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Post by moecoastie on Mar 24, 2024 22:36:11 GMT -5
ah, good ole days when NYG WRs could catch with their hands. I miss those days. Small catch radius makes everyone look bad
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Post by Martin on Mar 24, 2024 22:39:20 GMT -5
Are you agreeing with the OP cause this seems like you're agreeing but I'm not sure. Nicks had about 1200 yards and 7 TDs that year but was our #2 because that year we had Victor Cruz as well and he put up 1500 yards and 9 TDs. Yeah we had a great WR that year lol. we didn’t need to go #6 overall to get a good WR. Got Nicks late in 1st Round, Plax in Free Agency, Cruz was an FA and I think Manningham was Round 3. Even OBJ went later. I don’t think the Giants need a WR at #6 overall. The situation over the last bunch of years was no balance on offense and I don't mean the play calling. It was a terrible Oline, mediocre receivers at best along with mediocre QB play and play calling that was handcuffed. One thing I noticed was when Taylor and DeVito played the offense was working the ball down the field especially east and west of the hash. 15 to 20 yds This wasn't happening with Jones . I would love a QB at #6 IF they love the player. If that's not the case then go WR. The idea that a WR will change this team without a franchise QB makes no sense to me in this new NFL age. I see young players pop up out of nowhere and show tremendous poise commanding the team. The Giants need a QB and the opportunity is staring them in the face IF they really love a player. One poster and I think it was Canadian said no matter who they pick it has to be a slam dunk. The Giants seem to have the Oline under control based on the FA's. This means that they can run and pass block better so a young QB won't get sacked and damaged. My vote is QB first if the situation is there but giving up heavy draft picks for a team in a rebuilding stage is not great at all.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 24, 2024 22:48:31 GMT -5
we didn’t need to go #6 overall to get a good WR. Got Nicks late in 1st Round, Plax in Free Agency, Cruz was an FA and I think Manningham was Round 3. Even OBJ went later. I don’t think the Giants need a WR at #6 overall. The situation over the last bunch of years was no balance on offense and I don't mean the play calling. It was a terrible Oline, mediocre receivers at best along with mediocre QB play and play calling that was handcuffed. One thing I noticed was when Taylor and DeVito played the offense was working the ball down the field especially east and west of the hash. 15 to 20 yds This wasn't happening with Jones . I would love a QB at #6 IF they love the player. If that's not the case then go WR. The idea that a WR will change this team without a franchise QB makes no sense to me in this new NFL age. I see young players pop up out of nowhere and show tremendous poise commanding the team. The Giants need a QB and the opportunity is staring them in the face IF they really love a player. One poster and I think it was Canadian said no matter who they pick it has to be a slam dunk. The Giants seem to have the Oline under control based on the FA's. This means that they can run and pass block better so a young QB won't get sacked and damaged. My vote is QB first if the situation is there but giving up heavy draft picks for a team in a rebuilding stage is not great at all. I say QB or move back. I would rather not sit at #6 for anybody besides a QB.
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Post by Martin on Mar 24, 2024 23:07:24 GMT -5
The situation over the last bunch of years was no balance on offense and I don't mean the play calling. It was a terrible Oline, mediocre receivers at best along with mediocre QB play and play calling that was handcuffed. One thing I noticed was when Taylor and DeVito played the offense was working the ball down the field especially east and west of the hash. 15 to 20 yds This wasn't happening with Jones . I would love a QB at #6 IF they love the player. If that's not the case then go WR. The idea that a WR will change this team without a franchise QB makes no sense to me in this new NFL age. I see young players pop up out of nowhere and show tremendous poise commanding the team. The Giants need a QB and the opportunity is staring them in the face IF they really love a player. One poster and I think it was Canadian said no matter who they pick it has to be a slam dunk. The Giants seem to have the Oline under control based on the FA's. This means that they can run and pass block better so a young QB won't get sacked and damaged. My vote is QB first if the situation is there but giving up heavy draft picks for a team in a rebuilding stage is not great at all. I say QB or move back. I would rather not sit at #6 for anybody besides a QB. Having more picks is certainly another approach and worthy of consideration. Schoen better get this right in either case.
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Post by giantbob71 on Mar 24, 2024 23:25:09 GMT -5
If a great wide out makes a QB better...the Giants need to take 3-4 of them.
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Post by jaymas on Mar 24, 2024 23:29:06 GMT -5
2010 and 2011 Nicks is an elite split end even if the numbers were just good
Let's not forget his absolute dominance in the 2011 playoffs too.
28 for 444 and 4 TDs
Injuries cutting his and Cruz's careers short will always be one of the biggest bummers.
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Post by Martin on Mar 24, 2024 23:30:22 GMT -5
If a great wide out makes a QB better...the Giants need to take 3-4 of them. Plus a TE. Another position of need.
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Post by giantbob71 on Mar 24, 2024 23:33:32 GMT -5
If a great wide out makes a QB better...the Giants need to take 3-4 of them. Plus a TE. Another position of need. The most expensive TE, in the NFL, isn't enough?
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 25, 2024 6:52:07 GMT -5
The situation over the last bunch of years was no balance on offense and I don't mean the play calling. It was a terrible Oline, mediocre receivers at best along with mediocre QB play and play calling that was handcuffed. One thing I noticed was when Taylor and DeVito played the offense was working the ball down the field especially east and west of the hash. 15 to 20 yds This wasn't happening with Jones . I would love a QB at #6 IF they love the player. If that's not the case then go WR. The idea that a WR will change this team without a franchise QB makes no sense to me in this new NFL age. I see young players pop up out of nowhere and show tremendous poise commanding the team. The Giants need a QB and the opportunity is staring them in the face IF they really love a player. One poster and I think it was Canadian said no matter who they pick it has to be a slam dunk. The Giants seem to have the Oline under control based on the FA's. This means that they can run and pass block better so a young QB won't get sacked and damaged. My vote is QB first if the situation is there but giving up heavy draft picks for a team in a rebuilding stage is not great at all. I say QB or move back. I would rather not sit at #6 for anybody besides a QB. I wouldn't be against trading back, but getting a receiver like Nabers or Odunze is very tempting. I also think that if one of Maye, Daniels or McCarthy is there at 6 we'll take him without batting an eye. As you know from my previous posts, I'm against trading up for any of them assuming it will include another 1st or 2nd round pick.
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Post by Kruunch on Mar 25, 2024 6:57:52 GMT -5
2010 and 2011 Nicks is an elite split end even if the numbers were just good Let's not forget his absolute dominance in the 2011 playoffs too. 28 for 444 and 4 TDs Injuries cutting his and Cruz's careers short will always be one of the biggest bummers. Hakeem the dream gave defensive backs nightmares.. Baseball mitt for hands.. with the toughness of a safety.. That game against Atlanta in the ‘11 playoffs where he turned a four yard hitch to a seventy two yard sprint to the endzone.. Set the tone of the game as the stadium erupted.. The three headed monster of Nicks, Cruz, and Manningham carried us that season when our running game stalled.
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 25, 2024 7:32:59 GMT -5
Some quarterbacks get lucky every WR works out for them even undrafted ones like Victor Cruz. DJ is just unlucky so far hopefully this is the year a WR can elevate him like all those WRs that propped up Eli. I'd even go so far as that a lot of the QBs that turned out to be busts never got a fair shake, because they were set up to fail. The worst teams pick first. So unless the QB gets lucky and happens to get on a team that is already solid and was just plain bad for whatever reason. or everything sync'd up perfectly where all the young players started developing at the same time, he won't pan out. Just look what happened to Alex Smith. He finally got a fair shake, stopped getting hurt, stopped getting a new OC every year and he turned out to be pretty good. Brock Purdy would have never work out if he was the #1 overall pick. Mark Sanchez had no excuse though lol. Although even he looked good at times. Teams picking at the top of the draft should not draft QB is what your are saying right? Up to what pick is it bad for a team to go after a QB? I kind of agree with you but there are instances where rookies have turned a team around ( peyton manning, Matt Ryan) and instances where they need to be coddled a bit before they break out. Then theres the majority which are busts. They are humans so the develop a different rate just like the rest of us. Some just can't handle the pressure. Some just want thier first crack at being a millionaire. Where they go also matter. Some GMs and coaches know exactly what they want like Andy Reid with Mahomes even though they had Alex Smith or Hargaugh with Colin Kaepernick even though they had Alex Smith. Some teams just can't figure it out.
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Post by cdngfan on Mar 25, 2024 7:47:50 GMT -5
Some quarterbacks get lucky every WR works out for them even undrafted ones like Victor Cruz. DJ is just unlucky so far hopefully this is the year a WR can elevate him like all those WRs that propped up Eli. I'd even go so far as that a lot of the QBs that turned out to be busts never got a fair shake, because they were set up to fail. The worst teams pick first. So unless the QB gets lucky and happens to get on a team that is already solid and was just plain bad for whatever reason. or everything sync'd up perfectly where all the young players started developing at the same time, he won't pan out. Just look what happened to Alex Smith. He finally got a fair shake, stopped getting hurt, stopped getting a new OC every year and he turned out to be pretty good. Brock Purdy would have never work out if he was the #1 overall pick. Mark Sanchez had no excuse though lol. Although even he looked good at times. I think Jones would have turned out better getting drafted like Purdy did on a team that was effective across all areas of the offense plus stability at HC/OC. Just a theoretical discussion right now. He seems pretty shattered now, he just can’t process coverage fast enough. Your point is whether by mismanagement or by difficulty of the position the bust % of QBs in the 1st round is really high. Pure facts. . Which is why I keep repeating to friends that ask about our 6 pick, you take a player (with positional value) that you’re excited about. You don’t look at your needs and take the positional BPA available. It’s not an argument against taking a QB. It’s an argument against taking a QB because you need one. Even QBs taken 1st overall, the bust % is still ready low. No one is singing Getty’s praises for taking a QB when we needed one. No one cares or rewards you for picking a player in a position of need. They reward you for picking highly effective starters. So pick highly effective starters. And hopefully that aligns with needs.
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Post by idkaname on Mar 25, 2024 8:00:42 GMT -5
yet we won Super Bowls with Burress and Nicks 2 of the best WRs in Giants History...is your point elite WRs matter or don't ? I'm confused since you started with "yet" and the post was about WR making a difference.
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Post by idkaname on Mar 25, 2024 8:03:53 GMT -5
yet we won Super Bowls with Burress and Nicks Are you agreeing with the OP cause this seems like you're agreeing but I'm not sure. Nicks had about 1200 yards and 7 TDs that year but was our #2 because that year we had Victor Cruz as well and he put up 1500 yards and 9 TDs. Yeah we had a great WR that year lol. yeah that was a weird statement with the "yet"...it basically said nothing because of that...it's like he said "Burress and Nicks were great and we didn't win anything with them but we won super bowls while they played with us" lol
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 25, 2024 8:07:49 GMT -5
yet we won Super Bowls with Burress and Nicks 2 of the best WRs in Giants History...is your point elite WRs matter or don't ? I'm confused since you started with "yet" and the post was about WR making a difference. I’m confused why you never scroll up for the answers to your questions “we didn’t need to go #6 overall to get a good WR. Got Nicks late in 1st Round, Plax in Free Agency, Cruz was an FA and I think Manningham was Round 3. Even OBJ went later. I don’t think the Giants need a WR at #6 overall.”
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Post by idkaname on Mar 25, 2024 8:12:25 GMT -5
2 of the best WRs in Giants History...is your point elite WRs matter or don't ? I'm confused since you started with "yet" and the post was about WR making a difference. I’m confused why you never scroll up for the answers to your questions “we didn’t need to go #6 overall to get a good WR. Got Nicks late in 1st Round, Plax in Free Agency, Cruz was an FA and I think Manningham was Round 3. Even OBJ went later. I don’t think the Giants need a WR at #6 overall.” Ok that clears it up. Basically we should hope to get another UDFA like Cruz, thanks for your input !
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 25, 2024 8:24:50 GMT -5
I’m confused why you never scroll up for the answers to your questions “we didn’t need to go #6 overall to get a good WR. Got Nicks late in 1st Round, Plax in Free Agency, Cruz was an FA and I think Manningham was Round 3. Even OBJ went later. I don’t think the Giants need a WR at #6 overall.” Ok that clears it up. Basically we should hope to get another UDFA like Cruz, thanks for your input ! as usual you can’t follow, scroll, understand, comprehend . . . here 🕳️ fill in your head
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Post by idkaname on Mar 25, 2024 8:28:48 GMT -5
Ok that clears it up. Basically we should hope to get another UDFA like Cruz, thanks for your input ! as usual you can’t follow, scroll, understand, comprehend . . . here 🕳️ fill in your head me rn, thanks!
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Post by Nite on Mar 25, 2024 8:31:39 GMT -5
as usual you can’t follow, scroll, understand, comprehend . . . here 🕳️ fill in your head me rn, thanks! This is quite entertaining. Keep up the good work
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Post by Nite on Mar 25, 2024 8:34:05 GMT -5
It can if you have a good QB to throw him the ball.. If he can't see him or get him the ball or is afraid to throw in his direction well uh...hmmm
I also hear RBs taken early can also make a difference...
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 25, 2024 9:13:15 GMT -5
Are you agreeing with the OP cause this seems like you're agreeing but I'm not sure. Nicks had about 1200 yards and 7 TDs that year but was our #2 because that year we had Victor Cruz as well and he put up 1500 yards and 9 TDs. Yeah we had a great WR that year lol. we didn’t need to go #6 overall to get a good WR. Got Nicks late in 1st Round, Plax in Free Agency, Cruz was an FA and I think Manningham was Round 3. Even OBJ went later. I don’t think the Giants need a WR at #6 overall. Heck yeah, I agree with that. But then again we don't NEED to go any specific position at #6. I mean David Diehl was a 5th round pick. Strahan, Tuck and Osi were 2nd and 3rd round picks. Bottom line is every roster is different and there are good players found all over the draft.
However. We will only go WR if they want Jones still. So lets assume that's true (for sake of this discussion). Our clear #1 need is a WR1 and it's not even close. The top 3 WRs are absolute studs in this draft. We just lost 30% of our offense (Barkley) and need it replaced. It won't happen in free agency, like when we lost Tiki and replaced him with Plax. The HC/GM need to generate an offense and it's a risk hoping to land a later round stud WR. So no we don't NEED to go WR in round 1...but this year we absolutely should.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 25, 2024 9:18:47 GMT -5
The situation over the last bunch of years was no balance on offense and I don't mean the play calling. It was a terrible Oline, mediocre receivers at best along with mediocre QB play and play calling that was handcuffed. One thing I noticed was when Taylor and DeVito played the offense was working the ball down the field especially east and west of the hash. 15 to 20 yds This wasn't happening with Jones . I would love a QB at #6 IF they love the player. If that's not the case then go WR. The idea that a WR will change this team without a franchise QB makes no sense to me in this new NFL age. I see young players pop up out of nowhere and show tremendous poise commanding the team. The Giants need a QB and the opportunity is staring them in the face IF they really love a player. One poster and I think it was Canadian said no matter who they pick it has to be a slam dunk. The Giants seem to have the Oline under control based on the FA's. This means that they can run and pass block better so a young QB won't get sacked and damaged. My vote is QB first if the situation is there but giving up heavy draft picks for a team in a rebuilding stage is not great at all. I'm one of the biggest Jones fans there is and even I say they need to consider their options, including QB, at #6. If there is a QB there that they truly believe in then take him. I think they believe in Jones but are obviously worried about health. Well getting another QB you believe in is the smart play there. However I do not think that QB will actually be there for us, I'm not buying the JJ narrative.
With that said WR is the obvious move since it's our top need and probably the top rated players on the board.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 25, 2024 9:25:08 GMT -5
I say QB or move back. I would rather not sit at #6 for anybody besides a QB. I'd be all for moving back if the deal is the right one. Moving back just to do it is not a good move. Dropping back to #11 with the Vikings basically takes us out of competition for the top WRs which I would not want to do. Now if MHJ and Nabers are gone and they think the next 3 WRs are pretty equal to each other then by all means drop back. If they think Odunze is in the same ballpark as MHJ then you take that guy and never look back.
I have images of losing out on Devonta Smith at 10 and getting Kadarius Toney at 20 though and we know that didn't work out well lol. All depends on their board and how players are graded.
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Post by idkaname on Mar 25, 2024 9:32:16 GMT -5
we didn’t need to go #6 overall to get a good WR. Got Nicks late in 1st Round, Plax in Free Agency, Cruz was an FA and I think Manningham was Round 3. Even OBJ went later. I don’t think the Giants need a WR at #6 overall. Heck yeah, I agree with that. But then again we don't NEED to go any specific position at #6. I mean David Diehl was a 5th round pick. Strahan, Tuck and Osi were 2nd and 3rd round picks. Bottom line is every roster is different and there are good players found all over the draft.
However. We will only go WR if they want Jones still. So lets assume that's true (for sake of this discussion). Our clear #1 need is a WR1 and it's not even close. The top 3 WRs are absolute studs in this draft. We just lost 30% of our offense (Barkley) and need it replaced. It won't happen in free agency, like when we lost Tiki and replaced him with Plax. The HC/GM need to generate an offense and it's a risk hoping to land a later round stud WR. So no we don't NEED to go WR in round 1...but this year we absolutely should.
I don't think going WR at 6 really has anything to do with Jones staying or leaving tbh. We need weapons / talent regardless... Now to you and Rangers point about WRs being available later / FA etc...like you said same for any position...and that includes QBs as well...I understand the numbers aspect as well...there's obviously more WRs etc but that just makes it even harder to land a quality QB so it's gotta be a hit if we go QB at 6 or we're just becoming the jets and taking a random chance every couple of years hoping we hit n a QB (which btw most teams that do this, it happens because they keep ignoring weapons / other parts of the team giving the QB little chance to succeed anyway)
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 25, 2024 9:38:47 GMT -5
we didn’t need to go #6 overall to get a good WR. Got Nicks late in 1st Round, Plax in Free Agency, Cruz was an FA and I think Manningham was Round 3. Even OBJ went later. I don’t think the Giants need a WR at #6 overall. Heck yeah, I agree with that. But then again we don't NEED to go any specific position at #6. I mean David Diehl was a 5th round pick. Strahan, Tuck and Osi were 2nd and 3rd round picks. Bottom line is every roster is different and there are good players found all over the draft.
However. We will only go WR if they want Jones still. So let’s assume that's true (for sake of this discussion). Our clear #1 need is a WR1 and it's not even close. The top 3 WRs are absolute studs in this draft. We just lost 30% of our offense (Barkley) and need it replaced. It won't happen in free agency, like when we lost Tiki and replaced him with Plax. The HC/GM need to generate an offense and it's a risk hoping to land a later round stud WR. So no we don't NEED to go WR in round 1...but this year we absolutely should.
there are quite a few receivers in this draft. A Corley could me more productive on many teams than Nabers would be on the Giants. I’m sticking with QB at #6 or trade back.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 25, 2024 9:41:18 GMT -5
I say QB or move back. I would rather not sit at #6 for anybody besides a QB. I'd be all for moving back if the deal is the right one. Moving back just to do it is not a good move. Dropping back to #11 with the Vikings basically takes us out of competition for the top WRs which I would not want to do. Now if MHJ and Nabers are gone and they think the next 3 WRs are pretty equal to each other then by all means drop back. If they think Odunze is in the same ballpark as MHJ then you take that guy and never look back.
I have images of losing out on Devonta Smith at 10 and getting Kadarius Toney at 20 though and we know that didn't work out well lol. All depends on their board and how players are graded.
for the entire board, we don’t need it spelled out every post “don’t just draft a QB to draft a QB” and “don’t move back just to move back”. Without clarifying non-stop, it should be a given. At #6 overall with many teams without a QB, it shouldn’t be too difficult.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 25, 2024 9:42:52 GMT -5
Heck yeah, I agree with that. But then again we don't NEED to go any specific position at #6. I mean David Diehl was a 5th round pick. Strahan, Tuck and Osi were 2nd and 3rd round picks. Bottom line is every roster is different and there are good players found all over the draft.
However. We will only go WR if they want Jones still. So let’s assume that's true (for sake of this discussion). Our clear #1 need is a WR1 and it's not even close. The top 3 WRs are absolute studs in this draft. We just lost 30% of our offense (Barkley) and need it replaced. It won't happen in free agency, like when we lost Tiki and replaced him with Plax. The HC/GM need to generate an offense and it's a risk hoping to land a later round stud WR. So no we don't NEED to go WR in round 1...but this year we absolutely should.
there are quite a few receivers in this draft. A Corley could me more productive on many teams than Nabers would be on the Giants. I’m sticking with QB at #6 or trade back. This is the best WR draft I've ever seen, but it all comes down to their grades. Odunze seems to be the key. Some have him right there with MHJ and Nabers. Others I've seen him listed with Thomas, Coleman and that next tier. Will be interesting to see what Schoen thinks.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 25, 2024 9:45:31 GMT -5
for the entire board, we don’t need it spelled out every post “don’t just draft a QB to draft a QB” and “don’t move back just to move back”. Without clarifying non-stop, it should be a given. At #6 overall with many teams without a QB, it shouldn’t be too difficult. It should be said because I'd love to trade back but what that looks like to me and to you are probably different, which is why I said other words in my post lol.
I'm not talking about being ripped off, which obviously I hope none of us what; but its about where you trade back too.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 25, 2024 9:47:10 GMT -5
I don't think going WR at 6 really has anything to do with Jones staying or leaving tbh. We need weapons / talent regardless... Now to you and Rangers point about WRs being available later / FA etc...like you said same for any position...and that includes QBs as well...I understand the numbers aspect as well...there's obviously more WRs etc but that just makes it even harder to land a quality QB so it's gotta be a hit if we go QB at 6 or we're just becoming the jets and taking a random chance every couple of years hoping we hit n a QB (which btw most teams that do this, it happens because they keep ignoring weapons / other parts of the team giving the QB little chance to succeed anyway) What I said about Jones was because if they want to move on then QB is the biggest need, if they don't want to move on then WR is the biggest need. They should not draft a QB if they want to stick with Jones lol.
Yes I agree we need weapons no matter what.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 25, 2024 9:53:37 GMT -5
there are quite a few receivers in this draft. A Corley could me more productive on many teams than Nabers would be on the Giants. I’m sticking with QB at #6 or trade back. This is the best WR draft I've ever seen, but it all comes down to their grades. Odunze seems to be the key. Some have him right there with MHJ and Nabers. Others I've seen him listed with Thomas, Coleman and that next tier. Will be interesting to see what Schoen thinks. It is a shame we aren’t like the Chargers and lost a legit QB and now can land a stud. We’re in that QB hell with the same questions
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