolina should be picking #1 overall, but they gave that pick to the Bears. Looks like a win, win for the Bears...masterfully played. Might have been the move that turned their franchise around. Got to be careful with what you do early in the draft. Don't reach! ...and even I can admit you can make that same argument for Danny Dimes, they drafted him when the team wasn't in good position to draft a QB with a depleted roster with a bloated contract at QB. It's the same way for the Giants going into the draft this year....little has changed. That was last night bro. I really wasnt fond of last years QB class. If I had to choose one between Young and Stroud it would have bene Young though. Might have been wrong there. Didnt like Levis or Richardson long term either. Right now, Levis and Stroud look the best. However, I liked Hendon Hooker as a mid round pick.
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Post by jmike on Nov 10, 2023 14:47:54 GMT -5
If a QB is there, we have the pick, and JS loves him. You take him. We should not be over thinking this. We need a QB, DJ ain't it. The only reason to trade out would be if the Giants don't like a QB in this draft. Don't overthink it is perfectly put by you.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Nov 10, 2023 14:50:58 GMT -5
from what I've seen of Williams I would not touch it. I'm curious to see though how he'll work out in the NFL Everyone has a right to their opinion. However, I would throw caution to hot takes, look for substance/context to marry opinion. from what I've actually seen...........
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Post by myronguyton29 on Nov 10, 2023 14:51:30 GMT -5
people say he's fragile and has been hurt a lot. I'd like to see some data on that as I've really only seen him since he's been here. I did remember him playing for Buffalo mostly out of the other teams and seeing some of the games he played in and never knew him to be fragile. Oct 11, 2015 - Knee MCL Sprain Grade 2 Taylor sprained his MCL against the Titans and missed 2 games. Jan 7, 2018 - Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Taylor was injured near the end of Buffalo's Wild Card loss to Jacksonville. Nov 27, 2016 - Inguinal Groin Tear Grade 3 Taylor played through the injury before undergoing surgery in January of 2017. Dec 3, 2017 - Knee Patella Sprain Taylor missed 1 game with a bruised patellar tendon in his left knee. Aug 26, 2017 - Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Taylor was concussed in Week 3 of the preseason. He received medical clearance the Tuesday before Week 1. Aug 23, 2018 - Hand Finger Dislocation Taylor dislocated his left pinkie in Cleveland's 3rd exhibition but returned to the game. Sep 20, 2018 - Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Taylor cleared the protocol in time for Week 4 but was held out because of a minor back injury. Sep 20, 2020 - Chest Lung Puncture Taylor suffered a punctured lung after pregame warmups in the Chargers' Week 2 contest against the Chiefs. He was sidelined for 6 games Nov 18, 2020 - Chest Rib Sprain/Pull Unspecified Taylor managed to suit up as Los Angeles' No. 2 quarterback Week 11 despite his lingering ribs injury Sep 19, 2021 - Thigh Hamstring Strain Grade 2 Taylor was forced out of Week 2's game against the Browns with a hamstring injury. He missed six games. Dec 5, 2021 - Hand Wrist Ligament Tear Taylor left Week 13 game with a left wrist injury. Oct 2, 2022 - Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Taylor came on in relief of Daniel Jones in Week 4. Oct 29, 2023 - Chest Rib Sprain/Pull Unspecified Taylor was taken to a local hospital after sustaining a rib injury in the second quarter of Week 8 vs. the Jets. He was later placed on IR.How's that? yeah kinda
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 10, 2023 18:25:32 GMT -5
Too bad Penix has an injury history that scares the crap out of me. If he had a clean bill of health and no past issues, dude would be the top QB in 2024. The way he reads defenses and uses his eyes to fake out the secondary is top notch. Dude reminds me of Justin Herbert.... except he's a lefty
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Post by bluebuddha on Nov 10, 2023 20:41:07 GMT -5
Too bad Penix has an injury history that scares the crap out of me. If he had a clean bill of health and no past issues, dude would be the top QB in 2024. The way he reads defenses and uses his eyes to fake out the secondary is top notch. Dude reminds me of Justin Herbert.... except he's a lefty I have him between Matt Ryan and Herbert as floor ceiling. I got Williams between Jameis Winston and Aaron Rodgers.
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Post by babybulls on Nov 10, 2023 21:26:59 GMT -5
Too bad Penix has an injury history that scares the crap out of me. If he had a clean bill of health and no past issues, dude would be the top QB in 2024. The way he reads defenses and uses his eyes to fake out the secondary is top notch. Dude reminds me of Justin Herbert.... except he's a lefty I have him between Matt Ryan and Herbert as floor ceiling. I got Williams between Jameis Winston and Aaron Rodgers. That’s one hell of a window, it’s like when you call the cable company and they tell you they’ll be there between 8:00 AM and 6:00 PM. 😵💫
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Post by lt56 on Nov 10, 2023 21:30:46 GMT -5
Long way to go before the draft and a lot of games left who TF even knows how high we will be drafting officially yet
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Post by bluebuddha on Nov 10, 2023 23:44:38 GMT -5
I have him between Matt Ryan and Herbert as floor ceiling. I got Williams between Jameis Winston and Aaron Rodgers. That’s one hell of a window, it’s like when you call the cable company and they tell you they’ll be there between 8:00 AM and 6:00 PM. 😵💫 Well I'm not a scout and don't have access to other info. It the best I can do from what I have seen. Atleast it wasn't like my floor is JaMarcus Russel and ceiling is Tom Brady... now that a chasm. What are your ceilings and floors based on what you have seen so far for Williams and Penix?
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 11, 2023 8:35:02 GMT -5
Too bad Penix has an injury history that scares the crap out of me. If he had a clean bill of health and no past issues, dude would be the top QB in 2024. The way he reads defenses and uses his eyes to fake out the secondary is top notch. Dude reminds me of Justin Herbert.... except he's a lefty I have him between Matt Ryan and Herbert as floor ceiling. I got Williams between Jameis Winston and Aaron Rodgers. I'm JUST starting to get into these possible QBs and I see their ceilings as Caleb Williams: Pat Mahomes Drake Maye: Josh Allen/ Ben Roethlisberger Mike Penix: Justin Herbert
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 11, 2023 8:36:39 GMT -5
Long way to go before the draft and a lot of games left who TF even knows how high we will be drafting officially yet Sadly it looks like we are a lock to draft top 5.... Our QB is "Jackie jr" DeVito for Christ's sake
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Post by bluebuddha on Nov 11, 2023 11:01:41 GMT -5
I have him between Matt Ryan and Herbert as floor ceiling. I got Williams between Jameis Winston and Aaron Rodgers. I'm JUST starting to get into these possible QBs and I see their ceilings as Caleb Williams: Pat Mahomes Drake Maye: Josh Allen/ Ben Roethlisberger Mike Penix: Justin Herbert Haven't watched a lot of Drake Maye. I said ARod for Williams because he has the arm talent but has that annoying cockiness that tend to come through. Mahommes' ego is more chill. His floor is Jameis again the arm talent is there but can he overcome his mistakes and take what is given to him or continue to force throw into places where he shouldn't in the NFL. This was Jameis downfall just of learning from his mistakes.His ego got the better of him. Penix my biggest worry watching him the last two years is his pocket is relatively clean and his guys get seperation plus Dillon is a very good back. I haven't seen him get out of trouble much and make these off schedule throws like Caleb. If he can play with noise around his feet I definitely see Herbert. His arm strength is already better than DJ and his field vision is superb. If he can't handle a noisy pocket and can't make those off platform throws I can see him flailing under pressure in critical games like Ryan. He is not much of a runner bit I think he has that sneaky athleticism like Herbert.
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Post by Rangers13 on Nov 11, 2023 11:06:29 GMT -5
I'm JUST starting to get into these possible QBs and I see their ceilings as Caleb Williams: Pat Mahomes Drake Maye: Josh Allen/ Ben Roethlisberger Mike Penix: Justin Herbert haven't watched a lot of Drake Maye. I said ARod for Williams because he has the arm talent but has that annoying cockiness that tend to come through. Mahommes ego is more chill. His floor is Jameis again the arm talent is there but can he overcome his mistakes and take what is given to him or continue to force throw into places where he shouldn't in the NFL. This was Jameis downfall just of learning from his mistakes his ego got the better of him. hmmm, I’m concerned his personality is similar to Cam Newton. Kinda loud, defensive a bit rebellious. The crying, wants to go to a winner . . . . has a lot to say. I might be wrong. 🤷♂️
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Post by bluebuddha on Nov 11, 2023 11:38:36 GMT -5
haven't watched a lot of Drake Maye. I said ARod for Williams because he has the arm talent but has that annoying cockiness that tend to come through. Mahommes ego is more chill. His floor is Jameis again the arm talent is there but can he overcome his mistakes and take what is given to him or continue to force throw into places where he shouldn't in the NFL. This was Jameis downfall just of learning from his mistakes his ego got the better of him. hmmm, I’m concerned his personality is similar to Cam Newton. Kinda loud, defensive a bit rebellious. The crying, wants to go to a winner . . . . has a lot to say. I might be wrong. 🤷♂️ I can see that but much much better and further along as a QB. Cam Newton still ended up in the Superbowl. Ithink was even MVP. So diva qualities are annoying but many divas in the NFL succeed. Talent and work ethic trumps all that. I see both with Caleb. I think there was a post about how Caleb schedules out his day and what he eats. That is very good to me atleast considering he is still in college. Shows dedication to improve.
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 11, 2023 12:09:00 GMT -5
I'm JUST starting to get into these possible QBs and I see their ceilings as Caleb Williams: Pat Mahomes Drake Maye: Josh Allen/ Ben Roethlisberger Mike Penix: Justin Herbert Haven't watched a lot of Drake Maye. I said ARod for Williams because he has the arm talent but has that annoying cockiness that tend to come through. Mahommes' ego is more chill. His floor is Jameis again the arm talent is there but can he overcome his mistakes and take what is given to him or continue to force throw into places where he shouldn't in the NFL. This was Jameis downfall just of learning from his mistakes.His ego got the better of him. Penix my biggest worry watching him the last two years is his pocket is relatively clean and his guys get seperation plus Dillon is a very good back. I haven't seen him get out of trouble much and make these off schedule throws like Caleb. If he can play with noise around his feet I definitely see Herbert. His arm strength is already better than DJ and his field vision is superb. If he can't handle a noisy pocket and can't make those off platform throws I can see him flailing under pressure in critical games like Ryan. He is not much of a runner bit I think he has that sneaky athleticism like Herbert. I guess I haven't been privy to the "cockiness" with Williams Penix def has some sneaky athlectism, he's not going to break out qb designed runs, but he can scramble to extend plays. Penix has arguably the best arm of the class, he makes exceptional throws in tight spaces like no other. Like me and just about everyone else has said, if it wasn't for his injury history he could go #1
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 11, 2023 12:11:15 GMT -5
haven't watched a lot of Drake Maye. I said ARod for Williams because he has the arm talent but has that annoying cockiness that tend to come through. Mahommes ego is more chill. His floor is Jameis again the arm talent is there but can he overcome his mistakes and take what is given to him or continue to force throw into places where he shouldn't in the NFL. This was Jameis downfall just of learning from his mistakes his ego got the better of him. hmmm, I’m concerned his personality is similar to Cam Newton. Kinda loud, defensive a bit rebellious. The crying, wants to go to a winner . . . . has a lot to say. I might be wrong. 🤷♂️ What's wrong with Cams personality?? He had a personality and wasn't afraid to speak his mind... snazzy dresser as well Oh yea, he was also a pretty frigging good QB
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Post by SG88 on Nov 11, 2023 12:25:58 GMT -5
hmmm, I’m concerned his personality is similar to Cam Newton. Kinda loud, defensive a bit rebellious. The crying, wants to go to a winner . . . . has a lot to say. I might be wrong. 🤷♂️ What's wrong with Cams personality?? He had a personality and wasn't afraid to speak his mind... snazzy dresser as well Oh yea, he was also a pretty frigging good QB Fans want players to be honest and outspoken until they're honest and outspoken. Maybe that's it? One thing I will say is that this fan base, for some weird reason, has issues with those types of players who aren't afraid to speak their minds, regardless of how good they are.
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 11, 2023 13:07:50 GMT -5
What's wrong with Cams personality?? He had a personality and wasn't afraid to speak his mind... snazzy dresser as well Oh yea, he was also a pretty frigging good QB Fans want players to be honest and outspoken until they're honest and outspoken. Maybe that's it? One thing I will say is that this fan base, for some weird reason, has issues with those types of players who aren't afraid to speak their minds, regardless of how good they are. The old guard is just that, old. Get with the program, and the times, if we don't, nobody will want to come play here. We aren't a destination players want to go to, we're an organization of old Boomers stuck in the past. Sad, but true
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Post by bluebuddha on Nov 11, 2023 13:45:11 GMT -5
Haven't watched a lot of Drake Maye. I said ARod for Williams because he has the arm talent but has that annoying cockiness that tend to come through. Mahommes' ego is more chill. His floor is Jameis again the arm talent is there but can he overcome his mistakes and take what is given to him or continue to force throw into places where he shouldn't in the NFL. This was Jameis downfall just of learning from his mistakes.His ego got the better of him. Penix my biggest worry watching him the last two years is his pocket is relatively clean and his guys get seperation plus Dillon is a very good back. I haven't seen him get out of trouble much and make these off schedule throws like Caleb. If he can play with noise around his feet I definitely see Herbert. His arm strength is already better than DJ and his field vision is superb. If he can't handle a noisy pocket and can't make those off platform throws I can see him flailing under pressure in critical games like Ryan. He is not much of a runner bit I think he has that sneaky athleticism like Herbert. I guess I haven't been privy to the "cockiness" with Williams Penix def has some sneaky athlectism, he's not going to break out qb designed runs, but he can scramble to extend plays. Penix has arguably the best arm of the class, he makes exceptional throws in tight spaces like no other. Like me and just about everyone else has said, if it wasn't for his injury history he could go #1 I kind of see where you are coming from. The cockiness to me is running around and hoping to make a big play. He thinks his arm can overcome every situation. Winston was like this in college. He just needs to learn that throwing it away or a 3 yd run is sometimes a better play. He needs to learn situational awareness and when to prolong the play and when not to. I really like Penix his theow are so nice but for Giants I am leaning toward Caleb as he has played and produced with less talent around him but honestly I have no idea which one of these guys are going to succeed.
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 11, 2023 13:59:00 GMT -5
I guess I haven't been privy to the "cockiness" with Williams Penix def has some sneaky athlectism, he's not going to break out qb designed runs, but he can scramble to extend plays. Penix has arguably the best arm of the class, he makes exceptional throws in tight spaces like no other. Like me and just about everyone else has said, if it wasn't for his injury history he could go #1 I kind of see where you are coming from. The cockiness to me is running around and hoping to make a big play. He thinks his arm can overcome every situation. Winston was like this in college. He just needs to learn that throwing it away or a 3 yd run is sometimes a better play. He needs to learn situational awareness and when to prolong the play and when not to. I really like Penix his theow are so nice but for Giants I am leaning toward Caleb as he has played and produced with less talent around him but honestly I have no idea which one of these guys are going to succeed. See and I don't consider that cockiness, I consider that not being the most cerebral QB. I thought maybe he said something off putting, maybe came off like a douche in an interview or something that would be attributed to cockiness. Learning when to throw it away and when to extend the play is a trait some pro qbs still don't have. You make a good point about Penix, his team is MUCH more talented than USC, I'll give ya that. ...Still don't have a favorite qb in the draft and at this point would be happy with CW, Maye, or Penix
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Post by Rangers13 on Nov 11, 2023 14:22:09 GMT -5
hmmm, I’m concerned his personality is similar to Cam Newton. Kinda loud, defensive a bit rebellious. The crying, wants to go to a winner . . . . has a lot to say. I might be wrong. 🤷♂️ What's wrong with Cams personality?? He had a personality and wasn't afraid to speak his mind... snazzy dresser as well Oh yea, he was also a pretty frigging good QB what could go in New York with this media? Being you didn't mention them is pretty funny. For real?
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 11, 2023 16:20:33 GMT -5
What's wrong with Cams personality?? He had a personality and wasn't afraid to speak his mind... snazzy dresser as well Oh yea, he was also a pretty frigging good QB what could go in New York with this media? Being you didn't mention them is pretty funny. For real? Uhhh what?
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Post by Rangers13 on Nov 11, 2023 18:22:11 GMT -5
what could go in New York with this media? Being you didn't mention them is pretty funny. For real? Uhhh what? Never heard of the media in Ny causing issues. You must be young or lost.
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 11, 2023 19:38:02 GMT -5
Never heard of the media in Ny causing issues. You must be young or lost. Are you saying you haven't heard of the NY media causing issues, or was that supposed to be a question? I don't understand choppy sentences missing crucial elements and condescending answers
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Post by Rangers13 on Nov 11, 2023 19:46:10 GMT -5
Never heard of the media in Ny causing issues. You must be young or lost. Are you saying you haven't heard of the NY media causing issues, or was that supposed to be a question? I don't understand choppy sentences missing crucial elements and condescending answers pretty self explanatory
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Post by lt56 on Nov 11, 2023 19:47:39 GMT -5
the best and most Consistent QB in College Football, also plays well in big games
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 11, 2023 20:11:42 GMT -5
Are you saying you haven't heard of the NY media causing issues, or was that supposed to be a question? I don't understand choppy sentences missing crucial elements and condescending answers pretty self explanatory Well you wrote it as a statement, so that's what I will take it as.
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 11, 2023 20:13:09 GMT -5
the best and most Consistent QB in College Football, also plays well in big games Penix is an outstanding QB, with a frightening injury history. Some exceptional players on that Huskies roster
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Post by bluebuddha on Nov 13, 2023 17:36:27 GMT -5
I kind of see where you are coming from. The cockiness to me is running around and hoping to make a big play. He thinks his arm can overcome every situation. Winston was like this in college. He just needs to learn that throwing it away or a 3 yd run is sometimes a better play. He needs to learn situational awareness and when to prolong the play and when not to. I really like Penix his theow are so nice but for Giants I am leaning toward Caleb as he has played and produced with less talent around him but honestly I have no idea which one of these guys are going to succeed. See and I don't consider that cockiness, I consider that not being the most cerebral QB. I thought maybe he said something off putting, maybe came off like a douche in an interview or something that would be attributed to cockiness. Learning when to throw it away and when to extend the play is a trait some pro qbs still don't have. You make a good point about Penix, his team is MUCH more talented than USC, I'll give ya that. ...Still don't have a favorite qb in the draft and at this point would be happy with CW, Maye, or Penix Same although I wouldn't be mad with the Combination of Marvin Harrison Jr and Bo Nix/ Jayden Daniels ( if he comes out). Both are guys that can compensate for a bad oline and create thier own offense. It might provide some cheap production on offense while the oline is worked on.
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